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Lead and Gold - Gangs of the Wild West PC Beta Discussion

i'm so tempted to buy this, but it's scary to hear about the server/browser/connection situations etc in a multiplayer based game

would also suck to see if it turns into a map pack selling community splitting platform for what would prolly be a smaller community anyhow :/

looks like fistful of frags wrapped in a whole bunch of awesome, though :(
 
I've gotten into enough no laggy matches for me to say it's certainly got potential. The Beta community isn't really large enough for me to really say how it all comes together as a whole. The non-laggy matches I've gotten into are typically lopsided affairs.

A few things:

Needs auto-balance
Needs team shuffling after rounds complete (while having a buddy system I suppose)
Coach gun is pretty nasty, Blaster is stepping all over the Gunslingers toes balance wise
Random crits are a bad idea
Should be able to reselect class multiple times while waiting to respawn
A little more feedback on receiving damage
Lighting guys up on the HUD when they're carrying gold or TNT is just brutal. Minimap spotting, okay, but seeing people through walls is bad.

Chat messages about spotting trappers etc should be tied to some audio cues. No one is gonna notice those messages way up in the corner. Maybe a speech bubble coming out of the character who said it?

I'd be nice if people could at least make a match where they're spectating. Sorta let me give back to the community a bit by running a match while I'm not at the computer. I wouldn't have to worry about being AFK fucking up the teams, and the other players wouldn't have to worry about some godlike host running around.
 
A poster on the official Lead and Gold forums compiles a list of what the developers had to say about various suggestions that the community has made:

Whist said:
Dedicated servers: Within one day went from "it's a lot of work, but if the community wants it..." to "Dedicated servers are our top priority". Hopefully dedicated servers will be released by the end of beta.

Graphics options: Already being worked on

Crouching: Though no official statements have been said stating whether or not it may be added by the end of beta, it is universally experessed by the Devs that it would be a nice feature. Hopefully it will be added at some point, make your friends buy the game, the more support the game has the higher chance crouching will make it in.

VOIP: VOIP is not planned for PC version and devs say users will have to rely on the steam voip system. Console versions will have voice chat. This is bad news gentlemen, this was one of the issues that caused problems on Enemy Territory: Quake wars and caused it to lose sales. I demand you demand voice chat. Much more important than crouching.

Ingame chat: expect this to be implanted tomorrow (march 22nd)

Mod support: sadly, this is something that will probably never be added "a €/$15 title, actually adding support for modding isn't really something we can afford at the moment. "

Switching Camera sides: Switching camera sides is implanted within the game, however was accidently not bound to a key. Expect a fix shortly.

Server pings: devs have talked about it, but I haven't seen a definite answer on whether or not it is being worked on yet, currently though, the servers with the lowest ping will be at the top of the list.

Switch team button: Supported idea by devs, and will no doubt be added by the end of beta (I'm assuming here, afterall, it's a pretty big feature to have in a team game)

Overal persistant ranking: Stated that Fatshark would love to do this and is a possibility provided the sales of the game and future DLCs warrent it. Persistant rank would most likely only give you cosmetic items like different hats and a snazzy rank symbol by your name to show off, not actual upgraded weapons.

Additional Classes: There is currently already ideas being thrown around within their studio and just like anything else they are open to suggestions. "We are actually talking about an additional profession with dual guns, Wouldn't want to make them overlap too much."

Larger team sizes: currently 5v5 is the largest. Any larger causes games to be much to chaotic. The current maps are not very large and are built around smaller team sizes. Fat shark is not opposed to having larger teams, but it will require more maps to be made to support these team sizes.

Teammate Outline: could possibally be added as a toggle for servers. All that was meantioned though was "I dont like it either. I'll have a talk with the designers. " by Daniel. So if you're one of the few people really bothered by this, now is the best time to speak up.

http://forums.leadandgold.com/showthread.php?tid=246
 
Lack of VOIP doesn't bother me much, but it's strange that there's no ping or crouching. And I like the idea of persistent rank giving you cosmetic items instead of weapon upgrades.
 
Game needs dedicated servers, viewable ping, VOIP.

Everything else such as an AA option and crouching are secondary as far as I'm concerned. I didn't even know you couldn't crouch as I don't see any use for it in this game.

The game supports a full 120Hz so I'm happy with it from a graphical standpoint even though there are jaggies.
 
