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[Dan Yo]

Eh, no.

It's because in the West, there are just less RPGs being made. All the mediocre FPS stories would've been told in an RPG format if role playing games were more popular here. Same for Japan.

Then you're saying FPSs typically have the same amount of focus put on narrative as RPGs do? If that were the case, then you'd think there'd be more WRPGs with no narrative and few dialogue sequences that never exceed 30 seconds.

...Or maybe they're just two separate genres that focus on very different things.

 

[Chairman Yang]

I have to withdraw from my comments on Shin Megami Tensei: Devil Survivor a bit, now that I'm further into the game. The story's turned out a lot more intelligent than I initially gave it credit for, and while some of the dialogue is very plain, one of the translators clearly knows what he's doing and elevates some of it to WRPG levels.

I think it's safe to say that the Shin Megami Tensei games are the best-written JRPGs being made nowadays.

 

[Lyude77]

I have to withdraw from my comments on Shin Megami Tensei: Devil Survivor a bit, now that I'm further into the game. The story's turned out a lot more intelligent than I initially gave it credit for, and while some of the dialogue is very plain, one of the translators clearly knows what he's doing and elevates some of it to WRPG levels.

I think it's safe to say that the Shin Megami Tensei games are the best-written JRPGs being made nowadays.

I was going to post Devil Survivor as one (I think I didn't, but I don't really remember posting here in general), but it had some typos, and I didn't like the writing of the ending I got. It felt empty. I don't really disagree with you though as I was enamored all throughout the middle of the game. The ending I got (serious spoilers):

Spoiler

I chose to become the Messiah. The ending to me basically boiled down to the main character acting like Keisuke all the time and the populace being afraid...it was mildly depressing since the game acted like it was going to be a redemption more than Yehowah being a complete tyrant. Even with Naoya being Cain and trying to mislead the main character, I still felt like I made the wrong choice.

Devil Survivor and Devil Summoner 2 both had a lot of potential. I just felt like Devil Summoner 2 fulfilled it a bit more, using the "spark" idea and the Shinado masks, even if my law ending was similarly unfulfilling. I really would have preferred these games just having a "You saved the world" party or something, though I guess that isn't really the SMT style. I just would have liked seeing the characters when they weren't stressed, I suppose.

 

[HK-47]

I was going to post Devil Survivor as one (I think I didn't, but I don't really remember posting here in general), but it had some typos, and I didn't like the writing of the ending I got. It felt empty. I don't really disagree with you though as I was enamored all throughout the middle of the game. The ending I got (serious spoilers):

Spoiler

I chose to become the Messiah. The ending to me basically boiled down to the main character acting like Keisuke all the time and the populace being afraid...it was mildly depressing since the game acted like it was going to be a redemption more than Yehowah being a complete tyrant. Even with Naoya being Cain and trying to mislead the main character, I still felt like I made the wrong choice.

Devil Survivor and Devil Summoner 2 both had a lot of potential. I just felt like Devil Summoner 2 fulfilled it a bit more, using the "spark" idea and the Shinado masks, even if my law ending was similarly unfulfilling. I really would have preferred these games just having a "You saved the world" party or something, though I guess that isn't really the SMT style. I just would have liked seeing the characters when they weren't stressed, I suppose.

I dont think there was a right choice in that game. Plus you should have seen that coming. Its actually quite tame compared to

Spoiler

the Law path in other games. For one, Yahweh isnt a total egomanical jackass

 

[ultron87]

I have to withdraw from my comments on Shin Megami Tensei: Devil Survivor a bit, now that I'm further into the game. The story's turned out a lot more intelligent than I initially gave it credit for, and while some of the dialogue is very plain, one of the translators clearly knows what he's doing and elevates some of it to WRPG levels.

I think it's safe to say that the Shin Megami Tensei games are the best-written JRPGs being made nowadays.

So WRPGs are automatically in a class of storytelling/writing entirely above JRPGs?

