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[netBuff]

I'm with most in while that is sensible I don't expect devs to spend time to make those features really pop. On a nintendo platform only except a few handfuls of devs to take time to take advantage of what it offers.

Thats not delusion you're just hoping for the very unlikely.



If a port like NFS: Most wanted can show decent improvents in fps performane, lighting, and texturing that it becomes a mixture of a console and pc port than that is damn good for machine that supposedly is barely just more powerfu than the hd twins. They did port in a few months which shows it's not hard to really work with the system and see what it can do. Certain devs won't bother or won't be given resources to exploit this system like they should be when making products.

Need for Speed: Most Wanted shows exactly the kind of improvements to be expected from running on a console that is barely more powerful: Some improved textures, framerate a tad more stable. Some different effects may be a factor of differing design choices, not due to technical impossibility on PS360.

wiiu is in the same competition with ps4 and 720.

Not at this point.

 

[NotLiquid]

Hooked up to 50"+ televisions in Best Buy, Frys, Costco and other places... you really think that the general public won't notice a difference between Wii U and the PS420?

I'm sure they'll notice the difference. The question is whether the casual consumer or the common parent will feel that difference is worth +$399 of their disposable income at launch this time around.

 

[Starfish Hero]

Not at this point.

Because the Wii U is the only one released of the three.

 

[Maxrunner]

$400. Want to wager?

Lolololol...i do hope youre right...

 

[AOC83]

If this is true then why did the PS60 combo get off to such a bad start this gen?

High prices, poor lineup (PS3), most people didn´t have a HD TV etc. In addition to that the PS2 was still in full swing 2005/2006, the generation wasn´t dragged out as long as the current one.

 

[SmokedMeat]

If this is true then why did the PS60 combo get off to such a bad start this gen? Could people not tell that they were big improvements over the previous gen? And why did they suddenly take off and become successful a few years ago? Did they suddenly become more powerful or were people blind before?

The HD systems are successful now because they have the libraries of games that people want to play.

I think it has more to do with system costs coming down. The desire to own an "HD" system was always there, but the cost was a prohibiting factor for many. It will be the same for PS4 and Durango, as it's been for every previous console ever.
As prices fall, more people jump in. Xbox 360 sold over one million units in the US during the holidays. It wasn't because the games suddenly showed up, it was because the prices/deals were more in reach with what consumers were willing to spend.

Look at the 3DS. The games were barely there, but when that price dropped $80 POW! Sales skyrocketed.

 

[Antagon]

Personally I think it was foolish to pump so much money into a controller. Cool or not, it's the sole reason the system is as expensive as it is, and in a console first, you can't go to a store and purchase/use a second one. It's really crazy if you ask me.

Had they gone with a more powerful system akin to what we expect from a next gen system I think a lot of gamers would've been estatic. With free online and whatnot, only a fool would be knocking it as "Gamecube 2".

I'd reckon that the majority of PS3/XBOX360 owners would say something along the lines of 'cool', and wait for the next Sony/Microsoft console to be released.

 

[Beer Monkey]

The thing is that companies *needed* that additional space for multi language support. That hacking groups were able to create smaller ISOs by deleting movies and language files doesn't mean that Nintendo made the right decision with those proprietary mini DVDs. Those files were put on the DVD for a reason. Any reduction in disk space comes with challenges for devs - or additional costs if the only way out is a multi-disc game.

I didn't say that Nintendo made the right decision with their disc size. But yeah, I'm saying it wasn't really a major factor of how much developer support they got.

Multi-language support often gets tossed under the bus and varies from title to title for a given publisher. It's convenient to use the same disc in several countries but sometimes it just doesn't work out.

There's simply no evidence whatsoever that the smaller disc size caused much damage to publisher/developer support on the Gamecube.

 

[Jburton]

If this is true then why did the PS60 combo get off to such a bad start this gen? Could people not tell that they were big improvements over the previous gen? And why did they suddenly take off and become successful a few years ago? Did they suddenly become more powerful or were people blind before?

The HD systems are successful now because they have the libraries of games that people want to play. Earlier this gen casual/motion/music games were popular and the Wii was home to these types of games and it thrived. The last few years those types of games lost popularity and were replaced by online shooters and action games and the PS360 was the perfect home for those experiences. I can't stress enough that most people (not all) care very little about what's in the box as long as it entertains them. I would have thought that this last gen would have taught everyone that if nothing else.

