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[phil_t98]

Point?

That you know notbing

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

That you know nothing

Do you know the color of Kojima's poop?

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

So you know what cash they have? Yes or no?

His net worth is in the tens of millions. He would not be able to finance a AAA game without equity or debt

 

[MasterCornholio]

Yep. He likes to pee from his butt hole. It's a "mess"

Hopefully not on you.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Hopefully not on you.

I wish.

 

[Muddy]

Activision and Bungie in that instance are both 3rd party studios, Bungie is a 3rd party studio making a 3rd party IP owned by Activision.

Well Activision is a 3rd party to others but Bungie became a second party to them under the deal.

Infinity Ward and Treyarch are first party studios of Activision but third party for Sony/Microsoft/Nintendo.

All about perspective.

 

[Barakov]

.

 

[Tripolygon]

The IP ownership is unrelated to decide if a game it's 1st, 2nd or 3rd party. 1st party games are the ones published by the platform holder of that platform. The 3rd party games are the ones published by someone who isn't the platform holder.

IP ownership is what determines if a game is a 1st or 3rd party, who developed it can be either 1st or 3rd party. Not who specifically published it. Here is an example

Demon's Souls

a. 1st party Sony IP
b. 3rd party developed by From Soft
c. 1st party published in Japan by Sony
d. 3rd party published in US by Atlus
e. 3rd party published in EU by Namco

Call of Duty Black ops 3

a. 3rd party Activision IP
b. 3rd party developed by Activision Studio
c. 3rd party published by Activision in US and EU
d. 1st party published by Sony in Japan
e. 1st party published by Microsoft in Japan

2nd party games are the ones published by the platform holder (so 2nd party games are also 1st party games) but developed by a 3rd party studio. There are people at Sony with "Head of global second party games" on their job title:

Seems like you like to argue for argument's sake. There is no title such as "Head of global second party games" at Sony. That is a title Gio Corsi added to his LinkedIn profile. Find any other instance of that title being used by anyone at Sony, I'll wait. Colloquially the industry does sometimes refer to those games as 2nd party but in reality and business-wise they are just 1st party games.

From Soft is a 3rd party studio, they also make 1st party IPs

Demons Souls, Bloodborne, Derecine = 1st Party

Dark Souls, Sekiro, Elding Ring = 3rd Party

 

[phil_t98]

His net worth is in the tens of millions. He would not be able to finance a AAA game without equity or debt

What's his company net worth? What profits did they make from the last game?

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

What's his company net worth? What profits did they make from the last game?

Kojima Production is his company. That factors into his net worth.

He cannot afford to make AAA games.

 

[El Pistolero]

Unless he gests sick, i don't see a reason for Kojima to truly retire. Is not like he is just working for a company, it's his company and is able to work in whatever interests him.

Possibly, or he might retire from being at the helm of games to supervise the flow of all the activities: Games, movies, animes...
To be honest, I must be the only one wishing for Koji Pro to join the WWS despite Kojima being in charge, and not because of it. I value his team more than I do his mumbo-jumbo filled scripts...He should, at least, delegate the writing process to somebody else...But he won't do it, so fuck it!

 

[Windle Poons]

And suddenly everything was okay in the world.

 

[3liteDragon]

Sony bought 100% of Bungie stocks, meaning now Sony owns Bungie and their current and future IPs. And as part of Sony, any future game published or developed by Bungie will be a game published or developed by Sony.

No, that's not how it works. Bungie's games don't have the kind of oversight that the core first-party studios do under Hermen Hulst (Bethesda under XGS is another example, it's pretty much the same as Bungie's), Sony fully owns them but also came to an agreement & promised them that Bungie will have FULL & FINAL creative authority with their games & also maintain their independent self-publishing status (for how long, who knows what was on that contract) in order to get them to sign on to the deal.