Extra extra: Oblivion has a better story than every JRPG ever made.

 

[pelicansurf]

Persona 4 is amazing. A game has never made me laugh, a game has never made me laugh multiple times, extremely hard. I don't know what it was about this game, but something got me. The characters were very endearing, you actually cared about them. They were fleshed out so well that everyone had certain people they like more or less and it's very clear as they talk. Their skits were amazing.

 

[NovemberMike]

This. Seriously this whole JRPG vs WRPG wars is just bullshit.

Here's the difference.

Comic relief in a WRPG: Dwarf that gets drunk and speaks with a Scottish accent.

Comic relief in a JRPG: Pedophile bait.

Honestly, the WRPG genre just seems more varied. JRPG's tend to mix everything together so everything ends up the same. Take any Final Fantasy and you will find guns, swords, possibly gunswords, magic and advanced technology. Mass Effect stays firmly in the Sci-Fi setting, the Witcher is clearly a medieval setting, Fallout firmly sets itself as an apocalyptic 50's satire etc.

The other problem I have is that every JRPG has the same cast these days. You have a lead, either gender, age 14-20 that happens to be a highly trained fighter and a bunch of other people in the same age range (possible "grizzled old veteran" who is pushing 27). WRPG's range from Fallout's fresh out of the vault oh-god-why-is-the-world-so-shitty guy to Mass Effect's established veteran to Torment's amnesiac immortal who actually has a past.

I see a few JRPG's break out and do something new, but many of them either emulate western design principles (FFXII, Demon Soul) or simply have interesting stories.

 

[Dresden]

Here's the difference.

Comic relief in a WRPG: Dwarf that gets drunk and speaks with a Scottish accent.

Comic relief in a JRPG: Pedophile bait.

Honestly, the WRPG genre just seems more varied. JRPG's tend to mix everything together so everything ends up the same. Take any Final Fantasy and you will find guns, swords, possibly gunswords, magic and advanced technology. Mass Effect stays firmly in the Sci-Fi setting, the Witcher is clearly a medieval setting, Fallout firmly sets itself as an apocalyptic 50's satire etc.

The other problem I have is that every JRPG has the same cast these days. You have a lead, either gender, age 14-20 that happens to be a highly trained fighter and a bunch of other people in the same age range (possible "grizzled old veteran" who is pushing 27). WRPG's range from Fallout's fresh out of the vault oh-god-why-is-the-world-so-shitty guy to Mass Effect's established veteran to Torment's amnesiac immortal who actually has a past.

I see a few JRPG's break out and do something new, but many of them either emulate western design principles (FFXII, Demon Soul) or simply have interesting stories.

Way to generalize.

And do you realize that you just brought up the best WRPG in existence (Torment) and two of the best RPGs made in the last ten years (ME and Fallout 3) as your WRPG examples? If we just cherry picked the best JRPGs, your generalizations would fall flat on its face.

 

[Crash Station]

Here's the difference.

Comic relief in a WRPG: Dwarf that gets drunk and speaks with a Scottish accent.

Comic relief in a JRPG: Pedophile bait.

Honestly, the WRPG genre just seems more varied. JRPG's tend to mix everything together so everything ends up the same. Take any Final Fantasy and you will find guns, swords, possibly gunswords, magic and advanced technology. Mass Effect stays firmly in the Sci-Fi setting, the Witcher is clearly a medieval setting, Fallout firmly sets itself as an apocalyptic 50's satire etc.

The other problem I have is that every JRPG has the same cast these days. You have a lead, either gender, age 14-20 that happens to be a highly trained fighter and a bunch of other people in the same age range (possible "grizzled old veteran" who is pushing 27). WRPG's range from Fallout's fresh out of the vault oh-god-why-is-the-world-so-shitty guy to Mass Effect's established veteran to Torment's amnesiac immortal who actually has a past.