Revisionist nonsense, early this gen only Nintendo had motion control and that sold to mostly those who never bought a games console ever, to call it popular, as in the dominant type of gaming is false ......... it was a fad.

Also I don't remember anyone stating that the 360 was a disaster in its first few years.

Sales have jumped the last few years because the price got cheaper allowing more and more to join in.

Call of Duty 4 launched 2007, very much at the start of this gen .......... this has been the generation where pc online gaming arrived on the home console and exploded, so much so that developers now make a deal of it to state they have a single player component.



The HD twins are successful due to games, technology and the new online, connected community aspect of games ......... Call of Duty displays this beautifully.


Also don't discount the core helping to create the positive buzz around a new console that feeds out into the world.

 

[AstroNut325]

I'm sure they'll notice the difference. The question is whether the casual consumer or the common parent will feel that difference is worth +$399 of their disposable income at launch this time around.

The gaming largest demographic are gamers in their 20s and 30s. This number has only been steadily increasing over the years. Why is there so much importance placed on "parents buying for their kids"?

 

[Etnos]

Not shocking.. Was Nintendo expecting everyone to hold back/scale down their tech, just to be in their dated platform?

I feel for Nintendo I have a soft spot for them.. but they seem out of touch nowadays, they need to face the reality: The casual market is in smartphones/tablets. I have no numbers, but it would seem that Nintendo hardcore fans wont be enough to keep the Wii-U alive.

Time will tell.

 

[Gleethor]

I'd reckon that the majority of PS3/XBOX360 owners would say something along the lines of 'cool', and wait for the next Sony/Microsoft console to be released.

Exactly. Nintendo would be no better off.

 

[kingkaiser]

Personally I think it was foolish to pump so much money into a controller. Cool or not, it's the sole reason the system is as expensive as it is, and in a console first, you can't go to a store and purchase/use a second one. It's really crazy if you ask me.

Well, now we know but I think it was a risk worth trying. Actually Nintendo is doomed...doomed to be different and invent new ways to play, just because they have no real chance in a direct competition against MS and Sony.

Had they gone with a more powerful system akin to what we expect from a next gen system I think a lot of gamers would've been estatic. With free online and whatnot, only a fool would be knocking it as "Gamecube 2".

The Dreamcast example says otherwise. Maybe you can excite people this way for the first two years, but then your almighty competitors are going to smack you with even more powerful tech.

 

[Jburton]

The gaming largest demographic are gamers in their 20s and 30s. This number has only been steadily increasing over the years. Why is there so much importance placed on "parents buying for their kids"?

Nintendo mostly sells to kids / parents of kids, most in their 20's and 30's would not have one.

 

[LCGeek]

the first two years, but then your almighty competitors are going to smack you with even more powerful tech.

Tech and sony politics played a part of PS2 rise. DC like GC sucking in storage space made sony rise in that era so easy. Once ea and rockstar sided with the playstation it was all over.

Nintendo mostly sells to kids / parents of kids, most in their 20's and 30's would not have one.

Yet this is not the case for snes, nes, or wii. Nintendo systems when they sell bad do that when they do well everyone is jumping down on it fiercely. You don't sell nearly 90mil plus console to only the groups you mentioned and lets not argue demographics when we know what were for Wii.

 

[ascii42]

I'm sure they'll notice the difference. The question is whether the casual consumer or the common parent will feel that difference is worth +$399 of their disposable income at launch this time around.

If they are reasonably set on buying something, it only has to be worth the difference in price between WiiU and the other two systems.

 

[SmokedMeat]

I'm sure they'll notice the difference. The question is whether the casual consumer or the common parent will feel that difference is worth +$399 of their disposable income at launch this time around.

Let me give you a famous line used by parents - "Save your money up".

 

[Kimawolf]

Revisionist nonsense, early this gen only Nintendo had motion control and that sold to mostly those who never bought a games console ever, to call it popular, as in the dominant type of gaming is false ......... it was a fad.

Also I don't remember anyone stating that the 360 was a disaster in its first few years.

Sales have jumped the last few years because the price got cheaper allowing more and more to join in.

Call of Duty 4 launched 2007, very much at the start of this gen .......... this has been the generation where pc online gaming arrived on the home console and exploded, so much so that developers now make a deal of it to state they have a single player component.



The HD twins are successful due to games, technology and the new online, connected community aspect of games ......... Call of Duty displays this beautifully.


Also don't discount the core helping to create the positive buzz around a new console that feeds out into the world.

