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[mindatlarge]

Is it really piracy when there are Amiibo cards for Amiibos which haven't even been produced? It seems more like a hacking/Action Replay situation.

If you are downloading the needed files from the Internet, that a random person extracted from an Amiibo they bought so yourself and others can make bootlegs, you'd be hard pressed not to call this piracy. No matter your stance on how much Amiibo cost or your stance on the DLC being tied to them, it's still theft of a product you did not pay for. Though I won't play the moral police, it just makes sense to me what this is.

Personally, as a fan of Nintendo and the game industry in general, I wouldn't support this.

 

[Dandy Crocodile]

Is it really piracy when there are Amiibo cards for Amiibos which haven't even been produced? It seems more like a hacking/Action Replay situation.

The amiibos would eventually be produced so yeah, you're still stealing content that would be sold.

 

[Shiggy]

If you are downloading the needed files from the Internet, that a random person extracted from an Amiibo they bought so yourself and others can make bootlegs, you'd be hard pressed not to call this piracy. No matter your stance on how much Amiibo cost or your stance on the DLC being tied to them, it's still theft of a product you did not pay for. Though I won't play the moral police, it just makes sense to me what this is.

Personally, as a fan of Nintendo and the game industry in general, I wouldn't support this.

How can a person copy data from an Amiibo which nobody has because Nintendo has not released it yet?

 

[Marcel]

It's hard to feel bad about the negligible loss of Amiibo sales to a minority of buyers desperate enough to use bootlegs when the Switch is such a huge hit for Nintendo.

Win some, lose some.

 

[Mael]

Good to see where moral actually stops for some people.
I guess the next line will be trying to legitimize something like the r4 like during the DS days.

 

[Ms.Galaxy]

How can a person copy data from an Amiibo which nobody has because Nintendo has not released it yet?

If I recall, they call that Amiibo Spoofing. It's not the same data as NIntendo's future amiibo releases but a spoofed version of it that unlocks the same content. In that case, it's not really piracy, it really is like Action Replay and Gameshark. For example, the Majora's Mask amiibo and the card that people have made are likely two different sets of data that does the same thing.

 

[Marcel]

Good to see where moral actually stops for some people.
I guess the next line will be trying to legitimize something like the r4 like during the DS days.

There wouldn't be a problem if Nintendo didn't unwittingly cater to scalpers most of the time but here we are.

 

[kewlmyc]

Not ashamed to admit I bought some off ebay. It's scummy, I know, but got fed up once the only way to get the Fierce Deity costume in BotW was Best Buy exclusive and sold out in less than an hour.

 

[Shoyz]

This definitely toes the line of piracy not far off from if you were selling burnt game discs. And the game being sold out and scalped doesn't make it any less seemingly illegal.

Shocked people are willing to take the risk of selling these.

 

[mindatlarge]

How can a person copy data from an Amiibo which nobody has because Nintendo has not released it yet?

What are you referring to? We are discussing Amiibo that have been produced, sent to stores, been sold to customers, then said customers are extracting the needed files, uploading them to the Internet for others to make bootleg Amiibo or selling bootlegs themselves. In this case the article is about bootleg Amiibo cards people are producing from Amiibo files. Which is plainly piracy to me.

From the article: "With Legend of Zelda Amiibo figures perpetually sold out and fetching prohibitively high prices on eBay, many fans are turning to bootlegged “Amiibo cards” instead."

 

[emb]

Is it really piracy when there are Amiibo cards for Amiibos which haven't even been produced? It seems more like a hacking/Action Replay situation.

Yeah, I think that's a more apt comparison. Cheat/mod code devices settled in place a weren't a big deal for a while, but you don't really see them much any more. It's because now, games are srs business due to online interactions with other players, and microtransactions that add up to a lot of money for the publishers.

Personally, I'm not a fan of piracy (playing/owning the entire game without paying), but I couldn't ever fault anyone for refusing to pay for additional content for a game. You bought the game, that should be the end of the transactions unless you buy another copy. (Of course, it's more complicated than that though, and my view doesn't reflect how the world today works.)

I actually like amiibos, since I consider the cost to be going only to the figure, and the (usually) worthless content a freebie. But having stuff locked behind walls you can't break without spending money is frustrating.

On Nintendo's side, I'm surprised they don't offer digital versions of amiibo to alleviate stock concerns. They could do a free amiibo collection app, where you either scan the amiibo or purchase the unlock from the eShop. There are downsides to reducing the retail viability of the figures, but it seems like any downside would be shared with the cards they tried out.

 

[WordAssassin]

Is it really piracy when there are Amiibo cards for Amiibos which haven't even been produced? It seems more like a hacking/Action Replay situation.

