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Larry Bundy Jr: 4 Times Shigeru Miyamoto Was an Asshole
- Thread starter nynt9
- Start date
Air Zombie Meat
Member
And here I was thinking japanese corporate culture was all smiles and rainbows.
wonderful103
Member
Godzilla's Left Toe
Member
Hey they made that great (lol)Batman game .
-Mutsukki-
Member
...People take Larry Bundy Jr seriously...? I always though he was a B-tier youtuber...
see
And yet he proceeded to work on the 3DS remake of 64 with his company...? Something isn''t adding up
Also, I just read "Power-Up" by Chris Kohler, which features an interview with Cuthbert... he's really a lot of smiles and rainbows when talking about Nintendo and Miyamoto (and he didn't need to be). And that's freaking 2004, a long time before he started to work with them again.
That's not a rumor? The developers said in plain letters "Miyamoto asked us to use only Mario characters if possible and to make the story simpler. We thought it over and it made sense so we did it". Eventually they didn't like having a barebones story seeing how they beefed it up for Color Splash, but them only using estabilished Mario characters instead of their own is probably out of respect for Miyamoto.
see
And yet he proceeded to work on the 3DS remake of 64 with his company...? Something isn''t adding up
Also, I just read "Power-Up" by Chris Kohler, which features an interview with Cuthbert... he's really a lot of smiles and rainbows when talking about Nintendo and Miyamoto (and he didn't need to be). And that's freaking 2004, a long time before he started to work with them again.
That's not a rumor? The developers said in plain letters "Miyamoto asked us to use only Mario characters if possible and to make the story simpler. We thought it over and it made sense so we did it". Eventually they didn't like having a barebones story seeing how they beefed it up for Color Splash, but them only using estabilished Mario characters instead of their own is probably out of respect for Miyamoto.
"Miyamoto: The first point that I want to make is that I actually worked very closely with Rare on the original Donkey Kong Country. And apparently recently some rumor got out that I didn't really like that game? I just want to clarify that that's not the case, because I was very involved in that. And even emailing almost daily with Tim Stamper right up until the end."
http://www.ign.com/articles/2010/06...-donkey-kong-country-after-all?page=3
I really, REALLY love Larry Bundy Jr, but the whole "DKC infamous quote" is very problematic.
http://www.ign.com/articles/2010/06...-donkey-kong-country-after-all?page=3
I really, REALLY love Larry Bundy Jr, but the whole "DKC infamous quote" is very problematic.
Schopenhauerian
Member
Sure thing
Hopefully folks here consider supporting the awesome shmuplations translations! Also, that line actually didn't come from Naka, it came from Hirokazu Yasuhara:
By contrast, Naka says in the interview:
Archives of Electronic Games Magazine only goes up to 1994 so I cannot find the DKC Miyamoto thing. Still though, Miyamoto debunked it in 2010 in an interview with IGN.
The Star Fox 2 thing is known, as saddening as it is. But Nintendo owns the code so they cannot steal it. Not giving credit is bad though.
The Croc/Mario 64 sounds like bad conjecture.
Plus.
I believe Miyamoto even recommended Cuthbert to HAL Lab but Cuthbert declined the offer. Cuthbert has also worked on Nintendo too.
The Star Fox 2 thing is known, as saddening as it is. But Nintendo owns the code so they cannot steal it. Not giving credit is bad though.
The Croc/Mario 64 sounds like bad conjecture.
Plus.
I believe Miyamoto even recommended Cuthbert to HAL Lab but Cuthbert declined the offer. Cuthbert has also worked on Nintendo too.
-Mutsukki-
Member
I find it weird that another guy from Argonaut, Giles Goddard, had no problems to continue working with Nintendo after a bunch of his co-workers got their work stolen. Even going as far as making 1080º Snowboarding, porting Doshin the Giant to the Gamecube and then coming back and making Steel Diver.