How could it had been a fad when it lasted the entire generation? And no both 360 and PS3 started off to poor sales all around. It's pretty easy information to find, sales in 2005, 2006 and 2007. Where do you think the "wait till 2008, 2009, 2010" memes came from?

 

[ColdBlooder]

They are obviously not going to know the "hardware specs", rather when you see the graphics on the TV advertising the new consoles and then you see a Wii U game .......... it's going to look like yesterday's shit.


Kids see displays in stores, or adverts and they will be able to see the new power with their own eyes, Wii U looks old already.

Yeah just like they did with the Wii

And awesome that you already know how outdated the next 3D Mario, Zelda, etc. looks.

 

[BlackJace]

Nintendo mostly sells to kids / parents of kids, most in their 20's and 30's would not have one.

Do you have any numbers to back this up?

 

[Log4Girlz]

Need for Speed: Most Wanted shows exactly the kind of improvements to be expected from running on a console that is barely more powerful: Some improved textures, framerate a tad more stable. Some different effects may be a factor of differing design choices, not due to technical impossibility on PS360.

Precisely. If the Wii U had any real horsepower it would run it at 1080 p or 720 p at 60 fps. It also only features PC textures and not the PC car models.

You would have to butcher UE4 console code to run on the Wii U.

 

[NotLiquid]

The gaming largest demographic are gamers in their 20s and 30s. This number has only been steadily increasing over the years. Why is there so much importance placed on "parents buying for their kids"?

Because that's a very general demographic not necessarily comprised of a hardcore audience. Most of that audience will probably be there on launch. After that, there's no telling what happens next.

Sure, you and I might care about Killzone looking better than ever. But it's been said before here even, we're a niche. On top of that, games like Killzone were never that much of a super seller to begin with and if you ask me I think it looking slightly prettier will do little to change that.

For the record, I'm not speaking this from the perspective that Wii U is a better deal, because I think that console is better of focusing to simply be a different deal at this point. I'm just skeptical about the necessity the PS4 will place for people around it's first half year or so if it's value is merely judged by the tech numbers.

 

[AstroNut325]

Do you have any numbers to back this up?

Don't know about numbers but I will get a Wii U for my son when he turns 2 years old (next year).

 

[Mithos]

Need for Speed: Most Wanted shows exactly the kind of improvements to be expected from running on a console that is barely more powerful: Some improved textures, framerate a tad more stable. Some different effects may be a factor of differing design choices, not due to technical impossibility on PS360.

It's awesome what developers can do when they give a damn, and in that short time they did it too, when was it they started on the Wii U version, in late December/early January?

I wonder what a game could run/look like on a 6-7 year long optimized/tweaked game-engine.

 

[axisofweevils]

They are obviously not going to know the "hardware specs", rather when you see the graphics on the TV advertising the new consoles and then you see a Wii U game .......... it's going to look like yesterday's shit.


Kids see displays in stores, or adverts and they will be able to see the new power with their own eyes, Wii U looks old already.

The graphics won't be a big deal this time round. The Wii U, PS4 and Durango will all be HD consoles. Diminishing returns. We've reached the point where even GAFers are debating whether the PS4 graphics shown at the Sony conference were much of a leap.

 

[Shion]

I'm sure they'll notice the difference. The question is whether the casual consumer or the common parent will feel that difference is worth +$399 of their disposable income at launch this time around.

Core gamers will drive the sales early in next-gen, this was always the case anyway.

More people will follow as quality games release and hardware prices get lower.

People will, eventually, invest in the new consoles to play the next-gen version of Call of Duty, FIFA etc.

 

[BlackJace]

Don't know about numbers but I will get a Wii U for my son when he turns 2 years old (next year).

Wonderful. Hopefully it has games by then.
I think some people confuse Ninty's "everyone" demographic with "everyone younger than 16", though.

 

[netBuff]

It's awesome what developers can do when they give a damn, and in that short time they did it too, what was it they started on the Wii U version in later December/early January?

I wonder what a game could run/look like on a 6-7 year long optimized/tweaked game-engine.

It probably would look pretty similar. And hoping for slightly better looking games on the Wii U when massively more powerful consoles are around the corner seems strange.

 

[kingkaiser]

Tech and sony politics played a part of PS2 rise. DC like GC sucking in storage space made sony rise in that era so easy. Once ea and rockstar sided with the playstation it was all over.

Yes, but the "sucking in storage space" back in the day equals the "sucking in online gaming and multimedia" now and especially in the coming gen.

I don't think Nintendo will ever have a real chance to overtake their competitors in this regard.

