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(LATIMES) California named worst state for business in magazine survey

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Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
I'm astounded at all the people encouraging the idea that corporations should be allowed to pollute the air and water, have the ability to reduce worker protections, and be given millions of dollars in corporate welfare if it means gaining some jobs.

There can't be THAT many CEOs on GAF.
 
You guys have just proven a point. With all these great companies that earn so much money, why the hell is California still doing so badly? The answer is because of the legislature and its inability to make sound, fiscal decisions despite getting upwards of $85 billion a year in tax revenue.
The proposition system in California is pretty screwed up.
 

remnant

Banned
If we want to turn this into a bitch fest about taxes, then let's talk about all these Republican states that receive more in federal funding than they pay in taxes. Isn't that called welfare? Maybe things would be a little better here in CA if this system were actually fair. It sure is a lot easier to bribe businesses with tax money when it's tax money collected from a different state.

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2011/11/states-federal-taxes-spending-charts-maps

Has absolutely nothing to do with CA. At all.

Chief Executive magazine... no bias there.

Let me guess. California is the "worst" because there are the fewest tax breaks and incentives (aka public money bribes), workers have a FEW basic protections against employer abuse, and the state actually gives somewhat of a shit about protecting its residents and some of the most beautiful land in the entire world from excessive pollution, chemical dumping, etc.

Fuck Chief Executive magazine. How about that? Everybody wants to live here and do business here but nobody wants to pay for it. It's bullshit. The sound you hear is the world's tiniest violin playing for the poor, unfortunate readers of Chief Executive magazine.

Tell that to the unemployed here. Tell that to the citizens who make over 40k a year paying one of the highest state taxs in the country. Tell that to various city, county and municipal govs in the state that are broke, including Los Angeles(which is bankrupt) Oakland and San Francisco.

Our policies fucking suck. You don't need to be an executive to point that out.

I'm astounded at all the people encouraging the idea that corporations should be allowed to pollute the air and water, have the ability to reduce worker protections, and be given millions of dollars in corporate welfare if it means gaining some jobs.

There can't be THAT many CEOs on GAF.

Just people who don't buy into this B.S. that we must have a shitty, expensive and bankrupt state in order to have a decent state government.
 
V

Vilix

Unconfirmed Member
Yep, Texas is a great place for companies to be and a great place to find work. The cost of living here is also relatively cheap compared to other places in the US.

However if you're unemployed, want a good public education, or want public healthcare services, or fresh air to breath (Texas processes a considerable percentage of all crude oil and nat gas in America), you're just plain ol' fucked.

Happy Earth Day, y'all. :)
 

dinazimmerman

Incurious Bastard
While it's interesting to me that you reflexively equate "better for business" with "better for people," that just isn't true. Better for people is better for people. Lower wages, for example, is better for business. Not for people. I think I just proved it in a single sentence.

More sophistry I'm afraid. I never equated "better for business" with "better for people." For some odd reason, you also claim I'm in favor in reducing people's wages. According to the OP, the policies in California that businesses don't like are high taxes and excessive regulation, which aren't connected directly to wages. Would strategically lowering taxes and loosening regulation to attract businesses make California's quality of life drop? If conditions weren't worsening on their own (see unemployment statistics), would such a change in policy make California rank lower in a future Gallup poll of the type you cited? That's what I was asking, non-rhetorically. Given that you don't know how to respond to such a question, you resort to ad hominem and straw men.
 

Rentahamster

Rodent Whores
I'm astounded at all the people encouraging the idea that corporations should be allowed to pollute the air and water, have the ability to reduce worker protections, and be given millions of dollars in corporate welfare if it means gaining some jobs.

Bit of a false dichotomy there.
 

remnant

Banned
I made a pretty long post about CA's financial woes in one of the previous California is broke again lolz threads. It still applies.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=34728800#post34728800

It's astounding to me how much corruption is rampant in claifornia, and how many californians are totally okay with it. To the CRA's running amok, rent control practically forcing poorer people out of the northern part of the state to the High Speed Rail project that is borderline criminal, there are so many things wrong here.

