• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Latest Steam Controller design spotted in client beta?

ashecitism

Member
Jun 29, 2013
17,990
22
0
Hungary
This seems like an even worse solution. I thought the 'touchwheels' were to replace thumbstick controls?? The symmetrical buttons seemed superior. Eh, now every control scheme is gonna default that thumbstick for movement and it will negate the supposed 'mouse-like' precision the touchy circles have?
Why would using that stick for movement negate the precision of aiming? Use the stick for movement and use the right pad for looking around.
 

solarus

Member
Oct 24, 2009
4,358
0
0
Most of these mouse and keyboard games wouldnt work on a big screen anyway, even with this controller, the ui is not designed for that. It all ends up looking really tiny usually, unless its a console port.
 

Orayn

Member
Jul 4, 2010
34,290
3
690
Minnesota
But you don't control movement with a mouse, you do it with WASD.

That's what I've always thought was so stupid about this design. It's two mice, pointless.
Dual trackpads are meant to accommodate games with multiple kinds of mouse-type actions. A game with native support could use the left pad to pan the camera (click and drag) while the right pad can independently move the cursor around the screen.
 

Leafhopper

Banned
May 15, 2014
15,165
1
0
Fuck Evilore
leafhopper.flavors.me
I really want this hard.

Mass Effect trilogy couch PC gaming here I come.

Also, FUCK THE D-PAD.

I don't play fighting games, so I don't need it, the touchpad will be good enough replacement for it for every nonfighting game.
So because you don't need it other people don't? And yes, D-pads only exist for fighting games, even though I love them, that's the only reason a D-pad exists in this day and age.
Nailed it.

That said it is sad they are making just another "not 360 controller" at this point.
 

Denton

Member
Mar 11, 2014
5,802
454
495
If you ever change something with the intention of making it better, that means the whole thing was a bad idea and you should just give up. As an engineer, I find nothing wrong with this statement.
Made me laugh, thanks for that.

Some of the posts here are mindboggling.
 

Tobor

Member
Sep 15, 2006
41,042
0
0
Most of these mouse and keyboard games wouldnt work on a big screen anyway, even with this controller, the ui is not designed for that. It all ends up looking really tiny usually, unless its a console port.
Yes, they would. There is already video of it working beautifully.
 

ashecitism

Member
Jun 29, 2013
17,990
22
0
Hungary
Most of these mouse and keyboard games wouldnt work on a big screen anyway, even with this controller, the ui is not designed for that. It all ends up looking really tiny usually, unless its a console port.
This is an issue devs like Paradox and CA have recognized, I assume they're working on BP UIs.
 

Sir TapTap

Member
Jun 17, 2014
19,094
0
425
USA
sirtaptap.com
I don't know how many times this has to be said. Google for impressions or videos and you can see people playing fighters and platformers with this. The maker of Super Meat Boy liked it enough etc
Impressions after that one seem to generally be much less positive (overall, I don't find many even comparing the touchpad to d pads). Plus Super Meat Boy is left/right jump only isn't it? Not quite the same as when 4 way movement is necessary. Even the 360's d pad is serviceable if you're effectively only using 2 inputs.
 
Feb 8, 2013
150
0
0
Odd...why replace the buttons with a thumbstick? Granted, the left pad being mapped as a virtual d-pad is great, but I thought it would be a virtual stick instead.

Or, perhaps, this brings some better compatibility? The thumbstick can still function mapped as a d-pad, with a virtual stick, or swapped to have an actual stick with virtual d-pad. Whereas before, you only had buttons that could be mapped to keys or d-pad functionality, and so there would only be a virtual stick. So, maybe this design gives a better freedom on choosing the right mapping for the job? Hmm...

I still want to get my hands on it. Volvo gib plz.
 

alexandros

Banned
Jan 30, 2012
7,045
0
0
Not sure why people are so negative about it, I like what I'm seeing here. Most complaints from beta testing were about how imprecise character movement was due to the use of the track pad, the existence of an analog stick alleviates that problem. The controller's main selling point is still there, the dual touch pads, so what's the problem?
 

