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Kotaku: The Story Behind Mass Effect: Andromeda's Troubled Five-Year Development
- Thread starter kulapik
- Start date
The article pretty much explains that, though. The animation team on Andromeda was understaffed and the story was being worked on till very late in production (and, obviously, you can only start animating a scene once it's been written and, if it's a voiced scene, once the lines have been recorded). Presumably, DAI didn't have those two problems and "only" had to deal with the issue of Frostbite's poor animation tools.
Rip mass effect
At least cyberpunk will fill the hole in scifi rpg.
And it'll be built with an engine designed for big-budget RPGs, too. I've seen a lot of explanations floated for TW3's ability to deliver a rich story with excellent production values within such a marvelous open world (lower salaries in Poland, fixed protagonist, CDPR being awesome, etc.). Judging by this article, their ability to use their own RPG-centric engine might have played a huge part (perhaps this was always obvious to people who know more about game development than I do). What would have happened to TW3 if it had been built in Frostbite? I shudder to think.
Square just said they are focusing on GaaS same with 2K. FWIW, all those publishers combined are nowhere close to EA. I would imagine that streamlining leads to a more efficient operation, hence why most businesses adopt this approach.
As much as I loathe fallout 4, Bethesda has been quite flexible in the way they develop they're IPs. And although they arent massive financial hits I think they are still relatively successful among their audience.
EA's incessant need to expand its audience with IPs ill suited for wide mass market appeal is widely known and at this point kind of expected. Heck if EA owned the Dark Souls IP I doubt we'dn ever be at game 3 by now, or if we were it would be a skyrim wanna be clone by now because "we have to chase those gaming trends even if it means by the time the game is made we are behind the curve again."
I don't think Cyberpunk actually has a fixed protagonist unless something changed.
digoutyoursoul
Member
This is games journalism
Credit to Kotaku
Credit to Kotaku
IXI FalcoN
Member
Fantastic read as always Jason.
So there's 2 key reasons this game failed:
1. Poor pre-production phase. Too much time wasted on procedural generating that was scrapped. Other core ideas didn't get off the ground early enough.
2. Frostbite. The engine just isn't suited for the game they were trying to make, and a lot of unnecessary time was spent trying to make it work. EA suits, who likely lack an understanding of game development, trying to shove every game onto Frostbite to save money is severely hampering game development for certain studios.
The most hilarious part of the article is Bioware Montreal figuring out that NMS was boring before NMS even launched.
So there's 2 key reasons this game failed:
1. Poor pre-production phase. Too much time wasted on procedural generating that was scrapped. Other core ideas didn't get off the ground early enough.
2. Frostbite. The engine just isn't suited for the game they were trying to make, and a lot of unnecessary time was spent trying to make it work. EA suits, who likely lack an understanding of game development, trying to shove every game onto Frostbite to save money is severely hampering game development for certain studios.
The most hilarious part of the article is Bioware Montreal figuring out that NMS was boring before NMS even launched.
AmayaPapaya
Banned
When everyone said they wanted the next game in the series to take place after ME3, they meant they wanted answers to all the questions the previous trilogy left behind, and to move forward. With Andromeda, they somehow managed to do none of that, and only deliver the technicality behind the answer. I would have much rather had the first contact war, if I had to choose between Andromeda's setting and that. Like everyone else, though, I would have rather just had a true sequel to the trilogy that moves forward, with the endings in mind, than one that tries to hide from it.