I see a few JRPG's break out and do something new, but many of them either emulate western design principles (FFXII, Demon Soul) or simply have interesting stories.

I've played pretty much every JRPG with a meta score higher than 65 and I can only think of maybe 3 examples. Seriously, how many JRPGs have you played?

 

[Juno500]

And usually you need to grind for new monsters and abilities. Sure the weakness system should encourage people to always carry a varied party, but for the average gamer Nocturne is just fucking hard and that problem is often solved by getting it over 9000.

Maybe so, but Nocturne wasn't really designed or promoted with the average gamer in mind. This wasn't a big budget, high-profile release like Final Fantasy games are. It wasn't designed for the mass market, it was more designed to appeal to a niche audience, an audience more prepared to deal with those issues.

 

[HK-47]

So WRPGs are automatically in a class of storytelling/writing entirely above JRPGs?

Extra extra: Oblivion has a better story than every JRPG ever made.

Yang is a member of the Council of Snobbish Old School WRPG Players. He probably isnt referring to Oblivion.

 

[NovemberMike]

I've played pretty much every JRPG with a meta score higher than 65 and I can only think of maybe 3 examples. Seriously, how many JRPGs have you played?

That was mostly a joke. In general I'm talking about characters like Rikku that are overplayed for their cute characteristics (this seems to be getting worse in recent years).

Way to generalize.

And do you realize that you just brought up the best WRPG in existence (Torment) and two of the best RPGs made in the last ten years (ME and Fallout 3) as your WRPG examples? If we just cherry picked the best JRPGs, your generalizations would fall flat on its face

Haven't been playing JRPG's recently, but I'll try to address my points with some of the better ones I've played.

FFX: The world is as described. Swords, robots and magic. I couldn't place a time on it if I tried, not from the dress, culture or technology. Characters are a bit more diverse, but you still have Tidus, Yuna, Rikku and Wakka that all fit the mold pretty well, with Lulu and Auron acting as clear Adult figures in it all.

FFXII: World is exactly as described. Rabanastre is a great setting, largely Arabic and low technology, but then you get the futuristic city, Airships and guns thrown into the mixture and it all gets fucked up. I liked the characters quite a bit more than most games, but the rabbit chick is just weird (mostly the metal bikini) and Vaan and Penelope are too young and worthless in the story. Baasch, Balthier and Ashe all have reasonable parts.

If you go back further there are a number of JRPG's that are of a much higher quality than the current stuff, but even then WRPG's had an edge. Chronotrigger and FFVI are both considered great RPG's, but the actual stories weren't anything that special or original, just well done. At the same time you had Planescape Torment making a serious case for videogames as a legitimate form of art, the Ultima games that IIRC were actually working with day/night cycles where people would go to work, eat, go to a bar in the evening and go to sleep at night and things like Baldur's Gate that just had ridiculous amounts of great content.

EDIT: Some more examples of good WRPG characters.
-Geralt is a genetically and magically engineered super soldier designed to fight monsters in a world where most people actively despise him and he actively despises them.
-KOTOR you are the enemy.
-Vampire: the Masquerade you are a Vampire in the oWoD setting, which is pretty unique.

 

[Crash Station]

That was mostly a joke. In general I'm talking about characters like Rikku that are overplayed for their cute characteristics (this seems to be getting worse in recent years).



Haven't been playing JRPG's recently, but I'll try to address my points with some of the better ones I've played.

FFX: The world is as described. Swords, robots and magic. I couldn't place a time on it if I tried, not from the dress, culture or technology. Characters are a bit more diverse, but you still have Tidus, Yuna, Rikku and Wakka that all fit the mold pretty well, with Lulu and Auron acting as clear Adult figures in it all.

FFXII: World is exactly as described. Rabanastre is a great setting, largely Arabic and low technology, but then you get the futuristic city, Airships and guns thrown into the mixture and it all gets fucked up. I liked the characters quite a bit more than most games, but the rabbit chick is just weird (mostly the metal bikini) and Vaan and Penelope are too young and worthless in the story. Baasch, Balthier and Ashe all have reasonable parts.