Say what now? O:

 

[TheHellsLord]

It seems they are using Standard Compliant NFC and that does not support encryption. Of course they could encrypt the actual data stored on the tag but it still can be cloned and that's all that's needed (the encrypted data can be copied even if it can't be decrypted) You also can rewrite a tag time and time again (unless you lock it on purpose) and that allows you to change a single tag to any Amibo you want.

Some NFC Readers also allow for them to be run in TagEmulation mode which allows it to act as a NFC Tag themselves (likely the case for the devices that allow you to select the Amibo you want it to be).

If Nintendo wanted to solve this, they'd need to use an RFID technology that requires the encryption key to be provided to access data at all (something like DESfire EV2 with AES encryption). I somewhat doubt that they'd switch though, given that existing Amibo would still need to work. Most DESfire readers support standard compliant NFC too though, so they could switch over to that for new Amibos.

 

[Ms.Galaxy]

Not ashamed to admit I bought some off ebay. It's scummy, I know, but got fed up once the only way to get the Fierce Deity costume in BotW was Best Buy exclusive and sold out in less than an hour.

"Piracy is almost always a service problem and not a pricing problem." - Gabe Newell.

Nintendo's handling of amiibo is what has driven people to seek a more convenient option and that's bootleg cards and stuff. They have the means to make Amiibo cards of all amiibos, giving fans a cheaper and more convenient option, but they clearly don't want to do that because they want to make more money off the figurines.

 

[Shiggy]

What are you referring to? We are discussing Amiibo that have been produced, sent to stores, been sold to customers, then said customers are extracting the needed files, uploading them to the Internet for others to make bootleg Amiibo or selling bootlegs themselves. In this case the article is about bootleg Amiibo cards people are producing from Amiibo files. Which is plainly piracy to me.

From the article: "With Legend of Zelda Amiibo figures perpetually sold out and fetching prohibitively high prices on eBay, many fans are turning to bootlegged “Amiibo cards” instead."

It's kinda hidden in the article:

I purchased dozens of Amiibo cards to use with The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild including one with data for the Fierce Deity Link Amiibo, which Nintendo has yet to release, for $50.

 

[AcademicSaucer]

So piracy is no longer banned from neogaf? I guess now people can stop pretending they dump their own games on the emulator threads.

 

[mindatlarge]

It's kinda hidden in the article:

It's still theft whether it's a yet to be released Amiibo or not.

If you steal a yet to be released record by a music artist and upload the contents to the Internet, does that make it "ok" because it hasn't been released to the public yet?

No matter how you try and spin it, it'd be theft and piracy just like if the record had already been released to the public.

 

[Rolf NB]

Nintendo needs to get with the times and stop distributing their season passes physically.

 

[Marcel]

So piracy is no longer banned from neogaf? I guess now people can stop pretending they dump their own games on the emulator threads.

I mean, if you actually believed all those people were telling the truth at all times then that's hilarious.

 

[Ms.Galaxy]

So piracy is no longer banned from neogaf? I guess now people can stop pretending they dump their own games on the emulator threads.

Piracy doesn't seem to always apply in some cases, one example some are talking about is the Fierce Deity and Skyward Sword bootleg amiibos. They are not copying data from Nintendo, that data doesn't exist to the public at this time, they created original data that does the same thing. That's not piracy, that's hacking. And I'm honestly wondering if people can do the same thing with previous amiibos, because then Nintendo has no legal case against that.

It's still theft whether it's a yet to be released Amiibo or not.

If you steal a yet to be released record by a music artist and upload the contents to the Internet, does that make it "ok" because it hasn't been released to the public yet?

Clearly not.

As I mentioned, the Majora's Mask and Skyward Sword bootlegs that are out right now are not the same data as Nintendo's, it's original code that spoofs the amiibo and makes it do the same thing, but it's not the same. That's not theft, that's competing products at that point. It's a hack.

 

[PSFan]

I own every amiibo save the animal crossing ones

I want these out of convenience. I can fit the zelda ones in my switch case and take them on the go. The figures are neat collectibles but they're super bulky and not as convenient to use.

I'd go bankrupt if nintendo sold amiibo card packs that were NOT animal crossing, I think.

Uh, they now have Mario amiibo cards that work with the Sports Mix game. Did you not know this?

 

[Shiggy]

It's still theft whether it's a yet to be released Amiibo or not.

If you steal a yet to be released record by a music artist and upload the contents to the Internet, does that make it "ok" because it hasn't been released to the public yet?

Clearly not.

So hacking your own games is illegal? Genuine question. You're basically gaining access to on-disc content through reverse engineering without manipulating game code.

