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Late Night Wars - Conan's last Tonight Show was TONIGHT a long time ago

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Coolio McAwesome said:
You don't know what you are talking about.

READ THIS

This ordeal had nothing to due with Conan's ratings. The Jay Leno Show was an astounding failure and the affiliates threatened to revolt if NBC didn't cancel it. However, Leno's contract promised him a reported $150 million if his show was cancelled prematurely. The whole issue came down to the fact that it was cheaper to breach Conan's contract than it would have been to breach Leno's. If Conan had been posting high ratings for his entire run, it still would have been cheaper to breach his contract.
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BINGO! I almost want to quote this twice we should post it on the top of every new page for all the people who seem to come in periodically with their "facts".
 
Not to mention that NBC definitely didn't want to get rid of Conan and likely thought he'd move to 12:05 without much complaint.

Sloane said:
Then again, if Leno had moved to a different network instead of taking the show at 10pm -- do you think Conan's ratings would have been better, even with a decent lead-in, against Letterman AND Leno? I doubt it, and then he wouldn't have had any excuse at all.
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The thing is, if Leno had threatened to move to a different network back in 2004 when NBC was trying to figure out how to approach the situation, I doubt they would have only given him 5 years. They probably would have negotiated with him and given him a time frame that would guarantee that he would stay with them, and then afterwards not pose a threat.* Conan probably wouldn't stick around, but they'd have Leno (and his ratings) for much, much longer and could groom/find someone else in that time. And no one would feel cheated. Conan could have possibly even waited Leno out, depending on how antsy he really was and how badly he wanted to host The Tonight Show in his 50s.

* They had obviously thought that the agreed 5 years was enough, but then Leno went and fucked over everything by deciding, in fact, he didn't want to leave late night.
 
Gui_PT said:
People who enter this thread to blame Conan should at least be somewhat informed about the situation.
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Captain Sparrow does this every couple of pages. Posters have corrected his facts many times.
 
maharg said:
It's old, but it was on Hulu.
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But it's still blocked in Australia :lol

BTW, in the second-last week I ordered a bunch of stuff from the NBC website, yet have only received my Year 3000 t-shirts (no TTS caps or shirts). Anyone know if there's a backlog or do I have No Fucking Chance of getting them?
 
Shaneus said:
Anyone know if there's a backlog or do I have No Fucking Chance of getting them?
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I ordered my stuff the last night of his show. That night they disappeared off the site (saying they were backordered until the 15th of Feb.) The next day a lot of the stuff was put back up.

They had no problem charging me, so they better get my mug and shirt to me. God forbid I receive any Jay Leno shit, it will get ugly.
 
Captain Sparrow said:
This topic is starting to get ridiculous. Here are the facts:

- Leno was the king of late night
- Conan was losing to Letterman by a LONG shot, who Jay had consistently dominated
- The Jay Leno show was an experiment that failed. Still had more viewers that the tonight show with Conan.

I give him credit for going public about the issue and I felt he was being sincere. How many people lie and sugarcoat things?

Quit blaming nbc, quit blaming Leno, quit blaming DVR. The bottom line is Conan didn't have the ratings. Period. The public spoke with ratings. If they wanted Conan, we would still have Conan.

If I didn't perform at my job, I'd get fired. Who here can underperform but keep their job since it would be unfair to lose it?
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Read the thread....it helps....
 
DrEvil said:
You clearly hadn't watched Conan all that much then, seeing as he and Andy would always trade innuendo that was plain as day to pick up on.
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Must be later in the show, since I always turned it off when the first guest came out, since it was really late. But I did watch every show they did, the first half.
 
BrandNew said:
Then you must have an odd definition of "dirty."
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I try to remember all the dirty things he has done, and those were clips of his old Late Show or that skit of the male strippers dancing for the audience. Also, the second to last episode.

Other than that, I don't remember much dirty in his monologue and following bit.
 
Jewbacca said:
Jay can totally suck a dick, however you guys have to keep in mind that Jay has a staff that is probably 150+ that went a long with him too. So whatever decision he makes affects more than him. So I would let off on bashing him so much and start bashing him and NBC collectively.

That said...
I still dont like him and would rather Conan keep The Tonight Show and Jay go hump cars, but hey thats me.
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I cringe whenever Leno mentions his staff as an attempt to justify it all. Conan's staff is probably the same size, and there's a few key differences.