Denton

Member
Mar 11, 2014
5,802
454
495
So because you don't need it other people don't? And yes, D-pads only exist for fighting games, even though I love them, that's the only reason a D-pad exists in this day and age.
Nailed it.
As if it wasn't obvious, I was speaking for myself. I don't care what other people need or not.
And even if they don't include D-pad (and for some reason fighting games are unplayable on this controller, which I highly doubt), you still have your other controllers, thus the beauty of PC.

And really, D-Pad is not used for anything significant in games I play. Stuff like selecting weapons etc can be easily done by other means on this steam controller.
 

StuBurns

Banned
Jan 9, 2008
69,543
0
0
Dual trackpads are meant to accommodate games with multiple kinds of mouse-type actions. A game with native support could use the left pad to pan the camera (click and drag) while the right pad can independently move the cursor around the screen.
What games do that?
 

Tain

Member
Jun 13, 2004
24,280
3
1,555
horizonvanguard.com
I want this to come out purely for the controller mapping functionality that this will bring to Steam's UI.

I'm really hoping that will let me replace JoyToKey, basically.

The controller itself is just a curiosity for me right now.
 

Sir TapTap

Member
Jun 17, 2014
19,094
0
425
USA
sirtaptap.com
The more they iterate the more I think they should have stuck with the "switchable parts" idea. There's no way to please everyone, especially since most anti-d pad seem to admittedly not actually play games where a d pad would be important. Also solves the "handedness" issue without necessarily needing a symmetrical controller. Sell it stock right handed, then lefties can just pop out a couple of clips, re-arrange and boom.

Would probably be expensive though. I wonder how much this currently would cost with those touchpads.
 

Qassim

Member
Jul 6, 2012
6,854
2
0
United Kingdom
qassim.uk
I know it'd be preferable to have just one controller, but I don't think it'll be an easy task to serve both purposes in one controller.

1. Support for games that don't support controllers
2. Support for games that do support traditional controllers.

Just do two controllers that are good at each of their purposes rather than one that is alright at both.
 

Leafhopper

Banned
May 15, 2014
15,165
1
0
Fuck Evilore
leafhopper.flavors.me
As if it wasn't obvious, I was speaking for myself. I don't care what other people need or not.
And even if they don't include D-pad (and for some reason fighting games are unplayable on this controller, which I highly doubt), you still have your other controllers, thus the beauty of PC.

And really, D-Pad is not used for anything significant in games I play. Stuff like selecting weapons etc can be easily done by other means on this steam controller.
Fair enough but, the way you worded your other post was that they should make it to accommodate you and only you. Sorry for the misunderstanding, just sounded forceful to me.

And as someone who plays fighting games, yes it would be not impossible but, extremely uncomfortable to play fighting games with that controller. Especially 2-D ones with no D-pad.
 

ashecitism

Member
Jun 29, 2013
17,990
22
0
Hungary
They can also me sort of analog sticks. Which makes me wonder, why put an analog stick when that could be a d-pad if the pads are as good as analog sticks anyway?
Lot of testers simply didn't like the pads for movement. In legacy mode it emulates WASD, in native mode it could emulate sticks, but that hasn't been tested much.
 

StuBurns

Banned
Jan 9, 2008
69,543
0
0
Are you serious? Do you even play games on PC? Pretty much every strategy game alone does this (Dota 2, Civilization, Command and Conquer, Age of Empires, list goes on and on). Hell, even games like The Sims work that way.
But you do them on a single mouse. So why would you need two pads to recreate it? I can't see a use case for why you need a second track pad, because it's emulating a single mouse.
 

BadWolf

Member
Apr 15, 2010
26,126
3
0
They should have just went with their unique vision, at least it would have been something different.

