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[bigdaddygamebot]

Spoiler

Phelps dies. He manages to corner the arsonist at a water treatment plant, who turns out to be the flamethrower guy from his old army unit. Phelps helps Kelso, his old army rival turned detective partner, to save his broad from a large wave, but he sacrifices himself in the process to save them. The game literally ends during his funeral.

I'm so glad I didn't play that game to the end.

 

[Totobeni]

LA Noire wins in the story department and this is most certainly a fact.

LA Noire and Heavy Rain stories are like a poop and piss, so whoever win it's very bad.

 

[Riposte]

I'd say 999, but then I'm afraid Amir0x might yell at me.

Looks like I got the censored version of 999 :/

EDIT: 999 is about +50 puzzles too many to be a visual novel.

 

[The Technomancer]

I haven't said anything about the quality of 999 ever.

Oh, really? I thought I remembered you being like "fuck that game" once.

 

[HK-47]

Story telling. The open-ended level design that allowed you to pretty much talk to everyone and have (the illusion of) the ability to do anything within the confines of the interface. The linear but branching narrative that seemed to react to even the smallest and slightest of your decisions, like walking into the ladies' bathroom.

It was an exciting glimpse into a future of videogames that never actually arrived.

It did. It was called Bloodlines. It actually had good storytelling and fucking amazing dialogue in addition to letting the player that same degree of control over the story.

 

[Domcorleone]

ah so yet another Heavy Rain fan who not only can't defend the game against any legitimate criticism, but falls back to the old vapid standby: "IT MADE ME FEEL EMOTIONZ AND STUFF CUZ I SHUT MY BRAINZ DOWN"

oh when will my search for a Heavy Rain fan with backbone end

Ok we get your point you dont like the game. whogivesashit.gif Other people are entitled to enjoy what they enjoy just leave it be. Everything you said in your post I pretty much agreed with but I dont agree with how you get mad at people that dont agree with you.I have seen you in a few threads before and I see you get at other members for their opinions and I dont think it is particularly fair... I can see a debate, but I feel it goes too far sometimes when the person comes off as condescending.

As for the games in the OP, I though HR was cool, I thought the storyline was interesting at first then got progressively worse, terrible voice acting, great music. I liked the gameplay mechanics and would like to see it more games of that genre for consoles. I dont think David Cage is a good writer at all, in fact he is terrible. LA Noire on the other hand I feel should have probably been an interactive fiction, because I feel the gameplay in the game is pretty bad, with the exception of the interrogation and investigation parts. A heavy rain approach to the game could have given it a more tight direction gameplay wise IMO. LA Noire is a better game from what I played (15 hrs in) no question. Acting, dialogue, music, storyline all better easily.

 

[kaizoku]

this is actually something I feel very strongly about as a massive fan of these adventure games (harking back to the point and click type adventure game). Boiled down:

Accumulating items -> solving puzzles -> progress through narrative. This is not a checklist, it is a chain.

So I don't feel either game really falls into the adventure category nicely because basically I never once felt like I solved a puzzle.

Heavy Rain is more like an interactive experience. I loved it, it made me react in ways no other game ever has, I felt like my decisions had weight, and each one was never clear cut. It made me panic, it made me nervous and there was one moment where I made a conscious decision to do one thing only for the game to make me involuntarily do the other. That was gaming magic for me right there. It induced a reaction from me both physically, mentally and emotionally. I have never ever had a game make me think "oh shit what the fuck have I just done? I can't believe I just did that" until HR and I haven't had it since. One of my favourite games of the generation despite all its flaws.

LA Noire on the other hand is trying to be an interactive movie crossed with GTA. You can see the acting, the voice, faces and acting are great and its a great gimmick for awhile. It also seems to follow the adventure game trope closely on the surface, but I found myself frustrated when I dug deeper, I decided its not actually an adventure game at all.

LA Noire is like a glamorous treasure hunt. You have an inventory of items, but you don't do anything with them, all they do is open up new narrative options, which is already wrapped up in a glorified rock paper scissor mechanic. Then you kinda realise that the interactive movie isnt actually that interactive, it just asks you to perform a treasure hunt between scenes and sometimes you miss some scenes out cos you missed something or did something in the wrong order.

and thats a big beef with LA Noire, it constantly tells you you're getting it wrong, and when you do know you're doing it wrong, you cant go back and correct it, you're then funnelled down a path until you restart.