Leno's staff were warned 5 years ahead of time that they weren't going to keep their job in 5 years. Sure, 2009 wasn't a good time to be working in TV, but they had 5 whole years to be ready for unemployment.

Conan's staff had to move from NY to LA. And it was to work on one of the longest-running institutions in television, helmed by the youngest host of a first-round late night network talk show. They had every right to believe their job would be secure for, at the very least, 10 years. They got fired after 7 months.

I'm pretty sure Conan's staff got a rawer deal than Leno's due to Leno's bumbling. And that's not even mentioning the 5 one-hour shows that never happened because of TJLS.

And if Leno had just been honest about not wanting to give up the Tonight Show, Conan wouldn't have done 5 extra years at 12:30 for lower pay, and his staff wouldn't have had to uproot only to get fired 7 months later.
 
Captain Sparrow said:
- Conan was losing to Letterman by a LONG shot, who Jay had consistently dominated
et fired. Who here can underperform but keep their job since it would be unfair to lose it?
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Conan beat Letterman in 18-34, tied him in 18-49 (the important one), and lost in total viewers. I would not call this a LONG shot by any stretch.

Actually, I just remembered -- I think if you take the averages for the 7 months The Tonight Show with Conan was on, Conan wins in every demo. Sure, Letterman was ahead in total viewers for all but 3 weeks, but it was close enough that Conan's last week actually put him over in the averages.

So no, certainly not a long shot/
 
DrEvil said:
The Leno show had far less viewers than Conan's Tonight show.. lol "The Jay Leno Show" at 10pm was a huge failure in ratings.

Leno's "tonight show" had more viewers than Conan's "tonight show", but that's the ONLY time he wins the ratings war vs. conan.


You should get your facts straight before stating them as such.
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You should too. Leno's 10pm show was a failure in ratings, but it had more viewers than the Tonight Show. It's numbers were too small for prime time, which is why it's a failure. Conan's smaller number was solid for his time slot.
 
My god at the comments on youtube about all of this. Leno fans are so old and janked they can't even formulate solid arguments. "Conan became a liberal comedian and stole all his material from Jon Stewart." Wha...what?

psyduck.gif
 
BrandNew said:
My god at the comments on youtube about all of this. Leno fans are so old and janked they can't even formulate solid arguments. "Conan became a liberal comedian and stole all his material from Jon Stewart." Wha...what?

psyduck.gif
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Wow. I'm surprised they knew how to get on the internet at all.
 
BrandNew said:
My god at the comments on youtube about all of this. Leno fans are so old and janked they can't even formulate solid arguments. "Conan became a liberal comedian and stole all his material from Jon Stewart." Wha...what?
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:lol
Tell me that's a joke please!
 
I'm surprised I haven't posted this yet, but another thing I'd do if I were Conan (provided he gets a new talk show on FOX) -- guest-write an episode of the Simpsons scheduled to air the Sunday before his talk show. I'm sure he wouldn't have a problem writing an episode as good as the show was in its prime, and it'd be amazing cross-promotion for his new show.

The hype would be through the roof.
 
Personifried said:
I'm surprised I haven't posted this yet, but another thing I'd do if I were Conan (provided he gets a new talk show on FOX) -- guest-write an episode of the Simpsons scheduled to air the Sunday before his talk show. I'm sure he wouldn't have a problem writing an episode as good as the show was in its prime, and it'd be amazing cross-promotion for his new show.

The hype would be through the roof.
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This is such a good idea I think I might write him a letter urging him to do so.
 
Personifried said:
I'm surprised I haven't posted this yet, but another thing I'd do if I were Conan (provided he gets a new talk show on FOX) -- guest-write an episode of the Simpsons scheduled to air the Sunday before his talk show. I'm sure he wouldn't have a problem writing an episode as good as the show was in its prime, and it'd be amazing cross-promotion for his new show.

The hype would be through the roof.
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I think the season premier of the Simpsons is usually in late October, so it'd be about 2 months after his talk show could start.
 
sharbhund said:
I think the season premier of the Simpsons is usually in late October, so it'd be about 2 months after his talk show could start.
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Ah. Well still, I think signing Conan to anchor a legit late night lineup is a big enough deal to warrant a special Simpsons deal.
 
