Support NeoGAF

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

Where does this theory comes from that all the people who cry about being friend zoned are doing that because they couldn't have sex?


Isn't that kind of sexist thinking too? That all guys are just wanting sex, especially if they can't handle rejection?

I mean, have you Googled "friend zone memes"? What you're describing is the origin and most popular use of the term.

Besides, if it's not about that, why would the friend zone be a thing to complain about? Why is the woman's only potential value the sex or dating part?

It's hard to tell someone who is sexually attracted to you that you don't feel the same way, especially if you're friends with that person and want to stay that way. The friend zone is invented for people to deal with it through blaming the person who was never interested.

This!

 

[entremet]

I believe the friend zone is a bi product of several themes and plot devices of a lot of media in the 80s, 90s, and 00s. I still see it nowadays, though not as much.

The friend zone is a awful thing that was born from a combination of several common beliefs, namely:

• Good things come to those that wait.
• Nice guys finish last.
• True love was right in front of you the whole time.

I try not to blame anyone that feels like the friendzone is a real thing, because they've had these concept drilled into them all throughout their life.

How many sitcoms involved a dweebish guy who had to watch the girl he wanted date these "jerks" that weren't good enough for her?

How many cartoons involved a cute girl interest where the guy really made no effort to initiate anything, and just hoped the girl would see him for who he is?

How many movies showed us a story about how a girl kept dating the wrong guys over and over only to eventually fall madly in love with her best friend who had been there the whole time?

This is what created the friend zone. This horrible idea that all women have to date these horrible assholes because they don't know any better until the sweet male friend swoops in to fix everything? Hell, people still cite Pam and Jim from The Office as a great on screen couple but the entire first 3 season are all about navigating the friend zone.

So now what happens when guys try to experience this in the real world, except it doesn't work? It can't be that they've done something wrong. They've literally followed the playbook of all the movies and tv shows they watch to know what "should" happen... yet it doesn't.

It's just this huge disconnect of what society teaching us vs what actually happens. It actually reminds me of the movie Don Jon. You send this whole movie seeing JGL dealing with a porn addiciton and not being able to cope with the disconnect of real women vs porn women, except for that one scene where you see the same thing illustrated to ScarJo's character where she sees these Romantic stories as a guideline for how love is supposed to work.

So you have two genders that are taught two radically different perspectives on how to deal with "love" from a young age, and neither of them are even close to how it actually works.

This is what created the friendzone, and this is why people still feel like they get trapped in it to this day.

This is good, but it was also something that was perpetuated by people.

How many single moms told their sons to be themselves? Teachers?

Remember the 80s where also an era of broken families and sky high divorce rates. Many sons lost that male mentor to help them navigate the waters of dating and romance, so pop culture filled that void.

 

[Vicetrailia]

I do think at it's most basic, primal level; getting friendzoned means the other person can't see themselves being sexual with you.

And they can lose interests because they figure that you aren't interested, move into better things, etc.

 

[chrizzz09]

Why did this happen, though?

The Friend Zone is a relatively new thing, probably last 30 years, and it's mostly the result of men lacking positive masculine dating advice. I'm not talking about misogynists tripe, but stuff our grandfathers already knew.

But if you like a girl, ask her out.

Somewhere along the line, guys started being friends with women they're attracted to, with the hope of romance springing from that.

Why is that?

That's a totally losing strategy. And it's happening more and more and these days.

I guess thats because we are more exposed to the media and the internet in general, which publishes monthly articles about "Women wanting genuine relationships"; "Women complain about never finding a honest guy" and a general creation of a "idolized standard".

Because of that guys think "Fuck that macho bullshit, I am going to be this genuine honest guy! And I am going to prove it to her by showing loyalty and persistence first in our friendship and after I proved what a decent man I am, she is inevitably going to acknowledge my love to her and we get to marry, because I am the best possible future husband".

Edit: Also yeah basically Kor of Memorys post about the idolization of true love in movies, series etc. where the "best friend who was right there from the start, gets together with the girl".

 

[AnAnole]

It's simple.

"Friendzoned" is when the other person was initially interested in you romantically, but you blew it due to a variety of possible obvious and not so obvious reasons, before anything actually happened, but they still think you're a worthwhile friend.

Sometimes romantic feelings can be fleeting.