If you go back further there are a number of JRPG's that are of a much higher quality than the current stuff, but even then WRPG's had an edge. Chronotrigger and FFVI are both considered great RPG's, but the actual stories weren't anything that special or original, just well done. At the same time you had Planescape Torment making a serious case for videogames as a legitimate form of art, the Ultima games that IIRC were actually working with day/night cycles where people would go to work, eat, go to a bar in the evening and go to sleep at night and things like Baldur's Gate that just had ridiculous amounts of great content.

More JRPGs do this than you probably think. Ever hear of Radiata Stories?

 

[HK-47]

The protags in WRPGs are often the blandest character. Its rare they arent just avatars. Two different approaches to protaganists.

Torment came out in 99. CT was 95 and VI was 96. JRPGs actually did have a really good story come out that year. It was called Vagrant Story.

 

[HK-47]

More JRPGs do this than you probably think. Ever hear of Radiata Stories?

Yeah but the Ultima games were way, way ahead of their time in many respects. VII, the pinnacle of the series, came out in 92 and 93, respectively.

 

[ULTROS!]

I dunno, maybe it's cultural interest, personal interest, or to what stuff you've grown up with something?

I highly prefer JRPG stories over WRPG stories because I grew up with JRPG games. So maybe it's a matter of one's opinion towards what stories do they like.

 

[Crash Station]

Yeah but the Ultima games were way, way ahead of their time in many respects. VII, the pinnacle of the series, came out in 92 and 93, respectively.

Yeah I know. He's just talking as if many innovations are totally lost on the genre when they've actually been incorporated quite well.

 

[Tabris]

Xenogears is the greatest video game story told.

 

[NovemberMike]

Yeah but the Ultima games were way, way ahead of their time in many respects. VII, the pinnacle of the series, came out in 92 and 93, respectively.

I think I'm thinking of V, which came out in 88.

I'm not saying that all JRPG's are bad or anything like that. Square in it's good days was almost as good as any studio in the West. I just feel that JRPG's end up more consistently as generic nonsense. Compare FFVIII to FFX and you get two stories that have the same general feel and the same general setting (FFX was water themed, and specifics differed, but many characters could be swapped with little to no change in attire or attitude).

 

[Alex]

More JRPGs do this than you probably think. Ever hear of Radiata Stories?

Too bad it came at the cost of everything else in that game, ugh. Is there any RPG with worse combat than Radiata? An odd blemish for a Tri-Ace game, where usually the combat is the main saving grace.

This entire conversation is difficult to have at the moment, because JRPGs of a descriptive, story based nature have been on the decline for awhile outside of a rare few (yes, handhelds included) and still struggling to this day and WRPG's are probably at the highest point they've been in awhile and look to keep going. For as tropes happy as something like Dragon Age is on the surface, it's character dialogue and exchange is absolutely phenomenal for the medium and I've enjoyed it very much.

For JRPGs, here's just not much of a meter for it lately. We're just not getting big, lore happy JRPGs with tons of character exposition anymore. The current darlings are typically dungeon hacks, roguelikes and variants. I have a PC, PS3, PSP, Wii & DS and all the JRPGs I've played lately pretty much fall under the "other" category, barring remakes of classics.

Which is fine, I prefer that, no bitching here when my selections get to include Monster Hunter, Half Minute Hero and Dragon Quest games but it just doesn't make for much of a story debate.

Final Fantasy XIV is awkwardly the most likely candidate for genre golden child of the current bunch to really walk away with anything. Between the care taken with the XI expansions and the very rich, very interesting lore and background on the site, it's kind of funny to think that an MMO can, and for my tastes likely will be the unchallenged standard setter unless some big events occur.

Such as Suikoden unfucking itself, and Yasumi Matsuno not turning into Yasunori Mitsuda.

