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[GhostTrick]

Everyone here dislikes Takeda for his hardware decisions and not giving us super-hardware.

The problem isn't that Takeda didn't give super-hardware, it's that he gave terrible hardware.
Hardware is scalable. It's not like you either have PS360 power or PS4 power. You have a wide range of power between these two.
Wii U is 176 gflops... it could've been 500+ gflops. That's 3 times Wii U... yet it's +3 times less than PS4 and +2 times less than Xbox One. Same for power consumption. It's not either weak or powerful. It's not either 0 or 10.

 

[KuroPyonyo]

You mean this?

Yes this. Simplistic numbers that don't paint the whole picture.
How much does R&D cost to build mass-producable hardware? How much man hours are spent on developing operating systems, developer tools and other low level stuff. How much does it cost to run customer support and cover warranty? How much employees would be redundant if they didn't produce hardware? How much other hidden cost are there that I forgot?
On the other hand what kind of deals could nintendo do with for example sony or apple to get special treatment and still where is your market research that shows how many people are really out there that would buy some Nintendo IP but not a whole console?
Nobody on this forum has access to all of this and can speak with authority.

 

[Vena]

Yes this. Simplistic numbers that don't paint the whole picture.
How much does R&D cost to build mass-producable hardware? How much man hours are spent on developing operating systems, developer tools and other low level stuff. How much does it cost to run customer support and cover warranty? How much employees would be redundant if they didn't produce hardware? How much other hidden cost are there that I forgot?
On the other hand what kind of deals could nintendo do with for example sony or apple to get special treatment and still where is your market research that shows how many people are really out there that would buy some Nintendo IP but not a whole console?
Nobody on this forum has access to all of this and can speak with authority.

So, yes, my second quote was apt, you want a different Nintendo, not the one that exists right now.

The basic numbers give you an insight into money leveraged either way, and without that money a large swath of Nintendo would have to simply be removed. On top of that, profits from hardware and no need to pay licensing on risky ventures, means that experimentation would dry up without that to a large degree.

 

[Darius]

You state this with such certanity as if it were an absolute undeniable fact.
Where are your sources? Show me your professional market research that shows that Software revenue (nintendo fans) + hardware revenue - hardware operating cost is bigger then Software revenue (nintendo fans) + Software revenue (interesseted PS4/One/PC or Mobile users) - platform licenses.
I think everyone is just talking out of their ass, with no access to real numbers and market research to back them up.

What matters is that there´ll be a next console and a next handheld by Nintendo, while ironically considering the ongoing Nintendo should abandon hardware fraction, the direct competition is likely to say good bye after this gen when it comes to the latter mentioned segment of the dedicated videogame market.

 

[Datschge]

Whenever these futile discussions start I wonder where the "Apple should abandon hardware" or "Apple should abandon software" fractions are that'd expect the resulting "Apple" to be more successful than the current one. Being able to design hardware and software at once and as such control every facet of user experience is a competitive advantage to a high profit margin market. One would think the success of DS and Wii (and Apple starting with iPod and currently iPhone) showed as much.

 

[KuroPyonyo]

So, yes, my second quote was apt, you want a different Nintendo, not the one that exists right now.

The basic numbers give you an insight into money leveraged either way, and without that money a large swath of Nintendo would have to simply be removed. On top of that, profits from hardware and no need to pay licensing on risky ventures, means that experimentation would dry up without that to a large degree.

I don't really want anything out of a company. I just want to play games that I enjoy by whomever regardless on who made the box on which said games run on. There are just so many emotionally charged responses to anyone that says Nintendo should go 3rd party while no armchair analyst here is able to provide thorough argumentation either for or against it.

 

[Vena]

I don't really want anything out of a company. I just want to play games that I enjoy by whomever regardless on who made the box on which said games run on. There are just so many emotionally charged responses to anyone that says Nintendo should go 3rd party while no armchair analyst here is able to provide thorough argumentation either for or against it.

What I provided wasn't from armchair analysts, it was from people in the business or with the numbers who also don't think the proposition makes sense.