 

[Regiruler]

You do it with a NFC enabled smartphone.

On the subject, I really dislike amiibo locked content due this, if you want all Mario Kart skins you need to spend more than 200 USD, which is ridiculous, way worst than DLC.... Amiibo should be an instant way to unlock things, not the only one.

You don't need to be the one to buy all those amiibo.

 

[NoblesseOblige]

Amiibos are the absolute worst implementation of DLC or whatever you want to call it. Any means of circumventing them is fine by me.

 

[Eggiem]

Is buying a Wolf Link amiibo nfc chip for 3$ piracy, when the original one isnt available anymore?!

'No!' says the man in Washington, 'It hurts Nintendo.' 'No!' says the man in the Vatican, 'It belongs to the scalpers.' 'Yes!' says the man in Moscow, 'It belongs to everyone.' I rejected those answers; instead, I chose something different. I chose the impossible. I chose...

 

[mindatlarge]

Piracy doesn't seem to always apply in some cases, one example some are talking about is the Fierce Deity and Skyward Sword bootleg amiibos. They are not copying data from Nintendo, that data doesn't exist to the public at this time, they created original data that does the same thing. That's not piracy, that's hacking. And I'm honestly wondering if people can do the same thing with previous amiibos, because then Nintendo has no legal case against that.



As I mentioned, the Majora's Mask and Skyward Sword bootlegs that are out right now are not the same data as Nintendo's, it's original code that spoofs the amiibo and makes it do the same thing, but it's not the same. That's not theft, that's competing products at that point. It's a hack.

If that's the case, it may be a grey area, but one that lends its self to shady activity and still theft since you are stealing DLC you did not pay for.

Now what the bulk of this issue revolves around is Amiibo that have already been released, files taken from said Amiibo and used to create bootlegs. I don't think your "spoofing" point applies here. Even if it did, you are still stealing the DLC, since you know, you didn't pay for it.

 

[thecouncil]

I don't think Robin Hood stole from the rich to sell to the poor at a lower cost.

 

[Avallon]

This is just a more expensive way of doing what the N2 Elite does.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1098483

 

[mindatlarge]

So hacking your own games is illegal? Genuine question. You're basically gaining access to on-disc content through reverse engineering without manipulating game code.

Did you pay for the game you are modding? Is it allowed by the developers? Then of course it is fine.

That comparison to this activity is apples and oranges. You really think people making bootleg Amiibo from files they downloaded off the Internet or buying them from a secondary party is legal or right when you did not pay a dime to the original creators of the DLC content, Nintendo, or the bootleggers did not have permission to reproduce or in this case "unlock" said content made and sold by Nintendo?

 

[Ms.Galaxy]

If that's the case, it may be a grey area, but one that lends its self to shady activity and still theft since you are stealing DLC you did not pay for.

Now what the bulk of this issue revolves around is Amiibo that have already been released, files taken from said Amiibo and used to create bootlegs. I don't think your "spoofing" point applies here. Even if it did, you are still stealing the DLC, since you know, you didn't pay for it.

The content is already on the disc or software that I already paid for, I have the right to access the files inside the disc, by any means. Nintendo can take me to court on that, but they will lose quickly. Just as they did when they try to stop Game Genie.

 

[AColdDay]

I did it for Breath of The Wild. Everything online was way too expensive and I would have bought one legit if I could have bought it for MSRP. For the record, I ended up buying a Bobokin amiibo because it was one of the few amiibos I could buy online for the actual price.

I used TagMo an android app, bought 5 NFC cards for 5 dollars and spent a day doing it. I spent more time finding a version of TagMo that works with my version of Android then it took to actually write the data to the card.

 

[Breads]

Good Job making DLC people can't get to without going through bullshit Nintendo.

 

[UltraMav]

I am super happy this is a thing, especially for Zelda. I hate the way amiibos were implemented in that game, but I love all the things you can get with them.

 

[Huge Succeeded]

My little brother has nearly every single Amiibo, but he wanted to get them put up in a display case, and that's a one-and-done thing that prevents us from ever using those Amiibo.
So I didn't feel even a little bad ordering 100 nickel-sized NFC tags off the internet and using my phone to copy them bitches over. Now we've just got a small plastic zip-lock bag filled with smaller bags, each of those smaller bags being a complete 'set' filled with labled NFC stickers.

Also, I made like 10 spoofed Deity Links for Breath of the Wild, and I also made myself and each of my brothers a 20x Heart Wolf Link, too (we've got WL amiibo but we don't have TP... so I just grabbed the 20 heart data off the internet and said fuck it)


Finally, to top it all off - the very same day I ordered those tags, I also ordered 200 inch-diameter wooden coins, a roll of 700 inch-diameter black stickers, and 12 sheets of 48-per-sheet white stickers onto which I can print logos.