See with adventure games if you dont get it right you don't progress. With adventure-like games if you dont get it right your choices influence the outcome. With LA Noire, it just means you didn't find everything so your score is lower, which imo has to be one of the worst gaming mechanics to base overall success on

Also comparing LA Noire to Phoenix Wright, I get so much more satisfaction and joy from interrogations in PW. I feel like I actually have to think and analyse things in order to solve a crime. In LA Noire its given to me on plate.

and how does this compare to Heavy Rain? You dont have an inventory there, but you do have puzzles. The way you interact with people, the things you do or dont do and the things you say or dont say, they're puzzles, its like the current scene is one big puzzle. If you get things wrong it screws something up, your actions and choices have consequences and you never really if you got it wrong. There's no fucking star rating or stupid chime when you get it wrong - all you're left with is a "hmm I wonder if I could have done things differently". Figuring out the differently is a puzzle.

Anyway its late and I'm waffling so signing out.

 

[Crash Station]

If you liked Heavy Rain, you'll near enough anything that has pretensions to interactive storytelling, terrible or not, so yes, by default you'll like L.A. Noire.

For what it's worth, I enjoyed my time with L.A. Noire, even if it isn't everything it should be. Can't say the same for Heavy Rain at all.

Don't have to be a jerk about it :/

What I liked about HR was how tense it was. If L.A. Noire is like that, I'll get it makes greatest hits.

Any otakus here to list how many hentai adv games are better than Heavy Rain? I am pretty sure there has got to be a few.

Saya no Uta is definitely better written than 99% of games out there, but I don't really think many people could or would get off to it considering how fucked up the sex scenes are when you think about it...

 

[HK-47]

Ever watched a David Lynch movie? Ever felt any kind of emotion or empathy for the characters even though they're in very strange circumstances? And I guess those plotlines always make perfect sense?

I give the game props for the scenes it was able to produce, such as the ones I listed. I'm not defending the overall narrative, or saying the investigations were realistic or what have you. I'm saying it kept me interested, engaged, and in touch with some of the characters throughout, including some very high points. That and I don't have time for a thousand word posts breaking down every system - that's not how I'd appreciate a game like Heavy Rain anyhow. Its about moments, not how it looks when you spread it all out and analyze it.

Did you really try to compare Cage and Lynch?

Thats fucking hilarious

See the movie closest to HR is actually one of the later Saw movies after the series really went to shit.

 

[Amir0x]

Ever watched a David Lynch movie? Ever felt any kind of emotion or empathy for the characters even though they're in very strange circumstances? And I guess those plotlines always make perfect sense?

Uh, yes? They don't have massive plot holes and they're usually brilliantly written AND directed AND acted? Holy moses. They're practically the antithesis of Heavy Rain.

Are YOU David Cage?

I give the game props for the scenes it was able to produce, such as the ones I listed. I'm not defending the overall narrative, or saying the investigations were realistic or what have you. I'm saying it kept me interested, engaged, and in touch with some of the characters throughout, including some very high points. That and I don't have time for a thousand word posts breaking down every system - that's not how I'd appreciate a game like Heavy Rain anyhow. Its about moments, not how it looks when you spread it all out and analyze it.

Yes it's about moments. How do you connect to a story?

Let me be as blunt about this as I can be. There is only one way to connect to a story like this - that is through the writing. If every single aspect of the writing is bad, every single aspect of the plot is broke... how were you able to invest your self in these scenes? The answer is you shut your brain off.

Let me pose it another way. If you were able to connect on an emotional level to a story and plot this poorly written, with characters this atrocious and scenes so telegraphed that they actually ended up being more comical that tense, what is there for ANYONE you "recommend" this game for to actually take your word on?

You've essentially just admitted that you will like any garbage thrown your way since you have no critical faculties.

Ok we get your point you dont like the game. whogivesashit.gif Other people are entitled to enjoy what they enjoy just leave it be. Everything you said in your post I pretty much agreed with but I dont agree with how you get mad at people that dont agree with you.I have seen you in a few threads before and I see you get at other members for their opinions and I dont think it is particularly fair... I can see a debate, but I feel it goes too far sometimes when the person comes off as condescending.

Touch shit. I get to be condescending when people call me out and then refuse to at all to defend their own position. You don't get to do that. It's disrespectful and insulting to everyone involved who actually puts effort into their posts.