 

[Shikamaru Ninja]

].Do we know anything about the guys leading the new hardware division ("Platform Technology Development")? Ko Shiota has been given the management position previously held by Takeda. That seems quite a significant promotion as well (not as big as Takahashi's though).

Ko Shiota programmed the SNES Pilotwings! He has been at Nintendo forever, and Takeda's right hand man for the last two decades.

].Takashi Tezuka is conspicuously absent from the list as well...

There are still other positions availabe that Sakamoto and Tezuka may have - like Executive Officer. I updated the OP.

But it looks like Super Mario Maker was the last release under the older structure, I figure they waited until its release to announce the new structure.

 

[Van Owen]

Shiota still being in charge of hardware is pretty awful.

 

[Dash Kappei]

I think Miyamoto is basically as brilliant as he has ever been, but has too much power within the company. Essentially I think Nintendo needs an anti-Miyamoto to challenge him when he's wrong and make the things Miyamoto would never make. I think Gunpei Yokoi used to be the anti-Miyamoto, but nowadays it looks like Miyamoto's been placed on an untouchable pedestal.

Miyamoto is fantastic, but he shouldn't be in charge of all of the software output at the company.

One and done.

 

[WillyFive]

All this work to reorganize and they didn't come up with any good names for their development studios. It all seems so corporate.

 

[antonz]

The Wii U had a troubled development cycle is what people forget. It was troubled enough that it included a complete starting over. I would bet that Wii HD was in fact a real project that was eventually scrapped for not being innovative enough which led to the Wii U as we know it. They acknowledged that by the time the Wii U finally came out they were too late leading the tablet charge

 

[Nanashrew]

"Someone younger," as if there are a ton of young Miyamotos just milling around at Nintendo.

Miyamoto has been grooming many people and Koizumi is likely to be his successor one day.

I don't really want anything out of a company. I just want to play games that I enjoy by whomever regardless on who made the box on which said games run on. There are just so many emotionally charged responses to anyone that says Nintendo should go 3rd party while no armchair analyst here is able to provide thorough argumentation either for or against it.

Maybe you should search up some Aquamarine threads for what you seek since she is an investor.

 

[Shikamaru Ninja]

All this work to reorganize and they didn't come up with any good names for their development studios. It all seems so corporate.

They are internal R&D divisions - not studios. Nintendo is still old school.

 

[Madao]

And a third party Nintendo wouldn't have Smash Bros., because all of those franchises that make up Smash Bros. wouldn't have any more games, meaning there'd be no point in putting them out there.

1/3rd of the Smash Bros roster is from dead franchises already. i don't think going 3rd party is gonna kill the series.

 

[Shikamaru Ninja]

Looks like Nintendo is setting themselves up for the future. Hopefully this will lead to a more constant line of game releases/

Pretty much. It actually looks like Takahashi and Shiota were being trained to take over those positions beforehand. The only surprises were Kimishima and his understudy being promoted.

 

[entremet]

Let Miyamoto retire. He's worked long and hard. He deserves a break and retire in peace. It's a big loss, but I rather see the man live a happy life.

What if he enjoys working?

Retirement is boring for many.

 

[Labrynian Rebel]

1/3rd of the Smash Bros roster is from dead franchises already.

 

[Instro]

Shiota still being in charge of hardware is pretty awful.

Why?

 

[casiopao]

Yes this. Simplistic numbers that don't paint the whole picture.
How much does R&D cost to build mass-producable hardware? How much man hours are spent on developing operating systems, developer tools and other low level stuff. How much does it cost to run customer support and cover warranty? How much employees would be redundant if they didn't produce hardware? How much other hidden cost are there that I forgot?
On the other hand what kind of deals could nintendo do with for example sony or apple to get special treatment and still where is your market research that shows how many people are really out there that would buy some Nintendo IP but not a whole console?
Nobody on this forum has access to all of this and can speak with authority.

Aquamarine is investor bruh, she knows a lot more than us here.

And if u wanted that totally complete data, u must as well go work Nintendo urself or investment company as there are no way those data is going to be available to common folks or even those kind of fantasy deal cost, which may not even be in the mind of Nintendo.

