NathanMcMahon
Banned
and then a lot of times you'll go into aperture priority, but knowing what is going on behind the camera while using it is great knowledge.
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Learning Photography
- Thread starter phisheep
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and then a lot of times you'll go into aperture priority, but knowing what is going on behind the camera while using it is great knowledge.
Always-honest
Banned
Yes. You have to learn the basics early on. And for me it's still mostly manual and most of the rest is AV. But you should not be emberrassed to use some of the other modes. They are there for a reason.
Yeah helpfull stuff here.
Porcile
Member
Yes - I can't speak for everyone but using 35mm film in conjunction with Prime len's has really made me appreciate just what exactly a camera is doing when you hit that shutter button.
Skel1ingt0n
I can't *believe* these lazy developers keep making file sizes so damn large. Btw, how does technology work?
May I recommend only buying a camera that you'll actually take with you?
In school, I had my own, personal mid-range bodies and lenses; and would often be holding onto prosumer bodies and L-glass for assignments. That was great on a campus where others think nothing of it.
But as I left school and began just taking photos at family events and when on the road traveling, I realized - what good does a really great body and glass do me if it's always too big and unwieldy to take with me?
I ended up getting a Fuji X-10 as a complement to my other gear; but it almost immediately became the only camera I used, and I have since sold all my other stuff, even though the other equipment was "better" in almost every regard.
Like the old saying goes, "the best camera is the one you [actually] have with you."
In school, I had my own, personal mid-range bodies and lenses; and would often be holding onto prosumer bodies and L-glass for assignments. That was great on a campus where others think nothing of it.
But as I left school and began just taking photos at family events and when on the road traveling, I realized - what good does a really great body and glass do me if it's always too big and unwieldy to take with me?
I ended up getting a Fuji X-10 as a complement to my other gear; but it almost immediately became the only camera I used, and I have since sold all my other stuff, even though the other equipment was "better" in almost every regard.
Like the old saying goes, "the best camera is the one you [actually] have with you."
Thug Waffle
Member
This thread is going to be a gold mine for me in the coming years. I'm focused on cinematography, but I love stills as well. Compositional techniques certainly transfer from one to the other, and once you add in camera motion as a device in itself, you can elicit all sorts of emotions much more effectively.
I wish I wasn't a broke ass college student so I could afford a capable DSLR, but what am I gonna do? Aside from snapping with my iPhone, I feel limited in the amount of experimentation I can do. I can read all this stuff and retain, but I personally learn how to best manipulate technology when I can fiddle with it on my own. Keep posting, ya'll! Been very helpful thus far.
I wish I wasn't a broke ass college student so I could afford a capable DSLR, but what am I gonna do? Aside from snapping with my iPhone, I feel limited in the amount of experimentation I can do. I can read all this stuff and retain, but I personally learn how to best manipulate technology when I can fiddle with it on my own. Keep posting, ya'll! Been very helpful thus far.
They're only on my iPad at this :/
I've been doing a ton of 35mm photography recently. I'm totally new to serious photography, so it's been challenging. I have a good artistic eye and seeing a lot of averages photos developed feels somewhat of a let down, but I continue to plug away. Thankfully developing remains reasonable cheap.
I suppose the one the thing I've learned is to only pick your absolute best. I mean, on a 36 exposure roll, just selecting 2 or 3 images takes a lot of self-discipline.
Is anyone on Photography GAF still shooting 35mm?
Thanks for the links anyway, it's all transferable skills
Yeah forgot to mention, as part of critiquing your own, the selection process really helps you to focus on what is best. Try to figure out what you like about a particular shot.
The skill of paring it down is essential. Unless there is a specific reason, there's no need to show shots that are very similar - choose the best one! If it really is hard and close to 50-50, then it doesn't matter, each is as good as the other so cull one at random.
Showing too many images dilutes the impact of the best few.
CrudeDiatribe
Member
I don't shoot film, but I do try to throw away most photos.