 

[xbhaskarx]

http://i.imgur.com/WegJb.gif

What am I looking at here...

 

[Inflammable Slinky]

Did you really try to compare Cage and Lynch?

Thats fucking hilarious

See the movie closest to HR is actually one of the later Saw movies after the series really went to shit.

Yeah I don't think HR tries to alienate the viewer from the movie like Lynch does. It's shit so it just comes off like that.

 

[Snuggles]

It did. It was called Bloodlines. It actually had good storytelling and fucking amazing dialogue in addition to letting the player that same degree of control over the story.

I'm just now playing Bloodlines for the first time. Incredible game <3, both the games in this thread's title are entirely insignificant in comparison.

It's sad to think that we've gone backwards as we've moved forwards through time. They definitely don't make em like that anymore.

 

[Rahxephon91]

LA Noire and Heavy Rain stories are like a poop and piss, so whoever win it's very bad.

It really is'nt and most of your complaints I read about it are just made up. Phelps has no character? All of his conversations with his partners tell you his character. He's a hardass who follows the law to a T, because thats we believes. He's trying to be stand up individual to a T, but he actually is kind of fake.

 

[Suairyu]

It did. It was called Bloodlines. It actually had good storytelling and fucking amazing dialogue in addition to letting the player that same degree of control over the story.

I admit, I am yet to play it. It's on the list. But having one game actually achieve Deus Ex's bright promised future isn't the same as that future arriving, you dig?

 

[chubigans]

One, I liked the open world. I have no issue with this aspect whatsoever. It was hugely atmospheric, fun to traverse and filled with sights and sounds. Like Mafia II, it's not filled with boring little mini-games or sidequests. it is there specifically to heighten the experience of being a detective and actually performing your duties in the context of L.A. This is incredibly appealing as the apparent glamour and prosperity of L.A. directly contrasts with how the reality of the city is for most people, and I think it's important it was contextualized by this open world format.

Hoo boy I don't agree at all. I felt the city was extremely hollow, even more so by the incredibly cheesy dialog that most of the city folk had ("hey, is that famous detective Phelps? I read about him in the papers!"). GTA IV had a much better feeling of the city being "alive" than the sparse, fairly uninteresting LA here.

I did enjoy walking down the streets and see some of the 40s streetshops and billboards, but man, it did nothing for me as far as heightening the "duty" of being an LA detective.

 

[Tutomos]

Some developers mentioned Heavy Rain as best examples of video game storytelling in an recent IGN article.

Treyarch - Dave Anthony, VP of Production

I have been most impressed recently with Heavy Rain. Quantic Dream built on the foundations set by Indigo Prophecy and delivered a quite thrilling and engaging cinematic experience. I was most impressed with how efficiently they get the player to the realization point that their actions are having direct and meaningful impact on the outcome of events and the story.

Visceral - Steve Papoutsis, Executive Producer:

In recent memory, Heavy Rain really made me care about what was happening to their protagonist and the associated characters. Heavy Rain was pretty damn awesome.

Team ICO - Fumito Ueda, Director and Lead Designer:

It would be hard to pick just one, but if I had to, it would have to be "Half-Life 2". I was really surprised and impressed when I first saw the teleportation experiment sequence as well as the game system that guides the player very smoothly and naturally to constrain him. I also thought storytelling in "Portal", "CoD4", and "Heavy Rain" were great.

 

[HK-47]

I'm just now playing Bloodlines for the first time. Incredible game <3, both the games in this thread's title are entirely insignificant in comparison.

It's sad to think that we've gone backwards as we've moved forwards through time. They definitely don't make em like that anymore.

AP is close. But the dialogue and story isnt as good.

Mitsoda at one point had a script for AP. It was a more serious spy thriller than the one we got.

 

[Atomski]

Not a fan of either. If they want to make games more movie like atleast get decent scripts.

 

[Amir0x]

Hoo boy I don't agree at all. I felt the city was extremely hollow, even more so by the incredibly cheesy dialog that most of the city folk had ("hey, is that famous detective Phelps? I read about him in the papers!"). GTA IV had a much better feeling of the city being "alive" than the sparse, fairly uninteresting LA here.

I did enjoy walking down the streets and see some of the 40s streetshops and billboards, but man, it did nothing for me as far as heightening the "duty" of being an LA detective.

