I don't believe you ever watched Scottie Pippen play. He played insane the year Jordan was out. He was a defensive mastermind and an athletic freak that put many a men on posters. Ball handling and passing off the chart. On ball defense, even in the post, was elite. Contemporaries say he was a nightmare to play against. If he was on another team, he'd be one of Jordan's great rivals.
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LeBron James: Jordan Gets Too Much Credit For 6 Rings
- Thread starter pgtl_10
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I don't believe you ever watched Scottie Pippen play. He played insane the year Jordan was out. He was a defensive mastermind and an athletic freak that put many a men on posters. Ball handling and passing off the chart. On ball defense, even in the post, was elite. Contemporaries say he was a nightmare to play against. If he was on another team, he'd be one of Jordan's great rivals.
I sort of agree with this.
Another interesting aspect when it comes to these kind of discussions is how much the sport and game has evolved since the player we are talking about did what he did.
For example in soccer/football alot of people if not the majority of people would consider Pelé to be the greatest football player ever to played the game. I am absolutely not disagreeing with this, but i think its fair to bring these kind of questions to the equation and discussion.
- Would Pelé dominate in todays football?
- How much smarter, tactical, and better trained has the average football player become today compared to 20-30 years ago?
- Would Pelé be able to do the things that Messi/Ronaldo have been able to achieve and do?
To clarify/avoid hate and drama:
I think Jordan absolutely is one of if not the greatest basketball player ever, but at the same time i think Lebron is one hell of a player. There is not/havent been a single player during Lebrons time who can do all the things he can do.
- Guard the MVP? - check
- Let your ego aside and let other teammates shine - check
- Step up and dominate when its really needed - check
I also think Lebrons IQ and intelligence is in the absolute top.
Teammates have said previously that he understands the game like very few players do, almost on a championship-coach-level.
Just my two cents
ITT: People who have never actually watched an NBA game before 2010
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6_VPFiHOf4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jL84Sqgum0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7vKVIwfCj4
Jack The Nipper
Banned
if jordan was lebron and went to any team with any super players he wanted as well as not retiring early twice.
just maybe jordan easily has 10 rings lebron
you go ahead and play year after year chasing his 6
And stop acting like jordan's team is that good, he had pippen but everyone else was role players and didn't win with any other teams that often.
Rodamn was a great roleplayer but you aint going to win with just rodman and other role players for sure.
just maybe jordan easily has 10 rings lebron
you go ahead and play year after year chasing his 6
And stop acting like jordan's team is that good, he had pippen but everyone else was role players and didn't win with any other teams that often.
Rodamn was a great roleplayer but you aint going to win with just rodman and other role players for sure.
Did MJ ever call out Larry Bird for having McHale and Parish to help him win his titles? DId MJ ever call out Magic for having Kareem and Worthy to help him win his titles?
NO.
He did all his talking on the court. He didn't try to lessen other players legacies to boost his own. He made his legacy by dominating on the court where it matters.
NO.
He did all his talking on the court. He didn't try to lessen other players legacies to boost his own. He made his legacy by dominating on the court where it matters.
hahahahaha
AlteredForms
Banned
I'm laughing out loud at the manner in which this statement is presented. Ghetto and unabashed, but not total bullshit. Me likes.
In that series Mourning and Peyton didnt really do anything tho. Walker, Williams n Posey...eh...
Like I said before...for someone thats supposed to be such a student of past games...LeBron dropped the ball on this one.
They did provide solid contribution one way or another. It was a Wade and Shaq show all throughout anyway, with Wade going ham in the finals. Besides, Pat Riley will never come back to coaching if he thought that Heat team won't have a good chance of adding another ring to his fingers.
Ninja Scooter
Member
I take it the 93 in your name refers to the year you are born because that's the only explanation for the blatant ignorance in your posts. If you want to use fame as a metric, Pippe was easily one of the most popular and recognizable players of his era. If you are using his on-court ability, he was one of the greatest 2 way players of all time (Paul George or Kawaii Leonard, both modern superstars, are probably better comps than Klay), the 2nd best player on 6 championship teams. When Jordan retired the first time he took that same squad, minus their best player, and led them to 55 wins while playing like an MVP candidate (I believe he finished 2nd to Hakeem that year) and if not for a blown call he probably would have taken them to the ECF or Finals. My every metric he was a superstar. Do some research next time.
You know there's more to being a superstar than skill set?
TheOfficeMut
Unconfirmed Member
Dreams-Visions
Member
was this a serious fucking question?
thread is confirming to me that the rest of the Bulls have been ROBBED of proper credit for those rings.
Holy shit it was a serious fucking question. Wow.
My head is hurting fam. WOW @ this even having to be stated.
Ephemeris
Member
looks and personality ?
Mighty Chin
Banned
Preach
pffffffffffft
He's one of the best NBA defenders of all time and averaged 17.7 / 6.7 / 5.3 on the bulls. In what universe is Pip not one of the elite of all time, let alone a superstar?
