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[Orayn]

I've developed my 60% plan a little further:

65g (Or maybe 67g) Zealios
GH60 PCB
White/gray G20 dye sub keycaps

Just need a case now.

Also, what should I take away from this bit on the Zeal site?

The Plate Mounted 65g Zealio offered here is recommended for first time builders that are afraid of over-heating the pin and deforming the transparent plastic housing, which could result in a defective Zealio. The milky bottom helps prevent deformation and is more heat resistant than transparent plastic. Plate mounted Zealio are also an option for customers that do not want to spend the time to clip the PCB mounted legs off when installing into off-the-shelf keyboards

This would be my first build from scratch, what are the downsides of the PCB mount versions again?

 

[pmj]

Got my ErgoDox.

So soldering is hard, huh? I have a sinking feeling that this keyboard is going to become a very expensive mistake.

Also the metal plate is garbage. You can bend it using very little force. In fact, it came slightly bent and I had to bend it back for the switch pins to line up properly with the holes on the board. A single angry fist smash is likely to instantly kill it.

I don't feel too good about this right now. I might just shelf the project and come back to it after having built a couple of those electronic DIY kits.

 

[Teknopathetic]

"So soldering is hard, huh? I have a sinking feeling that this keyboard is going to become a very expensive mistake."

Soldering is *not* difficult. The main thing, especially if you're new to it, is to simply take your time and not overdo anything. You don't need a giant glob, you only need just enough solder to make contact between the pins on the switches and the contact on the pcb. What problems are you running into?

 

[Astral/H3X]

Got my ErgoDox.

So soldering is hard, huh? I have a sinking feeling that this keyboard is going to become a very expensive mistake.

Also the metal plate is garbage. You can bend it using very little force. In fact, it came slightly bent and I had to bend it back for the switch pins to line up properly with the holes on the board. A single angry fist smash is likely to instantly kill it.

I don't feel too good about this right now. I might just shelf the project and come back to it after having built a couple of those electronic DIY kits.

The metal plate isn't some load bearing equipment. My Ergodox is very solid once it's, you know, actually assembled. You're talking about a very small part of the keyboard.

My Ergodox was my first real soldering "project" outside of a few small solders here and there. And I even put LEDs on mine (okay that part maybe a little tough).
Just go slow, make sure to heat the pins and the contacts on both the switches and the board itself, and then the solder should just "pool" into it, completely filling the holes on the board and the pins from the switch. Outside of the extra 2 seconds of waiting, this is not only easier than trying to just have a small dab bringing the gap from board contact to pin, but also more reliable.

I did my right hand side first, and ended up just putting small beads of solder that just touched the pin and the contact, and then while building the left hand side I noticed that heating the contacts up allowed me to just pool it, and so my left hand side was done that way. I ended up having a few flaky keys on my right hand side so I redid it by pooling the solder, and now its rock steady on all keys.

It'll take you a few hours, but the board is a tank once it's done. Don't worry about being able to bend the metal board atm.

 

[pmj]

I had practiced before on a small project board I found, by sticking wires through the holes and soldering them. I did a whole bunch and it seemed easy enough.

Working on the ErgoDox board was another thing entirely. First off, the switch pins are small and sit in holes that are much larger, large enough that I feared solder might drip down into the switch if I messed up. It's possible that this isn't how physics work. But it worries me all the same.

Second, approaching at an angle and having the tip of the iron close to the board actually damaged it. I now have light blue marks on the deeper blue color of the board. I think the lesson here is to be very quick and approach with the tip as straight down as possible, so as to get as much separation of tip and board as possible. If that is even is possible. Maybe I just need to be fast.

I plugged the board in and the two soldered buttons work so it's possible that the was no damage aside from discoloration. Or other buttons might not work once the whole board is done.

I don't feel comfortable touching it again until I've done more testing.

 

[Teknopathetic]

You don't need to worry about solder falling through the hole, it won't. It'll cling to the switch pins and the contact pad on the pcb.

Having the iron close to the board might cause some discoloration to the film in some cases, but it shouldn't really harm anything and if anything it's a sign that your soldering iron might be too hot.

