• Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!

Late to the party: Uncharted 2

Status
Not open for further replies.

AniHawk

Member
I beat Uncharted 2 today, about 3 hours ago. Before yesterday, I had not played a Naughty Dog game for more than 20 minutes (so, discounting demos) in over 6 years. I went in with the lowest of expectations and I'm glad I did. Oh, and spoilers and such.

First things first, it's still the type of game Jak II was. EDIT: You're going to see a bit of references to Jak II in this paragraph and the next only because it's the most recent ND game I've played and it's the only thing of theirs I can compare it to without going back to Crash Bandicoot. It continues the line of thinking that was started with Jak II that gamers need to care about getting to the end of the game, and the only way to do that is with story instead of well-crafted puzzles and obstacles that become progressively more difficult to achieve, but give the player satisfaction for doing so (and therefore making them want to complete the next obstacle). So Uncharted 2 was unfortunately but at least obviously designed with this mindest from the very start. Unlike Jak II, I knew what I was getting into here.

Also unlike Jak II, this was a well-crafted experience for the most part. It feels like whoever was in charge of Jak II either understood what truly went wrong, or simply was fired from the company. If you're going to make this type of game, it makes much more sense to present it in a very linear fashion, so you feel like you're part of this story that's moving forward (unlike Jak II where you're kinda meandering about this city designed by dumb people).

The game is really gorgeous, and I'm glad I got some HDMI cables back during my playthrough of A Crack in Time. It's really refreshing to see a current gen title that's not afraid to mix in some color with its overabundance of shooting. The animation is top-notch here too, but that's to be expected from Naughty Dog, and especially in a game where story is the main focus above all else. The only thing I disliked, and gradually got used to, were the characters. Man, there are some ugly (Flynn, Nathan) and scary (Chloe) looking characters in this game. I think the first guy I saw who actually looked like a person was Karl. Still, it's a step up from the hideous UEIII humans you see everywhere, and again, the animation is so good you eventually stop caring about their looks because the performances are so realistic.

My favorite parts of the game were always the platformingish bits. My favorite had to be Mountaineering and Heart of Ice. It was pretty much uninterrupted problem solving. I do think Naughty Dog was pretty vague in where to go for a lot of it though, and the game didn't really push the boundaries of what could have been done (part of this is thanks to the story, because it gets pretty crazy for the world of Uncharted 2). There were actually more platforming bits than I expected though, and some was even integrated into the boring shooting parts. Although even then, not all of the shooting was boring, but when you clear an area and Your Buddy says "Oh no! Reinforcements!" it kinda kills that feeling of satisfaction you just had. And some segments just drag on for-fucking-ever. By this, I mean more of the shooting in the city in the first half of the game, and less of the part that was Siege and so on.

Finally, the writing was bad, and this is kind of a big thing for a game where story goes first. I guess we should start off with dialogue. For the first half of the game it goes:
Nathan: Quip quip quip
Flynn: Quip quip?
Chloe: Quip!!
Nathan: Quip quip lol quip quip
And boy does it grate. Everyone is so fucking clever. Between Sully, Nathan, Flynn, and Chloe, I was hoping one of them would get it between the eyes. Flynn especially seemed like too much of a buddy for someone who would betray you. Later, the game kinda let up on everybody being a sarcastic asshole, especially once Elena joined up. I still don't know what exactly Nathan Drake does and why, but we don't really need to know that in the latter half of the game anyway.

Lazarevic seemed to just be there because they needed an asshole villain. Gotta say he was at least a step above Praxis, and thank god no villain from nowhere came out to take his spotlight. He was pretty fucking cliche though- yelling "DRRAAAAAAAAAKE" in the final boss fight, giving the "we're the same" speech (which was almost a facepalm moment). I guess he wanted power because he was crazy. Okay, I can buy that, but the whole "save the world!!!" stuff that comes at the end is stupid. I almost wanted Nathan to turn to the camera and say "because we're self-aware."

Also, everything is just TOO GODDAMN CONVENIENT for Nathan. Just so happens there's a gun capable of downing a helicopter on a train! Just so happens there's five propane tanks in the only train car Nathan's able to hobble over to! Just so happens he's rescued just after he finishes walking with a bullet in his gut in freezing temperatures and collapses in snow!

Back to Flynn for a bit, he's a dick. He's not even a guy I'd love to hate. I'd hate to love to hate that guy. And he seems only to exist for a woman in a refrigerator moment that comes at the very end of the game when he blows himself up because the story decided to stop making sense.

