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LeBron James: Jordan Gets Too Much Credit For 6 Rings

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LeBron isn't saying Jordan wasn't unreal...just that others on the bulls deserve credit, which is true. Not sure why he had to say it, but that part of what he said is not wrong.
 
Walter White said:
If prime MJ had those guys in the same shitty Eastern Conference that LeBron played in? Probably a trip to the finals. He'd only really have to one good team to get there. The east was pretty weak when Lebron carried those bums. I'm sure MJ could have done the same.
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While it's certainly possible, I wouldn't make any assumptions. I suppose it's impossible to, anyway. It's all just conjecture and "what if" talk. I just don't know if any one player has been so directly tied to number of wins as LBJ was to Cleveland. He took one completely bum team to the Finals and took another completely hobbled CLE team almost to a Chip.

He should get more credit than he's gotten, when you really look at it. If a team can only win 19 games without you, they were bums. The same roster that won 61 games with you at the helm could only manage 19 without you. Think about that.

HateGames said:
curry better than both anyway so really fukin cares about battle for no.2
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Better at shooting 3's, yes he is. Better Finals player? Has Curry even shown up in an NBA Finals yet? He hasn't been the best player on the Warriors team in either appearance.
 
Im ready for the Lebron defense bitch force to cry when Warriors dog them this year.

not fair not fair....

maybe he will go to Boston after and try to start another faction. Lord knows he will never step foot in the west.
 
I think people use the fact that Jordan is a horrible person irl to try and diminish his achievements.

Don't get me wrong, he's a complete dick (lots of stuff out there to support it) but in his prime Jordan was one of the greatest of all time. He played in an era of legends and was easily the best among them.
 
Lebron is right. MJ does get too much credit in relation to his teammates who also were a large part of the Bulls. MJ was their best player and their identity but that largely isn't the point. MJ had a fantastic supporting cast and when the discussion of "rings" comes up everyone just forgets that MJ played with an extremely well rounded team with Hall of Famers.

MJ is still the best ever but he didn't win 6 rings single handedly. When he didn't have the supporting cast they got smacked around by the Pistons.
 
Phased said:
I think people use the fact that Jordan is a horrible person irl to try and diminish his achievements.

Don't get me wrong, he's a complete dick (lots of stuff out there to support it) but in his prime Jordan was one of the greatest of all time. He played in an era of legends and was easily the best among them.
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But who is diminishing MJ's achievements? It's a straw man really, unless you're arguing with GAF's trolls.

Dude Abides said:
But Jordan beat Malone, Stockton, Barkley, Drexler, and Magic, while Lebron's signature win came against Charmin Curry.
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How history gets revised. Warriors win and Curry is a top 10 NBA all-time great, etc etc. He loses and now he was simply "Charmin" soft. Feast or famine, I guess.
 
RBelong2Us said:
Im ready for the Lebron defense bitch force to cry when Warriors dog them this year.

not fair not fair....

maybe he will go to Boston after and try to start another faction. Lord knows he will never step foot in the west.
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Did Bam Bam change his username or something?
 
I don’t think MJ ever had a Game 7 in the Finals. And people say ‘Oh, well he was able to close it out early’ and they act like he just did it all on his own. They forget about the shot by Paxson on the left wing.

You want to know the crazy thing? In that particular game in Phoenix, MJ didn’t even have the ball in his hands. Pippen brought the ball up, Barkley went for the steal, Pippen threw it down to Horace Grant and that got the defense (out of place) because Barkley went for the gamble. They rotated to Horace Grant, and Horace Grant threw it to Paxson. MJ didn’t have nothing to do with that play.”
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Hes right. But people will take it out of context.lol championships are won by teams. Greatest players still need role players. But the great players will help take a team to a big win they need and step up and put their teams into a position to win.
 
FStop7 said:
I disagree with this because Lebron is making it sound like these things exist in isolation. The reason the Bulls were able to collapse defenses even when MJ was not actively a part of the play is because he was a huge threat merely by being on the court. Teams would double and triple team him which in turn freed up his teammates and let them create.

And Lebron knows this full well because he's the same kind of player. His opponents plan their defensive game around shutting him down but it's at the cost of opening things up for his teammates.