And in a weird way this thread is a perfect example why. No matter how many problems you point out and budget realities brought to light, someone will always turn around and blame something else. People in California live in this weird denial where bad policies are okay becuase they might piss off CEO's, at the exact same time touting the corporations that are here such as Apple, Google or hollywood
and all of which are expanding out of the state. Apple moving to NC, FB moving to texas, Pixar expanding in Vancouver. Almost all of Hollywood shooting movies out of CA
 
This magazine just wants people to follow the incredibly successful policies that governors like Walker in Wisoncon have laid out. Commie Illinois followed a different path and raised the income tax by 50% and ruined the state economy....oh wait, Wisconsin has actually has the lowest job creation numbers since he was elected and has actually lost jobs while Illinois has been adding?
 

remnant

Banned
This magazine just wants people to follow the incredibly successful policies that governors like Walker in Wisoncon have laid out. Commie Illinois followed a different path and raised the income tax by 50% and ruined the state economy....oh wait, Wisconsin has actually has the lowest job creation numbers since he was elected and has actually lost jobs while Illinois has been adding?

Wouldn't they want CA to act like a top ranked state?

And really Illinois is your example? The state with the 9% unemployment rate as compared to California's 10%. Oh real leaders there
 

FStop7

Banned
Where does all of the tax money in California go? I read that anyone making over $47,000 a year has to pay 9.3% in state income taxes. That seems completely ridiculous to me.

It's a big state with a lot of infrastructure. State spending needs to be very tightly scrutinized. Salary spiking should be severely criminalized. And the state needs to push the federal government hard about receiving funds more in line with the amount of money that we pay in. Maybe then we can consider modest tax incentives for businesses. But they would need to come with contracts. No fifty jobs for $46 million.

Wow, the circle jerk that is the anonymous "CEO" commentary is quite humourous.

Not every state is gonna bow to corporations every single time. dealwithit.gif

Here's California: http://chiefexecutive.net/10-worst-states-for-business-2012-slideshow/10



Wah fuckin' wah.

I realize the state might not be what it used to in many regards, especially economically speaking. I don't think I would ever live there. There is no doubt room for improvement. But, I do admire their willingness to at least stand up for sensible regulations and protections during a time when anti-regulation politicians and business alike are ruining this country. For example, Texas might be the best state for business, but outside of Austin I don't think I would want to spend more than a day in that... place (sorry Texan gaffers). I'd still opt to stay here in PA.

Yet all these whiny 'CEO' fucks own (or want to own) homes in Malibu, Bel Air, Palos Verdes, La Jolla, Palo Alto, San Francisco, Napa Valley, etc. They all want to come here and enjoy the natural beauty and the way of life but none of them want to pay for it. Fuck them. And it's not just the CEO types. I am aware of a couple of famous actors who moved to Austin for a year so they could become Texas residents and stop paying any state income tax. The joke of it is that they still have their homes in CA and they probably spend more time here than in TX. That kind of thing needs to be stopped.
 

J-Rod

Member
I've heard reports that businesses are going to leave California for as long as I have been on Gaf, but so far it hasn't meant much.
 

remnant

Banned
I've heard reports that businesses are going to leave California for as long as I have been on Gaf, but so far it hasn't meant much.

CA has the 2nd worst employment rate and some of the highest out migration in the country. Were you expecting a mad max scenario?
 

The Lamp

Member
The people of California are already carrying the tax burden. We have the highest sales tax and state income tax in the nation. But hey, we need more taxes.

Funny you mention that. Texas has no income tax and we certainly don't have the highest sales tax and I wonder how we are doing....:)
 

FStop7

Banned
Funny you mention that. Texas has no income tax and we certainly don't have the highest sales tax and I wonder how we are doing....:)

And between BP and Enron Texas also has two of the finest examples of unchecked corporate malfeasance.
 
According to the OP, the policies in California that businesses don't like are high taxes and excessive regulation, which aren't connected directly to wages. Would strategically lowering taxes and loosening regulation to attract businesses make California's quality of life drop?

Yes, certainly. Do you think the quality of life rises when the government is less interventionist? See, e.g., all of American history. The only thing "loosening regulation" gets California citizens is directly worse lives (e.g., polluted waters and air, lower wages, more work hazards, more gouging, etc.). I mean, that question could literally be rephrased: Would strategically lowering taxes and making life worse for average Californians to attract businesses make California's quality of life drop?

As for taxes, because California is a state and, unlike the federal government, is revenue constrained, it has to collect money in order to spend money. So collecting less taxes means spending less money on education, health care, parks, and other infrastructure very important to the everyday lives of average Californians. The quality of life in California would be worse for the average Californian if California spent less money.

I would, however, be fine with turning California (and all other states) into administrative districts of the federal government. That way California wouldn't have to play this stupid game of collecting taxes at all. It'd also stop this stupid stunt of states having to "compete" for business. Such idiocy.