It's a good saying. I hate using my iPhone for photos so much that I gladly take my SLR with me anywhere (just the camera and a lens, no bag).
phisheep
NeoGAF's Chief Barrister
Few things I've learned:
-The two books mentioned in the OP are great and should be read by every photographer starting out. I remember being really frustrated when first starting out because the auto modes don't really produce images I like. It took a little bit of time, but eventually I learned to get the exposures I wanted using manual mode after reading those books.
-It is also good to find a few photographers that have styles you like. Every time I come across an image I like online I save it. I have stacks of books from photographers I like. Usually a few times a week I will go through things and pick out what made me want to save that image.
-Get some retouching software and learn how to use it. Even if only basic corrections are learned (saturation/exposure/color adjustments) they can really help out a photo and don't take much time.
-Don't get too caught up in gear. It's nice if you can afford it but don't worry too much if you can't. There are plenty of people taking amazing photos with cheap gear and plenty of people taking horrible photos with top of the line gear.
-As more stuff is learned a lot of photographers start to lean more towards one area. When I started shooting models I had to learn artificial lighting, networking and just dealing with models. That is a whole different set of topics to learn
-Experiment a lot, try now things even if a bunch of your photos end up being shitty. Art and Fear is a good book for the general art making & learning process: http://www.amazon.com/dp/0961454733/?tag=neogaf0e-20
I really have got to get that bit and the experimenting thing into the OP. Thanks, Darkness.
peteykirch
Member
I love "attempting" to shoot sports photography, but damn is it hard, and it's even more expensive. There's no way I can realistically afford the proper lenses so I'm stuck renting them, but it can be fun.
I'm far from an expert but I've been able to nab a few decent grabs here and there.
I know it's some what out of focus, but I love how the ball carrier is in pretty much perfect focus, it really shows off his speed, he was the fastest guy on the field all day.
I'm far from an expert but I've been able to nab a few decent grabs here and there.
I know it's some what out of focus, but I love how the ball carrier is in pretty much perfect focus, it really shows off his speed, he was the fastest guy on the field all day.
The thought process is not nearly the same when it doesn't cost you anything (but the time to delete it) when shooting digital.
When I shot film sometimes I could walk a whole afternoon and couldn't find enough subject matter to shoot a roll of 24-exposure film. I never did that when I shot digital.
Grandly I don't preach film photography anymore. It's getting to the point that its very hard to find reasonable price to develop colored films locally or online anymore. I just accept it and give it up as part of technology advancement.
But damn it winding up the film with your own thumb is so much more fun!
Pixel Pete
Member
I made a point to my GF the other day that getting at least some decent gear will help you learn. Having at least something with decent resolution, access to different focal ranges, depths of field, dynamic ranges and low light ability removes many of the boundaries that exist by not having access to a dslr and some glass.
That said, gear isn't everything
That said, gear isn't everything
BigJonsson
Member
Macro photography is challenging but the pictures are so damn cool
I neat trick I just found out is bounce flash into the upper corner over your shoulder in a small to midsize white/off-white room. I enjoy shooting pics of my family but didn't want to buy all the studio light gear for just a few pics. The only major negative is the catch lights are weak. Pretty even light actually.
This is a pic of my daughter shot this morning. I welcome tips, and I'll provide my setup and tips I know of.
Here was my setup: this was a flat off white room (her bedroom actually), she is just on her bed with a white bedspread. While I have a fast lens...flash means it isn't needed, so I used more of a telephoto. Gear: Nikon D600, shoe mounted SB-600 with stoffen diffuser. F/4.8, 1/60s. Lens 70-300mm VR (4.5-5.6) handheld.
Tips: This was at 115mm. The little shooting like this I've done conforms shown what some pros say...portrait only starts at 85mm...over 100mm is better usually. Kids are tough...mom didn't want to help me and I only had about 3 minutes before they were leaving...small ones like this....use your servo/continuous mode...and I think single point af is better than any of the auto or multipoints...aim for the eye in closest to the camera. In this one she was wiggling all over and I had maybe a second at this exact pose...so I missed a bit and got the eye on the right (her left). I probably should have cropped to get a better composition (rule of thirds). This is right off the camera RAW except Lightroom autotone and lens correction, export to jpeg.