 

[HK-47]

Elaborate, Tabris.

 

[Crash Station]

I think I'm thinking of V, which came out in 88.

I'm not saying that all JRPG's are bad or anything like that. Square in it's good days was almost as good as any studio in the West. I just feel that JRPG's end up more consistently as generic nonsense. Compare FFVIII to FFX and you get two stories that have the same general feel and the same general setting (FFX was water themed, and specifics differed, but many characters could be swapped with little to no change in attire or attitude).

I completely disagree but you obviously perceive things differently than I do. Other than Tidus and Yuna having similar portraits to Squall and Rinoa, I really can't think of many similarities at all (at least not in terms of feel, atmosphere and setting).

 

[Crash Station]

Too bad it came at the cost of everything else in that game, ugh. Is there any RPG with worse combat than Radiata? An odd blemish for a Tri-Ace game, where usually the combat is the main saving grace.

This entire conversation is difficult to have at the moment, because JRPGs of a descriptive, story based nature have been on the decline for awhile outside of a rare few (yes, handhelds included) and still struggling to this day and WRPG's are probably at the highest point they've been in awhile and look to keep going. For as tropes happy as something like Dragon Age is on the surface, it's character dialogue and exchange is absolutely phenomenal for the medium and I've enjoyed it very much.

For JRPGs, here's just not much of a meter for it lately. We're just not getting big, lore happy JRPGs with tons of character exposition anymore. The current darlings are typically dungeon hacks, roguelikes and variants. I have a PC, PS3, PSP, Wii & DS and all the JRPGs I've played lately pretty much fall under the "other" category, barring remakes of classics.

Which is fine, I prefer that, no bitching here when my selections get to include Monster Hunter, Half Minute Hero and Dragon Quest games but it just doesn't make for much of a story debate. Final Fantasy XIV is awkwardly the most likely golden child of the current bunch to really walk away with anything. Between the care taken with the XI expansions and the very rich, very interesting lore and background on the site, it's kind of funny to think that an MMO is going to be the standard setter.

I actually think a lot of it has to do with just how oversaturated the market is with JRPGs. If 10 WRPGs come out in one year and only 1 of them has a great story, it will be seen as a huge step forward for the genre. If 100 JRPGs come out in one year and only 1 of them has a great story, it won't have the same impact and might even be ignored. They're still happening but WRPGs in general are just rarer overall.

 

[NovemberMike]

I completely disagree but you obviously perceive things differently than I do. Other than Tidus and Yuna having similar portraits to Squall and Rinoa, I really can't think of many similarities at all (at least not in terms of feel, atmosphere and setting).

It's a setting with indeterminate technological level (swords mixed with guns, FFX has advanced airships etc), several of the characters are established leaders in the world (Rinoa, Yuna, Wakka, Quistis), the world is in clear danger from a recurring threat (Sin, the Sorceresses), the world is tied together by a corrupt organization (the church, SEED).

They aren't superficially similar, but the underlying world is in the same state. Take Headmaster Cid, dress him up a bit differently and he fits right into the FFX world. I can't think of many characters from Fallout that wouldn't feel out of place in Mass Effect (non post apocalyptic world). Maybe some of the vault characters, but they are specifically supposed to act like that.

 

[Crash Station]

It's a setting with indeterminate technological level (swords mixed with guns, FFX has advanced airships etc), several of the characters are established leaders in the world (Rinoa, Yuna, Wakka, Quistis), the world is in clear danger from a recurring threat (Sin, the Sorceresses), the world is tied together by a corrupt organization (the church, SEED).

They aren't superficially similar, but the underlying world is in the same state. Take Headmaster Cid, dress him up a bit differently and he fits right into the FFX world. I can't think of many characters from Fallout that wouldn't feel out of place in Mass Effect (non post apocalyptic world). Maybe some of the vault characters, but they are specifically supposed to act like that.

