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[Musashi Wins!]

I'm still hard pressed to see how he's underrated. MGS3 is great, though.

Boktai and ZOE? A whole lot less so. You'd think someone who's MGS series is all about the small details and layers of depth would make more interesting games in other series.

 

[MarkRyan]

Boktai and ZOE? A whole lot less so. You'd think someone who's MGS series is all about the small details and layers of depth would make more interesting games in other series.

Considering both Boktai and ZOE2 aren't lacking in any respect, I don't quite get your point.

 

[shantyman]

Overrated to me. Most of the additions mentioned in the first post are just a bunch of qwirky ideas. Cool when playing around, but nothing too exciting. Cure system/survival viewer were very unnecessary, and actually made things more tedious as you hop in and out of that menu constantly when injured. Camo was so obvious and simple to use that it actually becomes a drag to use it. Obviously if I'm sneaking around at night I should use black camo, do I really have to go into a menu to do this? Stalking just made it easier to sneak if you suck using analogue sticks, just like the crouch pose in Splinter Cell. The food idea seems important at first, but it really isn't. Just introduces a collection idea like the dog tags for replay value.

Not to say MG3 was bad or anything. The forest setting and elimination of radar changed things up nicely. But the rest is just a bunch of little ideas, some work and some don't. Unfortunately with a camera system that is hopefully never ever seen again in a MGS title

I don't agree with your assertions, but of course to each his own. I like that you responded to my post, seems most on here reacted to my typoed and inflammatory subject.

 

[Nervous Hamster]

I think he's overrated. The thing is, he's the lead designer, and without a good talented team, he wont be doing miracles., good story or not. I feel that a lot of so called innovations by big console developpers are pretty much gimmicks recently, Shiggy included. I really doubt that Shiggy stays late at the office to go thru pages of debug data.

Having to eat in a videogame so you dont lose health? Sorry, I dont think it adds fun to my gameplay experience at all. I just dont care, I see it a very Sims-ish idea. I rented MG3 a few days ago for a week, and well, I was not impressed at all by what i've seen. Some neat scenes from a video-game perspective, but the camera was absolute fucking crap. I really dont care if the main developper has trouble coping with different camera views, I pay for the game, and I want something decent.

The whole stealth thing in the Metal Gear games is terrible, and its no contest for the Hitman series, the Thief games or Splinter Cell. In the splinter cell games, it really felt like you had to sneak, i felt it was much more realistic.

The story in Metal Gear has some interesting roots in reality, but the relationships between the characters are so fucking intolerable. In the MG3 when you start talking to the Boss, and Snake nearly starts crying and that whole "i taught you everything i knew"."WHY DID YOU ABANDON MEEEEE" "I HAD BECAUSE I'M A SOLDIER!!!", i completly skipped thru that saturday morning FoxBox cartoon trash. It's not interesting at all, and It's so over the fucking top that it feels like a parody. Everything someone has some sort of bad trip about "what being a soldier is about" I just suddenly fast forward. I have no interests in this tripe at all and its preventing me to playing. Put character developpement if its actually good, but dont bother me with anime-grade trash.

Kojima makes some interesting stories, but I think he should really drop the whole metal gear franchise and start working on something new, because he milked it to death

Or just make Snatcher II

Go. Play. PonG.

 

[Stinkles]

I fail to see how being second only to Miyamoto in terms of name recognition makes him underrated.

 

[shantyman]

I fail to see how being second only to Miyamoto in terms of name recognition makes him underrated.

Because if you read my post, I said everyone talks about his involvement with cinematics, story, etc. and not gameplay.

 

[Dr_Cogent]

I think Kojima is overrated - not underrated.

 

[Pack of Wild Rats]

Go. Play. PonG.

I fail to see why this was bumped only to say that.

 

[TheJollyCorner]

Kojima gets plenty of respect... especially around here.

Just look at the "OMFG MGS4 @ TGS TO OWN THEM ALL *spooge spooge*" comments in every TGS/PS3vs.360/next gen power threads all over this forum.

edit: shit... I didn't even realize this thread was from December....@_@

 

[BuddyC]

I fail to see why this was bumped only to say that.

Neither do I.

 

[Pimpbaa]

I think Kojima is overrated - not underrated.

I agree. He doesn't make games, he makes cutscenes with short gameplay segments. Ok I exaggerating a bit, but I think cutscenes are a crutch to make average games seem better.

 

[Dr_Cogent]

I agree. He doesn't make games, he makes cutscenes with short gameplay segments. Ok I exaggerating a bit, but I think cutscenes are a crutch to make average games seem better.

I'm in total agreement on that one.

MGS2 was the only MGS game I played, but dear lord, the cutscenes and convoluted story maddened me. When I was done with it I was seriously irritated and pissy. That shouldn't happen with a game.

 

[Warm Machine]

Because if you read my post, I said everyone talks about his involvement with cinematics, story, etc. and not gameplay.