As I said, the gritty L.A. helped contextualize the theme that the glitz and glamour of hollywood was just a mask for the true darkness the city was hiding. Without the open world this theme would absolutely not have been as effective.

But also like I said, the game has good game design in this regard because it co-opts any possibility of complaining about it by allowing you to skip driving around for 99.9% of the game. Just hop out, press triangle and your friend auto drives you to location. So if it annoyed you to drive around in an accurate recreation of the city of the era, all you had to do is use the GOOD GAME DESIGN to skip it.

 

[chubigans]

But also like I said, the game has good game design in this regard because it co-opts any possibility of complaining about it by allowing you to skip driving around for 99.9% of the game. Just hop out, press triangle and your friend auto drives you to location. So if it annoyed you to drive around in an accurate recreation of the city of the era, all you had to do is use the GOOD GAME DESIGN to skip it.

I did that, and my partner promptly crashed into a car, ruining my perfect case score.

Didn't do that again.

 

[Amir0x]

I did that, and my partner promptly crashed into a car, ruining my perfect case score.

Didn't do that again.

i used quick drive a billion times and did come close to crashing once

sucks you experienced a glitch like that.

 

[cleveridea]

la noire is a game, and heavy rain is "art".

I think I would have enjoyed heavy rain more if it had controls and interfaces that weren't so bizarre. It had some amazing and emotional scenes, and some jarring and incredibly boring elements.

 

[Replicant]

Silent Hill Shattered Memories did better then both as a story adventure.

LOLOLOLOL. FUCK NO.

Enjoyed Heavy Rain more than LA Noire. Plus at least Heavy Rain's character design didn't creep me out.

 

[insert_username_here]

I thought L.A. Noire was a good game despite its problems, Heavy Rain however had HUGE plot holes and the gameplay never satisfied me.

 

[kodt]

I personally enjoyed Heavy Rain much more than LA Noire.

The main criticisms I read about Heavy Rain are:

A. Plot holes.
B. Jason is dumb
C. It has QTE's

The problem with this is that most of the plot holes do not become apparent until the end of the game, personally I really enjoyed the entire game. Yeah, some of the plot holes were stupid, but that didn't subtract from the enjoyment I had prior.

Also, given that there are multiple endings and there is no true canon ending, I feel that some plot holes are more acceptable.

Yeah, Jason is dumb, get over it. It didn't ruin the entire game.

I don't mind QTE's so I guess this varies on opinion.

With Heavy Rain I actually had an emotional connection with the characters. I really had to think about my choices and sat there debating with myself internally on what I should do. I really wanted to make the correct choices to help the characters, but also struggled with some of the moral dilemmas.

Also, Heavy Rain actually and a cohesive narrative driving the entire story. This keeps you engaged and motivated to continue.

In LA Noire, on the other hand, I had no emotional attachment to the characters. The war flashbacks were dull. Cole was one dimensional and boring. Not to mention his dialogue when you select doubt.

"Hmm this lady seems to be withholding information..."

Select "Doubt"

Cole: "WHY DID YOU MURDER HIM LADY? I AM GOING TO SEND YOU TO JAIL"

wtf Cole.

LA Noire does not have a very good narrative. It is a bunch of disconnected cases, some of them interesting, that occasionally tie together. I did not find the story compelling at all in LA Noire. And the gameplay became repetitive.

- Walk around edges of all rooms waiting for rumble, then hit A to find clue.

- Music stops when all clues found.

- Interview person. Select the one and only correct answer for each question.

- Chase scene.

- Case solved.

Then repeat. The facial animation is very impressive, and many of the environments are impressive. But after that wears off you have a boring game with a dull story. Also, I wonder if the writers actually ever read or watched an actual Noire.

Summary:

Heavy Rain is a movie
LA Noire is a crappy TV Series

 

[rdrr gnr]

Both are incredibly flawed games with massive potential. Heavy Rain's flaws came with its execution, LA Noire's flaws came from its whiteboard design.

 

[Snuggles]

Wait, LA Noire marks you down for crashing? No wonder my scores were so shitty, I smashed my way from a to b every time.

 

[NullPointer]

Let me be as blunt about this as I can be. There is only one way to connect to a story like this - that is through the writing.

No, and maybe this is our biggest disagreement. I don't need the writing to be solid or else I wouldn't find much joy in any games.

What I need is a character that I can make choices for, who I may want to know the back history of, and who gets placed in interesting situations that I can play out. Its the scenarios themselves, and my choices in how to interact with other characters in the world that I appreciate.