I feel really bad for the devs here, though. This game was just a perfect storm of everything that could go wrong. They were ambitious, and no one can fault them for that, but nothing was there to help them out if everything went wrong, like it did. I don't even know if EA could/should have realistically given them more time. The game was just a mess when they decided to do a complete 180, and needed to be redone at some basic levels. It would have required a ton of work. Shame. If it had come out just a few months earlier, we may be talking about a different story. Instead, it came out after both Horizon and BotW. Tough luck
I feel really bad for the devs here, though. This game was just a perfect storm of everything that could go wrong. They were ambitious, and no one can fault them for that, but nothing was there to help them out if everything went wrong, like it did. I don't even know if EA could/should have realistically given them more time. The game was just a mess when they decided to do a complete 180, and needed to be redone at some basic levels. It would have required a ton of work. Shame. If it had come out just a few months earlier, we may be talking about a different story. Instead, it came out after both Horizon and BotW. Tough luck
Ditto. They are chasing the mighty dollar. The games themselves are merely a vehicle to make money. Nothing more needs to be said. They won't make another ME if there is no opportunity for real growth, those resources can be better spend elsewhere.
SeanBoocock
Neo Member
One thing that I'd like to correct or at least add to from the article is that Frostbite does have an animation system "out of the box" namely ANT, which is EA's long standing in-house animation framework/system. ANT is very sophisticated and powerful, and has a decade plus of feature development by EA's sports teams. ANT has a steep learning curve and the team may have struggled moving to it, but it would be a misconception to say Frostbite doesn't have native animation support.
This is disappointing if true. :/
astroturfing
Member
yeah.. like Skate and Dead Space.
The franchise is dead
Yep. Only chance I see it coming back is if Dylan is itself a massive flop and failure.
Hawkeye 131
Member
Haven't finished the game yet myself however, I'm really enjoying it for the most part. Unfortunate to hear they had such a ridiculously hard time despite busting their asses for so long, I wouldn't wish that on anyone. Still a fan of BioWare and their in incredibly talented devs, perhaps a break is what the series/team needs.
Also credit to Schreier for more excellent reporting, keep up the great work sir!
Also credit to Schreier for more excellent reporting, keep up the great work sir!
I recognize you ...
Mirror's Edge
I don't see BioWare surviving a catastrophic failure of Dylan.
Why? If anything, another flop would just put Bioware even more in trouble.
One thing we can hope in the future(if Mass Effect is truly dead) is to get a spiritual successor after a bunch of ex-Bioware devs get together in another studio.
Dragon Age, despite the thoughts of this board, is still a successful series for Bioware and a large value for EA.
If Dylan bombs then Bioware would probably be scaled down to just doing SWTOR and Dragon Age.
Yeah, and now that I think about it... Dragon Age 2 was also a failure and despite that, Inquisition still is one of their better success.
I think it might be too early to put the axe in Mass Effect if even Dragon Age could recover from DA2, but it's gonna be a while before we see another.
I think "no EA" plays a pretty big role...
Scrotum Phillips
Member
Great, great read, but wow, just such a depressing story of this games development.
Man, what a hopeless feeling to be a part of that team. A very "green" game studio miraculously being given basically the "keys" to one of the most storied franchises and just the avalanche of shit and complications that followed. Just years and years wasted attempting to pound a square peg into a round hole. Then, when the game is "rushed" out, the problems they all knew extremely well that existed because of lack of resources and direction proved to be just so naked that memes and gifs were enough for many to dismiss the game outright.
I...just don't know what to do with Mass Effect. My favorite game franchise from last gen AND I'd honestly recommend Andromeda that I now think it's $40, but this game might have caused irreparable harm to this franchises status.
Like I said, you'll definitely get your $40 worth out of Andromeda if you decide to hop in now. But this game is just so nakedly dumb in some instances, that there should be a "how-to" guide in how to best enjoy Andromeda. Honestly, you could cut 60% of the content out of this game and it would be immensely better. It's like they just forgot to edit this game or something, it's crazy. In short if you're planning to play Andromeda, just basically ignore the "additional tasks" folder. It's basically all filler and lousy and distracts from the actual "meat" of the game, which some of it is very great.