As long as Snake is controlled with a very robotic and linear move set and the controls remain as horrendously clumsy as they always are with MGS games he won't be associated with good gameplay.

 

[IJoel]

Kojima underrated? Absolutely not. If anything he's a bit overrated. I think he's an incredible storyteller and great at directing cinematics. I'm not sure he deserves a lot of the praise he gets for the actual gameplay mechanics (mainly because I don't see them being that great.) Though I have to applaud the controllable camera in Subsistence as this was my biggest pet peeve of the MGS series.

 

[Rorschach]

EA's NHL series outsells Visual Concept's NHL2K series every single year, yet the 2K series always receives higher review scores and anyone who's played both and knows a thing about hockey can see which game is superior.

I've traveled to 2004 to tell you that you are wrong about those sales figures.

 

[shantyman]

Neither do I.

I made the mistake of referencing it in another thread. Sorry.

 

[BuddyC]

I made the mistake of referencing it in another thread. Sorry.

Ah, that explains it. Thanks.

 

[AltogetherAndrews]

Kojima is crap, as are his "games". Put together some second rate cinema, with fittingly crappy stories (convoluted just enough to shield "gamers" from the actual dumbassity of said stories), some micromanagement garbage, and you have a Metal Gear Solid game. I get more gameplay out of Nintendogs than I get out of the MGS poo.

 

[BuddyC]

Kojima is crap, as are his "games". Crappy cinema, with a fittingly crappy stories (convoluted just enough to shield "gamers" from the actual dumbassity of said stories), some micromanagement garbage, and you have MGS3. I get more gameplay out of Nintendogs than I get out of the MGS shit.

Seems you never touched Zone of the Enders 2. Now that's a game.

 

[AltogetherAndrews]

Seems you never touched Zone of the Enders 2. Now that's a game.

Could be. I had half a mind of picking ZOE2 up the other week, but I figured I'd just end up getting angry.

I agree. He doesn't make games, he makes cutscenes with short gameplay segments. Ok I exaggerating a bit, but I think cutscenes are a crutch to make average games seem better.

Well, there's also micromanagement.

 

[demon]

I've found Kojima's storylines to be convoluted and ridiculous, and while I never played MGS3, MGS2's "stealth gameplay" was a joke. He's a master at making his games cinematic and engrossing, and that's the only reason I can figure people are so forgiving of the games' blatant gameplay problems. But I dunno, maybe MGS3's gameplay is tons better than MGS2.

I only played the first Splinter Cell, and while that game pissed me off in more ways than one (structure was too linear, controls didn't feel natural, sometimes took way too many shots to kill an enemy), I sure had a lot more fun with it, and it had a much, much better gameplay foundation than MGS*.

Also, bringing sales numbers into an argument about which game is better is fucking retarded.

 

[TheJollyCorner]

I've found Kojima's storylines to be convoluted and ridiculous, and while I never played MGS3,

I stopped reading here.

Please, do yourself a favor... play MGS3... if only for the character of The Boss, who is, IMO, one of the most fascinating characters to grace a console video game IMO.

 

[mattiewheels]

Well, most KCEJ games that Kojima isn't involved in are mediocre to crap, so I guess he does deserve a lot of credit for MGS, Boktai and ZOE.

In a perfect world, they'd be making a sequel of some kind to this.

MGS3 was pretty damn wonderful, too.

 

[Pimpbaa]

I stopped reading here.

Please, do yourself a favor... play MGS3... if only for the character of The Boss, who is, IMO, one of the most fascinating characters to grace a console video game IMO.

Whats the point of him playing if he doesn't like the gameplay? If you are playing for the story, then go rent a friggin movie.

 

[etiolate]

Kojima is a failed movie director punishing the game market and using to the fanbase's worshiping mentality. The only redeeming factor he has is his Joy Division love.

 

[TheJollyCorner]

Whats the point of him playing if he doesn't like the gameplay? If you are playing for the story, then go rent a friggin movie.

show me what isle the Snake Eater two disk DVD is in @ Blockbuster and I'll take you up on that, charlie.

Some games are worth actually working through the gameplay. MGS3 is one of them.

 

[Red Blaster]

Kojima is a failed movie director punishing the game market and using to the fanbase's worshiping mentality. The only redeeming factor he has is his Joy Division love.

Yeah you probably have shit taste in music. Dumb.

 

[Pimpbaa]

show me what isle the Snake Eater two disk DVD is in @ Blockbuster and I'll take you up on that, charlie.

No snake eater, but there are plenty of movies with infinitly better stories.

Some games are worth actually working through the gameplay. MGS3 is one of them.

Working through the gameplay? The gameplay should be fun and not work. It shouldn't be just a mechanism to reach the next cutscene.

 

[Kabuki Waq]

No snake eater, but there are plenty of movies with infinitly better stories.

There are plenty of low budget straight to video Paul Anderson style crap movies with better scripts thats for sure.



Yea i dont like Games to be like WORK.