Something as small as having a toy sword fight with your sons in the beginning of the game. Did anybody else here let their kid win? Just because you thought that's what you'd do? Did anybody try to understand their estranged son and get him to do his homework only to get rebuffed and feel just a tad of Ethan's misery in that moment?

So you know what? Call out the writing and plot holes. Scream from the hills about the voice acting (hell I'll even join you in bitching about the tank controls), but that's now what I was expecting to find in this game. I'm not looking to read an interactive novel - what I want is an interactive experience, a scenario and characters that can relate in interesting ways. Heavy Rain actually has those things, and sometimes they really work.

BTW - I never called you out - this isn't a games review deathmatch. Nor am I trying to change your mind - just trying to get you to understand my perspective.

 

[Amir0x]

how can you relate to shittily written characters in garbage written plots? My conclusion, therefore, is that your recommendation on such a subject is practically worthless. That is the point. Your opinion is not one worth exploring because you haven't even explored your own.

You're trying to dance around that fact. This is a game that is only about story having nothing but a shite written story, which you connected with despite its awful every last aspect. You keep going to moments that MIGHT have had some impact were they not tethered to this truly outrageously awful game.

 

[Beth Cyra]

LOLOLOLOL. FUCK NO.

Enjoyed Heavy Rain more than LA Noire. Plus at least Heavy Rain's character design didn't creep me out.

I stand by what I said.

Shattered Memories was a failure as a Silent Hill but as a game and a story, the way it progressed and the way it tied to everything together in the end was far more enjoyable then the QTE garbage fest and shit story that was Heavy Rain.

 

[Insane Metal]

Heavy Rain for me.

 

[chubigans]

Wait, LA Noire marks you down for crashing? No wonder my scores were so shitty, I smashed my way from a to b every time.

Combine that with the sketchy driving and it led to me never ever wanting to attempt a perfect score again.

I liked the car mechanics for the chase scenes, but man, it was not fun for open world driving, especially since you're marked down for any accident you cause.

And then I had the accident with my partner driving, so that option went out the window immediately.

 

[randomkid]

Oh, really? I thought I remembered you being like "fuck that game" once.

I remember this too! And I've never even played the game.

Anyways, most defenses of Heavy Rain are pretty terrible, the parts of the game I played were super retarded and everything I've read and seen about it leads me to believe that it's awful.

But in the interest of fairness here's a defense worth reading, because it comes from the smartest guy on GAF. Only took 30 seconds of googling to find it, because I distinctly remember thinking WHAT THE FUCK STUMP I CAN'T BELIEVE THIS when first reading it. I still don't agree with it, but I know that Stump isn't coming from a super dumb THIS MADE ME FEEL THINGS place like 95% of the game's superfans, so it's definitely worth a read.

9. Heavy Rain ; Controversial!! Let me start with the gameplay. Indigo Prophecy had serious gameplay problems. QTEs basically suck. But what Heavy Rain has isn't so much QTEs as it is context-sensitive control. In Heavy Rain, the buttons logically map to the parts of your character's body that are moving at the time, which makes the controls feel more natural and less like Simon Says. There are no extended segments of timed button presses. But most critically, the game deals with failure in the narrative; maybe the impact of failure is basically nil until certain critical moments (of course you don't notice this until the second playthrough, so the illusion is great anyway) but the point is that unlike Indigo Prophecy which would mostly fall into "Sequence failed, repeat sequence" (a failure that RE4 and God of War also have), Heavy Rain looks at failure as another possible outcome, rather than a wall that needs to be overcome to progress. I like that. I don't care to classify it in genre; interactive novel or light adventure would be the closest. I think most people can agree that whether or not they'd like a more actiony game, Heavy Rain is an immeasurable improvement on the QTE-style control versus previous experiments. I like the story. I think many of the criticisms made are true; Norman Jayden has a comical accent and he's basically an exaggerated goon. Typical movie-style "if the characters just said what they were thinking this whole mess would clear up instantly" logic is present throughout the game. Madison is basically a floozy whose only purpose is build up Ethan, a guy who is basically a pretty big loser. But most of these are somewhat intentional. Ever watch a film noir? Detective stories always have larger than life, caricature-style characters. It's a hallmark of the style. They always have convenient logic that only allows the conclusion to happen exactly when it does, and always allows insane clues to be picked up where necessary and obvious ones to be missed when necessary. All of the best noir of the decade (Brick, Season 1 of Veronica Mars, Mullholland Drive, Memento, especially stuff like Sin City, or even the cheekier lighter Kiss Kiss Bang Bang) suffers variously from these "problems". The emotional tone of the game wouldn't work without this specific setup. I think the criticisms of the plot are more germane. Several plot choices, including the Ethan red herring / unreliable narrator twist are poor choices. The original direction of the game as detailed by Cage would have been a much worse story still and most of the worst elements of what did get released are holdovers from that story. Still, the pacing was aggressive, there was good use of tension and release, the perspective switching was fun, the story was a bit of a groaner but still a fun yarn, and the tone/setting were great. Combine all this with the fact that I think the gameplay was successfully executed, and you have in my opinion a great game.