Any Bungie/Bethesda published game is just that, published by them, the owner of the company doesn't get publishing credit just because they own them if the developer still has publishing rights to their IPs after the acquisition, meaning they get to also dictate which platforms it goes on. If Sony wants to make a future Bungie title a timed console exclusive, they would have to deal with them as they would with ANY OTHER third-party studio because that studio (Bungie, Bethesda) owns the publishing rights to their games (as both parties agreed on that), not Sony even if they fully own them.

 

[Calverz]

Can people show me where/when bluepoint games explicitly said they would "continue to remain independent" rather than just say they were independent.

Thank you

 

[FrankWza]

.

"And will continue to be an independent studio"

Can people show me where/when bluepoint games explicitly said they would "continue to remain independent" rather than just say they were independent.

Thank you

 

[Calverz]

People keep using bluepoint example. Can YOU show me when they said they would continue to remain independent before the big reveal?

 

[Airbus Jr]

.

I dont know whats happened but seems to me something is brewing up there between kojima and sony behind the scene

 

[Unknown?]

So did Bluepoint.

 

[BadBurger]

Can't constrain Hideo. Can't see or be him.

 

[Papacheeks]

Thank you Calverz for saving everyone's disappointment.

Nice to know we lost Bryank75 for people trying to moderate peoples speculations.

Thank you

 

[Neander]

Bluepoint Stresses It's Fully Independent as Sony Acquisition Speculation Swirls

Developer updates profile in response to rumours

www.pushsquare.com

There's a big difference in stating that you're "Fully independent" (present tense) and stating that you'll "Continue to be an independent studio".

 

[yurinka]

IP ownership is what determines if a game is a 1st or 3rd party, who developed it can be either 1st or 3rd party. Not who specifically published it. Here is an example

Demon's Souls

a. 1st party Sony IP
b. 3rd party developed by From Soft
c. 1st party published in Japan by Sony
d. 3rd party published in US by Atlus
e. 3rd party published in EU by Namco

Call of Duty Black ops 3

a. 3rd party Activision IP
b. 3rd party developed by Activision Studio
c. 3rd party published by Activision in US and EU
d. 1st party published by Sony in Japan
e. 1st party published by Microsoft in Japan

Seems you don't read my previous posts, I already explained cases like these ones.

Demon's Souls is a second party game (so also a first party game) because it's a game published by a platform holder and developed by a studio they don't own. For Sony it was a Japan only game, but later they allowed other publishers to bring it to the west instead of publishing it themselves there because they thought it was a niche game that was only going to appeal Japanese gamers. But the original project itself is a 2nd party game.

CoD BO 3 is a 3rd party game because it's a game published by a company not owned by a platform holder. And as I mentioned before, sometimes these 3rd party games get publisher or distributed by the platform holder in one or a few countries but it's a exception and doesn't make the games 1st or 2nd party.

Seems like you like to argue for argument's sake. There is no title such as "Head of global second party games" at Sony. That is a title Gio Corsi added to his LinkedIn profile. Find any other instance of that title being used by anyone at Sony, I'll wait. Colloquially the industry does sometimes refer to those games as 2nd party but in reality and business-wise they are just 1st party games.


From Soft is a 3rd party studio, they also make 1st party IPs

Demons Souls, Bloodborne, Derecine = 1st Party

Dark Souls, Sekiro, Elding Ring = 3rd Party

It wasn't a title he added to LinkedIn, it was the formal name of his job postiion at Sony. Use Google to find many articles or websites using his job title while weren't talking about his LinkedIn:
https://www.google.com/search?q="Head+of+global+second+party+games"

And yes, games published by the platform holder are 1st party, the ones not published by the platform holder are 3rd party. IPs and studios owned by the platform holder are first party, the ones not owned by thtem are second party. But there are also tthe 2nd party games, that are the 1s party games developed by 3rd party studios.

No, that's not how it works. Bungie's games don't have the kind of oversight that the core first-party studios do under Hermen Hulst (Bethesda under XGS is another example, it's pretty much the same as Bungie's), Sony fully owns them but also came to an agreement & promised them that Bungie will have FULL & FINAL creative authority with their games & also maintain their independent self-publishing status (for how long, who knows what was on that contract) in order to get them to sign on to the deal.

