R
Retro_
Unconfirmed Member
Seems like that'd be something reasonable to check into before publishing an article about the game being cancelled
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Kotaku: Gamings Biggest Problem Is That Nobody Wants To Talk
- Thread starter Gsak
- Start date
Seems like that'd be something reasonable to check into before publishing an article about the game being cancelled
flyinpiranha
Member
George Broussard weighing in on Twitter
Damn, it's hard not to see both sides on this thing.
I think I'll go back to blaming "entitled gamerz" as the root of the problem in the industry.
I really don't know how I feel about the new SimCity. It will be the first game to come out in recent times that's not centered on shootbang that interests me, but this whole multiplayer thing and online being required gives me pause. Not only that but I'll be forced to use Origin and the game's backed by EA so who knows how they're gonna try and fuck me in the ass. Tough decisions.
OT I do wish companies were more transparent, the more I can see the less on guard I'll have to be. Doesn't help that sometimes I'm looked at as pirate who will hack/sue them at the drop of a hat. The further they crawl into obscuration to keep their games "safe" the more chance I won't even give it the time of day.
OldJadedGamer
Banned
Don't show or talk about games until they are ready to be played by people outside the company and stop giving free games to the press. Problem solved.
Incendiary
Banned
I think there are problems on both sides, the gaming press and the developers. The gaming press like to sensationalize, hyperbolize, and twist the words of developers. We have people like Pachter who go crazy with predictions and people like Paul Gale who alternately post cryptic spoilers (PSBR) of a game only a few months away from release and then make shit up completely (Star Fox x Metroid). On the other hand, sometimes gaming companies play information so close to the vest that we'll sit and not hear anything for years after an announcement, which begs the question why you would make an announcement and not want to follow up on it.
Journalists in general get a bad rap, a lot of the time it's deserved but sometimes they can only work with the information they have. I think both sides perpetuate the problem and it'll probably only get worse unless we can work on both sides communicating better. Gaming journalists need to stop sensationalizing things and making real reviews and real news stories, and then the publishers can be more comfortable sharing information.
Journalists in general get a bad rap, a lot of the time it's deserved but sometimes they can only work with the information they have. I think both sides perpetuate the problem and it'll probably only get worse unless we can work on both sides communicating better. Gaming journalists need to stop sensationalizing things and making real reviews and real news stories, and then the publishers can be more comfortable sharing information.
Did they hurt your feelings by posting a rumor?
flyinpiranha
Member
Yes it is. Stop being so secretive ... but it's probably more the publishers than the developers so I can't really speak to why they do what they do.
IC_Champion
Member
"Why is journalism so hard" - Kotaku
One of the reasons -- to my understanding -- as to why games Journalism is mocked or looked down upon is because I am starting to see more blogging sites popping up. My point is that an individual doesn't even need a traditional Journalism degree anymore; he or she just writes about what they observe or like.
batman2million
Member
Great article, but I doubt it's as simple as that. Either way, from what I'm seeing this days the gaming industry has a lot of problems.
I do think that communication is one of them but definitely not the biggest one.
One big factor that I do see is that there is no government regulations or laws on the work force. No doubt, the working for a game developer is a much different environment than other industries. There needs to be enforcement on how companies cannot force their employees to work overtime, longer than they will, etc.
Yes, there are a lot of other factors but this comes to the same topic to where the companies have more rights then the employees do. I don't want to get into the details but generally there needs to be some laws or regulations for people working in this industry specifically.
And this is coming from someone who has worked for a game developer. You are at the mercy of your employer, period.
I do think that communication is one of them but definitely not the biggest one.
One big factor that I do see is that there is no government regulations or laws on the work force. No doubt, the working for a game developer is a much different environment than other industries. There needs to be enforcement on how companies cannot force their employees to work overtime, longer than they will, etc.
Yes, there are a lot of other factors but this comes to the same topic to where the companies have more rights then the employees do. I don't want to get into the details but generally there needs to be some laws or regulations for people working in this industry specifically.