Someone never reciprocating your attraction for them at any singular point in time but wanting to be your friend is not being "friendzoned".

 

[Puck Beaverton]

I'm glad that I can now finally place the blame on my upbringing and television instead of myself

whew, that was close, kinda glad I can continue to avoid responsibility now

 

[lightskintwin]

And they can lose interests because they figure that you aren't interested, move into better things, etc.

Yeah but you might not get friendzoned over that.

 

[HawksWinStanley]

Me and my friends circle think that the term "friend zone" refers to the "place" you put yourself in, after you have gotten rejected by someone, and then you hope that you can still achieve your goal of getting together with the person by staying long enough friends with them.
Hoping to be the "one" who always stayed by their side, when they needed you, so that the other person might finally acknowledge your "worthiness", and thus achieving your original goal because of your "persistence" or "loyalty", "showing that you truly treasured the person" and so on...

Nailed it. It's somebody who got rejected either straight up "Oh I don't think of you that way"" or indirectly "You're such a good friend" and sticks around in that friend role hoping that eventually they'll eventually change their mind or it'll suddenly dawn on them that the guy/girl of their dreams was them.

From what I've seen sex usually has little or nothing to do with it. The ones looking for sex just move on and don't waste their time. And in the vast majority of the cases I've witnessed myself it was women in the friend zone, so I'm not sure where all of the sexist and owed sex talk is coming from some people in this thread.

Some folk say that on the night of a new moon, he can still be seen roaming the woods.

lol

 

[lightskintwin]

It's simple.

"Friendzoned" is when the other person was initially interested in you romantically, but you blew it due to a variety of possible obvious and not so obvious reasons, before anything actually happened, but they still think you're a worthwhile friend.

Sometimes romantic feelings can be fleeting.

Someone never reciprocating your attraction for them at any singular point in time but wanting to be your friend is not being "friendzoned".

This is how I look at it.

 

[Airola]

It comes from places like theredpill on reddit where guys are constantly crying that they got friendzoned by a slut who should be grateful to blow a nice guy like them

So this makes all use of "friend zone" like that?
Also, I doubt that even those places all of them talk about it like that.

 

[blame space]

just go up to people who you think look nice and ask them out on the spot. it's the only way to find happiness.

of course your game has to come correct, but there's so many resources these days for that!

make your intentions known, and whatever you do, don't be yourself. they hate that.

 

[entremet]

I'm glad that I can now finally place the blame on my upbringing and television instead of myself

whew, that was close, kinda glad I can continue to avoid responsibility now

Well this is where you can adapt. Don't keep using losing strategies.

 

[Captainbojanglesiii]

Besides, if it's not about that, why would the friend zone be a thing to complain about? Why is the woman's only potential value the sex or dating part?

I don't think that's necessarily fair. If you see someone romantically and they don't see you that way, it's going to suck. Most guys complaining about being 'friendzone' really are just complaining about being rejected.

Obviously that isn't the woman's only value, but I imagine it's hard to go from rejection right to "Oh, but at least we can be friends!." Most people don't get over feelings that easily. And once again, I've seen women complain about being friend zoned by men.

 

[kirblar]

I don't think that's necessarily fair. If you see someone romantically and they don't see you that way, it's going to suck. Most guys complaining about being 'friendzone' really are just complaining about being rejected.

Obviously that isn't the woman's only value, but I imagine it's hard to go from rejection right to "Oh, but at least we can be friends!." Most people don't get over feelings that easily. And once again, I've seen women complain about being friend zoned by men.

We've got stories/plays on unrequited love going back centuries upon centuries. This stuff ain't new.

 

[AnathemicOne]

this is why i specifically added to the females response "but we can still be friends"

also pro tip you can be friendzoned and still walk away, you could even ghost that person and still be in their friendzone.

The fuck does this even mean? Friendship works both ways, it requires both parties to agree on it. If you walk away and the person still calls you their friend well then that's on them being stupid it's out of your court.

You are either friends or you aren't.

 

[Captainbojanglesiii]

We've got stories/plays on unrequited love going back centuries upon centuries. This stuff ain't new.

Not quite sure how this relates to my post, but you're absolutely right

 

[Goliath]

Also sucks for the girl who thought she had a friend but it turns out he only wanted sex.

Eeeh, I knew more then my fair share of girls that knew exactly what they were doing when they were stringing guys along. It goes both ways, guys lacking the confidence to just ask her out and sometimes girls who like the attention a guy gives them.

Most of the time when a guy is interested in a girl, even if he doesn't say it, it is painfully obvious to EVERYONE else, including the girl. Very few surprise moments.

 

[Jeronimo Jones]

I never knew the amount of baggage the term has or that so many different interpretations existed.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

Not quite sure how this relates to my post, but you're absolutely right

I think the point is that while modern usage of the term is generally on the rise in well-meaning people due to exposure to it, the origins and use of the term for the last decade have made it an easy sign of some fucked up ideas. It's like how everyone's saying cuck now because it's unfortunately become culture, but two years ago we knew exactly what sort of person would call everyone that.

Essentially "she put me in the friend zone" was popularized as a way to spin the situation to assign blame to the person rejecting them, because we've always had easy shorthand ways of describing someone "just not being into you" anyway.

 

[chrizzz09]

just go up to people who you think look nice and ask them out on the spot. it's the only way to find happiness.

of course your game has to come correct, but there's so many resources these days for that!

make your intentions known, and whatever you do, don't be yourself. they hate that.

As sad as this sound, you need to turn of your kindness a little bit and turn up the "Fuck it, fuck them, fuck the world, fuck-all-those-unworthy-peasants-breathing-my-air-aka-other-people" attitude

 

[Bruce Springsteen]

Doesn't exist, I've hooked up with enough girls after being in that "friend zone" to know it's bullshit.


If someone is physically attracted to you, they're not going to lose it just because you didn't make a move within a certain time period you get stuck in an invisible anti-sex force field

 

[Sapiens]

I think the point is that while modern usage of the term is generally on the rise in well-meaning people due to exposure to it, the origins and use of the term for the last decade have made it an easy sign of some fucked up ideas. It's like how everyone's saying cuck now because it's unfortunately become culture, but two years ago we knew exactly what sort of person would call everyone that.

Essentially "she put me in the friend zone" was popularized as a way to spin the situation to assign blame to the person rejecting them, because we've always had easy shorthand ways of describing someone "just not being into you" anyway.

Pretty much. If you're finding yourself in the friend zone a lot, step back and take a real hard look at your life. Love yourself, improve yourself, make some fukkin money, and people will trip over themselves trying to be in your world.

We can't all be super sexy models, so we have to compensate by being awesome.

 

[Dimefan3]

Call me old fashioned, but I've always been of the notion that relationships stem from friendships. After all, most people end up marrying their best friend, don't they?

So I don't really think 'friendzone' is a thing, nor do I think it means the guy thinks he's owed sex.That's more entitlement than 'friendzoned'.

I would rather become friends with a girl first, if the attraction is mutual it will grow naturally.

Personally, I've come to the conclusion that I'm not a 'dating' guy - Although I haven't dated or been in a relationship for a while, but I'd rather just be in a relationship, without the games.

Spoiler

Then again, I may just be horrible with women and flirting.

 

[KoopaTheCasual]

OP with the steal humble brag, I see you. /jk

The "friend zone" is basically what happens when your window of opportunity for a romantic and/or sexual relationship closes.

And thread.

Yea, I feel like its also a persecution complex thing. It can always be summed up as, "dude, (s)he's just not into you, sorry." Your person of interest didn't put you in a weird sub-category. They just consider you a normal friend.

 

[entremet]

Pretty much. If you're finding yourself in the friend zone, step back and take a real hard look at your life.

It's not even hard look at life. It's just changing your dating strategy.

Guys get so caught up with this stuff, forgetting that it's not a fatal position.

You make the mistake, learn, and grow.

But we wanna flog a dead horse. So much of dating talk centers on people having these unchanging outcomes. That's a myth.

Y'all make it sound like some dating mistakes are these huge catastrophes. They're not.

 

[Airola]

Besides, if it's not about that, why would the friend zone be a thing to complain about? Why is the woman's only potential value the sex or dating part?

Why is anything a thing to complain about?