I wonder if he's allowed to do any filming for any putative show before the September timeline pop ups.

I would love to see him travel the US and the world to film remotes, that he could film and store up and play once a week when his show starts. Some of his most popular bits are remotes. Conan in Alaska. Conan in Japan. Conan in Australia. Conan in India. So many possibilities...

Anybody remember when one of his writers went to India to get tech support?
http://www.livevideo.com/video/990698F41C144A1EB2B36DEE2450C855/Call+center+fun.aspx
 
Personifried said:
Ah. Well still, I think signing Conan to anchor a legit late night lineup is a big enough deal to warrant a special Simpsons deal.
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Failing that, even a 30-second promo that airs constantly the week beforehand would work!
 
Captain Sparrow said:
Quit blaming nbc, quit blaming Leno, quit blaming DVR. The bottom line is Conan didn't have the ratings. Period. The public spoke with ratings. If they wanted Conan, we would still have Conan.
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WRONG!
It was Letterman & especially Leno stealing all his ratings.

Just watch when Fall comes he will destroy both of them in ratings. He also has the entire internet behind him now, that's like a billion people that will watch.
 
Just watch when Fall comes he will destroy both of them in ratings. He also has the entire internet behind him now, that's like a billion people that will watch.
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As much as I'd love that to happen, it won't. He'll get beaten in total viewers by both, but he'll win in the 18-49, just like he was. Fox picking him up won't be to beat Leno/Letterman, it'll be to be surpreme after those two are done.
 
Socreges said:
Not to mention that NBC definitely didn't want to get rid of Conan and likely thought he'd move to 12:05 without much complaint.

The thing is, if Leno had threatened to move to a different network back in 2004 when NBC was trying to figure out how to approach the situation, I doubt they would have only given him 5 years. They probably would have negotiated with him and given him a time frame that would guarantee that he would stay with them, and then afterwards not pose a threat.* Conan probably wouldn't stick around, but they'd have Leno (and his ratings) for much, much longer and could groom/find someone else in that time. And no one would feel cheated. Conan could have possibly even waited Leno out, depending on how antsy he really was and how badly he wanted to host The Tonight Show in his 50s.

* They had obviously thought that the agreed 5 years was enough, but then Leno went and fucked over everything by deciding, in fact, he didn't want to leave late night.
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Leno shouldn't have to leave late night because his time on The Tonight Show was up, but he should have left The Tonight Show and NBC behind. Leno must be so fixated on The Tonight Show that he could not have given it up without wanting it back. Combine this with NBCs fear of Leno leaving and they both had a disaster waiting to happen.
 
BrandNew said:
As much as I'd love that to happen, it won't. He'll get beaten in total viewers by both, but he'll win in the 18-49, just like he was. Fox picking him up won't be to beat Leno/Letterman, it'll be to be surpreme after those two are done.
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The other thing to keep in mind is, FOX is basically going to have to create an infastructure that currently doesn't exist for them. They will have to convince affliliates to carry Conan at 11, which right now, in my local market, has syndicated programming.

I do think that Conan will (obviously) enjoy a ratings spike upfront, as there will be a lot of curiosity and the Late Night debate will be re-opened. Once things get into a regular groove, we'll be able to see how Conan will do.

I have no doubt FOX will market the hell out of it, in fact, I wouldn't be surprised if there was a teaser of some sorts during the Superbowl.

Should be interesting.
 
BrandNew said:
There's no way they have an ad during the Super Bowl. :lol It's on CBS this year.
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You never know.

What better way to announce to the world that they are gonna be a major player in the fall?


"Didn't like their brand of Coco?

Try ours, starting Sept. 1."

conanonfox.com
 
After watching the Zucker interview with Charlie Rose, the Oprah interview, and the after show discussion with the audience, I have a little more sympathy for Jay. NBC fucked up big time by initiating the late night change 5 years ago.
 
I asked my mom what she thought of the whole Leno/Conan thing the other day, and she said "well, I've never liked Conan, but I think he really got shafted."

So yeah, not everybody who prefers Leno blindly thinks Conan deserved what he got.
 
ruffles said:
After watching the Zucker interview with Charlie Rose, the Oprah interview, and the after show discussion with the audience, I have a little more sympathy for Jay. NBC fucked up big time by initiating the late night change 5 years ago.
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1zvzf6c.jpg


"I'm good, aren't I?"
 