I... dunno. There are people like that, but this whole exchange and accusations sound hella fishy
I... dunno. There are people like that, but this whole exchange and accusations sound hella fishy
Lord Ghirahim
Member
Dont say that about yourself dude youre no demon like miyamoto
This is both hilarious and horrifying
-Mutsukki-
Member
My one true wish is to be able to understand this comic
Eric the Red
Member
There is a ton of "citation needed!" moments in that video. And I was particularly unpersuaded and unmoved by the Croc/Mario64 bit. So without the Croc concepts Nintendo wouldn't have made a 3D mario platformer for their N64 system? The system who's whole point was 3D gaming (analog stick and all?) Yeah right. So putting aside the broad concept then, Mario 64 has x1000 the inspiration, talent and craft of Croc so I doubt there was anything else for them to have even potentially stolen from it.
ultrazilla
Gold Member
Exactly. Look at the movie "ALIENS" and then look at how many games and movies afterwards that basically "borrowed" from it. From creatures, weaponry, bad ass space marines and so on. It's crazy. You don't see James Cameron sitting around and crying about it. I mean there's a lot of folks who've cited "ALIENS" as big influences for their own projects.
1. Have you seen Rare? They're hostile and crusty, you gotta slap em around a bit. Besides it's pretty agreed upon that DKC 1 is the worst playing of the trilogy so Miyamoto was right.
2. From the reviews I've seen Star Fox 2 wasn't that great so that's probably why it didn't see release.
3. lol ya ok they "stole the concept" and whipped together possibly the greatest and most revolutionary game ever AND beat Croc to market. Timeline makes no sense.
4. Some random story about DMA that the video creator admits doesn't really even fit his premise.
2. From the reviews I've seen Star Fox 2 wasn't that great so that's probably why it didn't see release.
3. lol ya ok they "stole the concept" and whipped together possibly the greatest and most revolutionary game ever AND beat Croc to market. Timeline makes no sense.
4. Some random story about DMA that the video creator admits doesn't really even fit his premise.
DecoReturns
Member
Slighty off topic but Star Fox takes a lot from Star Wars and Independence Day.
Also Metroid with Alien.
-Mutsukki-
Member
oh no nintendo might be in hot water again, i just realised metroid has an enemy named ridley... as in ridley scott... jesus christ will the thefts never end
maybe Larry Bundy Jr will make a video about it soon, hopefully
Heavy's Sandvich
Member
will watch video when have time - i would have thought space station silicon valley buried dma not body harvest?
They both included running and jumping in a 3D space
1. Miyamoto was pissed at Nintendo management for warmly suggesting to change Yoshi's Island art style to pre-rendered graphics similar to DKC.
Miyamoto wasn't pissed at Rare.
2. Nintendo cancelled Start Fox 2 for business opportunity that is to make enough room between the original Star Fox and the N64 sequel (business decision which paid off since SF64 is the best selling game in the series).
A bunch of other polygonal games slated for SNES in 1995/1996 were cancelled to not give to the general public the impression that "Nintendo 3D" was sloppy, in fact Sega Saturn and Sony PlayStation were available from 1995 in most western markets.
3. There is no evidence that suggest Nintendo stole the concept from Croc (who have played both games know what I mean) for its masterpiece Super Mario 64.
It's like saying Nintendo stole the concept from other sort of platform games which used polygonal graphics like Alpha Waves or Jumping Flash that came out before SM64 when in reality SM64 was an order of magnitude more advanced than any console game available in the conole market in 1996.
4. DMA worked on a bunch of project for N64.
Some released:
Silicon Valley: what a masterpiece
Body Harvest: important from an historic point of view but not well executed.
Some cancelled:
Zenith: a game where you need to climb a tower.
Some rumored:
Unreal: port of Epic FPS for 64DD
Metroid 64: yep the external developer that had the task to bring Samus Aran on N64 is rumored to be DMA Design.