And this is coming from someone who has worked for a game developer. You are at the mercy of your employer, period.
timetokill
Banned
Notch getting in on the "Kotaku Sucks" action:
Totilo tries to follow up:
Totilo tries to follow up:
Neuromancer
Member
Beaten
Ouch that must have hurt, being exposed by someone so famous. Would love to read an interview at RPS.
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
We've all been saying this for a long time. This is how public relations/public affairs/marketing goes wrong...when they start driving the bus, instead of just navigating it. It's a common phenomenon in growth industries and it usually lasts until "fans" or at least people who understand the industry on a fundamental level, becoming marketing reps.
Somebody who truly understands gaming culture at large wouldn't do half the shit marketing reps (who are still treating the industry like the bastard child of Hollywood) are currently doing.
Yes, gaming "journalists" are also to blame by allowing themselves to be co-opted like they have by marketers, but they're not wholly to blame.
Somebody who truly understands gaming culture at large wouldn't do half the shit marketing reps (who are still treating the industry like the bastard child of Hollywood) are currently doing.
Yes, gaming "journalists" are also to blame by allowing themselves to be co-opted like they have by marketers, but they're not wholly to blame.
Projectjustice
Banned
The entitled gamer is the bane of this industry. Everything has to be dirt cheap or free.
SapientWolf
Trucker Sexologist
Maybe it's because you used the sensationalist title "Is Windows 8 the Biggest Threat to the Future of PC Gaming?" when the actual feedback was a lot more nuanced.
notworksafe
Member
If I was making games this is the exact reason I wouldn't want to talk to Kotaku. They'll take even the most insignificant remark and blow it up into the most sensationalist, Perez Hilton-y bullshit headline ever.
It seems weird that a website that would make talking impossible talks about the importance of talking.
(yes, I know, it's a degree of hyperbole, but finding good comments is next to impossible, and the number of non-commenters who have friended me on Steam over the years because of commenters have said they don't even visit any more because the comment sections are like IGN)
I never minded somewhat sensationalistic headlines, because, hey, they were just headlines--the articles themselves tended to be great when not involving gender issues.
(yes, I know, it's a degree of hyperbole, but finding good comments is next to impossible, and the number of non-commenters who have friended me on Steam over the years because of commenters have said they don't even visit any more because the comment sections are like IGN)
I never minded somewhat sensationalistic headlines, because, hey, they were just headlines--the articles themselves tended to be great when not involving gender issues.
Joe Shlabotnik
Banned
I'll assume no one, including the interested parties reading this thread, has responded to this post because it thoroughly negates the thread topic and referenced article.
NeoGAF: Better Journalism From Non-Journalists Since 1999
Not at all loaded, nice.
"Hey Notch, all the cool guys hate Windows 8, it's a real piece of shit amirite?"
Betteridge's Law applies nicely here.
Delusibeta
Banned
As I said, from the perspective of game developers and publishers, games journalists are The Enemy.
R
Retro_
Unconfirmed Member
Lol
You're not asking him about his thoughts on windows 8. You're asking him on his thoughts on the conclusions you've drawn from whatever previous statement he made
bad form
NoirVisage
Banned
wow.. so you're blaming THEM for YOUR outfits lame and possibly imaginary source?
Not only the gaming equivalent of the enquirer, you're also self entitled and illogical.
You're either attention whoring majorly, or just that clueless.
Did he hurt your by having an opinion?
Whatevz,
keep earning that tag
Its almost like the games industry is filled with immaturity and incompetency.
Oh shit...
MikeE21286
Member
They only talk to the gaming press when if fits their needs.
You are tools in their marketing/PR.
Truth hurts?
You are tools in their marketing/PR.
Truth hurts?
D
Deleted member 20415
Unconfirmed Member
I formerly wrote for a gaming site for several years. I was never under the pretension that I was a "games journalist" - in fact, if a friend introduced me to someone else they would often say "He's a games journalist" and I would correct them and say "Well, I write about games."
When the "games journalist" buzzword caught fire 4 or so years ago, you'd see all these guys claiming to be a journalist, and then they would drip feed on publishers' words. They'd rail against the industry and wholly participate in the process. I grew tired of all that crap. There are very few out there that adhere to any journalistic standards and principles, but claim to nonetheless.