If conditions weren't worsening on their own (see unemployment statistics), would such a change in policy make California rank lower in a future Gallup poll of the type you cited?

Yes, it seems obvious to me that California changing its policies to be more like states that rank low in quality of life would cause California to rank lower in the future.
 

Sarcasm

Member
The parts of CA that are really beautiful..is not in the cities.

This is America not China. Companies won't start dumpign in rivers and stuff....this is not the 1500's anymore.
 

Pastry

Banned
Texas is the seventh circle of Hell. I've been pretty much everywhere but Austin, though.

A "better environment for business" isn't entirely synonymous with a better environment for Americans.

I live five minutes from the beach in Galveston, TX and the selling price for the house we rent is a little less than 100,000. Yeah... I like Texas.
 

FLEABttn

Banned
Funny you mention that. Texas has no income tax and we certainly don't have the highest sales tax and I wonder how we are doing....:)

Fine-ish until Florida offers to give all companies who operate out of Florida negative tax burdens.

Texas's strategy works well, on some level, until some other state gets the idea to not only play the same game, but kick it up a notch. Or when enough people move to Texas.
 

remnant

Banned
Yes, certainly. Do you think the quality of life rises when the government is less interventionist? See, e.g., all of American history. The only thing "loosening regulation" gets California citizens is directly worse lives (e.g., polluted waters and air, lower wages, more work hazards, more gouging, etc.). I mean, that question could literally be rephrased: Would strategically lowering taxes and making life worse for average Californians to attract businesses make California's quality of life drop?

As for taxes, because California is a state and, unlike the federal government, is revenue constrained, it has to collect money in order to spend money. So collecting less taxes means spending less money on education, health care, parks, and other infrastructure very important to the everyday lives of average Californians. The quality of life in California would be worse for the average Californian if California spent less money.

I would, however, be fine with turning California (and all other states) into administrative districts of the federal government. That way California wouldn't have to play this stupid game of collecting taxes at all. It'd also stop this stupid stunt of states having to "compete" for business. Such idiocy.

No state rights or sovereignty. The federal government enacting bad to just impossible demands. All in the name of protecting us from corporations because anything but hyper regulation leads to living in the equivalent of a captain planet episode. Your fantasy world is scary.
 
Oil and shale boom I believe.


Its everything because with employment you can have these nice things, without it, you don't.

Indeed with companies polluting your environment, you too can enjoy the nice life.

Business friendly policies mean creating policies that allow for more unfiltered dumping, a general disregard for the effects of pollution, and a ravaged environment.

I'm sure businesses would love it if we were just like Nigeria. I'm sure you would too!

k0Lzo.jpg


Now that's a quality life.
 
The parts of CA that are really beautiful..is not in the cities.

This is America not China. Companies won't start dumpign in rivers and stuff....this is not the 1500's anymore.

Yeah... the same companies who are behind funding most of the anti-global warming research out there.

Give me a break.
 
Tell that to the unemployed here. Tell that to the citizens who make over 40k a year paying one of the highest state taxs in the country. Tell that to various city, county and municipal govs in the state that are broke, including Los Angeles(which is bankrupt) Oakland and San Francisco.

Our policies fucking suck. You don't need to be an executive to point that out.

Indeed, California should be more like Ireland. It should impose fiscal austerity.

Oh wait, it's 14.3% over there.

OOOPS!
 

daycru

Member
Indeed with companies polluting your environment, you too can enjoy the nice life.

Business friendly policies mean creating policies that allow for more unfiltered dumping, a general disregard for the effects of pollution, and a ravaged environment.

I'm sure businesses would love it if we were just like Nigeria. I'm sure you would too!

k0Lzo.jpg


Now that's a quality life.
Yup. The only reason that doesn't happen in the US is because of those job killing regulations.
 

FStop7

Banned
Tell that to the unemployed here. Tell that to the citizens who make over 40k a year paying one of the highest state taxs in the country. Tell that to various city, county and municipal govs in the state that are broke, including Los Angeles(which is bankrupt) Oakland and San Francisco.

Last year I paid well over $10,000 in state income tax.

Suck it up and pay your fair share.

As for the unemployed, I've already pointed out how lowering taxes and offering tax incentives doesn't guarantee anything. The issue is a lot more complicated than that. If anything we need to make it easier for small businesses to get started than continue to throw tens of millions to chase large corporations that don't give a shit.
 
