I listen to Sirius radio and the hosts endlessly read ads. This is part of broadcasting. Why is it somehow not okay from Youtube presenters in the mind of Kotaku and some in this thread?
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Kotaku: Some Real Rules For Shilling Video Games On YouTube
- Thread starter ashecitism
- Start date
I listen to Sirius radio and the hosts endlessly read ads. This is part of broadcasting. Why is it somehow not okay from Youtube presenters in the mind of Kotaku and some in this thread?
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
I agreed until I read this post, seems like it is, in fact, quite often underhanded:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=193698828&postcount=85
I know Vinny on Vinesauce will not take one of those contracts unless he's allowed to talk crap about the games. And you'd also be surprised at how many don't want you to talk crap about it.
I think there's also this weird blur where I have seen let's players have to come out and say that "this isn't advertising, I genuinely do really like this game" and that is honestly very weird to hear. The content of the person and their persona playing a video game mixing in with advertisement is a weird blend for some because they seem like average joes that you can understand and relate to on some level compared to a celebrity.
I think there's also this weird blur where I have seen let's players have to come out and say that "this isn't advertising, I genuinely do really like this game" and that is honestly very weird to hear. The content of the person and their persona playing a video game mixing in with advertisement is a weird blend for some because they seem like average joes that you can understand and relate to on some level compared to a celebrity.
TheActtionFigure
Member
Sounds to me like Kotaku is a little salty that youtubers are more popular than traditional games media. Most youtubers, at least the folks I follow, disclose that they're being paid to shill. Shit, if my channel was bigger I have no shame in saying that I would do it too.
And now you know why you should always look for commentary less gaming vids on youtube.
And yeah I would actually avoid youtubers that get paid to shill, if I want to watch an ad for a game I might as well go to the game youtube account.
Like youtube ads aren't enough marketing.
Mael 8)
And yeah I would actually avoid youtubers that get paid to shill, if I want to watch an ad for a game I might as well go to the game youtube account.
Like youtube ads aren't enough marketing.
Mael 8)
Perfect World requires you to disclose, which is the subject of the Kotaku article. Perfect World requested the author to disclose that it's a promotional video. It's presented as a saucy exposé but there's nothing to expose.
Just because somewhere a youtuber is being a little shit and deceiving her or his audience doesn't mean the concept of promotional videos is invalid or that all youtubers are little shits.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
I started a thread on how amusing these ads are for me as a non US citizen whom the ads rarely target.
In the context of the article it mentions 45 to 1 min at the start of a video though, from my experience those tend to be clearly labeled.
There's probably been a hell lot of illegal advertisements or infractions, I know of more than a few and I'm only watching a miniscule amount of youtubers. But this particulär case is a non issue, the email reads grossly though
Mr Fahrenheit
Member
It's nothing horribly enlightening, it's basically exactly what every other endorsement email ever made looks like. Hardly hot behind-the-scenes industry secrets being exposed.
Gold_Loot
Member
Irony at it's finest.
Aces&Eights
Member
Misleading consumers is slimy but expected by corporations.
You'll never guess how many posts Aces&Eights makes a day. Number 7 will blow your mind!
You'll never guess how many posts Aces&Eights makes a day. Number 7 will blow your mind!
thelastcrusader
Banned
I worked for a marketing company. All those youtubers and bloggers do this kinda shit for everything from food to shaving cream to services to videogames. Social media as a whole is just a tool for marketers. It's one of the reasons I don't have any or feed any of these fucking snakes.
RealityCheque
Banned
Question : would anyone here like to sign up for neverwinter?
I am not being compensated for suggesting this. Honest.
I am not being compensated for suggesting this. Honest.
TheBryanJZX90
Member
"requires to disclose" is a very vague requirement. The requirements don't say "Your video must have SPONSORED BY in the title" or "You must say 'This video has been sponsored' or anything like that. Just "disclose" which people may or may not do to an acceptable degree. If it's just one word in the description, and it often is, that's shady as fuck. It wouldn't even be displayed unless someone clicks to show the description.