On the plus side, at least some funny stuff happens, and some of the non-shooting scenes are different from the platforming parts (like running from the mercs with a wounded John). I enjoyed the ending, and what really scares Nathan Drake. That banter at the end felt much less forced than the stuff at the beginning. Also, I can buy the whole Mutant Supermen thing after the Mutant Monster things were revealed to be fake. Mutant Supermen were such a step down on the scale of crazy stuff that came out of nowhere and didn't belong in the game that I didn't mind their inclusion. I could have also understood the water/sap acting as some sort of drug, but healing scars? That's bullshit.

I have to say though, despite my opinion about the story and how big a focus it is in this game, I really appreciated the initial back and forth and catching up to a rock and a hard place. Drake's hand puppet show about Flynn's betrayal was probably the funniest thing in the game too.

As a side note: I couldn't help but be reminded of Jak II's final boss when fighting Lazarevic. That game had you run in a circle while shooting at it to kill it. It felt like this was a better designed version of that, with the exploding tree sap adding to the strategy.

Overall, I enjoyed the game. On a scale of one to ten, it'd get something like a six or seven from me (so above average or good). And that's way more than can be said about Jak II. This game had fantastic animation and acting, good graphics, and good platforming bits that went a long way to keeping me interested for 9.5 hours. I said before that ND was full of talentless hacks. Well, they're not. At least not anymore. They're clearly a bunch of really talented folks simply pointed in the wrong direction.
 
Yeah, a lot of the dialogue was pretty cliche, but I'm pretty sure Naughty Dog knew that.

They were, after all, trying to give you the action-movie experience in a video game. Cheesy dialogue is a must.
 
Dogenzaka said:
Yeah, a lot of the dialogue was pretty cliche, but I'm pretty sure Naughty Dog knew that.

They were, after all, trying to give you the action-movie experience in a video game. Cheesy dialogue is a must.

Well I did kinda like the whole "how many people did you kill... just today?" thing when at the beginning of the game Nathan didn't want to shoot a gun. Of course, that was a difference of hired guns versus guards, but Nathan still murders at least one of the guards by sending him to a watery grave (Flynn had an unexpectedly funny line for that).
 
speculawyer said:
AniHawk
Cranky. Very cranky.
Rather sarcastic to boot.
(Today, 10:33 PM)
Reply | Quote

Actually I'm feeling pretty good right now. I didn't like everything about the game, but I wasn't expecting greatness. This isn't Jak II. I don't hate it.
 
AniHawk said:
Well I did kinda like the whole "how many people did you kill... just today?" thing when at the beginning of the game Nathan didn't want to shoot a gun. Of course, that was a difference of hired guns versus guards, but Nathan still murders at least one of the guards by sending him to a watery grave (Flynn had an unexpectedly funny line for that).
You can actually watch that guy swim away if you look down
 
2009-10-23-Penny-Arcade.jpg
 
I thought the storyline was very weak. I was fine with the dialogue and character interaction, all that was really well done, but the story had some serious ADD and was extremely unbalanced. But I'm just talking about the actual narrative; the pacing, direction, action sequences and environments were all incredible. I just didn't feel that the storyline was anything worth writing home about. The first game definitely had a better plot, I think. That said, the story was absolutely the only thing I didn't think was amazing.
 
I think Uncharted 2 is very overrated and I agree with 20% of your post, mostly with your ending, "they're clearly a bunch of really talented folks simply pointed in the wrong direction".

But the rest, wow, just wow. Especially talentless hacks line. :lol
 
Himuro said:
That's every game ever.

I don't play Sonic the Hedgehog 2 17 years later because I want to take down Robotnik again, I do it for the challenge and the level design.

And I don't think having story in your game is a bad thing, but it needs to be integrated into the gameplay. It doesn't even need to be a huge way of doing it (like what Bioware does by making the player part of the choice in conversations and the like). Beyond Good & Evil had a couple really cool moments that made you feel like you were more connected to the character. I'm not sure how you do that in a game like Uncharted 2 though, where it's much more realistic.
 
How can you be late for a party that is still going on?

NeoGAF has been Uncharted 2 crazy since it came out. It's definitely the first game I pick up when I finally buy a PS3. Apart from a few screenshots on here, I have no idea what to expect.
 
Which difficulty setting were you playing at? The shooting bits are far more enjoyable on hard and crushing. On easy/ normal they are just boring. And if you play stealthy, there will be far less soldiers to fight against. Also if you go treasure hunting it adds a bit to the platforming side of the game. Anyway you gonna go for UC1 now?
 