_DSC0362 by ptaaty, on Flickr
This is a pic of my daughter shot this morning. I welcome tips, and I'll provide my setup and tips I know of.
Here was my setup: this was a flat off white room (her bedroom actually), she is just on her bed with a white bedspread. While I have a fast lens...flash means it isn't needed, so I used more of a telephoto. Gear: Nikon D600, shoe mounted SB-600 with stoffen diffuser. F/4.8, 1/60s. Lens 70-300mm VR (4.5-5.6) handheld.
Tips: This was at 115mm. The little shooting like this I've done conforms shown what some pros say...portrait only starts at 85mm...over 100mm is better usually. Kids are tough...mom didn't want to help me and I only had about 3 minutes before they were leaving...small ones like this....use your servo/continuous mode...and I think single point af is better than any of the auto or multipoints...aim for the eye in closest to the camera. In this one she was wiggling all over and I had maybe a second at this exact pose...so I missed a bit and got the eye on the right (her left). I probably should have cropped to get a better composition (rule of thirds). This is right off the camera RAW except Lightroom autotone and lens correction, export to jpeg.
_DSC0362 by ptaaty, on Flickr
chaostrophy
Member
Looking back on when I was just getting started, some basic tips that I wish I had read:
-Shoot RAW, or RAW+JPG. You might think at first that JPG is good enough, but processing functionality in software is increasing all the time, and most likely you will want to go back to your earlier shots and try to get the most quality out of them. This is something I wish I would have done. Because...
-Photos capture moments in time- this isn't just true for street photography, but for "static" subjects as well. I do a lot of urbex shoots so I can't just go back and re-shoot the buildings I was at when I first got in to the hobby...many of them are now demolished. One I really liked burned down this week. Never assume you'll have another chance to get any shots.
-If you shoot RAW, you can focus on learning about the basic camera settings: aperture, shutter speed, ISO, exposure compensation. RAW format makes it unnecessary to worry about white balance, contrast, sharpness, saturation, noise reduction, art filters/film emulation, etc. when you're shooting, as you can change those after the fact with no loss in image quality.
-Get a cloud backup service for your pictures. I use CrashPlan- $50/year for unlimited storage. Given how much photography equipment costs this is dirt cheap, and so worth it for the piece of mind.
-Don't believe the hype about how buying prime lenses magically aids composition, or you should buy any lenses just as an upgrade to a kit lens. You can 'zoom with your feet' or see a constant perspective with any kit zoom lens, just set it to a focal length you want to try and go out shooting without touching the zoom ring. Eventually this will help you be able to look at a subject/scene and visualize roughly what focal length you should use to photograph it, and help you decide what additional lenses would be most useful to buy.
-Shoot RAW, or RAW+JPG. You might think at first that JPG is good enough, but processing functionality in software is increasing all the time, and most likely you will want to go back to your earlier shots and try to get the most quality out of them. This is something I wish I would have done. Because...
-Photos capture moments in time- this isn't just true for street photography, but for "static" subjects as well. I do a lot of urbex shoots so I can't just go back and re-shoot the buildings I was at when I first got in to the hobby...many of them are now demolished. One I really liked burned down this week. Never assume you'll have another chance to get any shots.
-If you shoot RAW, you can focus on learning about the basic camera settings: aperture, shutter speed, ISO, exposure compensation. RAW format makes it unnecessary to worry about white balance, contrast, sharpness, saturation, noise reduction, art filters/film emulation, etc. when you're shooting, as you can change those after the fact with no loss in image quality.
-Get a cloud backup service for your pictures. I use CrashPlan- $50/year for unlimited storage. Given how much photography equipment costs this is dirt cheap, and so worth it for the piece of mind.
