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League of Legends |OT10| Botlane Was A Mistake, It's Nothing But Thresh

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What was that thing they talked about his W and experience gains?

Let's see.

The first thing I wanted to weigh in on is that the changes are definitely trying some pretty out there and meta breaking ideas (i've always admired CertainlyT for his innovation). This comes with a bunch of costs, but also what we think is more benefit. Making an immobile melee kit with no CC work in the bot lane is a really crazy task and from the experience that we have from internally testing it (and you guys are experiencing on the PBE), it takes some time to get used to.

I N N O V A T I O N
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Is what they're calling it. "Takes some time to get used to" my ass, with the damage nerfs to E he'll have a hard time at bot lane. Especially since they're also nerfing his MS by 15. Making him as slow as ADCs and slower than Vayne and Draven. For a melee champion.

Introducing some new ways to break the meta while preserving the conventional solo lane viability of the character is our goal. When it hits live, try this new morde wherever you prefer and see what works/doesn't. We will be listening and responding to feedback in the following patches for sure.

"Preserving."

I'm sure they meant butchering.

Some things we would fix if we saw them on live:
Morde not viable as a bot lane pick (this doesn't mean he has to show up in pro play)
Morde not viable as a solo laner (same as above, pro play is not how we judge this)
Morde mechanics are buggy
Aspects of morde kit are not fun for the majority of players after people have had a chance to try it out and adap. Sorry that this post doesn't address any of the specific points people have been making, but I did want to pop in and give some context on our approach to making sure that the morde update is +fun +value for players, which is the #1 goal.

I'm glad that idiots can take Morde into the jungle and bottom and they'll look at this and go 'BOY THIS MEANS MORDE WORKS'. Yeah sure Morde is fun just like Taric can be fun. Unfortunately 'fun' is highly subjective. I'm surprised Riot doesn't know that.

"There's some truth in what he's saying about morde's kit not having the amount of healthy 1 on 1 interactions that a full top to bottom rework like Sion or Fiora brings to those lanes. CertainlyT is a super perfectionist and he's just calling it like it is here, morde is not the pinnacle of solo lane skill based matchups.
That said, I think that we're taking a "do no harm" stance on morde's solo lane compared to live. The solo laner may not be getting to exploit some of the crazy new tools (duo XP, dragon, W) as well as a duo morde, but he should be roughly as powerful/fun as live mordekaiser."

Oh, I'm glad his solo lane is 'roughly as powerful/fun(there's that word again! Fun is being used objectively because fuck you!) as live Mordekaiser.'

Except he isn't.

"If solo morde ends up nerfed, we will address it. I'm just spelling out some of the goals/stance on solo vs duo morde."

Uhuh, if the goal is 'fun' well you fucked up.

Oh this part is gold-
If it turns out that most players are still favoring solo morde and that this version of W has too much of a feel cost, we would consider shifting some of his power out of P, Q and E to make room for some sort of "weaker but castable solo" version of W

"Hey how would we fix W being duo only? Nerf his whole kit and let him cast a weak version of W on himself. BECAUSE WE AT RIOT WANT FUN."

His power is so much more melee focused now that I honestly barely noticed it when playing. If he's underpowered, range is an easy number to buff.

What range? His only range is E, which is horribly nerfed. Oh this is my favorite one-

Waveclear has still seemed pretty strong, and we've employed the "merciless pushing wave into enemy turret" strat for bot lane wins many times internally. Granted, this may be a nerf from a full AP morde on live, but I think he should still have enough waveclear to feel good."

Internally. MAY be a nerf from live. Like....holy shit, they should never use internal testing as a gauge to how a community of millions will react to the changes.

Sometimes the balance team at riot is really, really stupid.

His passive is linked to his HP now, so Tank Morde's back in a sense :p
Does his W no longer give defensive boost? It should at least give it to an ally if not to Morde....

Nope, it no longer gives it to anyone. Just a stronger MS boost compared to live.
 

Sofo

Member
Sign me in! May I disappear from this thread as fast as I did on the last one!
pls no, I like it here, dad pls no!

Thanks for the thread <:! Looks nice! I like the title lol.

Btw, as I missed some patches, how/when is it optimal to build Zeke's? It seems interesting tbh!

The other day we played 3 games after like months of not playing and god I was rusty mechanically speaking... ._. Managed to snatch a win but it had to do more with the other team losing than us winning lol. I feel I've lost so much "sharpness"!
 

NCR Redslayer

NeoGAF's Vegeta
Let's see.



"Hey how would we fix W being duo only? Nerf his whole kit and let him cast a weak version of W on himself. BECAUSE WE AT RIOT WANT FUN."



What range? His only range is E, which is horribly nerfed. Oh this is my favorite one-



Internally. MAY be a nerf from live. Like....holy shit, they should never use internal testing as a gauge to how a community of millions will react to the changes.

Sometimes the balance team at riot is really, really stupid.



Nope, it no longer gives it to anyone. Just a stronger MS boost compared to live.
How does his W even work? Also his Q technically is ranged since it extends the range of of next auto attack but is barely noticeable. And lastly, "pushing bot to the tower" is a terrible thing to say that is a good tactic.
 