But yeah, if it'll make you feel more comfortable, find a really small and cheap project mechanical keybooard (like a 20$ mechanical numpad) to work on before diving back into your ergodox.

 

[Koren]

So soldering is hard, huh?

As it has been said, it's not, especially not at those sizes. Barely more difficult that glueing.

Maybe practice it a bit on something that isn't expensive/critical so you feel at ease (although I can't see what could be damaged in a keyboard). I started soldering at 9, IIRC.



Well, to be honest, I think there's a hard part in soldering now: finding the right solder. Since the RoHS, leaded solder is not the default anymore, and I still haven't found anything to replace 63/37.

In fact, I still use a lot of 63/37, and I'd recommand it. I even believe that flux is usually worse than lead, anyway, so I don't really see why I would go lead-free for home projects as long as I can find 63/37.

Desoldering may be a bit trickier without the right tools...

 

[Tahnit]

Got my first mechanical keyboard recently. The Razer Blackwidow chroma. I will never ever go to a membrane keyboard again. It is a joy to type on and feels so good. The lighting is nice as well as some games can show health bars/ability cooldowns on the actual keys which is neat.

Love this keyboard.

 

[pmj]

All right, thanks for the advice. It's good to know that I probably only discolored a film on the board and not the board itself. I will lower the temperature a bit.

My solder says 60/40 so I think I'm good there. My iron is probably shit though. I bought it for like 10 bucks a decade ago.

 

[Koren]

My solder says 60/40 so I think I'm good there. My iron is probably shit though. I bought it for like 10 bucks a decade ago.

60/40 is leaded, you'll be fine. This kind of solder works at lower temperature, so yes, you can probably use a lower setting.

And you'll be fine even with an awful iron with 60/40. It's lead-free that require precise temperatures.

 

[Deleted member 22576]

All right, thanks for the advice. It's good to know that I probably only discolored a film on the board and not the board itself. I will lower the temperature a bit.

My solder says 60/40 so I think I'm good there. My iron is probably shit though. I bought it for like 10 bucks a decade ago.

Good luck! As stated above soldering isn't as scary as it seems. When I did it I ended up being able to rub some of the discoloration away with a fine pointed eraser since it was basically just like smoke marks. Not sure if that helps.

 

[pmj]

Right side of my ErgoDox is done. I'm not happy with all of the solder work, but every key works. Working from the top and let the solder flow down made things a lot easier.

My main worry now is getting used to browns. I really miss the click of the blues. And the supplied keycaps have to be replaced at some point. I didn't think I was a snob, but these are cheap feeling and cheap looking. Some came pre-scrathed out of the bag.

I'll do the left tomorrow.

 

[sixteen-bit]

what do y'all think of that Das on Massdrop with MX clears?

 

[pmj]

what do y'all think of that Das on Massdrop with MX clears?

My current keyboard is a Das 4 Pro with blues and it has served me well for a couple of years. The volume control is really nice and it's the main feature I think I'll miss on my new ErgoDox. It's quick and easy to find, even in the dark, and really satisfying to use. I also like that it's simple and clean; no gamer bullshit. And it's sturdy and has survived plenty of abuse.

It has a button to put the computer to sleep located next to the media keys that I have pressed by mistake a few times. So that's bad. If this isn't a feature you use a lot, I'd disable the shortcut on an OS level. The lights on it are also annoyingly bright, blindingly so if you look straight into them. Other than that I'm not sure if there is much to talk about.

How do you feel about clears? I've never used them myself.

 

[Blitzhex]

Anyone have experience with the wireless Varmilos/Leopolds in terms of key skipping and input lagt? I have a wired 10keyless varmilo and I love it. I want to get another one, but with bluetooth this time.

 

[Hazardous Metal]

I picked up the Corsair K70 RAPIDFIRE a couple months ago and it's been pure bliss. The keys are so fast and responsive, and I barely miss having the tactile bump that my old Razer Blackwidow Chroma had. The hollow feel and sound is actually nice after you get used to it. I have mobility issues in my left pinky and ring finger, which led to some frustrating situations in Overwatch where I wouldn't have enough force to use an ability. Now that issue is a thing of the past.