Any Bungie/Bethesda published game is just that, published by them, the owner of the company doesn't get publishing credit just because they own them if the developer still has publishing rights to their IPs after the acquisition, meaning they get to also dictate which platforms it goes on. If Sony wants to make a future Bungie title a timed console exclusive, they would have to deal with them as they would with ANY OTHER third-party studio because that studio (Bungie, Bethesda) owns the publishing rights to their games (as both parties agreed on that), not Sony even if they fully own them.

Yes, it's how it works. Sony now owns and controls Bungie and this why they paid them $3.6B to get 100% of their shares. When you get 100% of the shares of a company you own and control it. Bungie was independent until SIE bought it.

SIE's plan for Bungie is to let them continue being a separate publisher instead of putting them under PS Studios, even if now like PS Studios will be a game publisher under SIE, and like PS Studios teams will have creative freedom. Unlike PS Studios, Bungie will release their future games and dlcs multiplatform including in rival consoles. So SIE's current plan for them is to allow them "operate independently".

Ryan said they wanted to reach players who are outside PlayStation. But instead of making their own PS Studios full multiplatform, they'll keep them exclusive and seems that starting with Bungie they will have other multiplatform publishers that will be under SIE but not under the PS Studios publishing label.

Having 2 publishing labels it's easier to understand: Bungie games will be multiplatform including rival consoles since day one, and PS Studios games instead will be PS exclusive with some old games being ported from time to time to PC.

The teams who make 1st and 2nd party games at PS Studios always shared knowledge, technology or data with each other to learn from each other and grow. Now -even if will be under SIE but not under PS Studios- Bungie joined them to share and learn stuff, and Sony was particularly interested on their knowledge regarding MP and GaaS titles. Even if they didn't mentioned it, I think Bungie are also top tier masters regarding IP creation (made Halo and Destiny) and FPS games so they can help other PS Studios teams to improve in these areas.

This is their plan for now, which is what they will do for the following years. I expect them to be successful, that Bungie will make a lot of money with upcoming Destiny 2 stuff, their new IPs they'll publish in the next few years and with the movies and tv show they'll do with Sony. And I also think this Bungie knowledge, tools and data will help Sony to improve the MP/GaaS titles developed by other teams, so indirectly will help Sony to earn more money. And if it works well as I think, I think Sony won't change their plans for Bungie and will continue in this way.

I think it's very, very unlikely, but there's the possibility that several years from now Bungie can turn into a mess, their new IPs may fail hard in reviews and sales, and to be released with too big delays. Or who knows, maybe some Bungie boss is secretly the new evil Hitler and a lot of top Bungie talent leaves. In this case or in other one where SIE wouldn't be happy with Bungie's results, or simply because he's bored in a random Tuesday, Jim Ryan as their boss and owner may decide to change his plans for Bungie, rename the studio to Giebumg, to put it under PS Studios, to shut down the servers of all their active games, to cancel their movies and tv show plans and to make them work only on a PS Vita exclusive Knack VR metaverse full of NFTs.

Or to force them to change their direction in any way he desires that he thinks it's more positive for SIE. As their boss and owner, he will be able even shut down Bungie or sell it. But as I mentioned, I think won't happen and they will continue having Bungie as a full multiplatform publisher separated from PS Studios but inside SIE. I think that if Bungie does a exclusive game will be a mobile specific game, but that's all. Outside that, I think that since SIE owns them I think that if they do anything exclusive would be for Sony, but I bet it only would be something very minor like console bundles, demos or betas or exclusivity for inclusion on game subscriptions. But again, I think their focus will be full multiplatform.

Regarging the part of my post that you highlighted in bold, Bungie is now fully owned by Sony (specifically, SIE). Which means that any game published by Bungie is published by Sony and that any game developed by Bungie is developed by Sony. Bungie is now a PlayStation 1st party company that makes multiplatform games. In the same way that Mojang, Bethesda and Activision Blizzard are Xbox 1st party companies that make multiplatform games.