But you have to expect some level of familiarity. Not only is it the same series but the same team as well. The content and atmosphere was still completely different. FF10 was more a ruined steam punk world rather than a semi-modern cyberpunk world like FF8.

If you really think the genre is losing credibility because of this, maybe you didn't have much tolerance for it in the first place.

 

[HK-47]

FFVIII was techno fantasy with a military bend while FFX is an island world with asian cultural design influences and a heavy religious tone.

 

[Crash Station]

True but Esthar was cyberpunk.

 

[Rahxephon91]

True but Esthar was cyberpunk.

No it wasn't. It was bad quirky sci-fi place.

 

[Alex]

I don't care for the game... or the characters... or the dialogue... but I always felt FFX had a pretty great world design and a fairly interesting plight. At leas until it got a little too self-involved and kind of barfed on itself in the end, but nowadays that's almost to be expected.

 

[Crash Station]

No it wasn't. It was bad quirky sci-fi place.

It was a futuristic mega city. Good or bad, it still has cyberpunk elements.

 

[Tabris]

Elaborate, Tabris.

ID
He gave into his feelings and released his power. And as a result...

[The pendant sound is heard. The pendant fades in silent and still, lying on the black screen.]

ID
... Mother died.

[Camera pan up and to the left towards Young Fei kneeling on the black screen, trembling.]

YOUNG FEI
Mom!

[Camera pan up to the shuddering "Coward" as Fei and the Id kid look on. Camera on the side of Fei.]

ID
And 'he', off-loaded the results of his actions onto me.
To avoid taking the responsibility for killing mother, he used me as a shield.

[All of the personalities turn red. Fei and the Id kid turn to each other. Pan towards the Id kid as they fade out slowly.]

ID
"I also killed mother."

[Scene cuts in to a still of the young Fei with blood on his face in shock. Pan back slowly as the Id kid and Fei face each other. Pan to the right to reveal another screen on the other side of the "room" with the coward sitting there watching the FMV of Young Fei playing ball with Karen.]

ID
He pushed all the bad things onto me... but kept all the memories filled with happiness and mother's love to himself.
And he shut himself away with those memories inside his own little shell... forever. This is the place.
What you see before you, is what he made. He just keeps hanging on to those memories.

[Camera pan in closer to behind Fei on the side.]

FEI
That's what this is...

[Fei looks at both sides of the room twice and then walks towards the Id kid and shakes his head.]

FEI
Stop it! Just stop it! This... These scenes...
Are these all there is to us?

[Fei looks down.]

FEI
Enough already! There is nothing here! Just a world filled with deception and pain...

[Camera pan towards the Id kid. Scene fade. The projector is still heard.]

ID
It can't be helped. This is our world... This is 'everything'...

 

[Host Samurai]

FFVIII was techno fantasy with a military bend while FFX is an island world with asian cultural design influences and a heavy religious tone.

Interesting. I am going to have to check that out again since I have not played X in years.

 

[Rahxephon91]

It was a futuristic mega city. Good or bad, it still has cyberpunk elements.

Not really....

Cyberpunk isn't just future things.

 

[GhaleonQ]

Interesting. I am going to have to check that out again since I have not played X in years.

Warning: the execution in X and its story sequel is less successful than the premise. I'm religious, so I was really looking forward to any examination the game did. Instead, it turned very generic about 2/3 through.

Also, NovemberMike, make sure you play Inazuma 11 when the 1st one finally makes it here. Hopefully, it starts eroding your assumptions.

 

[HK-47]

Hey, I never said it was complex

 

[GhaleonQ]

Hey, I never said it was complex

*laughs* Oh, I know. I just wanted to save him from heightened optimism.

 

[TheShampion]

Warning: the execution in X and its story sequel is less successful than the premise. I'm religious, so I was really looking forward to any examination the game did. Instead, it turned very generic about 2/3 through.