Fuck it. I know there's problems, but it looks too cool not to buy, plus the developers seem to be on top of things. So assuming it doesn't crash, I'm up to play some GAF games.
 
The lack of any communication besides hitting "q" for an offensive message and "z" for a defensive message is odd.

Even with all the glitches in the game I keep finding myself playing it. Though since I haven't been able to convince a friend to purchase it yet it isn't as fun as it could be.
 
I always liked BF2 radial message system for communication. Encourages teamwork without needing mics. A massively simplified version of that might be nice. As it stands the attack/defend commands are meaningless. I can barely read the message text when I'm looking directly at it, nevermind when I'm trying to shoot people.
 
Desaparecido said:
Fuck it. I know there's problems, but it looks too cool not to buy, plus the developers seem to be on top of things. So assuming it doesn't crash, I'm up to play some GAF games.

same here, since I saw the game I was all about it. Really going to enjoy this one.
 
I see what people meant about the crashing and etcetera, but I think the graphics are great. No complaints there.

Also, I just realized the game's initials are LaG. :lol
 
Desaparecido said:
I see what people meant about the crashing and etcetera, but I think the graphics are great. No complaints there.

Also, I just realized the game's initials are LaG. :lol

So dedi servers are confirmed now?

I was quit surprised to see it on the Steam top sellers list but that should ensure a decent community, so its definitel looking interesting but I've got too big a backlog if I'm honest.
 
Bought it and aside from the crashing issues it seems pretty cool. I saw a Fatshark post on the Steam forums that they have fixed the crashing issues and uploaded a new build and are just waiting for it to be published.
 
This game is fucking awesome, the shooting mechanics are really satisfying. Shame nobody seems to know how to play it :(
 
Just saw the quicklook on giantbomb and the game looks awesome. Too bad i already have a bazillion multiplayer online "FPS" (this is not first person, but whatever) class based games to play.

It's going on my "i want it, but i'll wait for a discount" list.
 
Watching the quicklook i saw they collect money, is there any use for this money?

Also is there any kind of persistence between games?
 
bucknuticus said:
Watching the quicklook i saw they collect money, is there any use for this money?

Also is there any kind of persistence between games?

The dollars merely represent the points your team has gotten.

The levels you acquire in a match don't carry over to any other matches, if thats what you meant by persistence.
 
So I just picked it up after watching the Quick Look, and I just decided to let it throw me into a quick match. It found something and decided to create a server before timing out. And it left me on a blank Quick Match screen with no way to get off it except to alt-f4 out of the game.

Not exactly the best first impression. :\

Steam ID's I AM JOHN! (surprise) if anyone wants to play/I can get into a game.
 
Tried playing a few matches, all that was going on was people not knowing what to do and rubberbanding everywhere shooting.
 
So the game comes out in 3 days, figure I'll do a little sum up for people.

First off Patch 0.7 & 0.8

0.7 said:
• New version for patch info
• Added ping for server selection list
• Fix for crash when joining server ( where game is not started ) and then canceling
• Attacker (red) spawn in Deadwater Ranch has been changed in order to deal with spawn camping.
• Reworked spawning areas and added 2 more capture points in conquest for Bad Blood Valley.
• More achievement related bug fixes
• XP Tweaks, players receive more for captures and flags
• Fixed issue with clients freezing up in menu when joining server which did not respond
• Fixed issues with the key Mapping where toggle weapon actions could only be bound to the mouse, not keyboard.
• Fixed issue with assigning Weapons to num buttons
• Fixed issues with the aim geting stuck on screen whilst in a trap.
• Added possibility to invite friends from ingame pause menu in Steam.
• Fixed issues with EXP not being awarded in the 2nd round of Greed
• Minor tweak to carbine damage.
0.8 said:
• Set all achievements extremely low for testing purposes for beta only! All achievements will be reset with final release
• Fix for not leaving created lobbies with right mouse button
• Fixed issues with team list in loading screen when hotjoining and improved ping
• Fix for issues with revive icon and tag icon
• Fix for mouse support on disconnect dialogs
and as a bonus, better mouse feel in the ingame menu
• New viewpoint positions when waiting for level to load
• New environment settings for fort and town (updated the preview images as well!)
• Fixed random crashes in startup and when starting a server.
• Renamed Cancel button -> Back button in video settings
• Added charge damage for Trapper
• Tweaked buffalo rifle damage