And of course that doesn't mean all youtubers are bad. I love the advertisements the Game Grumps do for crunchyroll and whatnot.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
I read the article and I'm not even sure what the point of the article is. If a company approaches you to advertise a product, like, who cares? Why is that scandalous? They require you to disclose that it's an ad.
Is this a scandal also? Should Kotaku write a scathing article?
Both compelling arguments. Puts it in a whole new perspective.
It's against Youtube ToS and the only time something that underhanded happened was at Machinima during the Xbone release.
On my Youtube feed, here are examples of the sponsored ads within the past week or so:
Seananners - World Chef
Angry Joe - Hard West
Two Best Friends - Dying Light Expansion
FunHaus - The Division
Seananners - Far Cry Primal
Like others said, it's not anything mind opening. Really run of the mill videos, nothing that lives up to Kotaku being marauders here.
Fantastapotamus
Wrong about commas, wrong about everything
That might be the most corporate saying I've ever heard. I would totally trust a youtuber who says that.
"Hey guys, Youtubeman45 here with a special message.
Math can be kinda hard, but there is nothing dividing about The Division. Play with your friends in this open world shooter/RPG hybrid and really rack up some points! Massive is not only the name of the developer but also the amount of fun you will have while rummaging throught the streets of a not-so-deserted New York. Figure out a huge conspiracy around a mysterious virus that struck the US when it was at it's most vulnerable! But always keep an eye on your back, you never know when your buddy might decide to betray you and take off with your hard-earned loot!
Thanks, please like follow and subscribe!"
WhiteRabbitEXE
Member
It's not supposed to be "scandalous" or "scathing". It's just a look at what kind of rules are being established. It's a peak behind the curtain, nothing more.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
Those examples(Covergirl and radio hosts) aren't really comparable. Youtube right now is in a state of 'wild west' in comparison to radio and commercials/advertising deals.
For example...let's say XxXMinecraftProXxX does minecraft and minecraft like videos. And he usually tends to focus on these types of games. Let's say he has 500k subscribers, and these fans go to him to listen to his opinion on minecraft, watch him play, maybe even look at his other videos of minecraft-like games.
So let's say XxXMinecraftProXxX uploads a video about Starcraft online. And it's a positive video! He seems really into it, and he invites his fans to "Play with him" and to click the referral link. And at the bottom of the description, all the way down there past his social media links, on bottom, is 'This was paid for by Perfect World'. Some people might catch that. Many won't. Alot of times the description box will show one or two lines, in this case the referral link. So his fans, trusting XxXMinecraftProXxX's word, click this link and buy into Star Trek.
Sure, technically-
-He says it's by perfect world, in the description box
But, despite that, there is a shilling to it. It's underhanded. There is something scummy about doing that, Total Biscuit has a great video about it.
Hell, TB in the first minute goes on about what the marketing pamphlet kotaku posted talks about-It's not made to look like an advertisement, because the youtuber is told to say something like this-
"I totally wasn't paid to say that I play this game! Come play with me!" Watch the video I linked. It goes in depth, and TB is someone who's been in situations involving paid promotions.
For example...let's say XxXMinecraftProXxX does minecraft and minecraft like videos. And he usually tends to focus on these types of games. Let's say he has 500k subscribers, and these fans go to him to listen to his opinion on minecraft, watch him play, maybe even look at his other videos of minecraft-like games.
So let's say XxXMinecraftProXxX uploads a video about Starcraft online. And it's a positive video! He seems really into it, and he invites his fans to "Play with him" and to click the referral link. And at the bottom of the description, all the way down there past his social media links, on bottom, is 'This was paid for by Perfect World'. Some people might catch that. Many won't. Alot of times the description box will show one or two lines, in this case the referral link. So his fans, trusting XxXMinecraftProXxX's word, click this link and buy into Star Trek.
Sure, technically-
-He says it's by perfect world, in the description box
But, despite that, there is a shilling to it. It's underhanded. There is something scummy about doing that, Total Biscuit has a great video about it.