And if we want to talk about game 7, then let's talk about the fact it was Kyrie Irving who hit that huge 3 pointer. Yeah, Lebron's chase down block was epic but it was JR Smith who forced Iguodala into that awkward layup attempt and it was Kyrie who put the lights out. That was one of the most clutch shots I've ever seen.
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Its one shot, 3pts. Lebron lead everybody in damn near every category all Finals long. If you single one guy out responsible for the championship then there's no question who it was.
 
rambis said:
Its one shot, 3pts. Lebron lead everybody in damn near every category all Finals long. If you single one guy out responsible for the championship then there's no question who it was.
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Indeed. I didn't realize there were people still attempting to dismiss LeBron's body of work in the 2016 Finals. lmao. It will probably go unequaled in our lifetimes unless he does it again because he's pretty much the only player I've ever seen that could do it.
 
phanphare said:
lebron just cemented his legacy this past year in the finals but he seems to want to piss all over it with all this jordan talk in the off season

just shut up and play basketball dude. feel like espn is kicking down some cash to him to create something to talk about and spur views/clicks/etc.
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Yup.

It's The Decision all over again, just a bad, bad, dumb idea all over, the results of which he shoulda seen coming a mile away.
 
Dreams-Visions said:
Indeed. I didn't realize there were people still attempting to dismiss LeBron's body of work in the 2016 Finals. lmao. It will probably go unequaled in our lifetimes unless he does it again.
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They did it last year, of course they'll try and do it again this year.

SatelliteOfLove said:
Yup.

It's The Decision all over again, just a bad, bad, dumb idea all over, the results of which he shoulda seen coming a mile away.
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Oh please, as if Jordan is some sacred cow where even daring to mention his name as anything but the greatest in everything is tantamount to sacrilege.
 
I mean of course other players contributed significantly to the six rings. It's a team game. But if LeBron is saying this to try and compare himself more favorably to Jordan it's pretty dumb. He doesn't remember clanging a wide open three and being bailed out by a Bosh rebound and Allen shot? Or Kyrie hitting a huge three and Kevin Love actually being able to play defence for the first time in his life? Or the very fact that LeBron had to leave his own team to join with two other superstars so he could get his first rings?

I'm not even a LeBron hater, I generally like the guy. But that was a dumb interview.
 
Gorillaz said:
Steph is 2 for 2 in disappearing in the finals
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I'll enjoy all the articles about how he got bailed out by Durant when he goes 3 for 3 next season but they win it all anyway.

Oh wait no that won't happen because the media has an irrational love affair with Curry, forget I said anything.
 
pgtl_10 said:
He had Detroit, Ewing, Shaq, and Reggie Miller in his conference.
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Jordan only played Shaq and Reggie once in the playoffs. The Magic beat the Bulls in '95 (two months after Jordan's first comeback). The Bulls beat the Pacers in '99 (in the most crushing defeat I've ever felt as a Pacers fan). Just pointing out some facts. I don't think Reggie/Shaq had much impact on Jordan's championship rings.
 
Gotdatmoney said:
Steph is a regular season player at this point. Dude looks utter trash in the playoffs against good teams.
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Wat. Steph has had some insane playoff series the last two years.

Man on the real basketball talk on the internet is maddening. Constant off the cuff craziness.
 
Gotdatmoney said:
Lebron is right. MJ does get too much credit in relation to his teammates who also were a large part of the Bulls. MJ was their best player and their identity but that largely isn't the point. MJ had a fantastic supporting cast and when the discussion of "rings" comes up everyone just forgets that MJ played with an extremely well rounded team with Hall of Famers.

MJ is still the best ever but he didn't win 6 rings single handedly. When he didn't have the supporting cast they got smacked around by the Pistons.
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This same logic can be directed towards LeBron.
 
Gigglepoo said:
Jordan only played Shaq and Reggie once in the playoffs. The Magic beat the Bulls in '95 (two months after Jordan's first comeback). The Bulls beat the Pacers in '99 (in the most crushing defeat I've ever felt as a Pacers fan). Just pointing out some facts. I don't think Reggie/Shaq had much impact on Jordan's championship rings.
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Doesn't matter. LeBron's best was the Celtics and a Pistons team regards as the starless team in history.
 