One of these days, I'm gonna make my stickers into flush looking Amiibo Coins, complete with each character's face on top.

 

[psyfi]

Whoa cool, this is really interesting.

 

[mindatlarge]

The content is already on the disc or software that I already paid for, I have the right to access the files inside the disc, by any means. Nintendo can take me to court on that, but they will lose quickly. Just as they did when they try to stop Game Genie.

Ok, so you're cool with stealing DLC. Got it.

 

[Steiner]

Is the ammiqo still around and functioning?

 

[Shiggy]

If that's the case, it may be a grey area, but one that lends its self to shady activity and still theft since you are stealing DLC you did not pay for.

Now what the bulk of this issue revolves around is Amiibo that have already been released, files taken from said Amiibo and used to create bootlegs. I don't think your "spoofing" point applies here. Even if it did, you are still stealing the DLC, since you know, you didn't pay for it.

That's not stealing though. Stealing is by taking something from someone without paying money. Here you're not doing that, assuming the Amiibo data is not copied from an existing Amiibo. Consider a supermarket selling a sandwich for 5 EUR, do you consider it stealing when you make your own sandwich? With these Amiibo unlockables you already have all the content on your disc, it's not even DLC. You're just finding your own "recipe" to access the content if you do the hacking thing.

Did you pay for the game you are modding? Is it allowed by the developers? Then of course it is fine.

That comparison to this activity is apples and oranges. You really think people making bootleg Amiibo from files they downloaded off the Internet or buying them from a secondary party is legal or right when you did not pay a dime to the original creators of the DLC content, Nintendo or the bootleggers did not have permission to reproduce said content from Nintendo?

If the developers don't allow hacking, is it legal or illegal? Whether it's fine is a totally different question.

The second part of your post is kinda irrelevant to what I'm asking. People selling these cards are obviously acting illegally as they are using Nintendo's properties.

 

[Avallon]

Is the ammiqo still around and functioning?

Yes. It's called the N2 Elite now.

 

[Ms.Galaxy]

Ok, so you're cool with stealing DLC. Got it.

Yeah, sure, if your loose interpretation of DLC includes "content that's already in the game". Sorry, but no. I know my legal rights as a consumer, and I know for a fact that I have the right to access everything in the product I purchased. I can access Amiibo functionalities without even the amiibo bootleg either, it only takes a save editing program really.

What I don't have the right to is to steal actual DLC, as in content that's not in the thing I purchased. That's actual stealing.

 

[Huge Succeeded]

Ok, so you're cool with stealing DLC. Got it.

If I could steal crate keys, I probably would (lol)

 

[Avallon]

Yeah, sure, if your loose interpretation of DLC includes "content that's already in the game"

If the only way to get it is to pay someone to unlock it, it's not "in the game."

 

[Steiner]

Yes. It's called the N2 Elite now.

Good to know. I just started buying a few amiibo, but I keep them on my work desk. This would be nice so I could still have access to their data while playing at home.

 

[BRocknRolla]

I always love a good thread about piracy.

The number of "THIS IS MY RIGHT!" posts showing no understanding at all of the law is always entertaining. People can argue the moral high ground all they want, but piracy is still illegal.

 

[Avallon]

I always love a good thread about piracy.

The number of "THIS IS MY RIGHT!" posts showing no understanding at all of the law is always entertaining. People can argue the moral high ground all they want, but piracy is still illegal.

 

 

[llehuty]

Yeah, sure, if your loose interpretation of DLC includes "content that's already in the game". Sorry, but no. I know my legal rights as a consumer, and I know for a fact that I have the right to access everything in the product.

hahaha, good one. (You are wrong).

 

[Glass Shark]

.

 

[Huge Succeeded]

"Piracy is almost always a service problem and not a pricing problem." - Gabe Newell

I've always hated that quote and I feel like it's ass-backwards.

Piracy isn't a service problem. Piracy will exist regardless of the quality of your service.
Providing a quality service should be seen as a worthwhile means by which to curb some piracy
as opposed to piracy being seen as the natural result of poor service. That's warped.

 

[molnizzle]

I always love a good thread about piracy.

The number of "THIS IS MY RIGHT!" posts showing no understanding at all of the law is always entertaining. People can argue the moral high ground all they want, but piracy is still illegal.

Okay? I don't think anyone is arguing about the legality of the situation. There are plenty of laws on the books that I disagree with.

The morality of any given situation is all I care about.

 

[eggandI]

wtf they are stealing from ninty. did someone report this to the fbi?