I liked the platforming and exploration parts of the game way better than the parts where you kill 800 dudes. Really wish they'd balanced it out a little so Drake didn't seem like a mass murderer by the end.

I thought the story and dialogue were pretty good for a video game though.
 
Himuro said:
The story isn't even the focus and the game merges gameplay with story muliple times.

I just...I don't get it.

The story is very much the focus of the game. The whole idea of Uncharted is pretty much being a blockbuster movie. I really don't see Uncharted being designed with these really crazy puzzles in mind with a story written around them later.

I guess the parts that kinda merge with the gameplay are assisting John (or was it Jeff?) and solving the puzzles those three times the entire game. But what I'm talking about more are examples from BGE. Both happen near the end of the game.
One is when you simply see Jade's pictures published, exposing the whole conspiracy, and they're your pictures, the ones you as a player took. Another happens during the final boss fight, where Jade is disoriented. The effect is this green haze on the screen that makes it difficult to see. The controls suddenly switch on the player. So now Jade's lack of clarity is also the player's. They're both really small things, but they connect the player to the main character and what's going on in the story so well.

For the record, I don't think this game is overrated. I can totally see where a lot of people love this game. I just don't agree with it.
 
RamzaIsCool said:
Which difficulty setting were you playing at? The shooting bits are far more enjoyable on hard and crushing. On easy/ normal they are just boring. And if you play stealthy, there will be far less soldiers to fight against. Also if you go treasure hunting it adds a bit to the platforming side of the game. Anyway you gonna go for UC1 now?

Yeah, I didn't play on hard. I did play stealthy though- that was fun. There were a couple moments where I took out the first area by simply snapping necks. I'm probably not gonna go for UC1, but I might be interested in UC3.
 
I bet you guys can't enjoy a movie, book or game that doesn't have Shakespeare like writing, uh?

The story and dialogs were fine in U2, you guys think of this way to much. If you want realistic dialog go and talk a friend or a random person, that is realistic dialog.

Geez... =/
 
-DarKaoZ- said:
I bet you guys can't enjoy a movie, book or game that doesn't have Shakespeare like writing, uh?

The story and dialogs were fine in U2, you guys think of this way to much. If you want realistic dialog go and talk a friend or a random person, that is realistic dialog.

Geez... =/
:lol
 
ITT: We discover the true meaning of a back-handed compliment.

But, truly, thanks for being the final arbiter of whether Naughty Dog were talentless hacks or not. The game industry was waiting with baited breath on your final ruling.
 
AniHawk said:
Also, everything is just TOO GODDAMN CONVENIENT for Nathan. Just so happens there's a gun capable of downing a helicopter on a train! Just so happens there's five propane tanks in the only train car Nathan's able to hobble over to! Just so happens he's rescued just after he finishes walking with a bullet in his gut in freezing temperatures and collapses in snow!


Every single video game is too goddamn convenient. This is something we have to expect out of video games and to a lesser extent hollywood movies. There's always turrets at the points where enemies rush you, and the only unlocked doors are always the right way to go....

I can agree with the rest of your points, although I don't feel a cliche'd story is a negative. It's like popcorn stuff; anything other than humans VS aliens is refreshing in my books.
 
AniHawk said:
I don't play Sonic the Hedgehog 2 17 years later because I want to take down Robotnik again, I do it for the challenge and the level design.

And I don't think having story in your game is a bad thing, but it needs to be integrated into the gameplay. It doesn't even need to be a huge way of doing it (like what Bioware does by making the player part of the choice in conversations and the like). Beyond Good & Evil had a couple really cool moments that made you feel like you were more connected to the character. I'm not sure how you do that in a game like Uncharted 2 though, where it's much more realistic.
You want talking head dialogue with arbitrary choices for your gameplay?
 
Yoboman said:
You want talking head dialogue with arbitrary choices for your gameplay?

No, that's why I said it didn't need to be that.

hatchx said:
Every single video game is too goddamn convenient. This is something we have to expect out of video games and to a lesser extent hollywood movies. There always seems to be a turret at the point where enemies rush you, and the only unlocked doors are always the right way to go....

I guess it really bugged me because those three examples happened almost back to back to back. Some of the other stuff I didn't question, like the coincidence that Elena was in the same area at the same time going after the guy going after Nathan.
 