Dreams-Visions said:
Let's be fair, though. Michael didn't get two 3-peats with a roster that could have been mistaken for the fuckin Denver Nuggets either.

Note: The year MJ temporarially retired from The Bulls, Chicago went 55-27 and made it to the Easter Semis before falling to Ewing's Knicks. The year before with MJ, the Bulls went 57-25.

Clearly Chicago was a formidable team even without MJ (though not a championship team anymore).

The year LeBron left the Cavs, Cleveland went 19-63. The year before with LBJ and essentially the exact same roster, they went 61-21. Has any one player ever been almost solely attributable for that many wins for a team ever?

Again, if we're going to talk about LBJ's legacy, one has to evaluate the talent he was actually working with. MJ gets the credit he deserves, but his running mates were a playoff team with or without him. Can't say the same about any of LBJ's Cleveland teams in his first campaign with CLE. I think that should always be kept in perspective.
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First, I never said the Bulls weren't good without Jordan. They had proven to be a playoff caliber team even after that team completely retired. My point was Jordan is the reason they proved to be THAT consistently successful during their championship runs. It's one thing to make playoffs, it's another thing to not let the pressure get to you and that was something Jordan always brought to the team, and those teams were no where near as stacked (on paper) as the Heat were. They never suffered from a too many cooks in the kitchen team mentality.

I am also not discounting HOW GOOD Lebron was for Cleveland (and clearly still is), but you just go and discount Jordan's Wins because you don't have as many. I would argue that joining the Heat HURT his chances at more glory BECAUSE you had to many ball hogs. But that's what happens when you go where the money is.
 
Dude Abides said:
I never claimed Curry was top 10 so I'm not doing any revising. Fact is Curry wilted when it mattered most.
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eh to be fair the dude was pretty much not there all playoffs.

its not like it just happened. besides a game or two he just wasnt the same after that knee injury.
 
Forsaken82 said:
Except even that isn't the whole truth.

Yeah, Jordan had awesome teammates during that Era, but the fact remains, the bulls won BECAUSE of Jordan. Jordan was both a leader and motivator. That is why They won while he was in his prime, failed when he "retired" and Won again when he returned. Lebron couldn't duplicate that success with his incredibly stacked Heat team.

If he wants to back up his claims that Jordan gets too much credit, I want to see him do with Cleveland what Jordan did with Chicago.

Win 3 in a row with Cleveland
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The bulls didn't exactly 'fail', they were still reasonably competitive in 94 and 95, it certainly wasn't a post LeBron Cavs situation. This is more accurate to how I feel though:


Dreams-Visions said:
I'd like to listen to the interview, but I can't spare 1.5 hours. If anyone listens to it, please post the cliff notes.

In my opinion, MJ gets the right amount of credit. His teammates should get more than they have gotten historically, but MJ was godlike in those Finals games. To my best recollection, he was consistent excellence. Even when stricken with the flu, he still put up amazing numbers in a much more physical league. Everyone did their jobs with Scottie and Rodman in particular doing more than their jobs, but MJ was the unquestioned leader and tip of the spear every night.

That said, I'd also say that LeBron gets too much flack for the rings he failed to win. With the exception of his Miami years, he took bad teams to the Finals because he was just that good. In his first Cavaliers NBA Finals appearance, his best teammates were Eric Snow (the same Snow that was Starting PG for most of Iverson's career, long retired) , has-been Larry Hughes, Drew Gooden, Delonte West, an aged Zedryunas Illgaskus, and Jamario Moon (not all at the same time). In the years that would follow in Cleveland, his best teammate was Mo Williams, who while a serviceable player would never be mistaken as an all-star talent. In his second NBA Finals appearance with Cleveland, he took the near record-setting Golden State Warriors to 6 games without Kevin Love OR Kyrie Irving. He did it with Anderson Varejao and Matthew Dellavadova as his best 2 teammates.

Think about that shit for awhile. Could MJ have led Drew Gooden, Jamario Moon, Eric Snow, Daniel Gibson, Delonte West and Larry Huges to NBA Championship rings? How about even to the Finals? Let's just say I'm glad we never have to find out...because it would have been blemishes on MJ's illustrious career.

