Count Dookkake
Member
How does one pretend like they might like you?
And if they are doing that, it seems pretty easy to test. Just make a move.
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Let's talk about the friend zone
- Thread starter Fudgepuppy
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How does one pretend like they might like you?
And if they are doing that, it seems pretty easy to test. Just make a move.
Raven117
Member
Kinda this. Attraction isn't math. Its not "i do all these nice things for her....she should like me romantically." Just doesn't work that way.
Soon as one realizes this, sooner one can (1) not objectify in this way as thinking about these things as transactions; (2) start to understand how YOU interact with women on a more natural basis; and (3) start enjoying the company of women in a romantic sense.
Too many people in this thread are conflating or equating "Nice Guy Syndrome" and "The Friend Zone" and nobody wants to back down. They're related, but ultimately separate concepts and should be treated as such.
Friend Zone: Person one is interested in person two either romantically or sexually, but the feeling is not mutual. Then, either person two explicitly tells person one that they aren't interested in them like that, or person one assumes (rightly or wrongly) that person two does not share their interest. At that point, person one is in The Friend Zone - a state in which the only relationship option available to them with person two is friendship. Whether person one stays friends with person two or decides not to is irrelevant.
Nice Guy Syndrome: Person one is only friends with and only does nice things for person two in order to court favor with them, with the ultimate goal being sexual reward.
Neither of these concepts are exclusive to gender or sexual orientation.
LordKasual
Banned
Anyone who thinks the Friend Zone doesn't exist is either stuck in it or delusional.
And the friend zone doesn't always have to do with sex. That's just the main issue for guys who are socially oblivious.
And the friend zone doesn't always have to do with sex. That's just the main issue for guys who are socially oblivious.
I agree but I also don't think that always applies.
I had girls in high school bluntly say that after a week or two of knowing a guy, they discard them as relationship material and put them in the friend zone. Their feelings for a crush literally warp based off that period. Had nothing to do with the guy itself, so they say. They just figured if he hadn't wanted to date within that first week or two of meeting, that it wasn't of interest to the situation and it was now disqualified. Which I think is a pitifully shallow rule for dating, but whatever. Not everyone is like that anyway, and high school is a pitiful standard for dating. I remember being frustrated by that because I wanted to know someone for more than 1-2 weeks before dating, but that kind of attitude was rampant at my school.
In this circumstance, if there are no expectations or ulterior motives from the first party, then why not just call it being friends with someone?
People take umbrage with the term friendzone because it's usually used to describe something a disgruntled person is upset about, whereas level headed and rational people know better than to complain about someone not being interested in you.
There have been guys I thought were cute who turned out to be a bad fit romantically, and it took hanging out with them for a couple weeks to see that. In light of that, I only ever date people after I've known them for a few weeks at least. I think that's the opposite of shallow.
JinjoUnchained
Member
It can happen if the person being manipulated in this situation lacks self confidence or is afraid to express themselves. There are a lot of people with avoidant personalities.
And faking an interest or leading someone on is easy to do. A little light contact, innocuous compliments, displaying some secondary sex characteristics; manipulative people know how to turn that stuff on and off when they need to.
Takes two to tango, of course. A lonely person without confidence and a manipulative person who wants something from the former. Call that scenario what you want, it's what I think of as the so-called "friend zone".
It's different from just being friends with someone because the first party had romantic or sexual feelings towards the second, and the second party did not. Note that their friendship status is not established at that point. They could be friends, acquaintances or even strangers meeting for the first time. That's not the important part, yet it's one of two parts that everyone seems to be getting hung up on (the other part being what happens after person one ends up in The Friend Zone).
The Friend Zone itself is the state when person one understands (or even mistakenly thinks) that person two does not share their romantic or sexual feelings, and that the only option of a direct relationship between them is one that does not involve romance or sex. Motivations, expectations, results and reactions are completely inconsequential. That's when you get into Nice Guy Syndrome and other archetypes that we haven't really even brought up.
Count Dookkake
Member
I'm gonna call bullshit on that.
That's just being friendly or light flirting. Nothing inherently manipulative about it.
It's up to the recipient to find out if it means more.
JinjoUnchained
Member
Not everyone is the well-spoken, alpha, social butterfly that you purport to be. Some people have trouble speaking up for themselves or are otherwise really shy. Are you "calling bullshit" on that fact?
