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[Chrono]

I was just taking a look at this cnet review and found this interesting:

THE GOOD: Deeper black levels than any HDTV available aside from Pioneer Kuro

OK, that pretty much means that LCD has better black levels than all plasmas, including well-reviewed ones, except Kuros. I guess that also includes non-Kuro Pioneers which were also highly praised.

Another thing I've noticed at cnet reviews is that plasmas don't seem to have an edge over LCDs, I'm seeing plenty of LCDs with similar scores to plasmas, many higher. Was this always the case? Considering that LCDs still haven't matched plasmas in motion, it's possible that cnet just sucks.

 

[Drastic]

cnet just sucks.

This.

Though I haven't followed the plasma/lcd debate lately, that statement holds true.

 

[worldrunover]

Interesting... I am in the market for an HDTV, and I have been convinced by this board to go plasma, but to be honest LCD seems like much less of a hassle, if I can get a comprable picture.

Also, how does LED stack up to plasma? I saw them in the store and they look friggin beautiful, although slightly more expensive.

 

[Stinkles]

It's irrelevant. Annoying AV fans don't like it when technology becomes available to the masses. So if LCDs shoot past Plasmas, they'll find some obscure subjective reason why some shitty old tech is better at this one vital thing, and cling to it so they can cling to their smug sense of superiority.

See also: CRT.

 

[140.85]

It's because that LCD is using local-dimming LEDs.

But you can still get as good or slightly better black levels with a Plasma at about a quarter of the price of that.

 

[Sapiens]

Is anyone else's LCD degrading.

I bought a Samsung earlier this year and the clouding effect is starting to spread. Is this normal?

 

[Sanjuro]

I never was aware it was behind Plasmas. I've always preferred LCD over Plasma hands down.

 

[NYR]

Heh, I knew which TV this thread was going to be about before I clicked it...I've been researching this TV for some time. It is very hard to come by, a lot of places sell out quick, and Samsung has had production issues with it as well.

That LCD has had a lot of problems with it lately as well. They are called Crop Circles, where the LEDS show off circles when the screen is white or off white. It's been fixed in a new firmware that is to be released, but I'm waiting before I bite. Here's a pic:

Anyways, back to the topic, believe the hype on this TV, the black levels and contrasts are plasma-like levels. Comes at a price, but getting most of the benefits of LCD and Plasmas has me itching to drop some cash...

 

[jett]

Do LCDs still have that horrible motion blurring? Yes? Then no. Not ever.

 

[big_z]

cnets scoring system is all fucked up. you can find lcds this year that they claim to be the best they've ever reviewed but they score less than tvs from previous years.

plasma(panasonic/pioneer) > LCD offerings.

Is anyone else's LCD degrading.

I bought a Samsung earlier this year and the clouding effect is starting to spread. Is this normal?

yes. back when i was trying to find a new tv i had a sony xbr 6? that had no clouds. by the end of the week a black screen was uneven as fuck. took that shit back and tried some other lcds. after about 7 lcds of various brands i called it quits and got a high end pansonic plasma. been happy since.

Do LCDs still have that horrible motion blurring? Yes? Then no. Not ever.

lcd motion blurring is by far the biggest downside to the technology. once things move shit gets ugly fast. i cant see how some people dont notice it but then again some tards have said there hasnt been blur since 20ms lcds.

 

[SimleuqiR]

Is anyone else's LCD degrading.

I bought a Samsung earlier this year and the clouding effect is starting to spread. Is this normal?

Not sure within a year is normal. But my 4 year old LCD is definitely showing wear and tear.

 

[Stinkles]

Do LCDs still have that horrible motion blurring? Yes? Then no. Not ever.

No. But I'm sure you'll see it anyway.

 

[jett]

No.

Sure.

 

[Evlar]

Same as a poster above- I've always preferred the look of LCD, and the preference is subjective. Plasmas have a warmer "neon" quality and LCDs have a cooler "moving stained glass window" quality to me. I like the cooler LCD look.

 

[Chrono]

It's because that LCD is using local-dimming LEDs.

But you can still get as good or slightly better black levels with a Plasma at about a quarter of the price of that.

Yeah I'm looking at a plasma right now and for the same price I can get some V-series Bravia with a fraction of the contrast ratio and blur. =\

The Bravia's 1080p though and the plasma isn't even 720p (1024x768), but it's pretty tempting. I especially hate motion on LCDs, which still isn't comparable to plasmas.

Still, LCDs with local-dimming will get cheaper (though an article on cnet says the industry will focus on edge-lit LEDs because people go nuts for the slim design) eventually though who knows about motion. I remember a poster here said he saw an LCD with motion as good as a CRT or plasma, it was using a new technique lighting up pixels line by line or something. Now it's all 120Hz or higher though so I guess they abandoned that technology or it will come later.

 

[kaskade]

I still like the picture on plasmas better. To me the picture quality seems more natural I guess you could say. Maybe the picture is slightly softer.

 

[Ganhyun]

So for those of us who aren't videophiles, but normal people, which type would be best as a general use tv in a living room/den area?