Yup. The only reason that doesn't happen in the US is because of those job killing regulations.

Yeah I know my post seems like hyperbole. Unfortunately, though, it is the truth.

The paper, packaging, oil, chemical, & plastics corporations would certainly love to transform our environment into Nigeria if they could. They would love to be able to pay employees $8/hr in wages.

The words they often use, "If only there were less environmental and labor regulation in this country, everything would be great here. I really hate the EPA. They are a very corrupt organization."
 

Zhengi

Member

Do you want to know why so much money goes to prisons? Unions. The prison guards union is one of the strongest in the state. They just recently got a new deal with governor Jerry Brown which gave them quite a few perks including unlimited vacation time that can be cashed in upon retirement, which can cost the state up to $600 million, and giving prison guards approximately $130 just to take an annual physical with a doctor (considering there are 30,000 prison guards, that is almost $4 million in additional money). This is without the cost of their new salary increases.

A link to what... that California is still growing and is expected to continue to do so?

http://articles.latimes.com/2012/apr/25/local/la-me-california-growth-20120425

Thanks for the link, but your link doesn't disprove anything I said. Most of the growth in California will be from people being born here. From the same article you posted:

The researchers said the slowdown will mainly stem from a sharp drop in immigration to California, part of a nationwide trend detailed in other recent studies.

That article doesn't say anything about the migration out of the state, but it does show that less people are willing to come to California.
 

Xcellere

Member
Maybe it would be good for the wider population if it was done on a national level, but, according to the OP, California has massive unemployment, a huge number of people on welfare, and a huge number of people fleeing the state. Sounds like California's policies aren't good for just about anyone.




You're right, I haven't been all over LA, and was only there for a couple of days. So I'm probably judging it too harshly.

If you haven't been to Santa Monica, Larchmont, Beverly Hills, Brentwood, Westwood, Malibu, and parts of West Hollywood, then yeah, LA is a wasteland. Obviously those places I mentioned are obscenely expensive to live in, but they're nice to hang around in.
 

Future

Member
With all the wealthy people in Hollywood, Beverly hills, etc coupled with the highest sales tax and income tax in the nation, you'd think California would be in good shape finance wise.

You'd think
 

Thaedolus

Gold Member
California people and California businesses have been coming out to Utah in droves over the past 15 years or so. Pretty much everybody here has friends that grew up in California. Heck, my wife is from Santa Barbara. It's just too expensive to live there once you move out and it's hard to raise a family there when the jobs are migrating out of the state as well.

I'm a bay area transplant looking to buy a house in the SLC area now. I came to Utah for school initially, planning to return home when I graduated...but I happened to graduate in 2009. My options were to either stay in Utah where cost of living is relatively affordable, or move back in with my parents and cross my fingers for a job. I stayed in Utah. Now I'm employed at a thriving business, doubled my income there in two years, got a serious girlfriend, I happen to love the area and have no plans to go home except to visit my parents and maybe catch an A's game once a year or so.
 

remnant

Banned
Last year I paid well over $10,000 in state income tax.

Suck it up and pay your fair share.

As for the unemployed, I've already pointed out how lowering taxes and offering tax incentives doesn't guarantee anything. The issue is a lot more complicated than that. If anything we need to make it easier for small businesses to get started than continue to throw tens of millions to chase large corporations that don't give a shit.

And we make it easier for small businesses by...raising their taxes and putting regulations on them.

I love how people think they can treat small and large buisnesses so differently, as if they exist on different planets.

If your state credit rating drops(like CA did) small businesses will feel the effect. If the local government or state nears bankruptcy( like CA is) small businesses will be feel the burn.

If you pass regulations(like prop 23, the global warming bill) small businesses will be affected.

You want to help small buisnesses, stop with the stupid policies.

Indeed with companies polluting your environment, you too can enjoy the nice life.

Business friendly policies mean creating policies that allow for more unfiltered dumping, a general disregard for the effects of pollution, and a ravaged environment.

I'm sure businesses would love it if we were just like Nigeria. I'm sure you would too!

k0Lzo.jpg


Now that's a quality life.

What did i say. The basis of support for stupid regulation in CA is comparing the alternative to Captain planet.
 
V

Vilix

Unconfirmed Member
Why not? By saying this you are effectively saying that private entities should have the right to condemn whoever they want to homelessness.