-Don't believe the hype about how buying prime lenses magically aids composition, or you should buy any lenses just as an upgrade to a kit lens. You can 'zoom with your feet' or see a constant perspective with any kit zoom lens, just set it to a focal length you want to try and go out shooting without touching the zoom ring. Eventually this will help you be able to look at a subject/scene and visualize roughly what focal length you should use to photograph it, and help you decide what additional lenses would be most useful to buy.
Pixel Pete
Member
I will always recommend a fast cheap prime. Most of them are great optically for their price (low) and they open up the wonderful world of shallow depth of field.
Also, just because you can 'lock' a focal length doesnt mean people will. There is no better way to get people to move around a photo than by having a lens that offers them no alternative.
Also fast primes are amazing for night time social photography, provided you can get your hands on something wider than a 50mm.
Thug Waffle
Member
Those Rutgers uniforms are sick as fuck.
I would like to know more about RAW, most of the time I just drag my Jpegs into Lightroom and it seems good enough, what is benefits I can gain going to RAW?
Also flash systems, I was wondering if I should use one for family pictures but have no idea to start or the best way to utilize it.
Also flash systems, I was wondering if I should use one for family pictures but have no idea to start or the best way to utilize it.
Chuckie
Member
You can adjust whitebalance and overal change tones, colours and vibrance of the image without doing any damage to it or lose any quality.
RAW is exactly that, the raw data directly from your cameras sensor. To create your jpeg, your camera takes that same raw data and processes it with its own software referring to either the default settings or those you have chosen for it. In doing so, it throws away information it considers unnecessary to produce the final image; this missing information is very useful.
By saving your images in RAW, since the image is untouched, you have ultimate control and can choose in much finer detail how you would like your image to be processed using software such as Lightroom. The dynamic range you have at your disposal is much greater, allowing you to lift the shadows and bring back the highlights to a certain extent, should you under or overexpose the image (this of course, has its limits). You have fine control of the colour temperature or white balance in the image, it is not fixed as it is with a jpeg file. You have finer control over noise reduction and sharpness, specific controls on how colours are displayed.
Most importantly, since you are using Lightroom, is that you get the full benefit of it. Lightroom works best when it has the RAW file, with the jpeg much of the data is missing and Lightroom is hamstrung by what it has been given to work with. I know you're not saying this, but I will mention this for others: some say that they don't like processing images at all because it corrupts them and it becomes less genuine, and this is their justification for using the camera generated jpeg; this is a mistake because, as I mentioned earlier, the image is still processed by the camera which does alter what was captured by the sensor.
Post processing using RAW data turns the control over to the user, so they can have the image exactly as they want it. It may be overwhelming at first, but through experimentation and asking questions, you can become better at it rather quickly. In Lightroom, it is non-destructive, you can't mess up at all because the reset and undo buttons are always there; you have infinite attempts.
There is no rule to cropping, aside from any composition rules you may want to keep in mind. Be aware that the more you crop, the more resolution you will lose. With non-destructive editors like Lightroom, the data won't be gone forever if you change your mind but that's not an advantage if you're cropping out a part of the image you didn't want there in the first place.
Once you are able to picture how you want the final image to appear before pressing the shutter button, you will find yourself cropping much less (though sometimes it's unavoidable) or not at all by getting it right in-camera. You will also, by the same virtue of knowing what you want beforehand, be much quicker at post processing, knowing exactly what you want going in.
This takes time and practice, but it is another rewarding aspect of photography.
Icelandic_Jazz
Member
Awesome thread, subbed. I really love lighting in general, but I should jump into the technical stuff and set myself up with a kit.
RAW holds much more information and allows non-destructive editing.
phisheep
NeoGAF's Chief Barrister
I cropped a lot when I started. In fact I think I nearly never left a photo uncropped.
Mostly that's because I was rotten at composing in-frame and experimenting with cropping is a really handy way of helping with composition. It's only ever too much if you run out of pixels for whatever you are trying to do with the picture.
Regarding RAW, trying to cover what others haven't:
RAW files use 12-14 bits for each color, usually uncompressed (or losslessly).
jpeg I believe tops out at 8 bits (24 bit). The files are considerably larger with RAW (over 20MB on my D600)...because more info is there.