Man, what a hopeless feeling to be a part of that team. A very "green" game studio miraculously being given basically the "keys" to one of the most storied franchises and just the avalanche of shit and complications that followed. Just years and years wasted attempting to pound a square peg into a round hole. Then, when the game is "rushed" out, the problems they all knew extremely well that existed because of lack of resources and direction proved to be just so naked that memes and gifs were enough for many to dismiss the game outright.
I...just don't know what to do with Mass Effect. My favorite game franchise from last gen AND I'd honestly recommend Andromeda that I now think it's $40, but this game might have caused irreparable harm to this franchises status.
Like I said, you'll definitely get your $40 worth out of Andromeda if you decide to hop in now. But this game is just so nakedly dumb in some instances, that there should be a "how-to" guide in how to best enjoy Andromeda. Honestly, you could cut 60% of the content out of this game and it would be immensely better. It's like they just forgot to edit this game or something, it's crazy. In short if you're planning to play Andromeda, just basically ignore the "additional tasks" folder. It's basically all filler and lousy and distracts from the actual "meat" of the game, which some of it is very great.
The difference is that Mass Effect has been put on ice, while DAI was in active pre-production already when DA2 went out.
Basileus777
Member
Why make a Mass Effect game when they could just have Bioware make a Star Wars title?
I'm not sure the audience for Mass Effect and Star Wars overlaps as much as you might assume..
Mr. Phellps
Member
This was an incredible read. Got me really tempted to buy the book and read about Inquisition's development, as that is a story of success rather than failure.
It's incredibly sad that Andromeda ended up like this. I was rather surprised by how Montreal thought Edmonton was trying to sabotage them or take over the game. I mean, they are the original creators of Mass Effect, they knew better and judging by the final product, Andromeda really lacked vision. It's a fun game, but even after Walter and Edmonton stepping in to help it, it's a game that pales in comparison to the original trilogy. It lacked personality.
No wonder it barely had any marketing campaign, EA wasn't going to invest the same kind of money on a game with such fate.
Dragon Age 2 was developed in little over a year, though. It was rushed and that's what caused its failures. Andromeda had a five-year development cycle.
It's incredibly sad that Andromeda ended up like this. I was rather surprised by how Montreal thought Edmonton was trying to sabotage them or take over the game. I mean, they are the original creators of Mass Effect, they knew better and judging by the final product, Andromeda really lacked vision. It's a fun game, but even after Walter and Edmonton stepping in to help it, it's a game that pales in comparison to the original trilogy. It lacked personality.
No wonder it barely had any marketing campaign, EA wasn't going to invest the same kind of money on a game with such fate.
Dragon Age 2 was developed in little over a year, though. It was rushed and that's what caused its failures. Andromeda had a five-year development cycle.
Basileus777
Member
The audience for Star Wars is far larger.
Not that I think you're mocking this statement but I'll reinforce it by saying it is absolutely valid, especially in the context that Bioware has talked about. Not that Bioware is considered good at animation generally, but as excuses go, its ok.
I just find it crazy that they literally tried to make the game into No Mans Sky.
Like, if they had spent the time they spent working on procedural generation software working on ACTUAL PLANETS instead they could have finished double what they actually did and the game would still have a big focus on exploration.
Not even sure what they were trying to accomplish by having 100's of planets. Like, you're a story based RPG, that is literally incompatible with procedural generation.
VincentMatts
Member
Theyve never had a massive animation problem before, its only when they brought on montreal that animations started becoming a problem. I mean, as you get bigger you get more people, i get it. Bioware is bigger and more people doesnt necessarily = best talent. They hired the best available people for Montreal which clearly wasnt good enough. The problem with this game is who made it. The whole montreal studio is to blame.
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
This story is weird, it's like they kept trying to fuck that chicken (spaceflight, procedural generation, etc) instead of focusing on things that would be more interesting.
Who needed a Mass Effect game with like 300 hours of content? The prior games were 30 hours long.
Who needed a Mass Effect game with like 300 hours of content? The prior games were 30 hours long.
