family_guy
Member
Do you want to have a conversation instead of making assumptions about me?
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Let's talk about dating and ghosting culture
- Thread starter family_guy
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Do you want to have a conversation instead of making assumptions about me?
There's a lot of people who don't know common decency in 2017.
Look I'm sorry, but yes it's happened to me and I find it to just be rude. If the guy or girl is a "psycho" fine, but if that's the problem, they're gonna act like that whether you tell them straight up or not. Figure out a way to tell them, and if it proves to be a problem, fine, ghost them, but not saying anything is just such a waste of everyone's time.
Look I'm sorry, but yes it's happened to me and I find it to just be rude. If the guy or girl is a "psycho" fine, but if that's the problem, they're gonna act like that whether you tell them straight up or not. Figure out a way to tell them, and if it proves to be a problem, fine, ghost them, but not saying anything is just such a waste of everyone's time.
I'm not sure it's patronising when women have literally told me they wish dudes would stop standing in their way while talking, stop making them look up at them to talk in an office room full of chairs, and have directly requested I do the last two examples (bus seat, walking)
Also, every interact-with-the-public job I've had has had similar training, anyway. Don't stand in a doorway when talking to clients/patrons. Sit down for long discussions. Don't stand in between the exit and them. I worked at a library and we had to re-do that training every single year as part of our confrontation avoidance segment. (the other part was how to escape a patron putting us in a headlock or pulling our hair, etc) I'm a big dude (over 6ft), and it's literally no problem to me to 'get' that I look physically imposing to women half my size.
I mean, unless you hilariously think I'm going to randomly suddenly sit down on a sidewalk when a woman comes up and asks me where the Starbucks is.
weemadarthur
Member
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Jest Chillin
Member
When people take being ghosted as disrespect, that means they feel owed respect in the first place.
It's inherently a topic about the perception of being owed. Owed respect. Owed closure. Owed a reason.
Relationships of every nature require something being mutual. If the other person does not share anything mutual or does not desire to act on any mutual nature, real or perceived, then they do not owe the first person anything.
Hell, I'm speaking to you directly through a quote on a discussion board but you do not owe me a response and if you choose not to reply, that's your right as a human being and I should be able to be an adult and move on.
Kind of nice, right?
No. Nobody is talking about anything being owed. When I open a door and a person is behind me entering as well, I do not have to hold it open for them. I do it because it is courteous. It is not about being owed. It is about choosing to do something because you are being aware of how they will feel about it. I don't know where all this is coming from that this is suddenly about what is "owed" it is basic empathy, not paying a debt.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
Police are paid money and given specific legal powers, including the power of life and death.
Not following up on a couple crummy dates is not a life-ruining superpower, there's no responsibility you owe anyone having used the power.
Please note that in the conversation in the OP, after you mansplained to her on another dude's behalf, she ghosted you. How is this not an instructive example of why people do this?
Jest Chillin
Member
Your comparison is inaccurate. This issue is more along the lines of you holding a door open to the person behind you and then being mad that they didn't acknowledge you doing so or thank you for it.
"I called/texted them and they didn't respond." is the key aspect of the objection to ghosting.
Joyful
Member
well said
basically what ive been thinking reading this entire thread and wondering how to articulate it lol
ghosting is rude af
family_guy
Member
I agree completely. Some people in this thread seem to think that I have a chip on my shoulder or something, but I really just want people to be better to each other. No you don't owe anyone anything, but if it's not costing you anything to show some common decency then please do. Don't kill yourself trying to be nice.
First of all, not acknowledging someone holding the door open is rude, but that's not a big deal. The point is, the problem with your analogies is you're comparing an absolute stranger to someone you potentially have an intimate relationship with. There's a huge difference between what you're saying and someone you've hit the sack with.
It's damn common decency, if you had something somewhat personal with somebody and choose to delete them from your life like that, it's rude.
Froyo Love
Banned
If someone didn't hold a door open for you, and you posted online in a thread about it saying that you just couldn't understand why anyone would possibly not hold a door open, and the reasons people give for not holding doors open just don't make any sense, don't they have any empathy for the people who've had doors closed in their face...