Oh man, did it though. The greatest tragedy of FFX is that you could see the story being good, and you could see how a few edits and a better last 1/3 and that game could of had an amazing story. Alas.

 

[Sinople]

Uh... There's a lot of JRPG with really good writing. To name a few (and their writers) that are almost unknown in the west:
Tengai Makyou II (Masuda Shoji, also a novelist)
Ore no Shikabane wo Koete Yuke (Masuda)
Herakles no Eikou III (Nojima. Yes, this Nojima. He's a very good dialoguist actually, and this one is considered his best story by a lot of Japanese gamers.)
Burai (Iijima Takiya, also a novelist)
Last Armageddon (Iijima)
Etc.

 

[Kagami]

When will people realize that good dialogue != good writing?

You have to have the full package: plot, story, characterization in order to classify as having good writing.

Half the time I can't even tell what people are talking about when they say "writing."
I wish they'd stick to more specific words.

 

[Lyude77]

I dont think there was a right choice in that game. Plus you should have seen that coming. Its actually quite tame compared to

Spoiler

the Law path in other games. For one, Yahweh isnt a total egomanical jackass

Yeah, that's true, and that's somewhat good to hear.

Spoiler

I guess I changed my expectation when Amane was optimistic about it and acting like it would be great, but then everyone just seemed dissatisfied. I think I got spoiled by Devil Summoner 2 not having a law is bad-ish ending. The only other two SMT games I've played are Persona 3/4 (and a random GBC game), so I don't have much experience with the law endings.

I've got DDS and Nocturne, and I'm looking forward to playing them though.

 

[FieryBalrog]

Name me one Western RPG where "save the world" was not the plot. That is the plot of every single WRPG in existence.

Baldur's Gate 1: Find the man who killed your father.

Baldur's Gate 2: Find the mage who stole your soul, and your sister's soul.

Fallout: Find a water chip for your home Vault.

Planescape- Torment: Uncover your past and learn what happened to you, personally, that causes your present condition.

Temple of Elemental Evil: Enter an abandoned temple and either ally with the powers inside or kill them.

See, this is the other thing that bugs me about the ridiculous WRPGvsJRPG wars. WRPGS often do the exact same things as JRPGs, but where JRPGs are savaged for it, WRPGs are absolved of their errors or even praised for them.

Next time don't post.

 

[Cep]

Baldur's Gate 1: Find the man who killed your father.

Baldur's Gate 2: Find the mage who stole your soul, and your sister's soul.

Fallout: Find a water chip for your home Vault.

Planescape- Torment: Uncover your past and learn what happened to you, personally, that causes your present condition.

Temple of Elemental Evil: Enter an abandoned temple and either ally with the powers inside or kill them.


Next time don't post.

No kidding. He should join a WRPG story discussion thread if he thinks they all get away with it.

The Witcher: Locate and punish those who invaded your home, killed your protégées and stole your secrets.

 

[FieryBalrog]

ID
He gave into his feelings and released his power. And as a result...

[The pendant sound is heard. The pendant fades in silent and still, lying on the black screen.]

ID
... Mother died.

[Camera pan up and to the left towards Young Fei kneeling on the black screen, trembling.]

YOUNG FEI
Mom!

[Camera pan up to the shuddering "Coward" as Fei and the Id kid look on. Camera on the side of Fei.]

ID
And 'he', off-loaded the results of his actions onto me.
To avoid taking the responsibility for killing mother, he used me as a shield.

[All of the personalities turn red. Fei and the Id kid turn to each other. Pan towards the Id kid as they fade out slowly.]

ID
"I also killed mother."

[Scene cuts in to a still of the young Fei with blood on his face in shock. Pan back slowly as the Id kid and Fei face each other. Pan to the right to reveal another screen on the other side of the "room" with the coward sitting there watching the FMV of Young Fei playing ball with Karen.]

ID
He pushed all the bad things onto me... but kept all the memories filled with happiness and mother's love to himself.
And he shut himself away with those memories inside his own little shell... forever. This is the place.
What you see before you, is what he made. He just keeps hanging on to those memories.