I don't understand how posting truth is trolling.

http://www.thrfeed.com/2010/01/conan-obrien-beats-jay-leno-in-thursday-ratings.html

NBC had the TV network "Sophie's Choice": Do you keep the guy people watch? Or the guy that people like?

"Jay Leno Show" has consistently drawn higher average ratings than "Tonight Show with Conan O'Brien."

Yet media and TV fans tend to be more enthusiastic about the creative O'Brien, and hunt for reasons to vilify the traditional Leno.

Since their shows became publicly endangered, however, this narrative has shifted. Ratings for "Leno Show" and "Tonight Show" are telling a clear story: Fans are rallying behind O'Brien.

When rumors first hit that Leno's 10 p.m. show might get canceled, 'Leno Show' actually went down in the ratings. And since, Leno's numbers have been average at best.

Yet Conan's ratings are edging up, up, up ... climbing the last three nights.

Based on preliminary metered-market estimates, on Thursday night O'Brien drew a 1.9 in the adult demo -- nearly double his usual average. That's 27% higher number at 11:35 p.m. than Jay Leno, who drew a 1.5 using the same type of measurement, earned at 10 p.m. This is also the lowest-rated Thursday "Leno Show" episode to date in the preliminary nationals (1.3).

NBC research is unsure, but this might be the first time O'Brien has ever beat Leno in their current slots.

NBC Universal sports chairman Dick Ebersol may have picked the wrong day to bash O'Brien's show as "an astounding failure."

On the other hand: O'Brien's bump is clearly driven by the headlines rather than an organic rise in popularity. Such gains in late night are almost always temporary.

Even as reports continue to swirl that Leno will take over "Tonight Show," NBC has to wonder if it's betting on the wrong horse. This a crucial point. After a slew of disastrous late-night decisions, this is one call that NBC must get right.
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Here is Leno's horrible ratings in detail.

http://screenrant.com/hows-jay-leno-show-faring-days-brusimm-32438/

Despite all the hoopla and what appeared to be NBC directives of enforced support for The Jay Leno Show, and pulling scripted dramas en masse, The Jay Leno Show is not faring as well as could be expected.

NBC made a reasonable pitch, declaring how different the show would be… if you count pulling the desk off the set and rearranging the same routines as different, then fine, it’s different. Otherwise, I’m not sure what the change is. And to boot, viewers aren’t impressed.

At least it doesn’t look good from last Monday night where The Jay Leno Show pulled in 4.6 million viewers… and was bested by everything on the air except One Tree Hill on The CW, Gossip Girl, again from The CW and, well… huh. That’s it.

Dancing with the Stars, at its peak, had 18.4 million viewers and took the night, but in the very same time slot that Leno sat, his 4.6 million viewers did not compete against a rerun of CSI: Miami, which drew in 11.2 million viewers, and Castle was right behind CSI: Miami, with 11.1 million viewers soundly trouncing Leno.

I think that if the show had actually been different, it might have had a chance. Now what do they do? Stay happy that they’re beating The CW soundly and stick by their guns, despite how much money they dropped on Jay? Or start looking to actually make real changes to the show?

What changes? I don’t know. Maybe they need to put Jay in Heroes and give him a mutation power of the gift of insight.
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NBC was stupid for expecting Jay Leno to "perform" in that timeslot.

Hopefully I don't need to post links that Letterman was killing Conan, but Leno killed Letterman as Tonight Show host? You believe that right?

Yes Jay's termination came with a bigger fine than Conan's. That has ZERO relevance.

I must ask now. Who is trolling?
 
"Jay Leno Show" has consistently drawn higher average ratings than "Tonight Show with Conan O'Brien."
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The 10 PM show that is like nothing else in it's timeslot that came with a pre-established audience did better than the fledgling show that began 3 months earlier at 11:30 PM up against a similar show with decades of established viewers behind it? Really?


You don't say.
 
Captain Sparrow said:
Yes Jay's termination came with a bigger fine than Conan's. That has ZERO relevance.
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Are you actually implying that NBC being faced with a potential $150 penalty for cancelling the Jay Leno Show had ZERO relevance? Is that really what you're suggesting!? If you don't think $150 million had any bearing on NBC's decision then you obviously don't understand how business works.
 
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