...then yeah, you'd be acting like you were owed it. Talking about how people owe it to you to treat you a certain way is a bad look, so it's understandable not to cop to it, but it's the only reasonable way to interpret a lot of the comments in this thread chastising people for breaking off communication with someone.
There is no analogous danger to this custom though.
Messofanego
Banned
family_guy
Member
She didn't ghost me. She didn't want to talk about it anymore so she changed the subject, and I never brought it up with her again. If she had directly said she didn't want to talk about it, my reaction would have been the same. She was the one who brought it up in the first place, and I offered the advice that sometimes being direct actually works.
MegaManTrigger
Banned
Jesus wtf. Have people really devolved to the point of not being able to take no for an answer?
I've been ghosted a couple times. It honestly isn't that big of a deal. I have too many other people I could be talking with to worry about what someone who won't respond to me is thinking about.
I've also ghosted people before after a one night stand. Mostly you do it because you don't think the other person will take it well.
I've also ghosted people before after a one night stand. Mostly you do it because you don't think the other person will take it well.
Jest Chillin
Member
The only difference in what I'm saying and "someone you've hit the sack with" is your personal perception of the relationship dynamics once intimacy is involved.
Not everyone in the world is going to have your particular view of intimacy and what that represents. These are all arbitrary lines in the sand whose positions vary from person to person. This is an unavoidable aspect of human nature. Some people won't have sex until marriage and even then only do so with the intent of procreation. Others view it as impersonal as a hand shake.
And if you find that you've done something that you consider to be personal enough to take offense over when they ghost, why is on the other person and not your own judgement? Afterall, it's your standards that are causing the offense to be taken. Not theirs.
Puck Beaverton
Banned
JrBaconCheeseburger
Member
Ghosting
Stupid term
perfectchaos007
Member
I'm in sales so I get ghosted all the time. When someone tells me no, I say "okay thank you" and I wont bother them again. If they don't respond, I'll call, email, leave messages, and text them until I get a response. I can take yes for an answer, I can take no for an answer, but I can't take "no answer" for an answer. I'm doing my part to end the ghosting culture
Thats literally what this thread is about. Wether on not OPs friend owed an undefined random date a "i dont want to see you again call"
Megawarrior
Member
I didn't read the whole thread but guys also do it as well. Had it happen a couple of times. It sucks.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
Just skipped to the end and somehow black people and crime came up in a whiny thread about getting ghosted
We need better schools
We need better schools
See no offense, but exactly what you're saying is the problem.
The thing is you're not considering the other person. At all. It's not a matter of "oh I feel owed" or anything like that, you're not seeing it that the other person might be more sensitive to that. If you sleep with someone and see it as impersonal as a hand shake, that's fine, but be considerate and realize that the other person might not. That's pretty common sense if you ask me, there's absolutely nothing wrong with that, and saying "it's your fault for being sensitive" is what's wrong.
Saying it's the person's fault for being sensitive is "be a man" culture. No. I'm not about that at all.
Messofanego
Banned
Anyone of us who dates, raise your hand if you have NEVER ghosted someone? That you've been always true to your idealist goals of never ghosting and always leave a message that you see it not working out?
I have ghosted at least a handful of times. It's usually after the first date where both of us finally met but maybe the vibes weren't felt, so we just ghost. It's unspoken but understood that ghosting can be a consequence after a date. It's just less time consuming than to explain each time why it won't work out and then not wanting to further explain their "but y tho" query.
I'm a dude so I'm in not as much danger as a girl, hence why I only had to block girls a couple of times as they were getting too persistent and creepy and not taking the hint. It's kind of a lose-lose situation for girls. Ghost but then get constant messages and threats by the guy? Or be honest in not being interested but still getting constant messages and threats by the guy?
Ghosting is just an unwritten social action that happens in dating. If someone hasn't responded to you in a week or a month after your requests to ask what happened, you're being ghosted and you should just move on.