[Camera pan in closer to behind Fei on the side.]

FEI
That's what this is...

[Fei looks at both sides of the room twice and then walks towards the Id kid and shakes his head.]

FEI
Stop it! Just stop it! This... These scenes...
Are these all there is to us?

[Fei looks down.]

FEI
Enough already! There is nothing here! Just a world filled with deception and pain...

[Camera pan towards the Id kid. Scene fade. The projector is still heard.]

ID
It can't be helped. This is our world... This is 'everything'...

Never change. :lol

 

[gamergirly]

ID
He gave into his feelings and released his power. And as a result...

[The pendant sound is heard. The pendant fades in silent and still, lying on the black screen.]

ID
... Mother died.

[Camera pan up and to the left towards Young Fei kneeling on the black screen, trembling.]

YOUNG FEI
Mom!

[Camera pan up to the shuddering "Coward" as Fei and the Id kid look on. Camera on the side of Fei.]

ID
And 'he', off-loaded the results of his actions onto me.
To avoid taking the responsibility for killing mother, he used me as a shield.

[All of the personalities turn red. Fei and the Id kid turn to each other. Pan towards the Id kid as they fade out slowly.]

ID
"I also killed mother."

[Scene cuts in to a still of the young Fei with blood on his face in shock. Pan back slowly as the Id kid and Fei face each other. Pan to the right to reveal another screen on the other side of the "room" with the coward sitting there watching the FMV of Young Fei playing ball with Karen.]

ID
He pushed all the bad things onto me... but kept all the memories filled with happiness and mother's love to himself.
And he shut himself away with those memories inside his own little shell... forever. This is the place.
What you see before you, is what he made. He just keeps hanging on to those memories.

[Camera pan in closer to behind Fei on the side.]

FEI
That's what this is...

[Fei looks at both sides of the room twice and then walks towards the Id kid and shakes his head.]

FEI
Stop it! Just stop it! This... These scenes...
Are these all there is to us?

[Fei looks down.]

FEI
Enough already! There is nothing here! Just a world filled with deception and pain...

[Camera pan towards the Id kid. Scene fade. The projector is still heard.]

ID
It can't be helped. This is our world... This is 'everything'...

Man, ID was a piece of work but Xenogears definitely had a greatly crafted story. They really just dont make rpgs like they used to

 

[Chairman Yang]

Yang is a member of the Council of Snobbish Old School WRPG Players. He probably isnt referring to Oblivion.

Yeah, I was really talking about the average quality of WRPG writing compared with the average quality of JRPG writing. Part of it is due to translation, cultural differences, and whatnot, but take away the outliers on each end, and I think it's clear that the former is higher than the latter.

Again, I'm talking about average quality, not comparing the top of each subgenre.

 

[Llyranor]

Well, given that he's talking about Oblivion, he's obviously discussing the bottom of each subgenre.

 

[diztrukted]

I would say Lost Odyssey

I also appreciated Magna Carta 2....the story was what kept me going

 

[Fimbulvetr]

Well, given that he's talking about Oblivion, he's obviously discussing the bottom of each subgenre.

Oblivion had a story?

I couldn't tell because I was so booooooooooooored. :/

 

[Cep]

Oblivion had a story?

I couldn't tell because I was so booooooooooooored. :/

I came for the world, I left when I realized that not only was killing dudes dull, but someone forgot to populate the world with anything remotely interesting.

I did not even get to the point where the uninspired writing got to me.

 

[FieryBalrog]

I came for the world, I left when I realized that not only was killing dudes dull, but someone forgot to populate the world with anything remotely interesting.

I did not even get to the point where the uninspired writing got to me.

The Elder Scrolls games were never really about the plot. They were about what you could do in the vast game-world.

The problem with Oblivion was more the combat and the idiotic enemy level system.