mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Liu Kang Baking A Pie said:
It is mostly NBC's fault though.
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Late Night Wars - Conan's last Tonight Show was TONIGHT a long time ago
- Thread starter gdt
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It is mostly NBC's fault though.
captive said:
well, this is my 2cents here... i honestly believe that leno originally wanted the 11:35 slot but since they couldn't guarantee it to him because of contractual reasons to Conan, he must've asked for a guaranteed X amount of yrs minimum contract at a earlier time. I think leno just wanted to be on before conan so leno could somehow sabotage conan's show. I mean why else would Leno sign that contract? Nobody force him to and he knew very well that this would cause problems for conan. Remember most of this was on Leno's terms (i.e. time slot, style of show, guest list, etc...) except for the cancellation part The Jay Leno Show... just my 2cents conspiracy theory here...
AlphaSnake
...and that, kids, was the first time I sucked a dick for crack
captive said:
Stop with your logic and rationale. Stop it now. This is no place for it. You're just being contrary!
Leno could make this all go away right now. He could realize how much this is screwing over a person who has been selected (fairly or otherwise) as his successor. Conan and his staff moved across the county to do the Tonight Show. NBC built a brand new studio for them. Leno is ignoring all of this just because he wants to keep doing TV. Of course this is mostly NBC's fault, but Leno is not completely innocent in all of this. Conan had every right to want to advance his career after doing his show for so long. Leno specifically said he wanted the transition to be smooth this time; he's allowing the opposite to happen.captive said:
captive said:
You're right this situation is not entirely his fault, but I think the reason everyone here (and elsewhere) are shitting on him is because he didn't immediately dismiss the idea of moving his show to 11:35 or taking back the Tonight Show. I mean I don't know where I'm getting these late night political morals from but it seems pretty clear to me and everyone else that you just don't do that. When this ridiculous idea was suggested the right thing for Jay to do was to immediately and publicly reject the idea, which he hasn't done.
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
Tobor said:
Do you forget the NBC executives who said that a 1.5 rating for the Jay Leno Show was expected and made it a profitable show for them?
Because based on your comments, it seems you are forgetting that as well.
As somebody said earlier, NBC affiliates are to get the majority of blame here. Leno's show was getting exactly what NBC expected it to get. It costs WAY less to produce and they were happy with the results. Unfortunately, the local news affiliates weren't.
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
captive said:
Exactly.
This is what irritates me about this thread--it seems like nobody can accept that there is blame to be passed all-around here. It's like a fanboy thread on the gaming side.
semiregular
Neo Member
And don't forget Jay doesn't exactly have the best track record for this kind of thing.
I wonder if NBC is doing good revenue wise? There is no way these execs can stay this long after screwing up one thing after another... It's like 30 rock IRL.
I wonder if NBC is doing good revenue wise? There is no way these execs can stay this long after screwing up one thing after another... It's like 30 rock IRL.
captive said:
Leno should have said in 2004 that he doesn't intend to leave the Tonight Show in 2009.
NBC would have agreed to that, and Conan wouldn't have passed up the more lucrative offers he got from other networks.
Also, Leno could do the same as Conan right now and tell NBC that moving the Tonight Show to another time slot is absolutely no option.
If Jay sides with Conan, the Tonight Show would stay right where it is, with Conan as host, and Leno possibly going to another network - that would be the right thing for him to do.
It's obvious that Jay wants the job back. He just sits and waits until NBC is done with the dirty work.
It's obvious from the beginning that Leno's show will dilute the late night show watchers. I mean that's 4 freaking talk shows counting Daly Carson. It's ridiculous. I'm sure Leno saw this as well. You would've been an idiot to not to see this. Not to mention most people are not going to watch 2 one hour long talk shows in one night.
There's a difference between making a profit and being successful. Sure, with Leno's show, the risk is low, but so is the reward. There's no way NBC would have ever climbed above fourth when one third of their nightly line up is a show that you'll only watch if nothing else to your liking is on.Plinko said:
Less viewers for Leno (especially at the end with musical guests) > less viewers for the local news (which is a large portion of the affiliate's revenue) > less viewers for Conan
mightynine
Member
Plinko said:
But the affiliates don't make the programming decisions - NBC execs do. And I can't believe you look at the mess they've made of this situation and think they don't get the majority of the blame.
Well, to be fair to Leno, he did leave the Tonight Show, and it was NBC who pressured Leno into leaving the Tonight Show because they didn't want to lose Conan. Then, Leno said that he didn't want to leave TV, and they were desperate not to lose him either, which is where they fucked up IMO. In the end, this deal screws over both Leno and Conan. No way could Leno be happy with having his show cut in half and moved out of prime time.Pezking said:
Man, some of you actually think this was some master plan by Leno to sabotage Conan? WTF? There are multiple reasons why the Tonight Show isn't doing well under Conan, having Leno as a lead in is just one of them.
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
KHarvey16 said:
1. It's common knowledge that O'Brien threatened to walk when his contract was up around 2004. He asked for the Tonight Show and NBC gave it to him.