No one is saying ghosting is a good thing, but sometimes it's inevitable and necessary when you're talking to more than one person at a time.
I have ghosted at least a handful of times. It's usually after the first date where both of us finally met but maybe the vibes weren't felt, so we just ghost. It's unspoken but understood that ghosting can be a consequence after a date. It's just less time consuming than to explain each time why it won't work out and then not wanting to further explain their "but y tho" query.
I'm a dude so I'm in not as much danger as a girl, hence why I only had to block girls a couple of times as they were getting too persistent and creepy and not taking the hint. It's kind of a lose-lose situation for girls. Ghost but then get constant messages and threats by the guy? Or be honest in not being interested but still getting constant messages and threats by the guy?
Ghosting is just an unwritten social action that happens in dating. If someone hasn't responded to you in a week or a month after your requests to ask what happened, you're being ghosted and you should just move on.
No one is saying ghosting is a good thing, but sometimes it's inevitable and necessary when you're talking to more than one person at a time.
I'm not really interested in arguing about what makes the perfect example. The point is clear. Nobody is talking about anything being owed. It is a pointless strawman argument. This has always been framed around simply being courteous.
Dash_Riprock
Member
Is there more to this?
Stop. It's simple. Some people feel it is a dick move. Not because they are owed an upfront rejection. They feel it is a dick move because the person doing the ghosting is doing something that can be hurtful in the circumstances laid out by the OP. That's it. It's that simple. No need to infer or interpret such a simple point.
Angelus Errare
Banned
Getting ghost on is not that deep honestly.
The Wheel of Fortune
Member
I was guilty of doing this shit back when I was younger and more insecure/egoist. After much introspection and maturing, I found that it's better to face this sort of stuff head-on.
It's normal to see some of the people you're rejecting react that way, not everyone is the same and no one likes to hear to sort of stuff. That, and it feels bad when you think someone's doing this to you, but you're not really sure lol
It's normal to see some of the people you're rejecting react that way, not everyone is the same and no one likes to hear to sort of stuff. That, and it feels bad when you think someone's doing this to you, but you're not really sure lol
Isn't it an imitator's take on Lionel Mandrake's running gag in his recaps?
It's not real, right?
At what fucking point do you owe someone something ?
You could extend this forever ,and almost breakdown morality itself.
Tal Shiar Agent
Banned
Jest Chillin
Member
I have to disagree with everything you're saying here. On one hand you're saying that it's inconsiderate to think about yourself first but on the other you're saying that all responsibility to think about others is on the other person and not yourself. How is that not a complete contradiction?
It's equally on both people to express what their values are before taking steps to cross their own perceived lines. Their lines aren't your lines, so it's plainly selfish of you to think that everyone else has to ask you what your standards are before they cross a line by your standards, which they don't even know. Meanwhile you haven't expressed that you have any inclination to do the same. Do you not see the inherent problem here?
It's all well and nice to say things or to think that both parties should be completely upfront about their standards and desires and all that but people don't work that way. Even in your own morals you've conspicuously left out that you should do the same that you're asking of others. This isn't an accusation of anything deceptive on your part of our conversation here either. It's just how you naturally framed your argument because for all the ideals you're expressing, your primary concern isn't actually for others. It's for yourself. It's driven by your standards, which you hold more important that someone elses.
And I never stated anything even remotely close to "it's your fault for being sensitive." I said the only person you should hold to your personal standards is yourself because you know your own standards. Other people may have entirely different standards and on top of that have no clue what your standards are.
There's nothing strawman about it. One side frames it as courtesy but that very quickly falls on its face the moment you take offense to it. Courtesy, by nature, is not a requirement. It is not mandatory. It is not owed. And as such, no offense should be taken if someone is discourteous. The entire concept of being upset at a lack of courtesy comes from a difference in perceived station, where one or both parties operate under the ideal that one is lesser than another. Such as a Serf to a Lord or a Child to a Parent.
Prophaniti
Banned
Wtf are you talking about? What point are you even making?