While there is some debate whether displays and humans really benefit above 24...there isn't a debate on the processing side. Those bits all represent data - data going through math. If you do any processing the extra bits make anywhere from a small difference to a large one...depending on type and amount.
Exposure tweaking is also another huge benefit. RAW provides more headroom on either side of a jpeg. In fact there is so much information on some cameras you can basically get a low to moderate HDR image out of it. You know that bright background and dark subject? Much easier to compensate for with a RAW file.
It all boils down to this...RAW is all the info from your sensor, exposure is all that has been gathered (even there you can have multiple stops of extra headroom). Jpeg is the output after all parameters are entered by the camera and the data is compressed/squeezed down to creating that final image on a perceptual basis. You decide to change any of the parameters on the now compressed image---the resulting jpeg from a jpeg is degraded. A RAW from a jpeg is exactly as good as if you picked the perfect input parameters in the field.
RAW files use 12-14 bits for each color, usually uncompressed (or losslessly).
jpeg I believe tops out at 8 bits (24 bit). The files are considerably larger with RAW (over 20MB on my D600)...because more info is there.
While there is some debate whether displays and humans really benefit above 24...there isn't a debate on the processing side. Those bits all represent data - data going through math. If you do any processing the extra bits make anywhere from a small difference to a large one...depending on type and amount.
Exposure tweaking is also another huge benefit. RAW provides more headroom on either side of a jpeg. In fact there is so much information on some cameras you can basically get a low to moderate HDR image out of it. You know that bright background and dark subject? Much easier to compensate for with a RAW file.
It all boils down to this...RAW is all the info from your sensor, exposure is all that has been gathered (even there you can have multiple stops of extra headroom). Jpeg is the output after all parameters are entered by the camera and the data is compressed/squeezed down to creating that final image on a perceptual basis. You decide to change any of the parameters on the now compressed image---the resulting jpeg from a jpeg is degraded. A RAW from a jpeg is exactly as good as if you picked the perfect input parameters in the field.
CrudeDiatribe
Member
Using JPEGs from your camera is like having your film developed by the grocery store. If that's all you have time for, do it, otherwise, shoot RAW if your camera supports it.
He was talking about only keeping the 3-4 great ones on a roll of film after development, I think.
I do that more and more. Time is my most valuable resource, and from not motor-driving anything that strikes my fancy to mercilessly deleting images that aren't good is really useful to me.
He was talking about only keeping the 3-4 great ones on a roll of film after development, I think.
I do that more and more. Time is my most valuable resource, and from not motor-driving anything that strikes my fancy to mercilessly deleting images that aren't good is really useful to me.
Flash is a whole 'nother beast. In general the on camera flash is awful and should only be used for fill. If you do get a flash for your camera hot-shoe, shooting up and using the ceiling to bounce the flash will generally look better. There is way too much to go into about flash, but if you have specific questions I can go into it with more detail.
Chuckie
Member
I once read as a tip in a photography magazine to take your smallest memorycard when you go out for a day of taking pictures. It forces you to make decisions of what to shoot.
Ofcourse you can still delete (unlike film) so it is not the exact same, but it does mean you can only have a limited amount of pictures you take home at the end of the day.
What a beautiful shot. I was interested in astrophotography until I realize how freaking difficult it is...
what i have done:
Shoot with a prime lens. Like the 50mm 1.8 to start. You will learn definitely be better doing composition. Cause you will walk. You will get down on your knees/lie down. You will see the world with other perspectives.
Zooming is fun for the beginning, but i always think you don't learn anything on the start. Don't crop so massively on the start.
Shoot in raw. You will shoot oneself in the foot, when you see the jpeg on your machine and and want to get better processing results later. And try to stay on ISO 100 for the start. Play with aperture.
It's not about the "hardware". i started with a 450D and to be honest: i have done back in there some of my favorite photos. You can also get some good photos with an iPhone.