 

[AntMurda]

Miyamoto has been grooming many people and Koizumi is likely to be his successor one day.

Miyamoto just chose his successor, and it was Shinya Takahashi.

 

[Van Owen]

Why?

He was behind Wii and Wii U.

 

[entremet]

Aquamarine is investor bruh, she knows a lot more than us here.

And if u wanted that totally complete data, u must as well go work Nintendo urself or investment company as there are no way those data is going to be available to common folks or even those kind of fantasy deal cost, which may not even be in the mind of Nintendo.

I think you mean investment banker, unless she owns shares of Nintendo.

 

[AntMurda]

He was behind Wii and Wii U.

He was following orders. The blueprint was decided by the executive trinity.

 

[Instro]

He was behind Wii and Wii U.

Well yes, I get that he was the supervisor for those efforts, but the overall direction for both came from above, where it will continue to come from.

 

[BD1]

I wonder if Reggie gets the nod for NoA CEO? There's never been a non-Japanese CEO, so it doesn't seem NCL's style, but it's exclusion in the press release is odd.

Also, the EPD restructure just continues to point to the unified NX platform we've all been speculating about. If they've got multiple devices running the same software, it makes sense to have a massive development division under one management team.

 

[casiopao]

I think you mean investment banker, unless she owns shares of Nintendo.

Uups. My miss there. Tx for the correction.^~^

 

[CesspoolofHatred]

I wonder if Reggie gets the nod for NoA CEO? There's never been a non-Japanese CEO, so it doesn't seem NCL's style, but it's exclusion in the press release is odd.

Also, the EPD restructure just continues to point to the unified NX platform we've all been speculating about. If they've got multiple devices running the same software, it makes sense to have a massive development division under one management team.

If Kimishima's assuming ALL of Iwata's former responsibilities, it'd be reasonable to assume that might include him being CEO of NoA as well.

 

[Agent Unknown]

The problem isn't that Takeda didn't give super-hardware, it's that he gave terrible hardware.
Hardware is scalable. It's not like you either have PS360 power or PS4 power. You have a wide range of power between these two.
Wii U is 176 gflops... it could've been 500+ gflops. That's 3 times Wii U... yet it's +3 times less than PS4 and +2 times less than Xbox One. Same for power consumption. It's not either weak or powerful. It's not either 0 or 10.

Nailed it! It's a shame Takeda is still overseeing hardware after the disastrous cuts he made to the Wii U which cost us anything even approaching the garden demo, I really worry for the possible negative influence he will have on whatever hardware is comprising NX. If there was anyone who seriously should have been made to take a pay cut along with Iwata and Miyamoto, it's Genyo Takeda.

 

[Eteric Rice]

Nailed it! It's a shame Takeda is still overseeing hardware after the disastrous cuts he made to the Wii U which cost us anything even approaching the garden demo, I really worry for the possible negative influence he will have on whatever hardware is comprising NX. If there was anyone who seriously should have been made to take a pay cut along with Iwata and Miyamoto, it's Genyo Takeda.

I guess the question is weather he was told to make the hardware like he did, or not? I feel like we don't know enough to outright call for the man's head.

 

[Neff]

You state this with such certanity as if it were an absolute undeniable fact.

No, I don't. But I'm assuming Nintendo's hardware business is extremely profitable, as they've made many billions from it over a very long period, something advocates of Nintendo going third party and stealth port beggars seem to ignore.

Like I said, abandoning a business (and it would be abandonment, once you can get Nintendo games on competing hardware, the game would literally be up) which works to chase consumers showing only passing interest in their product doesn't sound very sensible to me. It probably doesn't sound very sensible to Nintendo either, otherwise they would have done it.

 

[TreasureHunterG]

So no plans on changing NoA? Is the new Presisent still going to run NoA and the rest of Nintendo?

I have the same doubt. Shikamaru, do you know anything about NoA? Are they going to promote a new CEO or Kimishima will handle both?