(also, sorry stump, this is like the second time i've posted something you've written in random threads but i swear i'm not a stalker)

 

[The Technomancer]

I stand by what I said.

Shattered Memories was a failure as a Silent Hill but as a game and a story, the way it progressed and the way it tied to everything together in the end was far more enjoyable then the QTE garbage fest and shit story that was Heavy Rain.

Shattered Memories had some serious structural flaws (okay, basically one: the nightmare sections). However if you really pay attention to the game, the actual placement of those stupid sections is very important. Its probably the best that I've seen a game try to be multi-layered and tell a story that you the player have to fully put together, even if it lacks polish and has some pacing issues. It was an adventure game in almost the purest sense of the word, more akin to something like the old Myst titles.

It also pulled off audio-logs in the only way that I've ever not hated them, since as they were "interference on the phone" they required none of the usual "why were you recording every aspect of your mundane life until the necromorphs/splicers/whatever attacked"

 

[Equus Bellator Apex]

how can you relate to shittily written characters in garbage written plots? My conclusion, therefore, is that your recommendation on such a subject is practically worthless. That is the point. Your opinion is not one worth exploring because you haven't even explored your own.

You're trying to dance around that fact. This is a game that is only about story having nothing but a shite written story, which you connected with despite its awful every last aspect. You keep going to moments that MIGHT have had some impact were they not tethered to this truly outrageously awful game.

That's your opinion.

Even though your name is in red that doesn't mean your opinion is more valid then anyone else's.

 

[Snuggles]

Combine that with the sketchy driving and it led to me never ever wanting to attempt a perfect score again.

I wouldn't have bothered in the first place, crashing my car into objects and other cars was the only entertaining thing about the open world aspect. Also, it loses points for not allowing me to turn people into roadkill, swerving at them was fun but it's just not the same.

 

[NullPointer]

how can you relate to shittily written characters in garbage written plots? My conclusion, therefore, is that your recommendation on such a subject is practically worthless. That is the point. Your opinion is not one worth exploring because you haven't even explored your own.

You're trying to dance around that fact. This is a game that is only about story having nothing but a shite written story, which you connected with despite its awful every last aspect. You keep going to moments that MIGHT have had some impact were they not tethered to this truly outrageously awful game.

I make points and you dismiss them. I don't need a plot written to your standards to enjoy a game. I'm not looking for a movie or a novel or a motion comic. I'm interested in the scenario and my interaction with the characters and mechanics within it. In the case of Heavy Rain the mechanics shifted quite a bit, so it really came down to choices, most of which had weight to them not only in terms of how the current scenario would play out, but how the rest of the game would play out. What tied it all together was not the story, but my own history with the characters, some of which I knew, and some of which I was still discovering as I played.

I could empathize with some of the characters because I knew their stories, not because their dialogue was expertly crafted.

If I could hazard a guess I'd say you walked in to the game with high expectations and was let down completely. I walked in expecting a novel QTE driven game and got much more than I wanted, including some very memorable moments few other games have even attempted to reproduce.

 

[Fusebox]

Heavy Rain had a far more interesting plot than any of the La Noire cases, but that's just my opinion and unlike some other posters in this thread I don't confuse my opinion with fact.

 

[The Technomancer]

That's your opinion.

Even though your name is in red that doesn't mean your opinion is more valid then anyone else's.

Heavy Rain is pretty quantifiably poorly written by almost any standard of writing. I mean, if you try to hold it up to any kind of regulated metric at all it falls pretty flat.