 

[Tiago Rodrigues]

something is brewing up

Watching this video just made me realize how marketing at PlayStation just fell off a cliff.

Now we'd only get a damn blog post, lmao

 

[VeganElduderino]

Bluepoint denied it too !

 

[Kerotan]

Too bad for Sony then, would've been a great acquisition. Not that many independent AAA studios out there worth acquiring anymore.

I'm ready for another Kojima game hype cycle (unless the cloud game rumor is correct, then I'm out), it's taking way to long.

What happens when he retires? Plus Sony if they really want kojima can continue to publish his games on pc pat for as long as they what for far less.

 

[Fuz]

So, this is a confirmation they're gonna being bought.

BUT they will retain their indipendence... at least for a while.


I'm out of the Kojima loop, did I miss some news and was this public domain already?

 

[Represent.]

dont buy that. they're being bought.

you dont just randomly add a new game to a marketing image like that, imo

 

[Frank Horrigan]

His studio will remain independent until Wednesday, when it's bought by Sega.

 

[Ghost of Caelid]

I hope tencent buys them just to watch the world burn. frenzied flame ending for KP.

 

[nominedomine]

What happens when he retires? Plus Sony if they really want kojima can continue to publish his games on pc pat for as long as they what for far less.

Same thing that happens when any studio head retires, Kojima isn't making game by himself, he's surrounded by talented people. Might be even good for the studio to have more stability before he decided to do so.

But it doesn't look like he wasn't to be acquired anytime soon, so it doesn't matter I guess.

 

[ethomaz]

Can people show me where/when bluepoint games explicitly said they would "continue to remain independent" rather than just say they were independent.

Thank you

I posted it early in the thread.
When the picture showed up with them they changed the Twitter profile to says they were independent.

 

[3liteDragon]

Seems you don't read my previous posts, I already explained cases like these ones.

Demon's Souls is a second party game (so also a first party game) because it's a game published by a platform holder and developed by a studio they don't own. For Sony it was a Japan only game, but later they allowed other publishers to bring it to the west instead of publishing it themselves there because they thought it was a niche game that was only going to appeal Japanese gamers. But the original project itself is a 2nd party game.

CoD BO 3 is a 3rd party game because it's a game published by a company not owned by a platform holder. And as I mentioned before, sometimes these 3rd party games get publisher or distributed by the platform holder in one or a few countries but it's a exception and doesn't make the games 1st or 2nd party.



It wasn't a title he added to LinkedIn, it was the formal name of his job postiion at Sony. Use Google to find many articles or websites using his job title while weren't talking about his LinkedIn:
https://www.google.com/search?q="Head+of+global+second+party+games"

And yes, games published by the platform holder are 1st party, the ones not published by the platform holder are 3rd party. IPs and studios owned by the platform holder are first party, the ones not owned by thtem are second party. But there are also tthe 2nd party games, that are the 1s party games developed by 3rd party studios.





Yes, it's how it works. Sony now owns and controls Bungie and this why they paid them $3.6B to get 100% of their shares. When you get 100% of the shares of a company you own and control it. Bungie was independent until SIE bought it.

SIE's plan for Bungie is to let them continue being a separate publisher instead of putting them under PS Studios, even if now like PS Studios will be a game publisher under SIE, and like PS Studios teams will have creative freedom. Unlike PS Studios, Bungie will release their future games and dlcs multiplatform including in rival consoles. So SIE's current plan for them is to allow them "operate independently".

Ryan said they wanted to reach players who are outside PlayStation. But instead of making their own PS Studios full multiplatform, they'll keep them exclusive and seems that starting with Bungie they will have other multiplatform publishers that will be under SIE but not under the PS Studios publishing label.

Having 2 publishing labels it's easier to understand: Bungie games will be multiplatform including rival consoles since day one, and PS Studios games instead will be PS exclusive with some old games being ported from time to time to PC.