 

[pmj]

All done soldering and assembling the ErgoDox. It works.

At the end of it I was left with four sets of screws and two switches, perhaps to compensate for them only giving me three feet to split across the two halves of the keyboard.

Now to learn to type on this thing.

 

[Koren]

All done soldering and assembling the ErgoDox. It works.

Great job...

perhaps to compensate for them only giving me three feet to split across the two halves of the keyboard.

lol... I can see them putting a couple of spares if it's cheap, to avoid dealing with people whose missing one thing (kinda like Lego put spares for small pieces because it's cheap and it's difficult to check there's not missing anything with weight alone) But missing parts is unfortunate, even if feet are easy to source.

Now to learn to type on this thing.

Are you going for a classic layout, qwerty-inspired, or are you using the change to use a completely different layout?

I decided to completely ditch common layout, so it took me some time to remember were some unusual keys where (I'm still not always at ease, because I spent too much time on my laptop and I don't want to take the dox everywhere with me... it's especially not practical in trains) but if I went for normal layout, I'm pretty sure I would have settled quickly...

 

[pmj]

Are you going for a classic layout, qwerty-inspired, or are you using the change to use a completely different layout?

I decided to completely ditch common layout, so it took me some time to remember were some unusual keys where (I'm still not always at ease, because I spent too much time on my laptop and I don't want to take the dox everywhere with me... it's especially not practical in trains) but if I went for normal layout, I'm pretty sure I would have settled quickly...

As I'm typing this I'm still on the default firmware, everything is standard except that I use Colemak.

My original plan was to not mess with firmware and instead modify the layout in the OS. I'm no longer sure that this is possible as there aren't enough keys to fit all standard functionality necessary to me without using layers. Media controls and my Swedish characters (neither of which I can find) seem like the biggest issues.

It took me about 10 minutes to type this post and I closed the browser once by mistake in the process. And now I thought about reworking this sentence but that's not going to happen.

 

[Sinistral]

I'm looking to replace my Razer Blackwidow Ultimate that I've been using for over 5+ years. What are some good recommendations? I know nothing. I don't have many preferences but numpad needs to be there. I would like a quieter mechanical keyboard if possible but have become used to the audible click, maybe one not so loud?. I never used macro keys or media keys on the Blackwidow so those aren't needed. Thanks!

 

[Tripon]

I'm looking to replace my Razer Blackwidow Ultimate that I've been using for over 5+ years. What are some good recommendations? I know nothing. I don't have many preferences but numpad needs to be there. I would like a quieter mechanical keyboard if possible but have become used to the audible click, maybe one not so loud?. I never used macro keys or media keys on the Blackwidow so those aren't needed. Thanks!

What switches do you have? If you want a click without the noise, try brown switches.

 

[Sinistral]

What switches do you have? If you want a click without the noise, try brown switches.

I think the original ultimate had Cherry MX? I'll look more into browns. Any impressions on Corsair STRAFE with the Cherry MX silent switches?

 

[Orayn]

The MX Silent is a linear switch, so it's going to feel very different from what you're used to. It's basically like pressing in a spring, no click or tactile bump.

If you want to be a high roller, you could look into a full sized Topre board. They make a moderate to low amount of noise with great feedback.

 

[Celcius]

All done soldering and assembling the ErgoDox. It works.

At the end of it I was left with four sets of screws and two switches, perhaps to compensate for them only giving me three feet to split across the two halves of the keyboard.

Now to learn to type on this thing.

Well done, post a pic

 

[LilJoka]

Anyone have experience with the wireless Varmilos/Leopolds in terms of key skipping and input lagt? I have a wired 10keyless varmilo and I love it. I want to get another one, but with bluetooth this time.

I have the Varmilo Bluetooth. There is no skipping of keys ever or any lag. It is perfect.

 

[pmj]

Well done, post a pic

I'll try. Not sure what image host to use anymore, going with imgur.

This the soldering that I felt bad about. But then I saw someone on Massdrop asking for help with his broken ErgoDox. It looked like he had been using a flamethrower on it. Now I don't feel so bad anymore.

And here is the finished result. I need to put some colored paper under the top acrylic layer, because it sure is reflective.