Get some inspiration by other photographers. Or just try to "imitate" some of their pictures, which you like. You will learn a lot by trying to get the same results.
Don't get frustrated on the start. It takes time. That goes for shooting and also for processing. It's always trial and error. You will see once you will see back, how you got better and better.
I also got the "photographers eye" on the start, but to be honest: it didn't helped me a lot. Nice photos, some good tips but the best way: go get out and take photos.
Shoot with a prime lens. Like the 50mm 1.8 to start. You will learn definitely be better doing composition. Cause you will walk. You will get down on your knees/lie down. You will see the world with other perspectives.
Zooming is fun for the beginning, but i always think you don't learn anything on the start. Don't crop so massively on the start.
Shoot in raw. You will shoot oneself in the foot, when you see the jpeg on your machine and and want to get better processing results later. And try to stay on ISO 100 for the start. Play with aperture.
It's not about the "hardware". i started with a 450D and to be honest: i have done back in there some of my favorite photos. You can also get some good photos with an iPhone.
Get some inspiration by other photographers. Or just try to "imitate" some of their pictures, which you like. You will learn a lot by trying to get the same results.
Don't get frustrated on the start. It takes time. That goes for shooting and also for processing. It's always trial and error. You will see once you will see back, how you got better and better.
I also got the "photographers eye" on the start, but to be honest: it didn't helped me a lot. Nice photos, some good tips but the best way: go get out and take photos.
One think i think that really helped me when I started learning to use a Digital SLR was being able to see other users EXIF data (essentially a data file listing the settings the camera used to take the shot) on sites like flickr and 500px.
It made it so much easier to figure out how certain shots were taken and what to do to emulate them.
It made it so much easier to figure out how certain shots were taken and what to do to emulate them.
Pixel Pete
Member
Don't be afraid to rape your photos in post-processing, as you will learn exactly how far a photo can be pushed, and how you actually feel about that.
You'd be amazed at what was originally an ordinary photo turning out great, but more importantly, you won't know how you feel about that level of manipulation until you try it yourself.
Using RAW, as stated above, allows you to be relentless with your post work without permanently affecting the photo.
You'd be amazed at what was originally an ordinary photo turning out great, but more importantly, you won't know how you feel about that level of manipulation until you try it yourself.
Using RAW, as stated above, allows you to be relentless with your post work without permanently affecting the photo.
I will back whatever you have to say.
lbcyalater
Member
One thing I would like to see in this thread is good youtube tutorials. I have alot of basic knowledge of photography but certains aspects seem to be difficult for me to learn (flash photography) and I find it difficult to find really good tutorials that have helpful tips, most are just "hey, look at me while I shoot this model"
Pixel Pete
Member
flash is a bit like that from what I've seen as well. I get the impression you can only learn so much about flash without actually using flashes and deflectors/diffusers.
I'd like to learn more about flash, but the majority of its applications are (afaik) aimed at studio/model photography. Also I'm by and large a natural light photographer and loooove me some low light/fast lens action.
I'm the same, always used fast primes and only occasionally use a basic bounce flash when I run out of light. Would love to know how to shoot with flash properly.
Dance Inferno
Unconfirmed Member
I read the thread title as "Learning Pornography." Anyway this is a good thread, I've been interested in getting into photography for a while now but I'm just super lazy. Maybe this will help me get off my ass.
dark_chris
Member
One thing I never got about photography is how people pronounced it.
They pronounced it as pho-ta-graphy and others pronounced it as fa-ta-graphy.
They pronounced it as pho-ta-graphy and others pronounced it as fa-ta-graphy.
lbcyalater
Member
Vietnamese people (or anyone who enjoys good noodles) would read that the same way lol
dark_chris
Member
Sooo is that the correct way to say it? =p
Pixel Pete
Member
how do you like it? I'm thinking of getting one for the times I don't/can't carry around my a65
Pixel Pete
Member
sensor size?
CrudeDiatribe
Member
I've only ever heard it as 'pho-tog-raphy'.
How do you like it? I'm thinking of getting it.
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