Nailed it! It's a shame Takeda is still overseeing hardware after the disastrous cuts he made to the Wii U which cost us anything even approaching the garden demo, I really worry for the possible negative influence he will have on whatever hardware is comprising NX. If there was anyone who seriously should have been made to take a pay cut along with Iwata and Miyamoto, it's Genyo Takeda.

As much Takeda was in the hardware department lead, he made Wii and Wii U based on Iwata/Miyamoto philosophies.

 

[AmyS]

The problem isn't that Takeda didn't give super-hardware, it's that he gave terrible hardware.
Hardware is scalable. It's not like you either have PS360 power or PS4 power. You have a wide range of power between these two.
Wii U is 176 gflops... it could've been 500+ gflops. That's 3 times Wii U... yet it's +3 times less than PS4 and +2 times less than Xbox One. Same for power consumption. It's not either weak or powerful. It's not either 0 or 10.

Very well said, I totally agree.

 

[entremet]

No, I don't. But I'm assuming Nintendo's hardware business is extremely profitable, as they've made many billions from it over a very long period, something advocates of Nintendo going third party and stealth port beggars seem to ignore.

Like I said, abandoning a business (and it would be abandonment, once you can get Nintendo games on competing hardware, the game would literally be up) which works to chase consumers showing only passing interest in their product doesn't sound very sensible to me. It probably doesn't sound very sensible to Nintendo either, otherwise they would have done it.

Stop on there.

 

[TheMoon]

http://kotaku.com/some-inside-baseball-for-nintendo-fans-as-ead-transform-1730630975

kotaku has the PDFs with the new structure and titles including some more statements for download. it seems nintendo sent them out directly or they are on the press site maybe.

Establishment of the Entertainment Planning & Development Division

We will integrate personnel who are involved in the development of software for Nintendo platforms and smart devices in addition to work associated with effective utilization of character IP, and in order to create a structure that operates efficiently and rapidly, the Entertainment Analysis & Development Division and the Software Planning & Development Division will be consolidated into the newly established Entertainment Planning & Development Division.

Establishment of the Platform Technology Development Division

We will integrate personnel responsible for the technology development essential for Nintendo’s hardware formation such as hardware, OS, development environment and network, and in order to create a structure in which we can more broadly and efficiently conduct technology development necessary for new products and services, the Integrated Research & Development Division and the System Development Division will be consolidated into the newly established Platform Technology Development Division.

Establishment of the Business Development Division

We will newly establish the Business Development Division, a division with the aim of refining the business model for the dedicated video game system business, and creating and making profitable the smart device business and the new business that utilizes character IP.

 

[Shikamaru Ninja]

http://kotaku.com/some-inside-baseball-for-nintendo-fans-as-ead-transform-1730630975

kotaku has the PDFs with the new structure and titles including some more statements for download. it seems nintendo sent them out directly or they are on the press site maybe.

Super Mario Maker's release and this final R&D restructure were definitely timed accordingly.

 

[JohnTinker]

So which of these teams do we have to beg to make another F-Zero?

 

[TheMoon]

So which of these teams do we have to beg to make another F-Zero?

Same one as before, EPD 5 under Sugiyama, director of F-Zero X.

 

[Sami+]

I personally hope he retires soon. He's got an insane pedigree, and has done more for gaming than anyone, but I think he's lost his touch. They need someone younger calling the shots.

Agreed. Miyamoto is old and I don't think his input is as positive a thing as it used to be.

 

[TheMoon]

Agreed. Miyamoto is old and I don't think his input is as positive a thing as it used to be.

Because Nintendo games have gotten worse recently? As evidenced by .....?

Or what?

 

[Shikamaru Ninja]

Agreed. Miyamoto is old and I don't think his input is as positive a thing as it used to be.

Nintendo's development groups needed a younger boss that wasn't as far removed from gaming as Miyamoto. I think Stephen Totilo perfectly illustrated that point, when he asked Miyamoto about Minecraft and he helplessly redirected the question towards Takahashi. Miyamoto will have a bigger role in steering the overall creative direction of the company including QoL, Mobile, Theme Parks, etc.

If someone at EPD wants to do a MMORGP or a JRPG, i think Takahashi/Eguchi/Koizumi will definitely give the idea a fighting chance.