AniHawk said:
No, that's why I said it didn't need to be that.
I got the feeling you were implying that was the right way to do gameplay with story on a "huge" scale.. Guess I misread

Personally I appreciate any game that doesn't feel the need to take me away from the gameplay to push story elements and set pieces forward. Even if it's just character banter
 
-DarKaoZ- said:
I bet you guys can't enjoy a movie, book or game that doesn't have Shakespeare like writing, uh?

The story and dialogs were fine in U2, you guys think of this way to much. If you want realistic dialog go and talk a friend or a random person, that is realistic dialog.

Geez... =/
I don't even know where to begin with you. I may love the dialogue and story in Uncharted 2, but get apoplectic when people want better-than-predictable dialogue in a game? Say what now?

Uncharted 2 was campy, simplistic and ridiculous, and its characters lack dimension. It just completely works because the acting is excellent and it's not aiming to be anything more than like the actioneering serials of the 1930s and '40s that Indiana Jones aped so well, where the good guys are unquestioningly good, the bad guys are always utter evil and the hero always gets the girl. Some people are into that; some people aren't. As for me, I'm just curious as to where Uncharted 3 is going to go from here. Again, there's so little dimension to these characters and the unbelievable characterizations scenarios are stretched so thin in UC2 that I'm worried they've painted themselves into a corner. Uncharted 1 worked; Uncharted 2 still worked because it was better; but if Uncharted 3 is the same simplicity, I'm going to be disappointed.

Not like any of this changes the fact that UC2 is my Game of the Year, though. :P

PS: come on, Ani. You know as well as I do that you need to wait six months before you're "late to the party." :|
 
Play U1, it has more natural dialog, better story, different level design (so it wont be as samey) and it never drags. I like it more than 2 in some ways, although 2 has some really memorable moments and tighter gameplay.
 
I AM JOHN! said:
PS: come on, Ani. You know as well as I do that you need to wait six months before you're "late to the party." :|

I swear to god I just simply got the math wrong. I went over it in my head several times that October-February was 6 months, not 5.

Speevy said:
I'm sure they'll give back all the game of the year awards after reading your post.

I sure hope so because I secretly hate this game with a passion.
 
AniHawk said:
bits than I expected though, and some was even integrated into the boring shooting parts. Although even then, not all of the shooting was boring, but when you clear an area and Your Buddy says "Oh no! Reinforcements!" it kinda kills that feeling of satisfaction you just had. And some segments just drag on for-fucking-ever. By this, I mean more of the shooting in the city in the first half of the game, and less of the part that was Siege and so on.


Don't play the first game.

After about 50% of Uncharted 2, I was thinking "Yes, this is great, there's barely been any of those stupid enemy arenas like the first game."

Then, as if the disc could read my mind, but only bits of it. Like, it only could decipher "...great....enemy arenas" and it replied "What's that? You want enemy arenas?! Here you gooooooooo!"

Talk about a downer. That, along with the horrible ending section (along with the enemy arenas, the fact it took about 10 damn bullets to kill someone was the worst part of the first game. They took it another step with those fake monsters) and the annoying boss battle, I sort of finished the game with a bad taste in my mouth. Other than that I really enjoyed it.
 
Look I know the writings not amazing, but honestly what games have better writing? Games never have good clever writing, it always goes a little to far with all the cliches of writing.
 
Yeah, you're really late to the party. It's not like the game has an active Official thread or anything. I kinda wish everyone would make a lttp thread for every game they ever play.
 
First off I think it's sad that people feel the need to attack anyone who makes negative comments like this. Respond to his arguments rationally please.

Secondly while I liked the game a lot more than you I recognize that a lot of your complaints are valid. I do think it's interesting that the game is good enough that it makes standard video game tropes more problematic since they clash all the more with the realistic bits. I mentioned this in a thread a while back about how the endless killing in Uncharted 1 doesn't really mesh with Drake's character.
 
I'm so glad I can just enjoy games without picking them apart. Especially a game that has me so completely enthralled that I finish the whole thing in one or two sittings. Just because I can't put the damn controller down. Uncharted 2 was one of those games. Absolutely a joy to play from start to finish.

You're entitled to your opinion, but let's just say I don't agree with it at all and leave it at that. I guess this is the official "Uncharted 2 ain't all that thread of nonconformity."
 
AniHawk said:
The story is very much the focus of the game. The whole idea of Uncharted is pretty much being a blockbuster movie. I really don't see Uncharted being designed with these really crazy puzzles in mind with a story written around them later.