Would be used for tv, movies, and games

 

[SlaughterX]

I'm sure there are quite a few LCDs that can match many plasmas in PQ... they probably jsut cost 2-3x more...

 

[bill0527]

Uhhh... that's a $4000 TV you just linked to. It better be the best for that kind of scratch.

I'll take my 'inferior' $1k 50" plasma that I just bought 5 days ago.

 

[kaskade]

So for those of us who aren't videophiles, but normal people, which type would be best as a general use tv in a living room/den area?

Would be used for tv, movies, and games

For size size definitely go for plasma. If you are looking for anything under 42 inches it may be difficult to find a plasma of that size.

 

[Chrono]

For the people saying they prefer the look of LCDs, have you only seen plasmas in stores? They really look terrible in that environment.

 

[Ganhyun]

For size size definitely go for plasma. If you are looking for anything under 42 inches it may be difficult to find a plasma of that size.

Thanks.

 

[Dead Man]

>40" = Plasma

<40" = LCD

No contest, and mainly on the price equation. LCD's over 40" start to get very expensive. and there are very few Plasmas under 40".

 

[Javaman]

I've had my eyes on the Vizio VF551 55" Local dimming LCD/LED for a couple of weeks. It's going for around $1800 but with a new model coming out next year (VF552, same model but with lame internet widgets), I'm waiting for the invertible price drop. It seems to be pretty popular on the AVSForum. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1106863 My only concern is the input lag. I still hadn't heard anything about how much there is.

On a more ontopic note, I can't freaking believe how much flatscreens have come down in price over the last couple of years. I remember walking through Circuit City and Best buy a long time ago and seeing 40 something inch plasmas going for over eight grand. Crazy!

 

[Stinkles]

>40" = Plasma

<40" = LCD

No contest, and mainly on the price equation. LCD's over 40" start to get very expensive. and there are very few Plasmas under 40".

This.

Power consumption is all over the board too.

 

[Always-honest]

I never was aware it was behind Plasmas. I've always preferred LCD over Plasma hands down.

and your reasons for that?... cause that's just wrong.

 

[BattleMonkey]

Do LCDs still have that horrible motion blurring? Yes? Then no. Not ever.

If it's a cheap piece of shit sure. Good quality LCD and you won't notice.

 

[captive]

No. But I'm sure you'll see it anyway.

For someone who claims "av nerds cling to some superiority" you certainly come of as someone with a superiority complex.

If LCD's dont motion blur why do they keep upping the hertz? 120 and now 240 hertz?

 

[BattleMonkey]

If LCD's dont motion blur why do they keep upping the hertz? 120 and now 240 hertz?

That has nothing to do with motion blur :lol

 

[BotoxAgent]

>40" = Plasma

<40" = LCD

No contest, and mainly on the price equation. LCD's over 40" start to get very expensive. and there are very few Plasmas under 40".

yeah, it's insane how some of these LCDs go for when they are still not quite there yet in terms of performance

 

[Ultimo hombre]

It's irrelevant. Annoying AV fans don't like it when technology becomes available to the masses. So if LCDs shoot past Plasmas, they'll find some obscure subjective reason why some shitty old tech is better at this one vital thing, and cling to it so they can cling to their smug sense of superiority.

See also: CRT.

Pretend AV tag alongs. Real AV fans enjoy the lastest and greatest while not being blind to areas of improvements.

On topic:

The 8500 is a great set and certainly brought LCD's up a notch. It's biggest flaw, as with many LCD's remains off axis viewing. Owners are also report crop circles and such but this is likely more of a QA issue, something Samsung is often not very good at. If I didn't have my Kuro and was in the market, I'd be strongly considering a 8500. The lesser LCD models have a way to go still. The new top of the line LG is REALLY good also and a lot cheaper.

 

[Chrono]

That has nothing to do with motion blur :lol

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001T9N0EO/?tag=neogaf0e-20

Just picked some random Bravia, and in the product description MotionFlow is advertised as something that reduces image blur. Just scroll down to the soccer game picture.

Where are those LCDs with no motion blur?

I did some quick search on 120Hz and some people say it looks good and some say it's unnatural, with plasma you don't have to worry it.

I'm seeing 480Hz and 600Hz on plasmas though, not sure what that's about.

 

[MWS Natural]

Plasma's somewhat. 9G Kuro's? never.

 

[Jill Sandwich]

LCDs have a cooler "moving stained glass window" quality to me. I like the cooler LCD look.

This is certainly true watching Sleeping Beauty on Blu Ray.

 

[SlaughterX]

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001T9N0EO/?tag=neogaf0e-20

Just picked some random Bravia, and in the product description MotionFlow is advertised as something that reduces image blur. Just scroll down to the soccer game picture.

Where are those LCDs with no motion blur?

I did some quick search on 120Hz and some people say it looks good and some say it's unnatural, with plasma you don't have to worry it.

I'm seeing 480Hz and 600Hz on plasmas though, not sure what that's about.

For the record, you can turn off 120hrz refresh rate on most, if not all LCDs... but I do agree that is sucks, it removed judder from film, but HDTVs that support 24p are displaying the film the way it was intended to be displayed.