 

[Amir0x]

I make points and you dismiss them. I don't need a plot written to your standards to enjoy a game. I'm not looking for a movie or a novel. I'm interested in the scenario and my interaction with the characters and mechanics within it. In the case of Heavy Rain the mechanics shifted quite a bit, so it really came down to choices, most of which had weight to them not only in terms of how the current scenario would play out, but how the rest of the game would play out.

I could empathize with some of the characters because I knew their stories, not because their dialogue was expertly crafted.

If I could hazard a guess I'd say you walked in to the game with high expectations and was let down completely. I walked in expecting a novel QTE driven game and got much more than I wanted, including some very memorable moments few other games have even attempted to reproduce.

I walked in expecting a good game.

I got one of the worst games of the decade. Sorry, I don't make excuses for it.

That's your opinion.

Even though your name is in red that doesn't mean your opinion is more valid then anyone else's.

It's not an opinion that the story and characters are a complete mess, it's horribly voiced and has writing so bad that it's practically on its own scale. That's an objective fact.

 

[Papercuts]

Heavy Rain is nothing but a story, and it tells a godawful one. It's actually such a mess that I found it to be one of the funniest games I've ever played. Looking back, it failed at everything it tried to accomplish, but while playing it I was able to stay entertained throughout, end even if the story only really splits off near the end, it still had a lot of outcomes.

LA Noire was just bad and boring to me. Once homicide was over I couldn't believe there was still 2 whole desks left of the same damn shit. It's much more of a 'game' than HR was, but then all the bad game design just gets in the way and bogs everything down. The shooting is bad and the game essentially becomes a third person shooter for the last 2 hours, the questioning system was broken as hell and frequently led to times where truth/doubt would overlap and you took a guess. At times you knew the person was lying/withholding information, had no proof, yet doubt made Cole go way out of character and flip on people. For all of homoicide and part of arson you just put away innocent people, meaning all of the leadup to it, ESPECIALLY if you figure out what's happening because it's obvious, there's nothing you can do about it. The story got way in the way of the gameplay here, I wanted to be piecing together a crime that I would have to figure out how it happened, when I went with the more logical case(very much an issue in the golden butterfly) you end up picking the 'wrong' person and the game yells at you, even though it's the more probably of the two.

I had an issue with HR when it went to crazy realism shattering sequences, like Shelby shooting up a fucking mansion and not having that come back and bite him in the ass. But LA Noire hilariously does the same exact thing, you shoot up a mansion and kill everyone in it. You do sidemissions where you chase people and have to wait until they grab a hostage to kill them. You can never be non-lethal, and it kept bugging me.

I can't believe it, but I actually preferred Heavy Rain over it. I found neither to be good, but LA Noire was offensive to me. The overarching plot was paced horribly, I cared about nobody, and the plot was constantly interrupting the cases. The fact that you basically do the same fucking case 5 times in a row in homicide says it all, really. Awful. Heavy Rain also had characters I barely cared for, but atleast it was unintentionally hilarious. Hardly a good thing, but it's something...I guess.

 

[Tutomos]

This is a game that is only about story having nothing but a shite written story.

It doesn't have a shite story. It's an intellectually crafted and carefully guided story. Name me one aspect of the story that is shite.

 

[jett]

This thread kind of makes me want to check out the full version of Heavy Rain(I've only played the demo), despite knowing the twist. I liked the demo well enough, I thought it was pretty exciting. More exciting than anything in LAN anyway.

OTOH LAN is one of the worst purchases I've made in recent memory. Literally the only saving grace that game has is the facial animation. I've seen people say that there are foundations/potential for greatness, but there is nothing there. The interrogations, the core "gameplay" of the game is broken conceptually and in execution. People in this thread have said it better than I could, but I just loathe how the questioning is structured. That fucking retard Phelps goes through his neatly prepared questions, one by one, absolutely ignoring whatever line of questioning was going on. You can't really follow on anything the 'suspect' answers with, nah, you have to go to the next bullet-point like a robot. It's such lazy game design.