Coming to this thread a little late but, personally, every relationship I've ever had I started as friends and in my experience 95% (maybe higher) of people that think they're being "friendzoned" actually aren't. Surely if you were genuine about wanting to be in a relationship, getting up to 'friend status' with someone would be your first priority.
Regardless, the biggest problem I have with the term is that it makes an assumption about how the other person is viewing the scenario/friendship but that's the biggest mystery about relationships; it's all about figuring out the other person, how they work and becoming comfortable and open with them so to make an assumption about them designating you as a 'friend and no more than that EVER', is more than little bit unfair.
...but don't let that stop entitled people from telling you they deserve more than they're getting from a prospective partner.
Regardless, the biggest problem I have with the term is that it makes an assumption about how the other person is viewing the scenario/friendship but that's the biggest mystery about relationships; it's all about figuring out the other person, how they work and becoming comfortable and open with them so to make an assumption about them designating you as a 'friend and no more than that EVER', is more than little bit unfair.
...but don't let that stop entitled people from telling you they deserve more than they're getting from a prospective partner.
Count Dookkake
Member
Where have I purported that?
-10 points for attempted ad hominem.
I haven't denied that some people are shy.
-10 points for attempted strawman.
What I am looking for is evidence of these manipulators of which you speak. So far, all you've done is list some friendly/flirty behaviors and suggested manipulative motive behind them.
I definitely feel like I fit in some of the definitions of friend zone. I put myself in it because I'm afraid of rejection and I'm trying to be the friendly guy hoping that helps. It's not even just that. I consider us to be fairly good friends. We work together in this student worker job on campus, and we're both Orientation Leaders for the upcoming summer.
Those three reasons, on top of rejection, are why I'm really holding back on this. I was told by a friend a while back to hold off and use this time as OLs to get to know her and give her time from a relationship she had gotten out of prior. It's been awhile and I'm eager but nervous. I've never really had good luck in these situations and I honestly don't know what to do just in general when it comes to girls which I guess is another reason to all of this.
Basically, I don't want to fuck anything up. I don't want to mess up the friendship and therefore the work relationship we have by bringing something up or just being awkward while trying to bring it up. Or it just not working out down the road thus ruining it.
Those three reasons, on top of rejection, are why I'm really holding back on this. I was told by a friend a while back to hold off and use this time as OLs to get to know her and give her time from a relationship she had gotten out of prior. It's been awhile and I'm eager but nervous. I've never really had good luck in these situations and I honestly don't know what to do just in general when it comes to girls which I guess is another reason to all of this.
Basically, I don't want to fuck anything up. I don't want to mess up the friendship and therefore the work relationship we have by bringing something up or just being awkward while trying to bring it up. Or it just not working out down the road thus ruining it.
The Silver
Member
Well you aren't actually in the friend zone here as you haven't said anything to her yet, that kind of thinking is all in your head, right now you're just friends and you have feelings, no zoning yet. Now if you do say something and she says something along the lines of the ol "just be friends" cliche then yes you would "BE" friend zoned. Now whether you continue to exist in that "friend zone"after that would be up to you.
ZackieChan
Member
I believe the bolded is the Crux of where we disagree. I know plenty of friendzoned dudes and have been one, whose thinking is that they show their value as a friend and be there for the girl when the "assholes" dump them, that the girl will find them romantically attractive. Not that they will be obligated.
Edit: obviously both ways exist, but it's odd that some are so adamant to make it all about sexism and obligation.
This, but you can actually put yourself in The Friend Zone if you end up believing that she has no interest without clarification and just let yourself forever. Same place, different path.
AntraxSuicide
Banned
This is a good reply, and is my overall point.
To be more specific in places, it sounds like if the person you rejected "wasn't holding out for a relationship" then that means they accepted your rejection and are friends anyway. That's good.
If they were your friend in the hopes that you'd change your mind later, that's bad. That's just "if I hang around here for awhile, he/she'll eventually see my side of this."
edit: I mean, treat this like a Bioware dialogue tree. You should always just explain your feelings, and if those feelings are unrequited, then you've got 3 options:
1) You can live with that and still be around so you say "I totally understand, we're still good friends and can stay as friends."
2) You can't live with that because your feelings are too strong so you say "I totally understand, but since I don't think I can handle a close friendship with you and these feelings then I don't think we can keep hanging out."
3) You can't live with that because your feelings are too strong so you say "I totally understand, we're still good friends and can stay as friends." (Lie)
Option 3 is the one that gets you Dark Side points here. You are objectively lying to this person from the minute you continue to be friends while expecting you to be more than that in the future. You are hiding your motives in sticking around. This is not cute, it's manipulation.
To be perfectly frank, this isn't really an excuse. Saying you're shy is one thing, and can cause you to not open up for a little bit about your feelings. But if you're stringing someone along in a relationship that they think is a friendship but is actually you just trying to get something out of them (romance, sex, money, etc... it doesn't matter), then you're manipulating them and betraying their trust. They believe you to be a friend, not that you're after something.
People like excuses. They help us when we're in a bad spot. But if you told me after a long enough friendship that you were actually just waiting for me to do *insert here* the whole time, I would be pissed. Saying you were just shy the whole time isn't going to get you far with me.
Spladam
Member
Friend. Is. A four. Letter. Word. -Cake
Lol
Not at all, it's in refference to situations where there is no rejection at all, things are going great, you're laughing and having a good time, she calls you a lot and what not, but there is no romantic involvement. You've become good friends, but you want more than that. Meanwhile she starts banging the dude-bro that ignores her, lol.
Its a way of describing when you wait too long to act on a possible romantic interest. It's definitely a desirable trait to act on your feelings instead of dragging your feet. so I would understand If a person wouldn't want to be with someone who doesn't show initiative.
But ya I've seen people use the term for others who don't want to sleep with them, and that's not cool.
But ya I've seen people use the term for others who don't want to sleep with them, and that's not cool.
Are we not allowed to have close guy friends we're not interested in sexually? Please
blame space
Banned
who even has friends it's 2017
Gotdatmoney
Member
My issue with the friend zone is you don't even have to be friends. A friendship requires a mutual understanding on both parties. It jas to actually benefit and be wanted by both parties like any relationship. If you want more than friendship and they are not interested then you can decide "okay I wanna just be their friend" or "fuck this I'm out". Both of these are totally valid.
If you stick around no one has put you in a zone you can't remove yourself from. If the person will only ever see you as a friend you have the ability to just be like "naw, I'm out"
If you stick around no one has put you in a zone you can't remove yourself from. If the person will only ever see you as a friend you have the ability to just be like "naw, I'm out"
Spladam
Member
In no way did I imply that women are not allowed to have close guy friends that they are not interested in, as with the other way around. I don't know how you arrived at that implication from what I stated. I have two very close female friends, one that I talk to almost every night, and my girl friend is cool with that.
I was just defining the terminology of the expression. I've been on the opposite side of the equation, with a good friend that wanted it to be more, but I was interested in somebody else, it happens to females as well. There is no ill intent, just that sometimes the other party wants things to be romantic. There is no reason to be cynical here.
Well if we're allowed to have close platonic friends and we're allowed to date "dude-bros" then I don't see what the problem is.
blame space
Banned
this is definitely going somewhere
Puck Beaverton
Banned
You never see a depressed dudebro.
BlueTsunami
there is joy in sucking dick
Horse Detective
Why the long case?
I hope I never get to a point where I have such a hard time with someone not finding me attractive, that my only coping mechanism is label the "phenomenon".
I don't think the friend zone places obligation on women, but it does imply they are just choosing to not find you suitable.
I don't think the friend zone places obligation on women, but it does imply they are just choosing to not find you suitable.
Abstrusity
Member
There is certainly, a "Friendzone," but the negativity applied to it, as if it's bad to be friends with someone of the opposite sex -- as if your friendship was all based on what the 'friendzoned' person thought was implied sex eventually.
It's a social issue, that views women primarily as prey, and men as predator. One where it's the man's responsibility to 'win her over,' but the woman has no real say in the matter, only a slave to some instinct.
It's not fair to the 'friendzoner' or the 'friendzoned.' I would make the argument that it's accepted in these people as a given, that if you play your cards right, /someone/ will love you like that. It's been enforced via media and the people around them. So when they get 'friendzoned,' they take it as an affront, an offense, to them, specifically.
So they'll turn around and put the blame on everyone else. "It's the women that's the problem, guys! The women who wouldn't respond as you wanted to (because how dare they have their own decisions), the women!!"
