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"Leave us alone or kill us all", Muslims shield Christians from terrorists in Kenya

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R

RustyNails

Member
Muslims shield Christians when Al-Shabaab attacks bus in Kenya

(CNN) Their M.O. is a tried and terrifying one: Launch a raid, single out Christians, and then spray them with bullets.

But when Al-Shabaab militants ambushed a bus Monday, things didn't go according to plan.

A group of Kenyan Muslims shielded the Christian passengers and told the attackers they were prepared to die together.

The Muslim passengers, who were mostly women, told the Islamic militants to kill them all or leave them alone, witnesses said.

The bus was headed to the city of Mandera, near the border with Somalia and Ethiopia.

The journey is such a security risk that most buses travel with a police escort.

In this case, however, the police car broke down and the bus continued on its journey, Joseph Nkaissery, Kenya's interior cabinet secretary, said.

A few hours later, the militants attacked.

In the Monday attack, the gunmen ordered Muslim passengers to come out of the bus and separate themselves from the Christians.

There were more than 100 passengers on board.

The Muslim passengers refused.

They gave the Christian women their hijabs and helped others hide behind bags in the bus, passenger Abdiqafar Teno told CNN.

"They told them, 'If you want to kill us, then kill us. There are no Christians here," he said.

A Christian man who tried to run away was captured and shot dead, Teno said. The driver of a truck, which was trailing the bus, was also killed.

The gunmen left, but warned they would return.

Nkaissery, the interior cabinet secretary, told reporters security forces were in "hot pursuit of the criminals."

Then he commended the actions of the Muslim passengers.

"We are all Kenyans, we are not separated by religion," he said. "We are one people as a nation. And this is a very good message from my brothers and sisters from the Muslim community."
Click to expand...
 
N

NoblesseOblige

Banned
Link isn't working, but I assume the quoted covers most of it. What a terrifying scenario to have to be put into, and those who stood up to the militants are commendable Muslims and humans.

Edit: Now Link is working.
 
K

Kinitari

Black Canada Mafia
Azih said:
People who take shits on 'Islam' lump the people in the bus with the murderers outside.
Click to expand...
No. As much as you want to protect Islam, it's not how it works. These people, and these people alone should be commended for their actions.
 
A

Azih

Member
gruenel said:
No. People who take shits on Muslims do.
Click to expand...

Kinitari said:
No. As much as you want to protect Islam, it's not how it works. These people, and these people alone should be commended for their actions.
Click to expand...

I have no interest in protecting 'Islam'. My interest is in people recognizing that the faith of the people inside the bus is not nearly the same as the faith of the people outside the bus. That much should be obvious but it's lost when people go on about the contents of 'Islam' generically. And it's lost when you and gruenel insist that you can bash the faith of 1.3+ billion. It's reductive, it's over simplified, and it conflates things that should not be conflated.

gruenel. That is a nonsense dodge. How the hell do you resolve the stance that "Oh Muslims are fine, it's just everything they believe and think that's the problem". If someone believes 'Islam' means killing Christians than how does that not reflect on people who follow the faith?
 
S

Stinkles

Clothed, sober, cooperative
This is one of the things that annoys me about the "Islam needs to reform" movements. I agree that ALL religions need to reform in a very broad sense and I find literalism and fundamentalism deeply troubling, but that's true of ALL religions. And our country has plenty of domestic horrors in that regard - Warren Jeffs, Jim Jones, Waco, the lists go on and on and on and have taken more American lives than Islamic Terrorists have.

This story reminds us that movements can be positive as well as negative. Islam doesn't need to reform, it just needs to act on its better principles, as it mostly does. Positive movements also need to happen in the worst places and this demonstrates perfectly well that they can, and that these faiths can and do live in peace and harmony when they're not being stirred up by shitbags.
 
E

ElBoxyBrown

Banned
What y'all didn't know was them Muslims were secretly trying to convert the Christians so they can become terrorist themselves. THEY WERE SLEEPER AGENTS SHEEPLE! IT WAS ALL A RUSE! /s

Brave people.
 
Clinton514

Clinton514

Member
This is the type of thing that happens in movies. Awesome. Shame a couple lives were lost. People loving people is as it should be. Regardless of what they believe.
 
T

Toxi

Banned
Good to see national solidarity superseding religious boundaries.

In a world with so much religious violence, we need a feel-good story. It's too bad that even with the actions of the passengers, two people still died in this attack. :(
 
E

EGM1966

Member
Always welcome to chalk up one for the good people of the planet.

Very brave too, shielding others when you actually do have the option to walk away unscathed yourself.
 
K

Kinitari

Black Canada Mafia
Azih said:
I have no interest in protecting 'Islam'. My interest is in people recognizing that the faith of the people inside the bus is not nearly the same as the faith of the people outside the bus. That much should be obvious but it's lost when people go on about the contents of 'Islam' generically. And it's lost when you and gruenel insist that you can bash the faith of 1.3+ billion. It's reductive, it's over simplified, and it conflates things that should not be conflated.

gruenel. That is a nonsense dodge. How the hell do you resolve the stance that "Oh Muslims are fine, it's just everything they believe and think that's the problem". If someone believes 'Islam' means killing Christians than how does that not reflect on people who follow the faith?
Click to expand...
I really don't want to get into why Islam is a bad religion and the Quran is a bad book in this thread, where I feel like we should be celebrating something insanely brave, but you absolutely are piggybacking on this event to make your "Islam is different to different people and thus criticizing Islam/the Quran is a generalization" point.

Islam, as a whole is something we can criticize, just like any other religion, as a whole, is something we can criticize. Especially when there are explicitly terrible things in the Quran that there is no way around. We can have this conversation, but let's have it somewhere else.
 
R

RustyNails

Member
Stinkles said:
This is one of the things that annoys me about the "Islam needs to reform" movements. I agree that ALL religions need to reform in a very broad sense and I find literalism and fundamentalism deeply troubling, but that's true of ALL religions. And our country has plenty of domestic horrors in that regard - Warren Jeffs, Jim Jones, Waco, the lists go on and on and on and have taken more American lives than Islamic Terrorists have.

This story reminds us that movements can be positive as well as negative. Islam doesn't need to reform, it just needs to act on its better principles, as it mostly does. Positive movements also need to happen in the worst places and this demonstrates perfectly well that they can, and that these faiths can and do live in peace and harmony when they're not being stirred up by shitbags.
Click to expand...
We finally see eye on this issue. Also, see PBS's look at the first Muslim Liberal Arts college in America: http://www.pbs.org/wnet/religionandethics/2015/12/18/december-18-2015-zaytuna-college/28352/
 
T

Toxi

Banned
I feel ordinary people, when given the choice, are inherently good-natured and will try to protect their friends and neighbors. That's why the worst kind of propaganda is that which tries to establish people as "the other", because it removes that responsibility we feel towards each other.

This isn't to discount the bravery of the people on this bus, but to admire it, for it is an example of humanity putting its best foot forward.
 
M

Messofanego

Banned
Kinitari said:
I really don't want to get into why Islam is a bad religion and the Quran is a bad book in this thread, where I feel like we should be celebrating something insanely brave, but you absolutely are piggybacking on this event to make your "Islam is different to different people and thus criticizing Islam/the Quran is a generalization" point.

Islam, as a whole is something we can criticize, just like any other religion, as a whole, is something we can criticize. Especially when there are explicitly terrible things in the Quran that there is no way around. We can have this conversation, but let's have it somewhere else.
Click to expand...
Azih's point flew over your head.

His point isn't that Islam should be devoid of criticism but that different people follow it differently and use it to their own evil ends. Most of the terrorists don't even know the religious texts properly or make up lies to benefit their hatred and to most people who follow the news, it's the misrepresentation that becomes famous to the point of people knowing about Muslims being only like that or believing in those things like killing anyone who isn't them (gays, Christians, atheists, etc). This story is about showing the difference.
 
M

m0dus

Banned
Kinitari said:
No. As much as you want to protect Islam, it's not how it works. These people, and these people alone should be commended for their actions.
Click to expand...

In protecting the Christians, these peoples' actions were perfectly aligned with the most noble tenets of their faith. Had they died, they would have been considered martyrs. 9As opposed to misguided dipshits that strap bombs to their chests and blow up innocents.) They should also be commended for the selflessness of their actions. So, it's a win-win.
 
M

Maleficence

Member
m0dus said:
In protecting the Christians, these peoples' actions were perfectly aligned with the tenets of their faith. Had they died, they would have been considered martyrs. As opposed to misguided dipshits that strap bombs to their chests and blow up innocents. They should also be commended for the selflessness of their actions. So, it's a win-win.
Click to expand...

The misguided dipshits also believe their actions are perfectly aligned with the tenets of their faith.

That's what happens when you rely on "faith" and interpretation of ancient scripture to live your life.
 
A

Azih

Member
Kinitari said:
We can have this conversation, but let's have it somewhere else.
Click to expand...
My point in this conversation is that there is a lot of commentary that has the effect of generalizing peoples to the point that the brave and noble people in the bus in this story are seen as the 'same' as the murderous maniacs outside the bus because 'Islam' and that sort of commentary is terrible. Their faiths are obviously not the same and it is necessary that our conversations reflect rather than obscure it.
 
R

RustyNails

Member
Maleficence said:
The misguided dipshits also believe their actions are perfectly aligned with the tenets of their faith.

That's what happens when you rely on "faith" and interpretation of ancient scripture to live your life.
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They are called misguided for a reason. Would you consider the ones that saved the Christians misguided as well?
 
M

m0dus

Banned
Maleficence said:
The misguided dipshits also believe their actions are perfectly aligned with the tenets of their faith.

That's what happens when you rely on "faith" and interpretation of ancient scripture to live your life.
Click to expand...

Edgy!
Tell me what else you read on the quad freshmen year that totally opened your eyes.

But seriously - this thread is not a soapbox for you to shit on religion.
 
T

theignoramus

Member
Muslims have probably the most resolute followers of any major religion. This incident happened to be a positive manifestation of that characteristic.
So I applaud it.
 
O

ObiDin

Member
I get that we're all happy that these people shielded their fellow countrymen/women from death, but I feel like we're forgetting this line:

A Christian man who tried to run away was captured and shot dead, Teno said. The driver of a truck, which was trailing the bus, was also killed.
Click to expand...
 
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