Add to that that there's zero wiggle room in the interrogations. Either you get it 100% right or its BZZZZZZZZZZZZZT YOU GOT IT WRONG MOTHERFUCKER, HERE LET ME SHOW YOU ONE MORE TIME YOU GOT IT WRONG BY MARKING AN X ON YOUR WORTHLESS NOTEPAD. "Hey, this piece of evidence is pretty fucking relevant to what this guy just said!" BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZT PRETTY RELEVANT? NOT AS RELEVANT AS THAT OTHER PIECE OF EVIDENCE, YOU JUST FAILED AGAIN BITCH. The worst is no matter how the interrogations go, it doesn't fucking matter in the end. Doesn't matter one bit, nothing's gonna change. Shit in the homicide desk it turns out that

Spoiler

every single suspect was innocent, despite all of them, all of them, acting like this most obviously guilty fuckers that ever lived

. Fuck this.

So now that we've established that main selling point in this game is total garbage, let's move on to the rest, like the recreated 1940's Los Angeles. Beautifully done, to be sure. Lots of details everywhere. Sadly, it's probably the most boring ass open world city I have ever experienced. There is nothing to do, the city itself is bland as hell, uninteresting to look at and boring to drive in thanks to it being flat as a pancake. Sure, I was immersed in the world in the first couple of hours, but like most everything else in the game, once you play beyond the first two hours it starts to suck pretty bad. Why? Repetition. Like I said, bland ass city, every street just blends in together. And how does this pertain to the rest of the game? Well let me tell ya about the investigation side of the game.

Another example of lazy ass game design. Every case(with maybe one or two exceptions) is exactly the same. You do the same things. Over. And over. And over. Dat repetition. Homicide was torture, there was literally no difference at all. Even what you do in the scene is done in a poor manner. Since you can't really tell what the hell it is that is lying on the floor on the murder scene, every time you arrive to them you just start walking around everywhere clicking around like a maniac trying to pick up every single thing, see if something is relevant. You do this every single goddamn time, and if you suffer from sort of mental retardation don't worry because the game will also treat every case like it's the tutorial one, reminding you which buttons to push and how to move the stick. Isn't that the best? Let's go back to repetition. Nearly every case has the same structure: Annoying piece of shit murder scene -> completely worthless interrogation -> some sort of automated chase scene / shootout. Why automated? If its a chase scene, no matter what you, the player, do, it will ALWAYS end in your favor. You don't have to do shit really. If it's a shootout, the game has the most ridiculous autoaim I have ever seen. You'd literally have to have fallen asleep to miss those shots. The shootouts were made for people that are completely inept at playing video games, I don't know how else to explain it.

LA Noire is a crappy ass game with shit gameplay. Do not buy this game. If it didn't have that facial animation or wasn't branded with the Rockstar logo it'd get such fucking awful ratings you wouldn't believe. Hyped-up trash is what it is.

 

[Amir0x]

It doesn't have a shite story. It's an intellectually crafted and carefully guided story. Name me one aspect of the story that is shite.

Maybe this giant MEGA REVIEW that I wrote and posted in this very topic can enlighten you on how factually awful the story is.

 

[JWong]

Heavy Rain made me really care about Ethan and his son.

LA Noire made me hate myself and every character.

 

[dralla]

It's not an opinion that the story and characters are a complete mess, it's horribly voiced and has writing so bad that it's practically on its own scale. That's an objective fact.

... really?

 

[areal]

Stumpokapow...

A Heavy Rain fan with backbone.

 

[truly101]

I think both games are successes in that they are the sort of successors to the old adventure games, that were mostly linear and at times obtuse. I think it shows that those games can work in execution, that you can create an experience around the narrative.

Of course the payoff depends on a strong narrative. I think Heavy Rain is a worthwhile experience, but the narrative falls apart and more or less ruins the game. Its unfortunate because I think the Heavy Rain style can work fine.

LA Noire is fine to me but it can expand more with the actual police work. I could care less about it being linear because it does a good job of capturing the serial crime drama feel. I think there can be more freedom in working a case, evaluating evidence, witnesses, but for a first effort, LA Noire is what I expected it to be. I did not want it to be GTA or RDR

 

[Tricky I Shadow]

I finished both of these games. Both have storytelling problems (go play 999 or the Ace Attorney games) but:

L.A Noire had a boring and uninteresting story, while Heavy Rain was gripping from start to finish with a very interesting story.

People here say that Heavy Rain has leaps of logic and plot holes, but compared to L.A Noire Heavy Rain completely crushes it.

L.A Noire is utterly forgettable whist Heavy Rain is one of the most memorable games I’ve ever played. Heavy Rain wins baby!

EDIT: And at least Heavy Rain had relatable, somewhat likable characters. L.A Noire's characters were terrible.

Why can’t I stop laughing at this?