I guess the parts that kinda merge with the gameplay are assisting John (or was it Jeff?) and solving the puzzles those three times the entire game. But what I'm talking about more are examples from BGE. Both happen near the end of the game.
One is when you simply see Jade's pictures published, exposing the whole conspiracy, and they're your pictures, the ones you as a player took. Another happens during the final boss fight, where Jade is disoriented. The effect is this green haze on the screen that makes it difficult to see. The controls suddenly switch on the player. So now Jade's lack of clarity is also the player's. They're both really small things, but they connect the player to the main character and what's going on in the story so well.

For the record, I don't think this game is overrated. I can totally see where a lot of people love this game. I just don't agree with it.
I think that some of the "active setpieces" or whatever they were calling them might fall into this. I personally thought they hit the transitions to cutscenes, balance of playable to non-playable bits, and length of non-interactive pieces perfectly. It is the single best paced video game I have ever played. They must have been absolutely brutal in eliminating fluff that wasn't required and I am very grateful to the staff of Naughty Dog for doing so.
 
AniHawk said:
...but Nathan still murders at least one of the guards by sending him to a watery grave (Flynn had an unexpectedly funny line for that).

Someone should do a count on how many people have got this wrong.
 
Visceir said:
Someone should do a count on how many people have got this wrong.

Yeah, I never saw him swim. I think I just got up right away after that. That's actually a cool little detail.
 
I wanted to show a family member what the best video game graphics looked like, so I turned on Uncharted.

She said "Looks like a cartoon." and walked out. What does that have to do with anything? Well, not much, except that you're asking a game which has you jeep-hopping to make more sense.

And...it's pretty well established that every game has and deserves its critics, but Uncharted is as strong a genre entry as I've ever seen. It (at the very least) defies unflattering comparison to other action/adventure games with shooting elements.
 
AniHawk said:
It continues the line of thinking that was started with Jak II that gamers need to care about getting to the end of the game, and the only way to do that is with story instead of well-crafted puzzles and obstacles that become progressively more difficult to achieve, but give the player satisfaction for doing so (and therefore making them want to complete the next obstacle).

Lols!

This is perhaps the worst way to start a video game diatribe, at least from what I've encountered thus far on GAF. Joke thread. Has to be.

2008_07_08-winecheese.jpg
 
Yeah, I didn't get the whole Jak II connection either. The only thing these two games share are the number 2. And they were both dev'd by ND.
 
Well they (Amy IIRC) did say that was what they were going for with the story. They wanted it to be light-hearted and have that sort of cliche'd pulp-action B movie type of vibe. It's supposed to be witty and spunky. I guess you didnt like that too much but it's not like they tried to make this a super involving/multi-leveled/deep story and failed. They wanted just enough to keep the player moving forward.

So yes, everything is convenient for the characters and they always get out of bad situations and they are sarcastic and have witty dialogue....and the boss is cliched and bent on destruction...etc etc etc

But that was the point. It's a proven formula for Summer-Action movies and thats what they wanted and they succeeded.
 
AniHawk said:
They're clearly a bunch of really talented folks simply pointed in the wrong direction.

One of the few points I agreed with. I enjoyed the game. There are minor points to pick apart here and there(why do I still have to run around the battlefield after a shootout to collect all the ammo manually? Why didn't they make some of the climbable platforms/objects easier to notice so I don't spend time wondering where the fuck to go next), but considering how well crafted and polished it is over all... it would be nitpicking.

My problem is, like you said, the direction they went with. In making the game as close to a movie experience as possible, too many mechanics have become automated and ultimately are some amorphous interactive thing.

Remember that time there was a really tough sequence of jumps that was hard to do? Oh that's right, it didn't happen. It's impossible to miss a jump in Uncharted 2 as long as you're jumping in the one spot they meant for you to jump to.

How about those creative puzzles that you had to systematically solve that made perfect sense when everything finally clicked into place? OH, that's right, all you have to do is check your journal for the exact instructions. Those huge scalable castle and temple walls...well, you get the picture.

The only place where you could possibly figure out a strategy or feel any sort of actual involvement beyond an almost tv remote-like interaction is during the shootouts. And they're loads of fun and take advantage of the flexibility in the Uncharted engine.(unlike the first game which turned into Gears of War every time there was a shoot out)

So yea: gorgeous, cinematic, well paced, entertaining all the way through. But a lot of the core mechanics that I look for in games have been locked in a closet somewhere, deemed unimportant in the quest to achieve an Indiana Jones movie with a controller.

It's hard to criticize because it's such a good game in so many ways, just not to my taste, I guess.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom