If you honestly believe that then I can tell you right now we are at a complete philosophical impasse right off the bat.
-
Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!
Let's talk about the friend zone
- Thread starter Fudgepuppy
- Start date
- Status
If you honestly believe that then I can tell you right now we are at a complete philosophical impasse right off the bat.
Alpha Centauri
Member
Sex is a component. Intimacy is quite a big one as well. Unless you feel like you can cuddle and caress with your bestie.
Captain Smoker
Member
These are opinion pieces and not law.
And these articles only work if their one single premise ("you owe it to me" "obligation"), is correct, which is just a general assumption and isn't real for every single women or man out there.
Women get into friend zones just as well.
Fudgepuppy
Banned
It's not like romantic feelings have an expiration date. If you're compatible, it will grow out of itself.
Mammoth Jones
Member
Recognizing? Of course not. I'm more talking about the type of person that complains about getting friend-zoned.
Alpha Centauri
Member
Definitely. And it feels so bad when I do it, because I know exactly how it feels when it happens to me.
Autoignition
Member
"She'll put you in the friend zone" sounds like some form of punishment, like it's some form of adult time out -- like it's a decision that a woman consciously makes in order to screw over a man, instead of just not being into him because she's just not that into him. The term "friend zone" also makes it sound like being friends with a woman is an undesirable outcome.
It's very rare that sexual attraction takes people by surprise. If you don't want to fuck someone, you know pretty much right away. And if you're not sure, it usually only takes a handful of conversations to push you one way or the other. The idea that you can cultivate romantic interest through the initial pursuit of friendship just isn't a reality for the majority of people.
If you're not sure if you want to have a relationship with someone, go on a date with them first. Don't become friends with them to find out. If you a pursue friendship, you have absolutely no right to be surprised or feel hurt when a friendship is what you end up with. It's like people have forgotten that single dates are non-binding social contracts.
It's very rare that sexual attraction takes people by surprise. If you don't want to fuck someone, you know pretty much right away. And if you're not sure, it usually only takes a handful of conversations to push you one way or the other. The idea that you can cultivate romantic interest through the initial pursuit of friendship just isn't a reality for the majority of people.
If you're not sure if you want to have a relationship with someone, go on a date with them first. Don't become friends with them to find out. If you a pursue friendship, you have absolutely no right to be surprised or feel hurt when a friendship is what you end up with. It's like people have forgotten that single dates are non-binding social contracts.
You know it is possible to be romantically interested in someone without the first thought being about sex, right
Think of someone that you get along with, but you can never see yourself dating that person. It doesn't matter if you like hanging out with that person or if you think they're physically attractive. For some reason, you can just never see yourself being involved with this person romantically, ever. If that person ever made romantic advances at you, you would just feel uncomfortable.
That can be called a friendzone, though the word has too much baggage associated with it at this point to be used much. The point is, sometimes someone is attracted to someone but the other person doesn't see other person in the same way. That just happens, and it's normal. Nothing wrong with that.
The question is whether some people wonder if some people can change their view of someone from someone who's just a friend to someone that they want to be romantically involved with. Personally, I don't think so, or at least is very rare. People either see someone as a potential romantic partner or they don't. Do those feelings change? Maybe it's possible - obviously I don't know for sure - but what you should certainly never do is try to force the issue.
If you show interest in someone and they turn you down, saying that they just don't see you that way, drop the issue right there. You won't change their mind, and continuously trying to pursue someone who's made it clear that he or she is not interested in you is just as uncomfortable and creepy as it sounds.
As for making your move fast? I think in some cases, if you get too close to a girl and spend too much time with her without ever showing any romantic interest, then the girl might logically assume that you're not interested in her romantically. If you're interested in her, then you should probably ask her out sooner than that. I think that's what your friend means.
That can be called a friendzone, though the word has too much baggage associated with it at this point to be used much. The point is, sometimes someone is attracted to someone but the other person doesn't see other person in the same way. That just happens, and it's normal. Nothing wrong with that.
The question is whether some people wonder if some people can change their view of someone from someone who's just a friend to someone that they want to be romantically involved with. Personally, I don't think so, or at least is very rare. People either see someone as a potential romantic partner or they don't. Do those feelings change? Maybe it's possible - obviously I don't know for sure - but what you should certainly never do is try to force the issue.
If you show interest in someone and they turn you down, saying that they just don't see you that way, drop the issue right there. You won't change their mind, and continuously trying to pursue someone who's made it clear that he or she is not interested in you is just as uncomfortable and creepy as it sounds.
As for making your move fast? I think in some cases, if you get too close to a girl and spend too much time with her without ever showing any romantic interest, then the girl might logically assume that you're not interested in her romantically. If you're interested in her, then you should probably ask her out sooner than that. I think that's what your friend means.
lightskintwin
Banned
I've seen guys get friend zoned when they legitimately had a chancce. These guys tend to have a pattern of it.
Pai Pai Master
Banned
This.
Someone who is into you doesn't just stop being into you because of some arbitrary measure of time. And if you fail to get with someone who shows some interest but then later does not, that's called someone getting to know you and not finding you sexually attractive. It's normal. It's human. It's not some mysterious "friend zone."
openrob
Member
Friend zone = a guy doesn't know how to express he is interested in being romantically involved with a girl, so instead tries to be a nice friend thinking that will work.
Never makes an actual move, or express sexual interest,because he believes that being 'nice' or a good friend will lead to something more.
It won't.
Friend zone does not equal making a move and getting rejected.
Never makes an actual move, or express sexual interest,because he believes that being 'nice' or a good friend will lead to something more.
It won't.
Friend zone does not equal making a move and getting rejected.
brianjones
Member
verbalizing internet terms is lame as fucc
tkscz
Member
To the average person, the friend zone is a thing, only a minority of people believe it's not a real thing.
I believe there is a friend zone but it's more than just being considered "just a friend" by someone you like. He/She has to treat you more than "just a friend" to the point where you're confused about your standing. Then you you make the move, they tell you that you are "just a friend". But then, when you move on from him/her and start dating someone else, they become jealous that you've moved on, to the point where they just stop talking to you or get angry at you for it. Three times I've had this shit happen.
lightskintwin
Banned
This.
I think there are two main cases:
1) She was interested, you had chemistry, you made a mistake, and now she's not interested. But instead of recognizing that they made a mistake, most guys blame the girl for friend-zoning them.
2) She's just out of your league or you're not her type.
I think 2 is a lot less common though. I think usually the pain of the friend zone comes from number 1, where a guy thought he had a chance at a relationship, and was probably right, and then blew it.
One thing that might be interesting would be a log of "Ways of blowing it", because I think focusing on that and learning from it is more productive than worrying that a girl will capriciously hurl you into an alternate dimension.
How to screw up
1) Going in for a kiss too early
2) Not going for it at an obviously good time
3) Taking a girl who doesn't like scary movies to a scary movie
4) Hovering
5) Leaving a string of voicemails
1) She was interested, you had chemistry, you made a mistake, and now she's not interested. But instead of recognizing that they made a mistake, most guys blame the girl for friend-zoning them.
2) She's just out of your league or you're not her type.
I think 2 is a lot less common though. I think usually the pain of the friend zone comes from number 1, where a guy thought he had a chance at a relationship, and was probably right, and then blew it.
One thing that might be interesting would be a log of "Ways of blowing it", because I think focusing on that and learning from it is more productive than worrying that a girl will capriciously hurl you into an alternate dimension.
How to screw up
1) Going in for a kiss too early
2) Not going for it at an obviously good time
3) Taking a girl who doesn't like scary movies to a scary movie
4) Hovering
5) Leaving a string of voicemails
It's a complicated social phenomenon, but one that is ultimately immature and often sexist. Boiled down to its essence, the friend zone is just a casual term for unrequited love.
What happens is normal, platonic interactions, niceties, and affection are misinterpreted as flirting. The person who misinterprets these things is usually scared or unwilling to admit their feelings for one reason or another (social anxiety, lack of confidence, worrying about losing the person, etc). The other person is either oblivious to these feelings or is choosing not to acknowledge them. Then said feelings compound into a breaking point, both are forced to face the reality, and then the 'friend zoner' is villified for essentially doing nothing wrong.
What happens is normal, platonic interactions, niceties, and affection are misinterpreted as flirting. The person who misinterprets these things is usually scared or unwilling to admit their feelings for one reason or another (social anxiety, lack of confidence, worrying about losing the person, etc). The other person is either oblivious to these feelings or is choosing not to acknowledge them. Then said feelings compound into a breaking point, both are forced to face the reality, and then the 'friend zoner' is villified for essentially doing nothing wrong.
Oddly, I've read most of those and had the same gut reaction: that I'm in some sort of alternate universe where opinion pieces and Internet jackasses (the red pill) define all of reality.
No one is saying those people don't exist. It's just this notion that "friend zone" is an inherently sexist notion that means a man believes a woman owes him sex for being a decent human being is strange recent twisting of reality. It didn't originate from any perceived obligation - it originated from the recognition that someone doesn't see you as a romantic option. That's all.
Yeah, it basically boils down to some form of this. You either didn't make a move, waited too long to make a move, or botched your attempt at making a move, and thus the other person has lost interest in you. It ultimately is the whole "window of opportunity is closed" deal.
The idea that it's some thing purely made by sexually frustrated manbabies is really off point, in my opinion.
entremet
Member
The Friend Zone is basically guys denying their masculinity.
Women are awesome and have a unique magnetism if you're a straight guy. Don't deny your attraction. It's perfectly normal.
If you like someone, go for it and put yourself out and face rejection or acceptance.
If she's not into you, it's actually easier to be friends with a girl that clear about that they die of a thousand cuts wondering what is.
Women are awesome and have a unique magnetism if you're a straight guy. Don't deny your attraction. It's perfectly normal.
If you like someone, go for it and put yourself out and face rejection or acceptance.
If she's not into you, it's actually easier to be friends with a girl that clear about that they die of a thousand cuts wondering what is.
I have a feeling you didn't mean to quote me becasue that's kinda what I was saying.
There are even people who have romantic feelings but identify as asexual.
Is this friend zone?
Somebody who You see alot and get along well with, but your too scared to make a move since you have to see them too often through hobbies or mutual friends.
This is what I've struggled in the past with,
I think this is the true friend zone where I friend zoned somebody who I find extreamly attractive.
Somebody who You see alot and get along well with, but your too scared to make a move since you have to see them too often through hobbies or mutual friends.
This is what I've struggled in the past with,
I think this is the true friend zone where I friend zoned somebody who I find extreamly attractive.
Puck Beaverton
Banned
Nobody uses friend zone in a positive way also.
I might have misread what you said, apologies
TarpitCarnivore
Member
I feel like there was a point that friend zone was used very tongue in cheek, but is now used as a form of slander / insult against the other person.
Far too many people use now in self deprecating and depressive ways.
Far too many people use now in self deprecating and depressive ways.
Captain Smoker
Member
There is nothing mysterious about the term "friend zone", it's just a term that describes a certain situation between to people.
It's like the german term "Schadenfreude", which tries to describe the feeling of joy when you see someone failing.
Person A is sexually interested / romantically interested / in love with Person B, therefore wants a relationship which involves things you usually don't do as friends. (or whatever you think that describes a relationship)
Person A tries to persuade Person B with things and behaviours that don't trigger any of that interesent in Person B.
Person B therefore doesn't want to do "relationship things" or a relationship (whatever these things are, it's different from society to society / person to person) and rather be friends, because they aren't attracted, don't feel the love, whatever.
For most people the largest differentiator between friends and relationship is probably sexual activity, so it's a big topic anyway.
lol, I've always felt there was already an existing term for this - it's called "you have no game"
blame space
Banned
i have been friendzoned 96 times AMA
AAAAAH ok, that I can get behind, to a degree. At least now we are talking about attitude of the individual, which is exactly what I was getting at in my first post in the thread. The term isn't an issue, it's how it's used.
Pai Pai Master
Banned
But you can call that normal human coupling behavior. Unrequited love can lead to some bitter feelings and it's better to call it like it is instead of assigning some label to it that casually villifies the uninterested party (usually a woman).
Kotetsu534
Member
This. I do think a lot of young men - including myself, at one time - have a legitimate grievance in simply never being told this if they didn't have an older mentor to inform them. A lot of instruction to young men is of the "be nice to the girls" variety, which is all well and good, but doesn't help them process attraction effectively.
AnathemicOne
Banned
What you're describing is a one-sided friendship which then wouldn't be classified as a true friendship. To clarify on my example on forming relationships it's either I make my intents clear from the getgo or I develop romantic intentions whilst already as friends.
The only times where I see friend zone silliness happen was during middle and high school where adolescence typically has people run amok with emotions. Past that stage of life and into adulthood, if one is still holding onto childish concepts then one should focus on getting a handle of their emotional maturity first before pursuing relationships.
BlueTsunami
there is joy in sucking dick
Originally the term seemed to be used by people who were too afraid to ask to date someone outright so they orbit someones life waiting for an opening that never comes. Ultimately shifting the blame on the other person than themselves.
Astral Dog
Member
Im not sure this sounds right,at least most people don't use it that way
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
The "friend zone" is the most awkward shit ever. It's not like someone you have romantic inclinations for is required to either refuse to associate with you or accede to your demand for romantic entanglement.
You agreement to the "friend" part is a required condition. The idea of being put in a romantic prison is an absurd mental construct anyways. There are lots and lots of people who go from friends to "friends with benefits" to "married."
You agreement to the "friend" part is a required condition. The idea of being put in a romantic prison is an absurd mental construct anyways. There are lots and lots of people who go from friends to "friends with benefits" to "married."
DeathoftheEndless
Crashing this plane... with no survivors!
I agree with you. There is no narrow definition for the friend zone, its a broad category covering different kinds of unreciprocated affection.
Violence Jack
Member
I used to get friend-zoned by women who had some emotional baggage to deal with. Once they got over whatever was holding them back, I was seen as the "big brother" type and romance was completely off the table. But those women went on to be some of the best friends a guy could ask for so it worked out for the best.
There's too many women out there in the world for it to have really bothered me. I ended up marrying a girl who quickly became my best friend.
There's too many women out there in the world for it to have really bothered me. I ended up marrying a girl who quickly became my best friend.
John Kowalski
Banned
Reading this thread makes me think that that's what it actually is. Sounds like a narrative to guilt women into feeling sad for the men they reject. Especially because it always appears in the context of men trying to find relationships with women.
And as things became more evidently sexist, the term was reframed to lose its negative implications and to become applicable in more situations.
lightskintwin
Banned
You realize you can go on dates and still get friend zoned, right?
How does it vilify the uninterested party?
I understand the conversation and tone around that kind of discussion can do that, but how does the term actually in and of itself do that? How does "I'm in the friend zone" differ substantially from "she only sees me as a friend"?
Holy Order Sol
Member
You can be friend zoned and be fine with it. Like that doesn't make it not a thing, it still happened.
blame space
Banned
hell I've been having sex while in the friendzone
Leafhopper
Banned
Sure wish I was told this stuff like 8 years ago lol. Mainly the being nice part.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
I first heard of the concept (though probably not the term specifically) in the '90s from The Ladder Theory: http://www.laddertheory.com/
Read it, it's just sexist garbage.
As far as I can tell, the current colloquial "friend zone" is a special name for the pity party one has when they're too chicken to make moves when they would've mattered, so they'd rather assign the blame to the person rejecting them ("she put me in the friend zone" rather than recognizing she's just not into you). So from my perspective, not only is the person using this term unable to self-analyze their own behavior, they actively avoid accountability by putting it on someone else. Pretty low move.
Read it, it's just sexist garbage.
As far as I can tell, the current colloquial "friend zone" is a special name for the pity party one has when they're too chicken to make moves when they would've mattered, so they'd rather assign the blame to the person rejecting them ("she put me in the friend zone" rather than recognizing she's just not into you). So from my perspective, not only is the person using this term unable to self-analyze their own behavior, they actively avoid accountability by putting it on someone else. Pretty low move.
so if a male asks a female, clearly and plainly "do you want to go on a date with me" and the female responds "no/i have a bf/not interested but we can still be friends"
Its A) the males fault he got friend zoned
B) he's sexist
C) he's an asshole for "being nice and expecting sex for being nice"
I dont even understand you people.
Yes of course there are assholes out there that whine or complain about being friend zoned when they put themselves there, but there are others that clearly state intentions and get put into the friend zone.
its cause they don't. These things aren't black and white, they are shades of grey and should be taken by case by case basis.
entremet
Member
You can get dumped and still get friendzoned!
Waste of time and energy.
If you want to be friends with an ex, go for it. But if you're pining for her romantically, just bail forever. That will also kill your confidence too.
- Status