The relationship between Nintendo and DMA Design wasn't any different from any other similar relationship between a publisher and a developer.
Miyamoto wasn't pissed at Rare.
2. Nintendo cancelled Start Fox 2 for business opportunity that is to make enough room between the original Star Fox and the N64 sequel (business decision which paid off since SF64 is the best selling game in the series).
A bunch of other polygonal games slated for SNES in 1995/1996 were cancelled to not give to the general public the impression that "Nintendo 3D" was sloppy, in fact Sega Saturn and Sony PlayStation were available from 1995 in most western markets.
3. There is no evidence that suggest Nintendo stole the concept from Croc (who have played both games know what I mean) for its masterpiece Super Mario 64.
It's like saying Nintendo stole the concept from other sort of platform games which used polygonal graphics like Alpha Waves or Jumping Flash that came out before SM64 when in reality SM64 was an order of magnitude more advanced than any console game available in the conole market in 1996.
4. DMA worked on a bunch of project for N64.
Some released:
Silicon Valley: what a masterpiece
Body Harvest: important from an historic point of view but not well executed.
Some cancelled:
Zenith: a game where you need to climb a tower.
Some rumored:
Unreal: port of Epic FPS for 64DD
Metroid 64: yep the external developer that had the task to bring Samus Aran on N64 is rumored to be DMA Design.
The relationship between Nintendo and DMA Design wasn't any different from any other similar relationship between a publisher and a developer.
ByWatterson
Member
That makes me less inclined to support Nintendo in the future as I introduce games to my young son.
I probably still will, but man, they certainly have received some comeuppance for that arrogance. If that's what they think of Western developers, what do they think of Western players?
petran79
Banned
Western developers had also great output and experience. Eg Alpha Waves (1990) was the first 3D platformer.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpha_Waves
- Yes visible depth-of-field clipping (objects disappearing in the distance)
- Large (for the time) number of 3D objects displayed simultaneously
-First simultaneous 2-player split-screen mode on a single computer (only on the Atari ST and Amiga versions)
It is just that Nintendo took all that and made it mainstream instead of being limited to the European video game scene. They take more credit than they deserve but this is to be expected.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpha_Waves
- Yes visible depth-of-field clipping (objects disappearing in the distance)
- Large (for the time) number of 3D objects displayed simultaneously
-First simultaneous 2-player split-screen mode on a single computer (only on the Atari ST and Amiga versions)
It is just that Nintendo took all that and made it mainstream instead of being limited to the European video game scene. They take more credit than they deserve but this is to be expected.
Alpha Waves doesn't look like a good game though (and not because it was developed by a non-japanese developer).
That was back when Yamauchi was still the president, and he retired and passed away. He was a very strict, stubborn guy and was part in ruining the relationship they had with some companies, even some like Square. Square only finally came back to Nintendo when Iwata became president.
Surprised Larry didn't include Miyamoto stealing spherical world from Insomniac for Mario Galaxies and rounded the list to 5.
It shouldn't be a surprise if you know Yamauchi, it's known he was an asshole with everyone, even with his family.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
If these accusations were about Bobby Kotick, you guys would be asking for blood.
Someone plaster this all over Arin Hanson's twitter
A Link to the Past
Banned
I was subscribed to this guy for 10 minutes, read the thread, returned to not subbing lol.
I knew about the DKC thing being bunk and let it slide, but when there were 8 million holes in everything else, it just became kind of apparent that he's not exactly a top-lister.
This feels like something you'd experience in a nightmare. You meet someone you idolize in a situation where they never would be, and something happens that makes no sense with that person.
I knew about the DKC thing being bunk and let it slide, but when there were 8 million holes in everything else, it just became kind of apparent that he's not exactly a top-lister.