 

[AOC83]

The graphics won't be a big deal this time round. The Wii U, PS4 and Durango will all be HD consoles. Diminishing returns. We've reached the point where even GAFers are debating whether the PS4 graphics shown at the Sony conference were much of a leap.

Not this shit again...

 

[ymmv]

Do you have any numbers to back this up?

http://gamer.blorge.com/2009/02/19/how-the-wii-ps3-and-xbox-360-appeal-to-different-demographics/

NHow the Wii, PS3, and Xbox 360 appeal to different demographics
February 19, 2009
by Dave Parrack

How the Wii, PS3, and Xbox 360 appeal to different demographicsIt doesn’t take a genius to work out that each of the three current-gen home consoles appeals to different sets of people. The Wii, PS3, and Xbox 360 are all very different propositions, and the age and gender mix that play them varies greatly. And now, those user patterns have been mapped to give a clear picture of the different consoles’ diverse user bases.

There are many things that can influence our choice of video games console, from the games that are available on it, to brand loyalty, peer pressure, and even clever marketing. As I’ve opined before, I consider the current-gen to offer the most diverse range of consoles for the widest demographic ever seen on home consoles.

Nielsen Media Research tried to prove the point by tracking usage data by age and gender for all three of the home consoles. Over the course of October to December, 2008, console activity in all National TV Panel homes was measured, and the results are interesting if not very predictable.

Nintendo Wii

The Wii, which is by far the bestselling home console of this generation, appeals mainly to males aged between six and 11, and females aged between 25 and 34. Women over the age of 35 use the Wii much more than either the PS3 or Xbox 360. Which would kind of explain how Wii Fit continues to top the all-format charts month after month.

Microsoft Xbox 360

The Xbox 360, currently sitting in a very comfortable second place in terms of sales, appeals mainly to males aged between 12 and 17, and females aged between 25 and 34. This seems like a bizarre mix but the younger age range for boys could explain the level of petty whining and douchebaggery on display over Xbox Live.

Sony PS3

The PS3 generally seems to appeal to the older generation, with no young kids anywhere in the mix. This could just be because the Sony machine is so damn expensive that kids are still saving up their pocket money for one. Both males and females saw the largest usage amongst the 18 to 24 age range. This is considered the hardcore range where gamers play more games and for longer than any other age range.

The most telling statistic to emerge from this survey is that the Wii is by far the least used console, despite being installed in the most homes. This confirms a thought I’ve had for a long time now: the Wii is a short-lived novelty only brought out for partie

 

[Ninja Scooter]

The graphics won't be a big deal this time round. The Wii U, PS4 and Durango will all be HD consoles. Diminishing returns. We've reached the point where even GAFers are debating whether the PS4 graphics shown at the Sony conference were much of a leap.

People said this same shit at the start of last gen.

 

[netBuff]

The graphics won't be a big deal this time round. The Wii U, PS4 and Durango will all be HD consoles. Diminishing returns. We've reached the point where even GAFers are debating whether the PS4 graphics shown at the Sony conference were much of a leap.

You're being ridiculous.

Don't know about numbers but I will get a Wii U for my son when he turns 2 years old (next year).

A game console for a two year old? Are you sure you aren't just buying for yourself? That seems absurd.

 

[Syphon Filter]

People said this same shit at the start of last gen.

yea HD doesnt mean much,xbox 1 could do 720p.

 

[KageMaru]

There's simply no evidence whatsoever that the smaller disc size caused much damage to publisher/developer support on the Gamecube.

It would help if we knew the sizes of games last gen, but even games that were supposed to be super large (such as GTA:VC) ended up being only 1.5GB IIRC.

 

[AstroNut325]

You're being ridiculous.



A game console for a two year old? Are you sure you aren't just buying for yourself? That seems absurd.

1. I agree. That notion that graphics are now at diminishing returns point is simply not true.
2. I was joking! I don't plan to get the Wii U until my son is at least 4 or 5. Until then... my iPad 2 is more than sufficient!

 

[Jburton]

The graphics won't be a big deal this time round. The Wii U, PS4 and Durango will all be HD consoles. Diminishing returns. We've reached the point where even GAFers are debating whether the PS4 graphics shown at the Sony conference were much of a leap.

I'm sorry but you are talking silly.

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

Yeah just like they did with the Wii

And awesome that you already know how outdated the next 3D Mario, Zelda, etc. looks.

I pray to god that understand the difference of the two scenarios:

Wii to PS3 and 360

WiiU to PS4 and 720

Hint: One of them actually had an idea that appealed to casuals.