How does his W even work? Also his Q technically range since it extends the range of of next auto attack but is barely noticeable. And lastly, "pushing bot to the tower" is a terrible thing to say that good tactic.

Basically you can only use W on a teammate. Think of it like Lulus shield but it's not castable on yourself. Only on an ally. It's...I have no fucking idea what they were thinking. And yeah technically his Q gains some range, but I don't see them adding 400 range to it.

I mean....if their barometer of morde being viable includes 'Pushing bot to the tower means he still has pushing power!' then I have to question their intelligence. Do they not play their own damn game?
 

killatopak

Member
Breezy you need to calm down. You said the same things when Fiora got reworked and when it went live it wasn't as bad as you thought it would be. We should give it a chance and try it first before judging it. I understand the concept may be garbage to you or anyone else but at this point none of us have played him yet to know the final verdict. Maybe you should go read some reviews of the guys who played him in PBE to have some concrete details.
 

NCR Redslayer

NeoGAF's Vegeta
Basically you can only use W on a teammate. Think of it like Lulus shield but it's not castable on yourself. Only on an ally. It's...I have no fucking idea what they were thinking. And yeah technically his Q gains some range, but I don't see them adding 400 range to it.

I mean....if their barometer of morde being viable includes 'Pushing bot to the tower means he still has pushing power!' then I have to question their intelligence. Do they not play their own damn game?
I hear many developers are not good at their own games.
 
Breezy you need to calm down. You said the same things when Fiora got reworked and when it went live it wasn't as bad as you thought it would be. We should give it a chance and try it first before judging it. I understand the concept may be garbage to you or anyone else but at this point none of us have played him yet to know the final verdict. Maybe you should go read some reviews of the guys who played him in PBE to have some concrete details.

Fiora is trash tho. Nothing really special. They took away her identity by making her into quasi support bruiser who still falls short to other, better bruisers.
 

Tizoc

Member
I'm willing to bet they revert or alter Morde's W so it gives defensive boost again.
Say you're Top Morde but hug the tower to be safe; what good is your W if the only thing you can use it on is a minion that gets wasted in a few seconds?

The way they made his W is like they're trying to get more unusual bot lane combos like the ones you might see at tournies, except that Morde doesn't have any safe pokes like Braum, Zyra, etc.

Really as is he's a walking tank more so than before, but his damage output leaves much to be desired, at least from what we're reading.

At any rate, I think players might start banning Darius more now but I'm glad his Passive is AD now, even though it means Black Cleaver will stack instantly unless his passive is excluded.
 

Ambition

Member
Breezy you need to calm down. You said the same things when Fiora got reworked and when it went live it wasn't as bad as you thought it would be. We should give it a chance and try it first before judging it. I understand the concept may be garbage to you or anyone else but at this point none of us have played him yet to know the final verdict. Maybe you should go read some reviews of the guys who played him in PBE to have some concrete details.

Morde is pretty trash right now on the PBE tbh..
 
And then there's the fact that half of Mordes spells(Q and E) still cost health. In a bot lane, that is incredibly disadvantageous due to the nature of the lane. Solo lane sure it's manageable, but in a botlane where 2 characters can freely harass you at range? Have fun wasting your HP trying to farm or push whilst getting harassed because you can't last hit with your auto since you're melee, and if you do farm with your E have fun pushing up to their tower and then getting ganked at half life because the only way you could farm is using Q and E.

It's full of fuck. It's a literal 'What were they thinking' moment.
 
I've just gotten into this game. Normally I stay clear of stuff like this, but friends were playing so I joined in.

It's odd to me that people can stick with a game like this for so long. Characters and items are constantly changing so much that I feel like once I get used to one character it's probably just going to get nerfed or something. Another thing that's so odd is that there are several different gametypes that I like so much more than standard Summoners Rift, but they don't ever keep them around. I'm really surprised ARAM is still around at this point.

That's a big reason I will NEVER invest money into this game. I don't want to put something in and get screwed.

For those of you that have been around for a good while, have you felt like you got royally screwed over by a change, and what was it?
 

killatopak

Member
I just started playing this season so I haven't felt any large changes like when preseason happens but so far I haven't felt bad about any changes yet.

I invested tons of money in the game tho. Mostly skins.

Fiora is trash tho. Nothing really special. They took away her identity by making her into quasi support bruiser who still falls short to other, better bruisers.
I dunno but I feel like she got stronger and an actual fencer like her lore suggests.
Morde is pretty trash right now on the PBE tbh..
Oh...
 

NCR Redslayer

NeoGAF's Vegeta
I've just gotten into this game. Normally I stay clear of stuff like this, but friends were playing so I joined in.

It's odd to me that people can stick with a game like this for so long. Characters and items are constantly changing so much that I feel like once I get used to one character it's probably just going to get nerfed or something. Another thing that's so odd is that there are several different gametypes that I like so much more than standard Summoners Rift, but they don't ever keep them around. I'm really surprised ARAM is still around at this point.

That's a big reason I will NEVER invest money into this game. I don't want to put something in and get screwed.

For those of you that have been around for a good while, have you felt like you got royally screwed over by a change, and what was it?