• Added graphical settings for shadows, brightness etc
• Tweaked AI difficulty a bit.
• Added deaths/kills at end of round and end of game in scoreboard
• Fix for chat messages gone missing when containing ":"
• Added /stick and /unstick commands to chat to stick the chat
• Added escape to exit chat, ignore map, help, mainmenu and scoreboard show request while chat is active
• Removed say" when chat is inactive
• Tweaked colors in chat to improve visibility for blue team
• Removed a conquest zone from the greed mode.
• Added forum moderator QuickDraw McGraw to credits list (kudos to him)
• Added two more conquest zones to the ranch map.
• Fix for collision shapes
• Improved opacity texture on grass
• More fixes to carriables and switching weapons.
• Added two more conquest zones to the town map. Let's see how this plays out.
• Removed greed signs from conquest mode.

Most of that is self explanatory I think.

So yeah, adding ping was a huge help. I was actually able to find matches under 100ms which was nice. The sniper before the patch was inaccurate until you were scoped in for a few seconds, but was often a one shot body shot. Now it's accurate as soon as you zoom in, but you don't do one shot kills to the body right off the bat. I assume they're following the sniper in TF2 principle here. I don't actually play Sniper much myself.

Speaking of classes, the Blaster is a little overpowered, the shotgun has decent range, but it's the fire rate that makes it so good. You can quickly fire both shells at someone, then run back and forth while you reload. This makes it difficult for other classes to land the 3 or so shots they need to kill you before you reload and nail them again. Generally it's easy enough to force an encounter at a range where your second volley will kill them. It ends up that a Blaster usually is more effective than a Gunslinger in most situations. A small nerf to blaster damage dropoff would probably help, but I'm no expert.

I think the game is at it's best for greed and conquest gametypes. Unless the teams are very even, Shootout will become a spawn camp very quickly, and no one has fun. Unfortunate side effect of the spawning system. Robbery and Powderkeg have the same spawning system problems, but coupled with how you have to move powderkegs/gold around WHILE EVERYONE ON THE OTHER TEAM CAN SEE YOU THROUGH WALLS, well you're pretty much fucked unless you are MUCH better than the other team. In theory since each match consists of two rounds, with the teams switching sides, it is balanced in the strictest of definitions. But generally this results in both teams successfully defending, and a tie game.

Greed still has the Gold carriers spotted through walls thing, but since both teams are trying to steal the money, they both have to deal with it, and will not be able to win just by brutally raping money carriers over and over. As well there is little incentive to spawn camp, as you'll generally be trying to haul gold back to your own base instead of hanging around the opponents. So it ends up working pretty well, even without strictly evenly skilled teams.

Conquest works really well, the sequential nature of capturing points tends to result in gang sticking together, which results in some pretty good gang on gang firefights. As well, if one team captures all 5 points, the score starts shooting up REALLY quickly, putting a quick end to unbalanced matches, allowing everyone to move onto the next round where hopefully the teams get shuffled into something a little more even. It does however lack the western feel of stealing gold....

Random thoughts...

Random crits are bad. They just result in bullshit, either a kill or a death I didn't deserve. Should be gone, and the Trapper synergy effect redone.

Crouching was mentioned a fair amount earlier in the thread as something that people want added. I know it seems harmless, but with the amount of third person camera shenanigans that are already occurring, crouching would do far more harm than good.

The other team should not be able to see the health crosses coming off your body when you're regenerating health. Very easy to follow an injured enemy.

If dedicated servers don't make it in, at least allow people to create a match with themselves as a spectator, so they can make their own server for people to play on.

Some basic in game communication, something like 'need backup', and tie it with some HUD indicator of who is talking.

A bit more feedback on taking damage, it's fairly hard to notice as is. If, as a design choice, they don't want you knowing the direction you're being shot from, fine. But at least flash a bit of red on the screen. But no strawberry jam plz.

Allow me to repick my class multiple times while waiting to respawn. Situations change quickly.

In the end, I'm gonna keep the game. When it works, I like it a lot. The community is small, so sometimes I go on and they're simply isn't a non-laggy match for me to play on, but it works out often enough for me to deem it worth the cash.
 