I stopped listening to most of those guys, stopped reading their crap. I don't want a games press that is straight journalism, because that would be terribly boring - a few here and there aren't bad; but I wish games writers would give up the ghost and embrace the fact that they write about games, and they aren't journalists.
I don't blame publishers and developers for keeping everyone at an arm's distance. Too much "gotcha" writing going on out there - across all media. You'll expend more energy correcting problems (misquotes, out of context information, flat out lies) then designing release information schedules.
When the "games journalist" buzzword caught fire 4 or so years ago, you'd see all these guys claiming to be a journalist, and then they would drip feed on publishers' words. They'd rail against the industry and wholly participate in the process. I grew tired of all that crap. There are very few out there that adhere to any journalistic standards and principles, but claim to nonetheless.
I stopped listening to most of those guys, stopped reading their crap. I don't want a games press that is straight journalism, because that would be terribly boring - a few here and there aren't bad; but I wish games writers would give up the ghost and embrace the fact that they write about games, and they aren't journalists.
I don't blame publishers and developers for keeping everyone at an arm's distance. Too much "gotcha" writing going on out there - across all media. You'll expend more energy correcting problems (misquotes, out of context information, flat out lies) then designing release information schedules.
They did since the day Wada tweeted it's not canned.
It's difficult to say really, SE don't owe them an update on a game, announced or otherwise, and clearly they either didn't have a source, or more likely didn't vet the source they did have, and SE are certainly not responsible for the competency of Kotaku's vetting process. However, publishers have to decline to respond to rumors most the time, if they deny every false rumor, by process of elimination you can determine which rumors are real, but they could have told them off the record not to run the story and "It's in development, your source is incorrect" I imagine.
Maybe they wanted to burn them though, they deserve it clearly.
NoirVisage
Banned
They're not even gaming press, they're a unapologetic blog that kinda deebo'ed their way into infamy. They leave behind them a trail of bad form and childish antics that sites focused on actual gaming journalism would never attempt for good reason..they burn bridges without realizing it small wonder ANY company would come to them with exclusives, or anything else out side of free press.
I'd like to know this too. I remember Jason believing that slapping *RUMOR* on pictures he found on NeoGaf through 4chan and thought that this kind of route to producing news pieces on the site would be okay if the story somehow ended up being true. Jason doesn't seem to have his own sources and would rather put out a story and get hits rather than wait to put out an accurate story. It's a systemic issue with all blogs and social media, because its only purpose is being first. So if you sling the most outlandish rumors or post pictures of cosplay babes in the place of a story you'll get those unique page views and continue to be employed.
I'd like to know if page view has or over the last 12 months has had an impact on bonus payouts.
Notch getting in on the "Kotaku Sucks" action:
Totilo tries to follow up:
It makes more sense to go with a magazine that actually has the space to provide context for quotes. Kotaku and most gaming blogs need hyperbole like "BIGGEST PROBLEM IN GAMING" or "incendiary quote taken away from context of interview" to draw in hits.
D
Deleted member 20415
Unconfirmed Member
That's a considerable part of their payment. Writers are compensated for bigger hits; I'm not outwardly against that... you want writers to be invested in their stuff and getting more eyeballs on it. That said, a byproduct of that is shock (classless) writing.
Good article, nice to see someone else think about this crap. To carry on with the Hollywood analogy, studios announce project the day they are greenlit, sometimes even before they are greenlit, when they're just kicking ideas around. And they do it with fanfare, proud of their projects. The secrecy that goes on in this industry cannot be qualified as anything but immature. Even worse is during interviews when people flat out refuse to answer even the most basic questions.
Personally, I see Nintendo's Reggie Fils-Aime as the worst example of this. Every single answer he gives seems to be prepackaged PR, and everything about him seems fake as fuck. I heavily dislike him.
Personally, I see Nintendo's Reggie Fils-Aime as the worst example of this. Every single answer he gives seems to be prepackaged PR, and everything about him seems fake as fuck. I heavily dislike him.