No, I'm not. Knee jerk reaction much?
 

remnant

Banned
With all the wealthy people in Hollywood, Beverly hills, etc coupled with the highest sales tax and income tax in the nation, you'd think California would be in good shape finance wise.

You'd think

Most of them don't pay taxes in California. They film movies and the like out of CA, and as a result only have to pay a fraction of what they earn in CA taxes. It's actually quite hilarious. Hollywood and most celebrities are considered one of, if not the largest block of donors for various democrat groups and candidates, yet they avoid taxes moreso than any rich millionaire not connected to the entertainment industry.
 
What did i say. The basis of support for stupid regulation in CA is comparing the alternative to Captain planet.

Yes, because what happens in foreign countries can never happen in the U.S. It's not as if U.S. companies are responsible for the pollution issues in Nigeria. Clearly, they are too moral for that...
 
Do you want to know why so much money goes to prisons? Unions. The prison guards union is one of the strongest in the state. They just recently got a new deal with governor Jerry Brown which gave them quite a few perks including unlimited vacation time that can be cashed in upon retirement, which can cost the state up to $600 million, and giving prison guards approximately $130 just to take an annual physical with a doctor (considering there are 30,000 prison guards, that is almost $4 million in additional money). This is without the cost of their new salary increases.

Assuming all of this is true, why is any of it bad? Don't you think people who work in California should be paid well and have good benefits? Why do you think it is a good thing that people give up unused vacation time? After all, they worked instead of taking vacation. And you really think an annual physical is some massive, unwarranted perk that American workers don't deserve?

Don't you think we can reduce prison costs by reducing crime while still paying workers good wages? And I think we all know that the increase in prison costs is not really due to paying American workers decent wages but to the massive increase in incarceration that occurred over the time period reflected in the graph. And when it comes to the costs of prisons, keep in mind that you have the added recent phenomenon of private, for-profit prisons, i.e., corruption.
 
Ohio is definitely improving (our unemployment rate is below the national average), but I don't think is has a whole lot to do with John Kasich, who is pretty much despised after the Senate Bill 5 debacle. It's probably more to do with the natural business cycle than anything government-related. Plus, Ohio is a really great location, so it will always have some level of interest for logistical reasons.

We just need a decent governor, which we haven't had in 14 years.
 
Unemployment was so bad in LA that I had to move east.

The stuff I saw there was horrible. You basically have an ultra-rich elite living extremely well and then extremely poor immigrants struggling to get by. The middle class is the largest group to leave California. It sucks because my family has 100 years of history there, but ultimately people migrate to where their chances of prosperity are best. That's not California anymore.
 

Zhengi

Member
It's a big state with a lot of infrastructure. State spending needs to be very tightly scrutinized. Salary spiking should be severely criminalized. And the state needs to push the federal government hard about receiving funds more in line with the amount of money that we pay in. Maybe then we can consider modest tax incentives for businesses. But they would need to come with contracts. No fifty jobs for $46 million.

I think this is part of what gets me upset. People usually complain about CEO salaries that are too high and I agree with them regarding that. On the other hand, there are a lot of public administrators that are getting paid high salaries as well. It isn't just one administrator, there are usually dozens and dozens of these administrators in each public organization earning $100k+ a year and all that adds up.

Why do you think public education is getting more expensive? Too many of those administrators get paid top dollars to do very little and I have seen it here where I work at. It really has not improved education much and students are still in much need of help.

In fact, much of the problems with higher education can be traced back to K-12 education. Students are not getting adequate enough education despite all the money we spend there. Students are graduating high school and going to college taking remedial courses. At my community college, the biggest problem is math, and I am not talking about hard math courses like calculus, but remedial courses below math courses below Algebra. We require students to pass intermediate algebra to earn an AA degree, and many of them struggle to do that.

With such educational problems in our state, how can we just say throw more money towards it and everything will be solved? I really believe that there needs to be a fundamental change as to how things are run before I'd be more willing to pay more taxes. Why should I throw good money after bad ventures like education that gives us such results? Improve the system and show me that there can be good use of my money to actually make a better California.
 
Ohio is definitely improving (our unemployment rate is below the national average), but I don't think is has a whole lot to do with John Kasich, who is pretty much despised after the Senate Bill 5 debacle. It's probably more to do with the natural business cycle than anything government-related. Plus, Ohio is a really great location, so it will always have some level of interest for logistical reasons.

We just need a decent governor, which we haven't had in 12 years.
It's never all about the governor, nor is it all about the president.
 
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