Of course if something feels frustrating, it will be complained about by someone. If a person over and over again gets rejected but they always want to be friends, of course it causes frustration. You can't really expect people to turn off their attraction just like that. It's not easy to be friends with someone you are interested in romantically. It's easier to be friends if you only want sex, but if you have romantical feelings it could be absolutely impossible to be just friends - or at least without feeling frustrated about it.

Is wanting to date a girl a bad thing now? No one has said it's women's only value.

 

[Amory]

you're only put in the "friend zone" by choice. if you're into someone and they're not into you in the same way, just cut ties.

no use torturing yourself over it

 

[AnathemicOne]

Call me old fashioned, but I've always been of the notion that relationships stem from friendships. After all, most people end up marrying their best friend, don't they?

So I don't really think 'friendzone' is a thing, nor do I think it means the guy thinks he's owed sex.That's more entitlement than 'friendzoned'.

I would rather become friends with a girl first, if the attraction is mutual it will grow naturally.

Personally, I've come to the conclusion that I'm not a 'dating' guy - Although I haven't dated or been in a relationship for a while, but I'd rather just be in a relationship, without the games.

Spoiler

Then again, I may just be horrible with women and flirting.

This is fine if you are able to emotionally and mental separate friendship from romantic relationship; don't enter the former expecting the latter. If romance happens within a friendship then it happens, it's normal, what's sexist is expecting the romance to happen.

 

[Kor of Memory]

Call me old fashioned, but I've always been of the notion that relationships stem from friendships. After all, most people end up marrying their best friend, don't they?

Ehhh....

I'd say that most lasting marriages involve people who marry their best friends, but there are plenty of marriages that don't last, or even some that do that don't have the spouses as friends (arranged marriages are still a thing).

 

[liquidtmd]

It comes from places like theredpill on reddit where guys are constantly crying that they got friendzoned by a slut who should be grateful to blow a nice guy like them

You keep citing that place on Reddit. It's like going to the shittiest bar in town and using the people there as an example of models of behaviour

Sure they absolutely exist and by all means use them in a considered way, but it's like someone extrapolating posts on Mumsnet and coming up with broad definitions and opinions about the bitchiness, cynicism and neurosis within women.

 

[Moff]

Is wanting to date a girl a bad thing now? No one has said it's women's only value.

apparently you need to be a friend to the woman you have romantic feelings for after she rejected you, even if it kills you slowly from the inside, otherwise you are a sexist who only sees women as sex objects.

 

[pashmilla]

You keep citing that place on Reddit. It's like going to the shittiest bar in town and using the people there as an example of models of behaviour

Sure they absolutely exist and by all means use them in a considered way, but it's like someone extrapolating posts on Mumsnet and coming up with broad definitions and opinions about the bitchiness, cynicism and neurosis within women.

Okay but that's like... the origin of the friendzone. It's kind of inextricably linked with the "nice guy" concept.

Also Mumsnet is a friendly and welcoming place overall.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

apparently you need to be a friend to the woman you have romantic feelings for after she rejected you, even if it kills you slowly from the inside, otherwise you are a sexist who only sees women as sex objects.

This isn't anything anyone has said.

 

[blame space]

i gotta check out mumsnet.

 

[HawksWinStanley]

It comes from places like theredpill on reddit where guys are constantly crying that they got friendzoned by a slut who should be grateful to blow a nice guy like them

Then they're using the term wrong.

 

[chrizzz09]

It's not even hard look at life. It's just changing your dating strategy.

Guys get so caught up with this stuff, forgetting that it's not a fatal position.

You make the mistake, learn, and grow.

But we wanna flog a dead horse. So much of dating talk centers on people having these unchanging outcomes. That's a myth.

Y'all make it sound like some dating mistakes are these huge catastrophes. They're not.

Well I imagine most guys who complain about the friend zone, are also the ones who keep on saying to themselves "She was the ONE! I'm never going to find someone like her again!", while at the same time subconsciously forgetting about the other girl in high school which, at that time, they deemed to be "the ONE", too.

 

[Kor of Memory]

Okay but that's like... the origin of the friendzone. It's kind of inextricably linked with the "nice guy" concept.

Also Mumsnet is a friendly and welcoming place overall.

It definitely isn't.

 

[kirblar]

Not quite sure how this relates to my post, but you're absolutely right

I think I quoted the wrong post, sorry about that!