PedroLumpy said:
Speaking of classes, the Blaster is a little overpowered, the shotgun has decent range, but it's the fire rate that makes it so good. You can quickly fire both shells at someone, then run back and forth while you reload. This makes it difficult for other classes to land the 3 or so shots they need to kill you before you reload and nail them again. Generally it's easy enough to force an encounter at a range where your second volley will kill them. It ends up that a Blaster usually is more effective than a Gunslinger in most situations. A small nerf to blaster damage dropoff would probably help, but I'm no expert.
I think the Blaster's damage is fine. He has a shotgun - he SHOULD be the best at close range. I think it all balances out by the fact that it's far too easy to accidentally fire off both shots and his reload time isn't so great (not to mention that rolling resets your reload, but more on that later). The only thing I would nerf is that he gets too good range, especially when you rank up. Getting shotgun sniped is just dumb.

PedroLumpy said:
Random crits are bad. They just result in bullshit, either a kill or a death I didn't deserve. Should be gone, and the Trapper synergy effect redone.
The crits don't bother me. They seem no more frequent or unbalanced than in TF2, so I dunno.

PedroLumpy said:
The other team should not be able to see the health crosses coming off your body when you're regenerating health. Very easy to follow an injured enemy.
Again, I disagree. I like it because it adds some danger to getting hit by making you an easier target, but if you're smart you can use it to your advantage by leading someone tailing you into a gang of your guys or a trap or something. It's only really a problem when you're flying solo, which is what you're not really supposed to be doing anyway.

PedroLumpy said:
Some basic in game communication, something like 'need backup', and tie it with some HUD indicator of who is talking.

Allow me to repick my class multiple times while waiting to respawn. Situations change quickly.
THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS!!!

With spawn times so goddamn long on anything but Shootout, it's absolutely ridiculous that you not only can't see what your teammates are playing as to plan accordingly until you're in the game, but you can't change your class if you accidentally choose to spawn as something you didn't want to (which I've done numerous times). This is such an oversight and there's no reason you shouldn't be able to do it when every other class-based shooter lets you do it without any issue. Hell, TF2 let's you change your class without penalty if you do it within a second or two after spawning! And for a team game to have no good way to communicate with your team is preposterous. If they didn't want to (or didn't have the resources to, which is more likely the case) put in VOIP, then that sucks, but you can get around it. The way to get around that, however, is not by having a context-sensitive offensive and defensive command button that puts what you're saying in the same easy-to-miss place as where they put player deaths. I still don't think the context-sensitive system really works and they should replace it with something more akin to Valve's command system (select a type then select a preset phrase), but seriously guys, at least move that to where the chat window is or something so I can see it.

And one last complaint: the way they handle getting downed leaves something to be desired. Not that I think you should immediately be able to start firing as soon as you're smoked a la last stand in CoD4, but if it takes a Gunslinger's last bullet to down me and he has to reload, I should at least be able to get in one shot before he finishes reloading and shoots me in the face.

Other than that, though, I think the game is totally rad! Not looking forward to having my achievements reset, though, since I earned most of them before they did the boost for the new patch. :\
 
I AM JOHN! said:
I think the Blaster's damage is fine. He has a shotgun - he SHOULD be the best at close range. I think it all balances out by the fact that it's far too easy to accidentally fire off both shots and his reload time isn't so great (not to mention that rolling resets your reload, but more on that later). The only thing I would nerf is that he gets too good range, especially when you rank up. Getting shotgun sniped is just dumb.

You realize you're agreeing with me. I also said the range should be nerfed just a tad. And Blaster rank affects health.

I AM JOHN! said:
The crits don't bother me. They seem no more frequent or unbalanced than in TF2, so I dunno.

I dunno, I see em all the time in this compared to TF2, but I play Scout mostly in TF2 so that might have something to do with it. But they're fucked up in TF2 anyway. Their very nature is unbalanced, and they serve no purpose. They might not be hugely damaging to the game, but they bring nothing good to the table.

I AM JOHN! said:
Again, I disagree. I like it because it adds some danger to getting hit by making you an easier target, but if you're smart you can use it to your advantage by leading someone tailing you into a gang of your guys or a trap or something. It's only really a problem when you're flying solo, which is what you're not really supposed to be doing anyway.

When you're flying solo it's not a problem because the health crosses only appear when you're near a teammate.

There is already danger to getting hit, you lose health and you're easier to kill. Why should I take another handicap where people can easily see where I am? It's silly, again it's not a huge deal, but it adds nothing good to the table.

Knowing where someone is when they don't know where you are is such a powerful advantage. Sure you can talk about some hypothetical situation where you lead em to a bunch of your friends, but that's not realistic, especially considering the hurdles in communicating with your team on short notice, let alone having people actually willing to follow through with your plan.
 
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