NoirVisage
Banned
good point, but i thought they dropped the rumor over the weekend when PR wasn't even available.. if thats true, their "WHY S.E. WAIT SO LONG TO REPLY..HUH?" defense is empty.
Kotaku wants more prototypes and cancelled projects to be shown, why are they so afraid of showing them up, if they're just harmless information? Because no company want's to deal with it's own Megaman Legends 3 Project. If companies showed us every little game they axe or cancel I think their fans would hate them even more.
If you want to make it to the big show every story must ask a question that takes rather nuanced answers and take them to the extreme. Also, slapping rumor on unconfirmed and unsourced news gives you an easy out if the story isn't true. Free hits, no work. If I it turns out to be true Kotaku is on the forefront of gaming news. Blogs like Kotaku are unethical in their approach to news. As a media outlet that has enough power to find its way into the New York Times, Kotaku has responsibilities to follow a journalistic process that often seems to be detrimental to the type of reporting that they do.
NoirVisage
Banned
What are you talking about, they responded to the source of the rumors, Wada was the official word, the only bad PR was on sites that rely on kotaku for rumors, they all looked silly. SE got away free for once.
There was 4 days between the rumor being reported and Wada's tweet.
SolidSnakex
Member
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izlnLgxgmJY#t=3m31s
That's still one of the funniest moments from E3.
Why is it bad PR to not correct publications about a cancellation the second it's posted? They couldn't have handled it better, they wrote off the rumors as baseless shit, and in the most cavalier manner, they couldn't have made those publications look worse.
They haven't even started marketing the game, it doesn't matter yet.
They haven't even started marketing the game, it doesn't matter yet.
SpaceDrake
Member
This is p. much why I try to announce projects as soon as the ink is dry on the contract. No reason not to disclose this sort of stuff.
(It's also why I'm mad annoyed about the silence surrounding Project Four but that's practically its own thread)
That being said, Broussard and others are totally right, the public companies are terrified of bad press and tbh the Kotaku article is wrong, you DO see a lot of stonewalling in the movie biz for example, it's just harder to keep actual in-production stuff under wraps because it involves people going out and doing stuff, it can't all be confined to one office.
(It's also why I'm mad annoyed about the silence surrounding Project Four but that's practically its own thread)
That being said, Broussard and others are totally right, the public companies are terrified of bad press and tbh the Kotaku article is wrong, you DO see a lot of stonewalling in the movie biz for example, it's just harder to keep actual in-production stuff under wraps because it involves people going out and doing stuff, it can't all be confined to one office.
Eggplant Wizard
Member
Somebody give me a valid reason why GAF hates Kotaku. I've rolled my eyes at them plenty in the past, but lately every time I'm linked to them (not a regular reader, I'll admit) their articles seem thoughtful and more ahead-of-the-curve than most of the gaming community.
Case in point:
Kotaku: Assassin's Creed's New Black Heroine Could Represent a New Kind of Liberation
IGN: FREE SH*T
It feels like GAF's willfully turning a blind eye to the thing it claims to want.
Case in point:
Kotaku: Assassin's Creed's New Black Heroine Could Represent a New Kind of Liberation
IGN: FREE SH*T
It feels like GAF's willfully turning a blind eye to the thing it claims to want.
People have a tendency to focus (and be vocal) more on what's been done wrong and pay less to no attention on what's done right. It's something to vent about, maybe.
You are right, though. Their articles have been more insightful as of recent, and I do appreciate how their reviews get straight down to the point.
It's just when the typical journalist sensationalism comes up that pisses me off. I kind of agree with Notch saying how they [Kotaku] are the problem. It also bugs me when they bring up the "Kotaku has reached out to ____ for a comment and will update in response."
They've done this on instances where it borderlines inappropriate (something being leaked) and its redundant as well. Don't tell us you'll reach out for a comment, just update the article when you have.
It is definitely bad PR to let the internet spread stories for days that your 6+ years in development, extremely expensive, exclusive, high profile brand game is cancelled.
edit: oops, Wada isn't the director