The teams who make 1st and 2nd party games at PS Studios always shared knowledge, technology or data with each other to learn from each other and grow. Now -even if will be under SIE but not under PS Studios- Bungie joined them to share and learn stuff, and Sony was particularly interested on their knowledge regarding MP and GaaS titles. Even if they didn't mentioned it, I think Bungie are also top tier masters regarding IP creation (made Halo and Destiny) and FPS games so they can help other PS Studios teams to improve in these areas.

This is their plan for now, which is what they will do for the following years. I expect them to be successful, that Bungie will make a lot of money with upcoming Destiny 2 stuff, their new IPs they'll publish in the next few years and with the movies and tv show they'll do with Sony. And I also think this Bungie knowledge, tools and data will help Sony to improve the MP/GaaS titles developed by other teams, so indirectly will help Sony to earn more money. And if it works well as I think, I think Sony won't change their plans for Bungie and will continue in this way.

I think it's very, very unlikely, but there's the possibility that several years from now Bungie can turn into a mess, their new IPs may fail hard in reviews and sales, and to be released with too big delays. Or who knows, maybe some Bungie boss is secretly the new evil Hitler and a lot of top Bungie talent leaves. In this case or in other one where SIE wouldn't be happy with Bungie's results, or simply because he's bored in a random Tuesday, Jim Ryan as their boss and owner may decide to change his plans for Bungie, rename the studio to Giebumg, to put it under PS Studios, to shut down the servers of all their active games, to cancel their movies and tv show plans and to make them work only on a PS Vita exclusive Knack VR metaverse full of NFTs.

Or to force them to change their direction in any way he desires that he thinks it's more positive for SIE. As their boss and owner, he will be able even shut down Bungie or sell it. But as I mentioned, I think won't happen and they will continue having Bungie as a full multiplatform publisher separated from PS Studios but inside SIE. I think that if Bungie does a exclusive game will be a mobile specific game, but that's all. Outside that, I think that since SIE owns them I think that if they do anything exclusive would be for Sony, but I bet it only would be something very minor like console bundles, demos or betas or exclusivity for inclusion on game subscriptions. But again, I think their focus will be full multiplatform.

Regarging the part of my post that you highlighted in bold, Bungie is now fully owned by Sony (specifically, SIE). Which means that any game published by Bungie is published by Sony and that any game developed by Bungie is developed by Sony. Bungie is now a PlayStation 1st party company that makes multiplatform games. In the same way that Mojang, Bethesda and Activision Blizzard are Xbox 1st party companies that make multiplatform games.

Yea, we're just gonna agree-to-disagree on this.

 

[Craig of War]

I hope tencent buys them just to watch the world burn. frenzied flame ending for KP.

 

[Kiddo Cabbusses]

It should have been obvious in retrospect that Kojima has no intention of letting himself be under another company's employ, considering what happened during his final years at Konami. No matter how sweet the deal may look at the start, there is always that risk of a company deciding to turn toxic on him.

 

[Ghost of Caelid]

 

[Craig of War]

On a serious note though if Sony not get Kojima than i would rather MS or even Nintendo buy Kojima before Tencent
as Tencent is literally the worst possible outcome fuck them

 

[adamsapple]

Why does

I hope tencent buys them just to watch the world burn. frenzied flame ending for KP.

What about Embarcer Group ?

 

[bushwookie]

Yea, we're just gonna agree-to-disagree on this.

It's really the only way out with him. He'll repeat the wrong info ad nauseam to wear you down.

I get peopke being confident in their assertions, but he's one of those rare birds that literally lacks the ability to admit when he's wrong. You'd make far more progress arguing with a child.

 

[remember_spinal]

i think the idea of buying well known devs/publishers is overrated.

Theres so many new AAA gaming studios being created right now by veterans in the industry and they all have access to UE5 that it's almost a guarantee that the next big game is going to be a new IP from a new studio.

A lot of the old masters are starting to fizzle out or struggle for relevancy. I have more confidence in a studio like Housemarque that is bucking conventions and getting bigger budgets than I am a company like square enix or ubisoft doing anything ground breaking this gen.