Are you suggesting that if I sleep with someone after a couple dates that I'm obligated to keep seeing them by virtue of the fact we had an orgasm together? That seems incredibly immature. What if I find out they're a racist? Or a heroine junky? Or whatever?
This is high school levels of relationship immaturity.
If you're an adult and you have sex with someone you shouldn't expect it to mean anything unless you've explicitly stated otherwise.
NoblesseOblige
Banned
What a rude term. Do you think ghosts like being associated with more negative things?
It sounds like the only reason you see that as a contradiction is because you're looking for reasons to justify bad manners. Basically you're saying some people just suck, and you have to be equally considerate of their sucky behavior. I can assure you 99% of the time ghosting is someone just taking the easy route.
This isn't some individualistic expectation - it's called common decency for a reason, being a decent person is part of culture around the world and it doesn't need to be explicitly stated. Nobody from anywhere is going to say that ghosting with no explanation is a nice thing to do, there's no basis for that kind of argument.
I mean, assuming the person on the other end is a total psycho I don't exactly get how ignoring then while they blow up your messages is any better.
Speaking as a guy who has had to deal with at least one psycho date in my lifetime. When it showed itself to be a problem after some confrontation I just blocked her number and that was that.
Speaking as a guy who has had to deal with at least one psycho date in my lifetime. When it showed itself to be a problem after some confrontation I just blocked her number and that was that.
Angelus Errare
Banned
You can block messages, you can't block a crazy dude confronting you.
This is the problem. Ghosting is a form of rejection and if somebody is that psycho that would happen anyway. I know because I've seen it happen.
Jest Chillin
Member
I'm not looking to justify bad manners. I'm saying that the expectation of courtesy is just that. An expectation. And that no one has the right to expect courtesy of another person.
Common decency, like common sense, is not common. Manners and what actions constitute them change the world over based on culture and tradition. There is no uniform system of manners that all people everywhere are programed with when they are born.
This isn't about nice or mean no matter how much you want to frame it that way. And I'm not saying "some people just suck." I'm saying, rather straight forward, that your personal standards are not the same as anothers. So while you're certainly able to think that certain actions or lack thereof "suck," to another person that behavior is completely acceptable and normal. So if you have certain standards, it's up to you to express those standards to others and they can make the decision as to whether they're open to respecting those standards or not. Hopefully they would end things before violating those standards or not violate them if they choose to move forward BUT it's in no way ok to expect those people to abide by your standards with no prior knowledge of it as if your personal beliefs are the barometer by which the world operates.
The world doesn't revolve around you or your beliefs. Or me or mine. And we have no right to expect the world to live by our beliefs, our standards. Especially if we've never even bothered to express what those things are. We only have the right to control ourselves. No one else.
Yes, sure,
but what about ghosting on them and pretending they don't exist is actually safer for me as a person? It in no way stops them from approaching me in real life, assuming they had the relevant information and saw it necessary to do so.
I am kind of ghosting on someone and I still feel guilty about it. We went on a couple of dates (she just came over to my place for a few booty calls). She still messages me.
I don't know what to do.
I don't know how to say to her 'I'm not interested', and I don't want to lie and say 'let's just be friends'. I am afraid to hurt this girl. She is really nice, but I'm just not interested.
After she messages me a bunch I'll usually send a short response back and pretend I don't use my phone very much. I guess I'm not ghosting, but I'm keeping an obvious distance that she doesn't seem to get.
I really hope she doesn't read this forum.
I don't know what to do.
I don't know how to say to her 'I'm not interested', and I don't want to lie and say 'let's just be friends'. I am afraid to hurt this girl. She is really nice, but I'm just not interested.
After she messages me a bunch I'll usually send a short response back and pretend I don't use my phone very much. I guess I'm not ghosting, but I'm keeping an obvious distance that she doesn't seem to get.
I really hope she doesn't read this forum.
always crazy bacon
Banned
Just rip the band aid off and tell her your not interested or go full ghost. I don't want to hurt her because she's nice? Show her more respect than that, you'll both be able to move on and this nice girl will find someone else.