 

[TheJollyCorner]

Working through the gameplay? The gameplay should be fun and not work. It shouldn't be just a mechanism to reach the next cutscene.

MGS3 was loads of fun to me... but someone bitching about the gameplay is someone that will naturally have to work through it. If someone is going to be weaksauce, play twenty minutes of a game, decide the gameplay is 'broken', throw the controller down, and decide the game sucks, that's their business. As I said, some games are worth working through to find the efficient ways to play it.
RE1 for PS1 was one of those games for me. At first the game's controls frustrated the ever-loving shit out of me, but I pushed through, got the hang of it, and it ended up being a fantastic experience.

...I don't know why I'm trying to add logic to this.

 

[Red Blaster]

I love Kojima-esque political intrigue.


Haters:

 

[Mrbob]

This thread is old.

Looks like I was right about MGS3 beating Splinter Cell sales though.

KOJIMA CHAMPION.

 

[Red Blaster]

Well duh, no one cares about George Clooney's Adventures In Geriatria anymore, even with the somewhat interesting multiplayer.

 

[DCharlie]

i still need to go back and actually finish MGS3 as promised.

 

[demon]

MGS3 was loads of fun to me... but someone bitching about the gameplay is someone that will naturally have to work through it. If someone is going to be weaksauce, play twenty minutes of a game, decide the gameplay is 'broken', throw the controller down, and decide the game sucks, that's their business. As I said, some games are worth working through to find the efficient ways to play it.
RE1 for PS1 was one of those games for me. At first the game's controls frustrated the ever-loving shit out of me, but I pushed through, got the hang of it, and it ended up being a fantastic experience.

...I don't know why I'm trying to add logic to this.

How about next time not making baseless assumptions about my experience with a game, dumbass. I played a hell of a lot more than 20 minutes of MGS2, and finished MGS, and I didn't need any more time to decide that the gameplay was shit. It was quite a while ago and I've since tried to block it from my memory, but I do remember crappy, floaty controls, shitty camera angles, ridiculous AI, incredibly weak "stealth" elements that have and had already been bested by other games (all Western), and said shitty gameplay interrupted far too often with video clips to further an absurd, convoluted storyline. I wasn't "weaksauce" with MGS2, I was fed up with it. I've played and enjoyed far more challenging games, and there's a difference between a challenge and a chore. MGS2 was the latter.

I stopped reading here.

Please, do yourself a favor... play MGS3... if only for the character of The Boss, who is, IMO, one of the most fascinating characters to grace a console video game IMO.

Unless MGS3's gameplay mechanics are improved over MGS2's, then no thanks, that wouldn't be much of a favor.

 

[J2 Cool]

I'm in total agreement on that one.

MGS2 was the only MGS game I played, but dear lord, the cutscenes and convoluted story maddened me. When I was done with it I was seriously irritated and pissy. That shouldn't happen with a game.

You need to play MGS3. Anyway, I'm in complete agreement that he's underrated. Or at least overhated. There's no way you have that many hardcore fans if his success is just cheap tricks. The End fight alone should constitute some respect. And he always nails moments like that and manipulates the player like no other videogame director does today. He reminds me a lot of Quentin Tarantino in that aspect, only in a videogame aspect. He'd push it a lot more also if he wasn't so constricted. I remember hearing he wanted to make a game with only one life and no continues, saying it would be more intense than nearly any other game on the market. I thought about it and it really would be an insane experience.

He also through the Meryl frequency from MGS1 on the box, seeing if gamers were smart enough to look. That's what I did years and years back, after having thought I missed it. I'm sure some expert gamers had to freak out thinking how they could skip past something like that. The Psycho Mantis fight was another brilliant Kojima design. Having to switch controller ports to beat him and the way he read your memory card and vibrated the controller. Such a cool touch within a game. Meanwhile the game being as adaptable as it is, the way I first beat Mantis was with a grueling 20 minute fight after 15-20 tries. It was damn memorable though, both when I fought it and when I found out I went through it for nothing.

There's just so much Kojima in his games. Like the idea to hide Raiden in MGS2. That one didn't work exactly but I admire the ambition. Also the way MGS3 doesn't truly start and roll opening credits until after a few hours. Or starting the game believing your Raiden. There's just loads and loads of stuff no other game even attempts within his games. And I heard that MGS4 is going to change the style of the series completely. A ton of people complained about cutscenes and the way it's a crutch. Supposedly he's not going the 'Gameplay bit. Story. Gameplay bit. Story' route for the next game. I'm excited to see that and see what complaints people have after it. Not that MGS3 was overloaded with it. There was about an 8 hour stretch of great gameplay and boss fights where you had not one cutscene at all. I didn't even realize it as it was happening either. I just felt lost and isolated in the jungle and so it was completely in the context. He doesn't force anything, especially not cutscenes.

But I dunno, everyone's gotta have their haters I guess.

 

[Red Blaster]

i still need to go back and actually finish MGS3 as promised.

You never told us what that mindblowing thing about the MGS2 tanker scene.