 

[shinjijai]

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001T9N0EO/?tag=neogaf0e-20

Just picked some random Bravia, and in the product description MotionFlow is advertised as something that reduces image blur. Just scroll down to the soccer game picture.

Where are those LCDs with no motion blur?

I did some quick search on 120Hz and some people say it looks good and some say it's unnatural, with plasma you don't have to worry it.

I'm seeing 480Hz and 600Hz on plasmas though, not sure what that's about.

AFAIK, plasma refresh rates = how many shades it can produce... so higher the number the more colour it can reproduce.

 

[whitehawk]

Is anyone else's LCD degrading.

I bought a Samsung earlier this year and the clouding effect is starting to spread. Is this normal?

My TV is about a year old now, and I haven't seen any problems.

 

[Stinkles]

For someone who claims "av nerds cling to some superiority" you certainly come of as someone with a superiority complex.

If LCD's dont motion blur why do they keep upping the hertz? 120 and now 240 hertz?

I prefaced it with "annoying" so if you want to group yourself with them, go ahead. I defined it rigidly to exclude right-minded, helpful AV fans. Frequency and response time and refresh rate aren't the same thing. They're related - but the 120Hz/240Hz thing can actually increase perceived blur for some people on certain types of source material.

 

[worldrunover]

Are the Samsung LED TVs worth buying? Better or worse than plasma?

 

[XiaNaphryz]

Do LCDs still have that horrible motion blurring? Yes? Then no. Not ever.

I haven't ever seen that on any decent LCD set.

 

[DaCocoBrova]

Phospher lag and image retention are the two things about Plasma that I still take issue with. That said, it's nowhere near as bad as it used to be years ago, but unless you go high-end, it's still something to consider.

In the end, plasma has a much more natural image, compared to the 'processed' PQ that LCDs have. LCDs are bright as fuck though. I like that.

 

[mrbagdt]

this seems like a place to ask this quick question- what is the drawback to rear projection TVs compared to plasma and LCDs? the fact that you can buy this 60'' for $1200 compared to the relative costs of larger plasmas and LCDs.... i just dont get it... is there that much of an advantage that the TV is a little bit thinner and you can hang it on a wall?

 

[Evlar]

this seems like a place to ask this quick question- what is the drawback to rear projection TVs compared to plasma and LCDs? the fact that you can buy this 60'' for $1200 compared to the relative costs of larger plasmas and LCDs.... i just dont get it... is there that much of an advantage that the TV is a little bit thinner and you can hang it on a wall?

They are dimmer than the other options and they will require more frequent maintenance (replacing that damn bulb). They are LCDs, by the way, so they share some of the advantages and disadvantages of that tech.

 

[Pimpwerx]

I bought a 52" Samsung A650 for $1800 1 year ago. The A950 looked amazing, but was a good $600 more for like 6" less. Now, I don't think I'll buy another tv for more than $1000. LED is the future, I guess, and those are getting cheap fast. Maybe a projector even. PEACE.

 

[Chrono]

I haven't ever seen that on any decent LCD set.

I'm really interested in what GAF videophiles think about this statement, maybe I should PM dark10x and JB1981. :lol

Edit: I did and dark10x replied and showed up here, hah.

Phospher lag and image retention are the two things about Plasma that I still take issue with. That said, it's nowhere near as bad as it used to be years ago, but unless you go high-end, it's still something to consider.

In the end, plasma has a much more natural image, compared to the 'processed' PQ that LCDs have. LCDs are bright as fuck though. I like that.

People are saying image retention is no longer a problem, but I don't know about phosphor lag, I hope it's been improved at least.

 

[DaCocoBrova]

IR is still there, but the duration of time in which it's visible is negligible compared to how it was years ago. I just don't like having to think about it all the time. I like to not have to worry about things that I use.

 

[YuriLowell]

Does anything come close to my 9G Kuro?
No.

So no LCDs have not caught up.

 

[Chrono]

IR is still there, but the duration of time in which it's visible is negligible compared to how it was years ago. I just don't like having to think about it all the time. I like to not have to worry about things that I use.

You only have to worry for the first 100 hours or so.

 

[dLMN8R]

I recently purchased a 46" Panasonic G10 plasma after deliberating what to get for the month beforehand.

After so much research, so many discussions, it came down to the fact that expensive LCDs are still only trying to replicated what Plasmas already do.


The G10 is cheaper, looks better, has a better viewing angle, and refreshes faster than any Samsung LED-backlit LCD will do. That's why I went with it. The extra power usage isn't significant enough to make up for the price difference IMO.

 

[dr3upmushroom]

You guys who feel adverse to plasma, why? I guess at times it can seem that people like plasma so they can feel cool for liking a more obscure technology, but whenever a thread like this pops up there's always a few people who say they're really happy about either switching to plasma from LCD or going against their own better judgement and getting a plasma based on recommendation, but very rarely do people praise LCD as being better than plasma unless it's the only thing they've owned.

So why do people say things like "Plasma seems like more of a hassle?" What does that even mean? It's especially weird because while this isn't the case any more, a few years ago most manufacturers made both LCD and plasma, so it's not like it's a marketing thing.