Mr. Phellps
Member
Yeah, they clearly lacked focus. And they also realized too late that hundreds of planets with nothing important in them was not fun. They prioritized quantity over quality.
The article mentions ANT was added after the game was already in production (or pre-production anyway).
Alpha Phoenix
Member
Mr. Cooper called it:
ThatGuyfromMars
Neo Member
As someone who loves the hell out of Andromeda and all of it's issues, it just makes me even more downed that the team were going to fix the issues in Andromeda 2, since they'd understand Frostbyte better and have a more clear vision for a sequel, however EA shut down those ideas by shelving that series, Thanks EA.
All I can really hope for now is if EA has them do some DLC for the game to tie up those loose story threads in Andromeda, since they're obviously not going to go back to it, but I'm not holding my breath.
All I can really hope for now is if EA has them do some DLC for the game to tie up those loose story threads in Andromeda, since they're obviously not going to go back to it, but I'm not holding my breath.
VincentMatts
Member
Its not just that. When some games ship, you can tell that there was clear problems during development. Like Destiny. But the core in that game was so good that people kept playing the game despite its problems.
With ME, it was just bad overall. Even the core sucked. Thats a massive screw up. Its one thing to have bugs or missing good content. The game is still somewhat enjoyable that way. Its an entirely different story when the core of the game itself isnt even that good on top of all the other problems.
The core is the first thing that should be nailed in any game, and they failed.
Dragon Age Inquisition had female characters walking like gorillas in cutscenes
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
That's 100% false but ok....
Last I checked Shinobi isn't a reviewer, you don't know how mock reviews work.
What appealing IPs is EA even going to have left soon?
They've basically managed to destroy every single IP that they have through their meddling and mismanagement. Crysis, Dragon Age, Dead Space, Mirror's Edge, Mass Effect, Old Republic, Battlefront, etc - all ground down into total mediocrity.
I mean, Battlefield 1 was decent and so was Titanfall 2 I guess, but there are just so many genres that they aren't even attempting to compete in anymore (basically every genre other than online FPS games), and yet somehow they manage to step on their own toes by screwing up major titles or releasing similar games way too close together.
Really frustrating to watch, especially in an era where the tech is in place to take those IPs and do something really cool and amazing with them.
They've basically managed to destroy every single IP that they have through their meddling and mismanagement. Crysis, Dragon Age, Dead Space, Mirror's Edge, Mass Effect, Old Republic, Battlefront, etc - all ground down into total mediocrity.
I mean, Battlefield 1 was decent and so was Titanfall 2 I guess, but there are just so many genres that they aren't even attempting to compete in anymore (basically every genre other than online FPS games), and yet somehow they manage to step on their own toes by screwing up major titles or releasing similar games way too close together.
Really frustrating to watch, especially in an era where the tech is in place to take those IPs and do something really cool and amazing with them.
They knew people would react negatively to at least some of it because the animation issues had been pointed out by everyone late last year when the trailer hit. It's also kind of disappointing they were hoping for a score of around 80 when Mass Effect, when done right, can be so much better than that.
ItsTheNew
I believe any game made before 1997 is "essentially cave man art."
How's the new assassins creed?
VincentMatts
Member
well im talking till ME3. After that, i didnt play any of their games other than MEA and The old republic online.
I don't see DA2 and MEA as very similar beyond being very flawed.
DA2 actually has very clear vision and focus, just not enough development time allotted by EA.
MEA had unclear vision and focus and was given enough time by EA only for that time to be squandered by said lack of cohesion.
This article also explains why MEA felt so safe. Once everything creative and ambitious fell through BW had to scramble to piece together a game that they knew how to make.
DA2 actually has very clear vision and focus, just not enough development time allotted by EA.
MEA had unclear vision and focus and was given enough time by EA only for that time to be squandered by said lack of cohesion.
This article also explains why MEA felt so safe. Once everything creative and ambitious fell through BW had to scramble to piece together a game that they knew how to make.