At the rate they are going it will be just another controller, people will still go for an XB or PS pad instead.
 
I have a Steam Box and the initial Steam Controller prototype. (Valve gave it to me for Steam Dev days earlier this year)

My thoughts:

I tried playing a few things with it. Mainly I tried Killing Floor and DOTA2.

My takeaways:

1) Dota 2 is super hard to play without a mouse and keyboard, period. The input just needs to be too precise and too fast. I'm hoping they can improve this somehow but I doubt we'll ever get the best experience for an RTS or MOBA on the couch. That said, this is without any native support of the controller at all. There's a chance they could slightly alter the control scheme/game a bit to make it easier

2) Killing Floor: This is where that stick would definitely come in handy. The Steam Controller is a great idea honestly and they do a lot of cool things (like default to the most popular user control scheme on Steamcloud for that game) but the movement just didn't feel right with just the track pad.

I welcome the thumb stick into their design. Honestly I feel like if they add the stick and work on the ergonomics a bit, they have a fine controller on their hands. The controller as is works fine for a lot of PC games you may not be ever able to play with a traditional controller like: Divinity Original Sin, Any 4X game, Civ5 & strategy type games, adventure games.
 

SwiftDeath

Member
May 31, 2013
23,628
0
0
It looks like even less buttons than previous iterations. Probably just going crazy though

Analog stick is a good addition I suppose albeit I don't really like the stick placement but whatever
 

Sir TapTap

Member
Jun 17, 2014
19,094
0
425
USA
sirtaptap.com
I want this to come out purely for the controller mapping functionality that this will bring to Steam's UI.

I'm really hoping that will let me replace JoyToKey, basically.

The controller itself is just a curiosity for me right now.
Have they said if the controller mapping thing will work for other controllers? Steam Machines, Steam OS and even this controller can go burn if I could just have some tweaks to Big Picture and a reliable input wrapper.
 

GuitarAtomik

Member
Jun 13, 2008
18,054
0
0
Replace the joystick with a D-pad and they might be on to something. Actually the more I think about it, I don't think they need the left track pad at all. Put a joystick/dpad combo on that side and leave it at that. It's the mouse emulation that needs innovation, not the WASD part (which controllers are superior at imo so just copy that part).

I know why they got rid of it, but I still feel like it needs something like the original touchscreen. Maybe it didn't need to be a touch screen, but something like extra buttons that could easily be differentiated without looking would help with something like hot keys. Maybe if you added them to the back of the grip or something.
 

ashecitism

Member
Jun 29, 2013
17,990
22
0
Hungary
Replace the joystick with a D-pad and they might be on to something. Actually the more I think about it, I don't think they need the left track pad at all. Put a joystick/dpad combo on that side and leave it at that. It's the mouse emulation that needs innovation, not the WASD part (which controllers are superior at imo so just copy that part).

I know why they got rid of it, but I still feel like it needs something like the original touchscreen. Maybe it didn't need to be a touch screen, but something like extra buttons that could easily be differentiated without looking would help with something like hot keys. Maybe if you added them to the back of the grip or something.
That's why they came up with ghosting. You press down a button and then scroll through the hotkeys with one of the pads.
 

AkuMifune

Banned
Dec 23, 2007
11,687
0
0
Austin
Here's the video showing Portal 2 and Civ 5 with the original design.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eeAjkbNq4xI

I would have paid $100 immediately based on that video alone. The touchpads solve my control problems on the couch with KB/M games.
Yeah, I'm still hopeful. Playing some of the non-controller supported games with Xpadder or Pinnacle can be atrocious. Really looking forward to getting my hands on that touchpad.

Sorry Tuco, looks like some people will be playing Divinity with a controller after all. ;)
 

PerfectConsumer

Neo Member
Jul 9, 2014
54
0
0
I was totally sold on the Steam controller back when it had the badass touch screen. Now it's just got the twin touch pads, and I'm no longer stoked.