Most of the big ones seem to be character overhauls, but they're much needed.

I don't regret buying my skins.
 
game doesnt change nearly as much as dota does patch to patch and riot never nerfs the special snowflake fotm until 1 month after its dead
 

Sofo

Member
That's a big reason I will NEVER invest money into this game. I don't want to put something in and get screwed.

For those of you that have been around for a good while, have you felt like you got royally screwed over by a change, and what was it?

You say that now, like all of us did at one point, lol. I can almost guarantee that if you end up sticking, you will invest maybe a little of money in it.

The only thing that kinda screwed up for me was that I had no idea our "return" ticket to roll-back transactions (be it with IPs or RPs) was only a three-time-deal so... yeah, don't use it for IP-based transactions!
 

faridmon

Member
Also climbed to Bronze III and the first 2 matches I had teamamtes who seemed not to know the basics of the game, let alone play to win.

I have a feeling, the higher I climb up, the more annoying people I will play with.
 
Also climbed to Bronze III and the first 2 matches I had teamamtes who seemed not to know the basics of the game, let alone play to win.

I have a feeling, the higher I climb up, the more annoying people I will play with.

the only annoying people you'll encounter are whom I like to call, "the life-longers". The ones permanently in Bronze/Silver/Gold who have been there after 100+ ranked matches and still believe the only reason they're there is because of bad teammates. they are usually the ragers, as they are victims of circumstance rather than victims of their own inflated sense of skill.
 
You say that now, like all of us did at one point, lol. I can almost guarantee that if you end up sticking, you will invest maybe a little of money in it.

The only thing that kinda screwed up for me was that I had no idea our "return" ticket to roll-back transactions (be it with IPs or RPs) was only a three-time-deal so... yeah, don't use it for IP-based transactions!

I'm pretty good about not doing so. I played TF2 quite a bit and never felt the urge to buy anything, although, I'd feel a lot more comfortable doing it with that game.

Most of the big ones seem to be character overhauls, but they're much needed.

I don't regret buying my skins.

Idk, some of them yes, but stuff like new Darius doesn't need to exist imo. He already was a powerhouse, so a buff is insane.

I just started playing Fiora, hadn't touched her before the rework, so I can't say much about that.
 

faridmon

Member
I was stuck in VI and V for quite sometime, but sometimes I do think that, the reason for that is not due to me [spoiler[ but many of it was playing badly[/spoiler] but when I was there, it felt that everyone was on the same wavelength, all of us weren't good, but knew the fact that we weren't. Listened to pings and any advice was taken gladly.

The 2 games I have played in II, had people who just never listened to pings, gets angry once you tell them not to push (and die when they ignore it) and also no one warded, which felt wired since there were matches where wards were put before.

Maybe I am just imagining things, but I was surprised how much different people seemed from V and IV to III, even though there isn't supposed to be much of a difference...
 

killatopak

Member
The problem with Darius is he's easily kited come late game unless he snowballed super hard. Just play defensively against him until laning phase ends.

Ranged top laners are his bane so maybe use that if you want to bully Darius instead of vice versa.
 

NCR Redslayer

NeoGAF's Vegeta
I'm pretty good about not doing so. I played TF2 quite a bit and never felt the urge to buy anything, although, I'd feel a lot more comfortable doing it with that game.



Idk, some of them yes, but stuff like new Darius doesn't need to exist imo. He already was a powerhouse, so a buff is insane.

I just started playing Fiora, hadn't touched her before the rework, so I can't say much about that.

Darius had a problem being using late game like Renekton, not inherently tanky or damaging enough to be relevant late game.
 
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The gravestones. Incredible.
 

kenbo

Member
I don't feel superlatively attached to any character and that's why I don't get so upset and reactionary when changes or reworks happen
 

NCR Redslayer

NeoGAF's Vegeta
I don't feel superlatively attached to any character and that's why I don't get so upset and reactionary when changes or reworks happen

But when has a champ you have won a lot with ever felt underwhelming? When they get nerfed.

Eve am cry.
 

kenbo

Member
I've just gotten into this game. Normally I stay clear of stuff like this, but friends were playing so I joined in.

It's odd to me that people can stick with a game like this for so long. Characters and items are constantly changing so much that I feel like once I get used to one character it's probably just going to get nerfed or something.
...
That's a big reason I will NEVER invest money into this game. I don't want to put something in and get screwed.

For those of you that have been around for a good while, have you felt like you got royally screwed over by a change, and what was it?

You should only buy skins because you really like the skin, not because the character is currently overpowered or what not

That's an easy way to get royally screwed over as you say

Skins however will usually always look the same. Take the arcane ziggs skin for example, even if he was trash, I'd get pleasure out of playing that skin because it's so beautiful.

But when has a champ you have won a lot with ever felt underwhelming? When they get nerfed.

Eve am cry.
Nerfs should be the least upsetting change
 

Sofo

Member
Looked up one of the old threads to link to someone and saw all the banned brethren

rip :(

That is not necessarily bad!

Pd. Even though I was absent for most of the last few months of the last thread I was kinda expecting to make the Hall of Shame of posts ._. Oh well!
 
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