Growing smaller studios into bigger studios with new ideas and fresh talent feels like a better strategy to me than just buying big brand name studios

 

[Corndog]

You can use it as much as you want. That "phenomenon" is called a third party vendor. That's it.

Is this really worth arguing about? It's off topic anyway.

 

[Corndog]

Kojima Production is his company. That factors into his net worth.

He cannot afford to make AAA games.

What are you basing this on? Most developers have a publisher that can help finance development anyway.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

i think the idea of buying well known devs/publishers is overrated.

Overrated no. Maybe misguided.

Theres so many new AAA gaming studios being created right now by veterans in the industry and they all have access to UE5 that it's almost a guarantee that the next big game is going to be a new IP from a new studio

You don't need to be AAA to be the next big game (even if is fast).

A lot of the old masters are starting to fizzle out or struggle for relevancy. I have more confidence in a studio like Housemarque that is bucking conventions and getting bigger budgets than I am a company like square enix or ubisoft doing anything ground breaking this gen.

Batman Quote* you know which one.

The bigger you are the most risk-averse.

Growing smaller studios into bigger studios with new ideas and fresh talent feels like a better strategy to me than just buying big brand name studios

Cuz takes a long ass time to do so. Yes, is the smarter/cheaper strategy. But there is not enough talent. (At the level required for AAA production)

 

[Ghost of Caelid]

On a serious note though if Sony not get Kojima than i would rather MS or even Nintendo buy Kojima before Tencent
as Tencent is literally the worst possible outcome fuck them

For the sake of artistic integrity I hope tencent stays as far away from them as possible. I want them to remain independent tho.

 

[Shubh_C63]

Kojima Production is his company. That factors into his net worth.

He cannot afford to make AAA games.

Probably but he can easily pair up with any publisher.
I mean if Platinum Games as a company is worth less or about same as Kojipro, and they keep getting publishers to finance on all their projects.

Koji can sleep with Phil for year or two, no biggy.

 

[Keihart]

Watching this video just made me realize how marketing at PlayStation just fell off a cliff.

Now we'd only get a damn blog post, lmao

Even the PSblog used to be way bigger during the PS3 era.
It is what it is tho, PS is aiming wider now.

 

[remember_spinal]

Watching this video just made me realize how marketing at PlayStation just fell off a cliff.

Now we'd only get a damn blog post, lmao

this was good

 

[Calverz]

I posted it early in the thread.
When the picture showed up with them they changed the Twitter profile to says they were independent.

It said they were independent. It didn't say they would continue to remain independent. There is a big difference here.

 

[Orta]

Last decent thing he done was MGS3. Since that he's nothing but a bullshit merchant and fanboy wank fantasy.

 

[Airbus Jr]

Last decent thing he done was MGS3. Since that he's nothing but a bullshit merchant and fanboy wank fantasy.

Dont think die hard xboxers opinion like you matters here

MGS 4+ 5 + death stranding just as great

 

[Tripolygon]

Seems you don't read my previous posts, I already explained cases like these ones.

Demon's Souls is a second party game (so also a first party game) because it's a game published by a platform holder and developed by a studio they don't own. For Sony it was a Japan only game, but later they allowed other publishers to bring it to the west instead of publishing it themselves there because they thought it was a niche game that was only going to appeal Japanese gamers. But the original project itself is a 2nd party game.

WTF are you talking about? Demon's Souls is a first-party IP. Below is who trademarked and owns the IP. 2nd party does not exist business-wise in terms of IP ownership, it is a made-up term used by games media to describe 3rd party studios that create 1st-party IPs. But those studios are literally 3rd party studios.

It wasn't a title he added to LinkedIn, it was the formal name of his job postiion at Sony. Use Google to find many articles or websites using his job title while weren't talking about his LinkedIn:
https://www.google.com/search?q="Head+of+global+second+party+games"

Find any instance where that title is used by anyone other than Gio Corsi. It does not exist as a title at Sony. The only title that exists is 3rd party related titles. Gio Corsi is the only one that made up that title and those google searches are all related to Gio Corsi when he left Sony and updated his LinkedIn page.