Now his losses in Miami are different. He had an assemblage of all-stars and former all-stars on his team those years and sometimes they just got outplayed by better teams (Spurs). Other series' he just didn't have the confidence to play well (Mavericks).

TLDR: MJ deserves the credit he gets; it's his teammates that should also be talked about more. LBJ gets the credit he deserves, but also gets too much salt for his Finals losses given the under-talented squads he willed to the Finals. It's almost as if it would have been better in the eyes of some if he never made it to the Finals in the years they lost in the Finals, which is absurd.



lol Ray Allen. People seem to remember his shot in Miami, but not the disappearing act he pulled in the Celtics Finals against the Lakers, mailing in the last 2 or 3 games and costing Boston another Chip.
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^^ The big issue is how much credit he gets relative to his teammates, specifically Pippen. Jordan without Pippen is one of those guys that puts up a lot of numbers and maybe wins a championship or two when the balls bounce just the right way for his team in a given year. Jordan with Pippen is the guy who completely dominates the league for the better part of a decade. Jordan gets 95% of the credit because his flashy playstyle and outgoing personality, while in reality it's much closer to 60/40.

I also think there is a difference between being great and being able to single handedly carry a team or being impossible to replace. LeBron has carried some absolutely garbage teams deep into the playoffs because of his versatility, but that doesn't mean he'd be my pick if I absolutely had to win a particular game.
 
pgtl_10 said:
Doesn't matter. LeBron's best was the Celtics and a Pistons team regards as the starless team in history.
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I don't understand why Jordan only going against Reggie and Shaq once each doesn't matter. What impact did it have for Jordan to play in the same conference as Reggie and Shaq?
 
Lebron talking out his ass. Clearly feeling himself right now, to the point that he forgot he isn't, and never will be, the same class of player that Michael Jordan was.
 
The KG/Pierce/Allen Celtics teams were probably better than every non-Bulls East team in the 90s.

SenjutsuSage said:
Lebron talking out his ass. Clearly feeling himself right now, to the point that he forgot he isn't, and never will be, the same class of player that Michael Jordan was.
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He's arguably the second greatest player of all time. Unless Jordan is just that far above everyone else in your eyes that he deserves his own tier, you're completely wrong.
 
jman2050 said:
The KG/Pierce/Allen Celtics teams were probably better than every non-Bulls East team in the 90s.
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By a long shot. They actually won a title and were extremely close for two others. The best East teams fizzled out by the time the 90s rolled around. The Knicks, Pacers, and Magic were good but there's a reason none of them won a title. (and it's not just because Jordan was there).

Of course, the rest of the East has been miserable during LeBron's time in the league.
 
Gigglepoo said:
By a long shot. They actually won a title and were extremely close for two others. The best East teams fizzled out by the time the 90s rolled around. The Knicks, Pacers, and Magic were good but there's a reason none of them won a title. (and it's not just because Jordan was there).
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I think the Magic were good enough to win deservedly in 95. Just no accounting for Hakeem and Nick Anderson.
 
jman2050 said:
I think the Magic were good enough to win deservedly in 95. Just no accounting for Hakeem and Nick Anderson.
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They got swept, though. That wasn't a fluke. I could see arguing the '98 Pacers were a legit title contender (seeing as they lost in seven to the eventual champions) but the Magic were too young and Hakeem was too good for that series to ever come out Orlando's way.

Dysun said:
I like Lebron but it must be hard to know you can be that good and never be the best
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The only reason LeBron can't be the best is because some people have raised Jordan to a mythical level. When you consider both people as men, LeBron is every bit as dominant (and maybe even more so) than Jordan was. I think we underestimate just how incredible LeBron has been.
 
jordan and his image are so massive and well-known that everyone is going to treat him as a god

mj has always gotten way too much credit even though he deserves a lot
 
pgtl_10 said:
He singled out Jordan for one shot in the quote.
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It was part of a much larger point. People say "Jordan never needed game 7" to knock Lebron and give him shit for the Ray Allen/Kyrie shot but its never mentioned how the Bulls closed out one Finals on a play where he wasnt involved.

Nobody however is saying, "but without paxson the Bulls wouldnt have won".

See the difference?
 
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