Hell, TB in the first minute goes on about what the marketing pamphlet kotaku posted talks about-It's not made to look like an advertisement, because the youtuber is told to say something like this-
"I totally wasn't paid to say that I play this game! Come play with me!" Watch the video I linked. It goes in depth, and TB is someone who's been in situations involving paid promotions.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
No no, everything is an outrage these days. You can't just write stuff that isn't meant to rile you up and just be informative and interesting!
Ehh, I could see your point, but I personally disagree that it is inherently underhanded.
If some hypothetical person is clicking on the link despite a disclaimer in the video and the description, it's on the fault of the person clicking the link.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
They chose to use the word "shilling", which would imply this:
They were told to say it was an ad. So you are disclosing it was a paid advertisement, rather than failing to disclose there was a business relationship.
So yes, the title of the article set the tone of a little more than just being "informative". I mean look at the narration this thread took cause of it.
It is no different than allowing ads to be clicked on your site, they are just using YouTube celebrities like Icy Hot uses Shaq. Or Greg Miller reading off an ad in the beginning of the PS Podcast. As long as they disclose it is an ad, how is this any different than commercials or the like?
They were told to say it was an ad. So you are disclosing it was a paid advertisement, rather than failing to disclose there was a business relationship.
So yes, the title of the article set the tone of a little more than just being "informative". I mean look at the narration this thread took cause of it.
It is no different than allowing ads to be clicked on your site, they are just using YouTube celebrities like Icy Hot uses Shaq. Or Greg Miller reading off an ad in the beginning of the PS Podcast. As long as they disclose it is an ad, how is this any different than commercials or the like?
TheBryanJZX90
Member
I'm gonna take a quick look at these to see how everyone labels their videos. I'll watch later but for now just based on what is written:
Seananners - World Chef
-video title does not indicate the video is sponsored content
-"sponsoring" appears in the last line of the description before the fold
Angry Joe - Hard West
-video title does not indicate the video is sponsored content
-"Promo" is the first word in the video's description
Two Best Friends - Dying Light Expansion
-video title does not indicate the video is sponsored content
-nowhere in the video description does it state it is sponsored content
FunHaus - The Division
-video title does not indicate the video is sponsored content
-sirst line of the video description states it has been sponsored by Ubisoft
Seananners - Far Cry Primal
-video title does not indicate the video is sponsored content
-second line of the video description states it is sponsored (still above the fold)
So those are all pretty good except for Two Best Friends. Hopefully they were very clear right of the bat in that video that they were paid. No one tried to weasel out and put the disclosure after the fold, at least. But it can get better. No one puts "sponsored" in the title of their video. There's nothing visually that I saw in any video title cards that stated a video was sponsored. But I wasn't looking too closely there and I didn't have sound on.
I do think we should push for more and more disclosure. Don't be satisfied by a line in the video description and a sentence at the end of a video. The closest analogue I can think of is paid articles in magazines. The problem is that when the paid content is so close in form to unpaid content the lines get blurred and it can be easy to overlook a single disclaimer. So in those paid articles in magazines I always remembered that "ADVERTISEMENT" had to be written clearly on every single damn page. Those always stuck out to me.
Jacksinthe
Banned
I don't know how convincing this ad will be unless Jason shows some skin. Why am I not seeing that under "DO:"?
GearDraxon
Member
I'm going to go ahead and say that the difference is a combination of two aspects:
a) The product being advertised is in the same market as what the site/channel normally covers, ostensibly with subjective analysis. When Giant Bomb does an ad for mattresses, I'm immediately clued into the fact that it's an ad because the show isn't (usually) talking about the relative quality of mattresses.
b) The nature of the advertisement is so similar to their typical content as to be indistinguishable, without the "promo" in the description text.
The combination of these two things is what could be misleading. Without reading the description text, there is *no* way to know this is sponsored content.
Well yeah most of those begin with mentioning it's a sponsored video unless they are doing something unrelated to the game, the videos also all mention that it's brought to them by "X" company and they usually end by saying thanks or whatever, like an ad read.