He was popular and recognizable just as Klay is popular and recognizable playing alongside Curry. He definitely wasn't top 5 in popularity and there's a good chance he wasn't even top 10. At the most, you're arguing for one season.
George and Leonard I wouldn't consider superstars, but that's a different discussion.
I didn't downplay Pippen in talent, I said strictly popularity, which is the deciding factor in being an All-Star to a Superstar.
Anyone who says this doesn't matter is lying to themselves.
What superstar averages 17 in today's NBA? Let's be serious here.
You play with the goat who typically averaged 30 for the majority of your career and average more than 17 or 20. Pip was a superstar
Ninja Scooter
Member
Spoiler alert: Klay Thompson is a superstar, as is Draymond Green. the problem seems to be that your definition of a "superstar" isn't consistent with reality. These guys would've have shoe deals and endorsement deals and be on the covers of video games if they weren't superstars.
First, his numbers are low because he did not average many points his first few seasons. He had a huge jump in on court presence around the time the Bulls started winning championships. Secondly, yes he is more than his on court skills, he put all of those skills into action as one of he most well rounded players in NBA history. Its really apparent you haven't seen Pippen play.
You're conveniently leaving out a) the 7 boards and 5 assists a game and b) the fact that he had Jordan on his team and still managed to get 18 points a game.
He's a member of the NBA Top 50 Players of all time, Simmons has him as the 24th best player ever, etc.
The deciding factor that you consider to be subjective...you're the only person here who doesn't consider him a superstar. Maybe you're wrong?
He was voted to the all time 50 greatest players for a reason. He was put on the dream team for the same reason.
LyleLanley
Banned
If Pippen was a superstar how come he retired? Checkmate idiots.
DietRob
i've been begging for over 5 years.
LeBron was on The Daily Show last night and one thing he doesn't get enough credit for being a great human being. Aside from basketball he's a guy that truly cares about strengthening his community and does more than throw money at charities.
I cut my teeth on 90's basketball so I love Jordan but Lebron has him beat on 'better human being' by a mile.
Watch the interview and tell me LeBron is not a good dude. What has Jordan done for anyone besides himself?
http://www.cc.com/video-clips/olgyf...h-exclusive---lebron-james-extended-interview
I cut my teeth on 90's basketball so I love Jordan but Lebron has him beat on 'better human being' by a mile.
Watch the interview and tell me LeBron is not a good dude. What has Jordan done for anyone besides himself?
http://www.cc.com/video-clips/olgyf...h-exclusive---lebron-james-extended-interview
Seriously, anyone on that dreamteam not named Christian Laettner was a superstar.
(Shaq was robbed!)
Pippen retired only once, how many times did MJ retire? At least 3, maybe more in private.
Lebron may be better in the community but he is absolutely not a class act on and off the court like Jordang.
Anyonw can get a shoe deal lol. Klay is signed to fucking Anta. We'll just agree to disagree.
Again, there is more to being a superstar than just pure talent.
What superstar averages 18 in today's game?
Like minded opinions don't automatically make it right.
Yeah, playing alongside Jordan.
I should probably rephrase my statement as he's an undeserving superstar.
you're talking about popularity like it's the only thing that decides superstar status and then you're ignoring his popularity in this thread.
BadAss2961
Member
Yup.
LeBron's too desperate to be considered the GOAT. So desperate that he actually makes arguments for his own legacy. "Chasing the ghost," as if Michael Jordan was actually a figment of our imagination. lol
JimJamJones
Member
There's always one.
So true. I mean, MJ never had to get through the Toronto Raptors to reach the Finals. He was on easy street.
Netherscourge
Banned
And LeBron wonders why nobody likes him.
lmao unbelievable
MrPressStart
Member
hahaha.... there was nothing weaker about the NBA in the late 80's and 90's compared to today. It was a much more physical game then. The talent was arguably better and their were a bunch of good teams as opposed to just 4.
Netherscourge
Banned
LeFLOP running his mouth again?
Jordan didn't have to make a fool out of himself to get to the foul line.
Jordan didn't have to make a fool out of himself to get to the foul line.
Hey man, I'm ducking out of this convo now. Usually when someone responds to your point, you don't make the same exact argument (word for word, minus the number switch) again. Just giving you advice if you're ever having discussions in the future.
DasPenguin
Member
Pippen was a wonderful player who fit perfectly next to Jordan, but if you think Pippen was a franchise player then you are out of your mind.
The year Jordan retired Pippen was guiding a 3-time champion who also got Kukoc that year. The year after that with some aging players and with Grant leaving, Pippen guided the Bulls to a .500 record and asked for a trade. At that moment Jordan returned. And let's not forget what Pippen did (or didn't do) in Houston. He was the third best player in a team that had two over the hill franchise players on the roster.
Fantastic player, great defender, who was inconsistent in the offensive end and sometimes disappeared in big playoff games.
BlazinSkatinAxel
Member
When he came back, Bogut was injured.
The guy who played 10 minutes in game 4 before he got hurt in game 5? Fuck outta here
dragonyeuw
Member
Lebron should worry about being above 50% finals wins before talking about MJ.
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