 

[netBuff]

It would help if we knew the sizes of games last gen, but even games that were supposed to be super large (such as GTA:VC) ended up being only 1.5GB IIRC.

Wasn't that Vice City Stories? I think Vice City was somewhere in the 2,8GB range.

 

[BlackJace]

http://gamer.blorge.com/2009/02/19/how-the-wii-ps3-and-xbox-360-appeal-to-different-demographics/

That's only gen 7, though. My point was that Nintendo aims to draw all demographics to their consoles. The "kiddie" argument really only came around this gen.

 

[Beer Monkey]

The graphics won't be a big deal this time round. The Wii U, PS4 and Durango will all be HD consoles. Diminishing returns. We've reached the point where even GAFers are debating whether the PS4 graphics shown at the Sony conference were much of a leap.

This should be a banned meme by now.

I'm playing Bioshock Inifinite on a rig that craps on 360 and PS3 right now, and we've still got fucking 2D textures for shit like grass and rosebush hedges, and rigid cloth that cannot budge. There's not a game I've ever played where I don't notice elements that have been compromised for performance sake, and that's leaving out stuff like physics which have SO far to go right now (hell, semi-realistic hair can be a performance killer - see TressFX - and all hair and all cloth and so on should be modeled this way).

We have a long way to go.

 

[metalslimer]

That's only gen 7, though. My point was that Nintendo aims to draw all demographics to their consoles. The "kiddie" argument really only came around this gen.

You definitely have not been paying attention then.

 

[SmokedMeat]

Well, now we know but I think it was a risk worth trying. Actually Nintendo is doomed...doomed to be different and invent new ways to play, just because they have no real chance in a direct competition against MS and Sony.

The Dreamcast example says otherwise. Maybe you can excite people this way for the first two years, but then your almighty competitors are going to smack you with even more powerful tech.

I think Dreamcast is a bad comparison. Having killed all of their poorly supported post Genesis systems early consumers had moved on, and weren't going to be duped into another dead end Sega console. They were waiting for PS2, because Sony previously delivered an incredible console and it was clear publishers already had their eggs in that basket.

Nintendo is not Sega. While it's a given not everyone would be jumping onboard, I do think Nintendo would've found better success is they focused on more powerful hardware as opposed to a fancy new controller. I mean, ANYTHING would've been better at this point.

 

[BlackJace]

You definitely have not been paying attention then.

The purple lunchbox? Yeah, I heard that a few times, but definitely not as much as I've heard babby and kiddie thrown around nowadays.

 

[Steroyd]

If this is true then why did the PS60 combo get off to such a bad start this gen? Could people not tell that they were big improvements over the previous gen? And why did they suddenly take off and become successful a few years ago? Did they suddenly become more powerful or were people blind before?

Define "bad start" because if I'm not mis-remembering events, as much as the Wii console sold gangbusters, the Xbox 360 was killing it in game sales and a high attatch rate.

---

To me the problem Nintendo have always had, is that their console is secondary that sits nicely alongside the Playstation or Xbox, whereas Xbox and Playstation are pretty much cannibalizing each other for attention at being the number one used console in the living room. This is a big reason why I think third party games have a problem getting sold on Nintendo home consoles in general.

 

[CrunchinJelly]

The graphics won't be a big deal this time round. The Wii U, PS4 and Durango will all be HD consoles. Diminishing returns. We've reached the point where even GAFers are debating whether the PS4 graphics shown at the Sony conference were much of a leap.

Diminishing returns? A lot of games are not even 720p and a steady 30fps on these consoles.

I mean, diminishing returns? What?

 

[KageMaru]

Wasn't that Vice City Stories? I think Vice City was somewhere in the 2,8GB range.

I might be, I'm honestly not too sure. I just recall a claim going around, early this gen, stating it filled up an entire DVD9 when that was far from the truth.

 

[SmokedMeat]

How could it had been a fad when it lasted the entire generation?

The generation didn't end yet. Motion gaming was most certainly a fad. Somebody should send Microsoft the memo btw.

 

[metalslimer]

The purple lunchbox? Yeah, I heard that a few times, but definitely not as much as I've heard babby and kiddie thrown around nowadays.

It was even more prominent in the GC era especially with WW reveal. The Wii definitely got less kiddy remarks due to appealing to older people.

 

[Shion]

My point was that Nintendo aims to draw all demographics to their consoles.

They really don't.

And that's precisely their problem since the N64.