 

[liquidtmd]

Okay but that's like... the origin of the friendzone. It's kind of inextricably linked with the "nice guy" concept.

Also Mumsnet is a friendly and welcoming place overall.

Touche. I know what you mean here about the origins of what is widely meant definition of friendzone on the net and agree, it can bring out some oddballs but I find the ones who really take it to extremes wouldn't be a nice / stable person regardless of gender issues

Agree to differ on Mumsnet but then again i don't have an account and dont live on there like I do here

Spoiler

I swear!

I've seen threads on Mumsnet with posters literally advocating shagging another man to get pregnant and not being exactly truthful but that's for another time and thread.

 

[Jeronimo Jones]

Doesn't exist, I've hooked up with enough girls after being in that "friend zone" to know it's bullshit.


If someone is physically attracted to you, they're not going to lose it just because you didn't make a move within a certain time period you get stuck in an invisible anti-sex force field

For your second point, most people are saying the opportunity is missed because stuff happens... maybe another person catches their eye or asks them out and it takes off from there, or they think you're not interested because you don't communicate well enough, so they move on.

 

[Whales]

The "friend zone" is basically what happens when your window of opportunity for a romantic and/or sexual relationship closes.

yeah but what do you say if that window was never open in the first place?

that's what i'd call the friend-zone tbh

 

[Puck Beaverton]

For your second point, most people are saying the opportunity is missed because stuff happens... maybe another person catches their eye or asks them out and it takes off from there, or they think you're not interested because you don't communicate well enough, so they move on.

Springsteen's post is true in terms of just physical attractiveness.

If they wanna bone you now, they would want to bone you at a later date, unless you become less hot in that period.

 

[vordhosbn]

It's just another word for unrequited love. Also you can't be friendzoned, but you can put yourself in one.

 

[One Eyed Willy]

More accurately called the coward zone.

 

[Fudgepuppy]

apparently you need to be a friend to the woman you have romantic feelings for after she rejected you, even if it kills you slowly from the inside, otherwise you are a sexist who only sees women as sex objects.

Well if you "faked" being her friend beforehand, you can only really blame yourself.

I've befriended lots of girls that I have temporarily distanced myself from after being rejected. In 85% of the cases though, we've become really good friends after that.

I just can't 100% accept the concept that there's countdown timer for the "clicking"-moment to be possible. My best friend and his girlfriend were best friends for like 9 months before anything happened, and now they're essentially the best and most happy couple I've ever known.

 

[Airola]

Okay but that's like... the origin of the friendzone. It's kind of inextricably linked with the "nice guy" concept.

No it's not the origin of friend zone. I remember hearing about being friend zoned without any of that "she should blow me and not them" bullshit some assholes are saying.

It's like there are two types of this "meme" going on. One is an actual way to explain a certain situation and one is the "jokey" meme type where others are using "friend zone" to bash women and others are using that as a sign of assholes - both using it in a meme'ish way. But the "memeless" version exists too.

 

[Kinyou]

I find it a pretty natural concept that probably happens often to both genders. Only through the internet it ended up getting twisted by putting the onus on the person thats being desired, making them the "bad one", while it should be exactly the other way around. If you're in the friend zone you only have yourself to blame.

 

[Omegasquash]

The girls that "friend zoned" me were the ones that I didn't have the courage to ask out. The ones that didn't, I asked out. Didn't feel like wasting time on someone who I was interested in romantically/physically.

Looking back, I see friendship as something that happens organically between friend compatible people. Dating, not so much. You should probably be compatible as friends if you're dating, but just because you're friends doesn't mean that you'll date.

So go ask someone out. If they're not interested, don't pursue it. No more "friend zone".

 

[Crimson_Echidna]

Do I believe in it? You mean do I believe that if someone's intentions are not made known at some point the other person in an undefined relationship may "move on" assuming they were ever romantically interested? Yes, and it can happen regardless of either party's sex.

This.

The "Friend-Zone" goes beyond "dude who thinks he is entitled to sex."

 

[Jeronimo Jones]

Springsteen's post is true in terms of just physical attractiveness.

If they wanna bone you now, they would want to bone you at a later date, unless you become less hot in that period.

Yeah but in the real world, if they are in a relationship or whatever at that point, not everyone is willing to ignore that fact. Opportunity missed.