So if you're consuming that content, there are lots of ways people are told that it is sponsored.
While having "ADVERTISEMENT" on the title may be a bit much, a tab on the video indicating a sponsorship, but imo it's perfectly fine as it is.
NinjamicWZ
Banned
I'm not committed to the "real journalism" vs "all youtubers are paid filthy casuals" land war because they can all have merit depending on the subject/quality/time of day... but for me personally? It's not a big deal, objectively, but I'm no fan of marketing powered radio and the cultural effect it's had on music either. Whether it's people who hang on every word a radio personality says when they set trends and tell people "music that our station partners don't profit off of and doesn't help push consumerism is wack... buy into the easily produced and marketed stuff they're investing in right now so you can be cool"... or it's old Clear Channel monopolies + FCC guidelines compounding each other to create an impenetrable, one-dimensional "pay to play" system that's competitively positioned to be all many people ever know and has generational influence on the artistic goals talented people strive for.
I'm also too old to really get mad about it or actively discriminate 100% of the time anymore, though. Can't control everything. Let the people who still have the passion and energy to write about the integrity of various mediums and platforms do it.
Yeah, in the first few seconds of the video they said straight up 'Techland sent us a pre-release code again.' For me, that's pretty clear, but they might want to make it clearer for people less informed.
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Most viewers do not read YouTube video descriptions. The disclosure can also be completely obscured by default if the video description is long enough.
It is to these companies' advantage to not have the viewers become aware that the videographer is sponsored.
This is akin to super fast, unreadable small text in commercials. Just another reason why the only trustworthy source of gaming news is GATHER YOUR PARTY, the best gaming site around! GATHER YOUR PARTY features independent gaming news that is awesome, and it's great to read and discuss with friends! GATHER YOUR PARTY is free, so check it out right now!
Haunted
Member
It's native advertising, and its inherent goal is to blur the lines between editorial and sponsored content - a line that used to be much more clear cut back in the day, until marketers realised (around 2009-2010) that this new generation of consumers using Adblock and being wise to the traditional ad model didn't really give a shit. They're encouraging these Youtube influencers to ride the line as far as possible without getting the FTC on their case. It's all shilling and viral marketing and astroturfing. Sometimes I think there's only actual ads left on internet sites targeted at a younger demographic because there's an older generation of clueless executives out there that still needs to be appeased. :lol
I've found that calling native advertising like this an underhanded practice intended to obfuscate and deceive, or just simply normal marketing practices that people should be accustomed to in 2016 completely depends on the level of cynicism/jadedness/realism/morality of the individual.
I've found that calling native advertising like this an underhanded practice intended to obfuscate and deceive, or just simply normal marketing practices that people should be accustomed to in 2016 completely depends on the level of cynicism/jadedness/realism/morality of the individual.
Haunted
Member
Kids are dumb.
It's not a question of whether or not the obfuscation of sponsoring works (it works) and whether or not people can actually be deceived into thinking these are genuine recommendations made by people they trust (they can), it's simply a question of do you want to protect dumb people or not.
Nah, I do it too.
-xXxDigitsxXx- ┻━┻ ︵ ¯(ツ
/¯ ︵ ┻━┻I was confused whether that was actually sponsored content or just taking advantage of a free code from Techland. Youtubers tend to get free codes from developers who just want attention rather than demanding straight up positive advertising in return. They also did a couple of videos on FFXIV and that was far more explicit that it was sponsored which is why I'm confused.
STO's business model is the worst business model i ever had to put up with. Unless you have conquered time prepare to pay to win or grind until your soul bleeds. The new zones were made purposefully difficult to encourage you to buy ships.
Yet, many times space combat is really fun.
As for Schreier i am glad there are people like him checking on this industry. A true reporter.
Yet, many times space combat is really fun.
As for Schreier i am glad there are people like him checking on this industry. A true reporter.
ebullientprism
Member
This is way worse than the rest of the nonsense. Any disclosure HAS to happen in the video itself. Hiding it in video description is bollocks.