 

[Shion]

I'm not sure how to feel about Nintendo's new structure. I generally think that overly-centralized structures, with rigid hierarchies and lots of micromanagement from the upper levels, strangle creativity and hinder diversity. I think that this has been a problem at Nintendo for quite some time now. And, although we don't really know how the new model is supposed to work, at first glance, it seems even more centralized than before.

When Nintendo announced their plans for a restructure, I was kinda hoping for a move toward a more flexible and decentralized structure at the company. Like maybe finally letting their more experienced staff form autonomous studios with their own, unique, creative cultures and the freedom to develop games without being obligated to follow the ideals and usual design principles of the company's old guard.

Basically, I would like to see Nintendo letting creativity flourish the way SEGA did in the Dreamcast days. Or, if that's too risky for Nintendo, maybe move towards a structure with multiple, autonomous, divisions (similar to their old R&D model).

 

[TheMoon]

I'm not sure how to feel about Nintendo's new structure. I generally think that overly-centralized structures, with rigid hierarchies and lots of micromanagement from the upper levels, strangle creativity and hinder diversity. I think that this has been a problem at Nintendo for quite some time now. And, although we don't really know how the new model is supposed to work, at first glance, it seems even more centralized than before.

When Nintendo announced their plans for a restructure, I was kinda hoping for a move toward a more flexible and decentralized structure at the company. Like maybe finally letting their more experienced staff form autonomous studios with their own, unique, creative cultures and the freedom to develop games without being obligated to follow the ideals and usual design principles of the company's old guard.

Basically, I would like to see Nintendo letting creativity flourish the way SEGA did in the Dreamcast days. Or, if that's too risky for Nintendo, maybe move towards a structure with multiple, autonomous, divisions (similar to their old R&D model).

You do know how Splatoon happened, though, right?

 

[Instro]

Because Nintendo games have gotten worse recently? As evidenced by .....?

Or what?

The WiiU's first party lineup is hardly impressive, particularly if you remove the games not developed internally. Combine that with the droughts, the tons of casual games, and weird input attributed to him on certain games, I don't think his role as software manager has been particularly successful for the enthusiast crowd.

 

[StevieP]

The WiiU's first party lineup is hardly impressive, particularly if you remove the games not developed internally. Combine that with the droughts, the tons of casual games, and weird input attributed to him on certain games, I don't think his role as software manager has been particularly successful for the enthusiast crowd.

Does a game only count as a first party title if it is developed by EPD?

 

[Instro]

Does a game only count as a first party title if it is developed by EPD?

EPD and any studios they own. Internal production seems a more meaningful metric since their 3rd party collaboration titles have been a wash quality wise.

 

[Shikamaru Ninja]

The WiiU's first party lineup is hardly impressive, particularly if you remove the games not developed internally. Combine that with the droughts, the tons of casual games, and weird input attributed to him on certain games, I don't think his role as software manager has been particularly successful for the enthusiast crowd.

I really do think the two most impressive games on the Wii U are Mario Kart 8 and Splatoon. They are just loaded with content and really display a higher production value from EAD who sometimes skims on these things.

Does a game only count as a first party title if it is developed by EPD?

First-party and internal imply different things. First-party can just mean a game developed with Nintendo money and a Nintendo producer. Internal probably means developed inside their main R&D.

 

[Neoxon]

EPD and any studios they own. Internal production seems a more meaningful metric since their 3rd party collaboration titles have been a wash quality wise.

• Smash 4
• The Wonderful 101
• Bayonetta 2 (Nintendo funded this, so I'll count it)
• Hyrule Warriors
• Yoshi's Woolly World

You were saying?

 

[Pyrokai]

• Smash 4
• The Wonderful 101
• Bayonetta 2 (Nintendo funded this, so I'll count it)
• Tropical Freeze
• Hyrule Warriors
• Yoshi's Woolly World

You were saying?

Tropical Freeze is not a third party collaboration.

 

[Neoxon]

Tropical Freeze is not a third party collaboration.

I thought he was referring to external efforts as a whole. I'll edit it out, then.