2. Because Leno was on top in the ratings and content with his job. If Conan doesn't pull the stunt he did with the walkout threat, the pressure on Leno to retire isn't there.
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
mightynine said:
I don't think you understand local affiliates. If they so choose, they can opt to NOT show national programming. It rarely happens, but if they get mad enough, they will. Don't you remember the whole brouhaha in the fall with local affiliates threatening to not show Leno?
ConfusingJazz
Member
Plinko said:
I haven't really heard this outside of your posts. And only posts, no links have been provided.
DeathbyVolcano
Banned
Jesus Christ, Conan never threatened to leave NBC. He's had pleasant relationships with the NBC execs for years, and he made it known to them leading up to his contract expiring that other networks were calling and were interested. He wanted to know what NBC had to offer.
That isn't threatening. That's something people call "conversation."
That isn't threatening. That's something people call "conversation."
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
And when Leno threatens to walk if NBC doesn't keep him on the air in 2009 and 2010, it's mostly NBC affliates' fault and Leno is being unfairly treated. Strong argument.Plinko said:
Every pro-Leno argument keeps going on as if the man has no free will and can't make his own decisions. NBC is forcing him to play a card, and he's not playing it.
Also, Conan not having pulled this stunt in 2004 would have been the most dim-witted non-move ever. Conan not having an eye on his future would have required him to have completely ignored the Letterman drama from years before. He did what was right to determine if he should have stayed with NBC or left.
Intentional or not, Leno's show has sabotaged Conan on the tonight show.
TTS is where all the A list actors go. This has been split between TTS and the Leno show since they are both in LA. Getting the big name draws is a part of having a popular show. It must be strange to have to compete with another show for the same people when they are in town.
I think moving Conan back to New York would be a good idea. Then him and Leno wouldn't have to fight for the same actors when they are in LA.
TTS is where all the A list actors go. This has been split between TTS and the Leno show since they are both in LA. Getting the big name draws is a part of having a popular show. It must be strange to have to compete with another show for the same people when they are in town.
I think moving Conan back to New York would be a good idea. Then him and Leno wouldn't have to fight for the same actors when they are in LA.
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
KHarvey16 said:
1. http://www.nytimes.com/2004/09/27/business/media/28CND-NBC.html Here's the link of his contract signing--other companies were already talking with him about signing him at the end of his contract.
2. No, he doesn't...NBC negotiated it with him. As I said earlier, they get some of the blame as well.
Of course NBC shares a large portion of blame. No one is arguing otherwise. But to argue that Leno is blameless is ridiculous. Reread his quotes from 2004. The man is full of shit.Plinko said:
Leno is the only one who can make this go away. He either fucks over Conan or walks. I'm willing to put down the torch until he decides, but I have a feeling Ill be picking it up again.
KHarvey16 said:
Conan's ratings ARE the problem. If they were good, NBC would show Leno the door rather than swap him back.
NBC has a problem with Conan's ratings. The Tonight Show is now 65% lower than Letterman, where before it was routinely beating it by nearly a million viewers.
The Affiliates have a problem with Leno's ratings because it is a poor lead in for their 11PM news. NBC doesn't, because Leno's show costs so little compared to a prime-time drama and they don't care about ad spots in the news--the affiliates get to sell them.
He was getting better offers from other places, but he told them he'd rather have The Tonight Show. NBC AND Leno should have said something THEN if they weren't ready to go through with it.Plinko said:
And remember, the affiliates weren't on board for Leno's show from the start. It's really hard to believe NBC is so dense that they didn't see this coming. Everyone was telling them this is how it would go down. Low local news ratings.
Basically, NBC and CoCo agreed on MSN to have sex. NBC got all ready, but then at the last second decided a blow job from Jay would do. The GAF cries.
mightynine
Member
Plinko said:
Then once again, NBC execs are to blame for this mess - they could've told Conan then that the Tonight Show isn't an option.\
I like how this was a "walkout" threat in your mind. If he's getting better offers from other networks, what else can NBC offer but THE late-night franchise -The Tonight Show - either for him to want or for them to offer as a way to keep him?
DeathbyVolcano
Banned
Conan's ratings are an issue but they aren't the MAIN issue. Every reasonable person in this conversation knows it takes time and a strong lead-in to be successful at that time slot.
Just look at Conan's letter, he puts it best.
Just look at Conan's letter, he puts it best.
RiskyChris
Banned
Plinko said:
Affiliates have little to do with what has gone on, other than exist as a player with needs.
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
Tobor said:
Please post where I've said Leno is blameless. All I've done is try and get people to understand that it's not ALL his fault.
Of course, if he wanted to end this, he could by just saying "no thanks" to NBC (which is my preferred solution). That doesn't make him the catalyst and main reason for the entire fiasco.
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
RiskyChris said:
1. Leno's show hits the airwaves and keeps a rating acceptable to NBC executives.
2. Local affiliates become upset with Leno's ratings as a lead-in to their local news network.
3. NBC caves to affiliates and cancels Leno.
That's exactly the order that happened here.
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