It is at that point where it can go a few ways. They ,might double down, especially in communities with people like them. They might go introspective and change who they a re as a person, chalk up the friendship they likely lost as a mistake, and grow as a person.
Personally, I think anyone who talks about the friendzone needs an earnest, frank discussion with the sole intent of sparking introspection, and anyone incapable of that introspection should be written off. Suffice it to say, I'm pretty sure those people make up the bulk of the misogynistic stuff going around the internet. A perfect storm of media and social pressure, plus communities where they never HAVE to think about what exactly happened, that aren't tied down to localities(that would make it hard to find people who feel the same way).
It's a social issue, that views women primarily as prey, and men as predator. One where it's the man's responsibility to 'win her over,' but the woman has no real say in the matter, only a slave to some instinct.
It's not fair to the 'friendzoner' or the 'friendzoned.' I would make the argument that it's accepted in these people as a given, that if you play your cards right, /someone/ will love you like that. It's been enforced via media and the people around them. So when they get 'friendzoned,' they take it as an affront, an offense, to them, specifically.
So they'll turn around and put the blame on everyone else. "It's the women that's the problem, guys! The women who wouldn't respond as you wanted to (because how dare they have their own decisions), the women!!"
It is at that point where it can go a few ways. They ,might double down, especially in communities with people like them. They might go introspective and change who they a re as a person, chalk up the friendship they likely lost as a mistake, and grow as a person.
Personally, I think anyone who talks about the friendzone needs an earnest, frank discussion with the sole intent of sparking introspection, and anyone incapable of that introspection should be written off. Suffice it to say, I'm pretty sure those people make up the bulk of the misogynistic stuff going around the internet. A perfect storm of media and social pressure, plus communities where they never HAVE to think about what exactly happened, that aren't tied down to localities(that would make it hard to find people who feel the same way).
HarryKS
Member
True.
Spladam
Member
I think you would see this differently if you had been accused of friendzoning someone in the past or otherwise had the term weaponized against you. You might not mean it to put fault on anyone but certainly that is the common usage of it.
Spladam
Member
I see your point, and I can empathize. I've been in your situation but did not have the term used against me, I just lost a friend instead.
Strangelove77
Member
I'm really late to this so it's probably already been said, but I always thought the "friend zone" was a construct that helps people who were too spineless to be direct in their intentions with the other person and so they end up as friends while the other person is still infatuated the entire time in hopes that they can still win them over by spending time together and seeing that they're someone worth being with/fucking.
The other "friend zone" being people who feel they "deserve" sex or a relationship with the other person because of all the time and effort they've put into pleasing the other person. Like they feel they earned it.
Both are fucked up. Personally, I reject the entire thing. It's pathetic and devious to have either mindset. You fucked up, move on.
The other "friend zone" being people who feel they "deserve" sex or a relationship with the other person because of all the time and effort they've put into pleasing the other person. Like they feel they earned it.
Both are fucked up. Personally, I reject the entire thing. It's pathetic and devious to have either mindset. You fucked up, move on.
blame space
Banned
have you guys ever had feelings for people or things that have perhaps changed over time
Eyyyyyy buddy. I agree, you said it better than I did.
Dude, it's people venting after getting their feelings hurt when the are rejected. It's no different when a scorned woman says "All men are pigs/jerks". Are they sexist, no just hurt.
You also ignore the MANY times women/men get strung along on purpose. It's usually obvious to everyone when a person is going the friend route but really wants more. I have pointed it out to a few women and they are aware but like the attention. Dating is a weird game.
Gotdatmoney
Member
What is the definition of stringing someone along?
blame space
Banned
not answering my phone calls
not responding to my text messages
ignoring me when i show up at her work
not responding to my text messages
ignoring me when i show up at her work
Strangelove77
Member
Following her to her car
blame space
Banned
ok now I'm uncomfortable with the jokes i would never make light of people in danger
People taking advantage of others due to them using flirting/advances when not interested: drinks at a bar, dinner dates, shit like that.
Not sure what this has to do with friend zone, just answering your question
Strangelove77
Member
Id say showing up at someone's work to be crossing the line into feeling in danger.
That was funny, I laughed
Gotdatmoney
Member
Lotta people say they got strung along. A lot of the time I don't really think they did. So I wanna know what you mean to consider being strung along.
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