This feels like something you'd experience in a nightmare. You meet someone you idolize in a situation where they never would be, and something happens that makes no sense with that person.
well yeah. if these accusations were about a different person with a different reputation the reaction would be different. weird
I'm curious about the "stealing code" stuff. Nintendo funded development for Starfox (not to mention helped co-develop it as well), so wouldn't the code, even if it was entirely created by Argonaut belong to Nintendo?
Also didn't know that DMA was originally on the "Dream Team", which is pretty hilarious looking back at some of the devs involved like... Left Field Studios LOL.
edit: But the biggest item on the list that I REALLY think should be taken with a mountain of salt is that Argonaut gave Nintendo the idea to make a 3D platformer. Nintendo goes through the effort of making a 3D capable console and not a single person internally ever floated the idea of bringing their most successful series to the third dimension? Really? Really?
Also didn't know that DMA was originally on the "Dream Team", which is pretty hilarious looking back at some of the devs involved like... Left Field Studios LOL.
edit: But the biggest item on the list that I REALLY think should be taken with a mountain of salt is that Argonaut gave Nintendo the idea to make a 3D platformer. Nintendo goes through the effort of making a 3D capable console and not a single person internally ever floated the idea of bringing their most successful series to the third dimension? Really? Really?
I mean, I don't even know who this YouTube guy is so I'd be questioning his sources regardless. There's little reason for me to believe him.
Plus with all the information we have, much of his points have been debunked in this thread numerous times.
Miyamoto didn't create Wario *closes video*
Yeah. I do think there is some truth in his words, but it's most-likely not nearly as bad as he is making it sound.
Jonneh3003
Banned
Can't say he's done a good job persuading me.
SiegfriedFM
Member
Larry didn't come up with the Croc thing, it was detailed in a recent issue of Retro Gamer which had a special on that game. Maybe also in their SM64 special. If noone else has it, I can look it up when I get back home.
Jonneh3003
Banned
Same thing happened at Ikea
Claude Augario
Member
A bit surprised the mods didn't have fun with the title yet considering all the debunking in here.
Combat Wombat
Banned
Alright, here we go https://youtu.be/xL83Ko0vYrw?t=13m55s
Here's an old G4 Icons episode where one of the writers for Electronic Games Magazine claims he had Miyamoto and Rare co-founder Tim Stamper in the same room. He claims he interviewed them both at the same time and that's when Shiggy told his business partner right to his face, that his game was mediocre.
Also, the issue where the alleged interview was published is from May 1995, not March, which makes Larry's video even more dubious if he can't even get simple facts like that right. All that's available online is a scanned cover of the issue unfortunately. I've tried looking everywhere for an entire scan without success, so whether Miyamoto actually said this is still up in the air until someone finds the magazine and confirms it once and for all. It's still shitty and irresponsible of Larry to pass it off as fact while ignoring Miyamoto's acknowledgement of the rumor when he spoke with IGN.
Here's an old G4 Icons episode where one of the writers for Electronic Games Magazine claims he had Miyamoto and Rare co-founder Tim Stamper in the same room. He claims he interviewed them both at the same time and that's when Shiggy told his business partner right to his face, that his game was mediocre.
Also, the issue where the alleged interview was published is from May 1995, not March, which makes Larry's video even more dubious if he can't even get simple facts like that right. All that's available online is a scanned cover of the issue unfortunately. I've tried looking everywhere for an entire scan without success, so whether Miyamoto actually said this is still up in the air until someone finds the magazine and confirms it once and for all. It's still shitty and irresponsible of Larry to pass it off as fact while ignoring Miyamoto's acknowledgement of the rumor when he spoke with IGN.
The Croc thing is actually even funnier in retrospect because back in the day, when I got my first PS1 (of many, sadly), it came with a demo of Croc. I remember thinking back then what was the big deal with Super Mario 64 when this game seemed to be almost exactly like it.
In case you were wondering, no, I had never actually played Mario 64 up until that point.
In case you were wondering, no, I had never actually played Mario 64 up until that point.