 

[LucidMomentum]

Just got a Filco Majestouch 2 with Cherry MX Browns for the office.

God it feels so much better than the shit default keyboard we were given.

I'll try. Not sure what image host to use anymore, going with imgur.

This the soldering that I felt bad about. But then I saw someone on Massdrop asking for help with his broken ErgoDox. It looked like he had been using a flamethrower on it. Now I don't feel so bad anymore.

If you want, I'd go back and add a tad bit more solder to each of those connections. Looks like you're only connecting to half of the "pad" space. Shouldn't be a big deal but if you want to tidy it up you could do that. If the solder is keeping the keys in place you should be fine

The first three right side connections on the top right side look good to me, the others should be similar to that IMO.

 

[pmj]

If you want, I'd go back and add a tad bit more solder to each of those connections. Looks like you're only connecting to half of the "pad" space. Shouldn't be a big deal but if you want to tidy it up you could do that. If the solder is keeping the keys in place you should be fine

The first three right side connections on the top right side look good to me, the others should be similar to that IMO.

Well, the pads are more like big holes and solder would sometimes disappear at an alarming rate, down the hole I assume. I worry about what the board looks on the other side. But should keys start getting flaky, I'll try to redo it.

 

[Teknopathetic]

Nah, using half the pad is what you should be doing. The holes for the switch pins are extra large to accommodate both MX and matias/ALPS switches.

 

[pmj]

In that case I'll definitely leave it alone unless something stops working.

 

[Deleted member 22576]

I feel like those things are super cyborgish. I've never tried one. Looks good! Way to go!!

 

[Astral/H3X]

I'll try. Not sure what image host to use anymore, going with imgur.

This the soldering that I felt bad about. But then I saw someone on Massdrop asking for help with his broken ErgoDox. It looked like he had been using a flamethrower on it. Now I don't feel so bad anymore.

And here is the finished result. I need to put some colored paper under the top acrylic layer, because it sure is reflective.

My initial soldering looked like this, but I found that a few of my keys didn't work exactly reliably, so I went and used the soldering iron (Around 400 IIRC?) to heat up both the contact hole and the pin, and then when I would apply the solder to the contact hole, it pooled all around it, making a much cleaner, solid connection as such:

Much improved. I could tell when it was hot enough, because the solder would totally change color to a very shiny aluminum sheen as it filled the contact hole.

 

[Risette]

Anyone here used a regular HHKB2 and a Type-S? How does the Type-S feel, other than being quieter?

I'm ready to jump into Topre, but idk which to get. I read some things that the Type-S sliders feel scratchy so I dunno how to feel about that.

 

[Wallach]

Anyone here used a regular HHKB2 and a Type-S? How does the Type-S feel, other than being quieter?

I'm ready to jump into Topre, but idk which to get. I read some things that the Type-S sliders feel scratchy so I dunno how to feel about that.

I'm typing on a HHKBP2 right now and have used a Type-S.

The Type-S has a shorter keystroke. I'm not as crazy about the landing either. Also, I would never want to silence a Topre anyway. They sound great, especially the HHKBP2. It's not like they sound like MX Blues or anything, I don't think you're as likely to bother people since the pitch is naturally lower. I'd actually probably still say the HHKBP2 is my favorite sounding keyboard.

 

[Risette]

I'm typing on a HHKBP2 right now and have used a Type-S.

The Type-S has a shorter keystroke. I'm not as crazy about the landing either. Also, I would never want to silence a Topre anyway. They sound great, especially the HHKBP2. It's not like they sound like MX Blues or anything, I don't think you're as likely to bother people since the pitch is naturally lower. I'd actually probably still say the HHKBP2 is my favorite sounding keyboard.

Thanks for the reply. I think I'll go for the vanilla then, since I value some degree of audible feedback for typing (plus I've heard a lot about the signature Topre "thock") and don't want to mess with the key feel too much.

I do plan on taking it to class which is why I considered the Type-S but my classes aren't particularly quiet and the sound isn't piercing like MX blues so it should be okay unsilenced.

 

[vocab]

Damn, my keyboard is barely a year old and a few keycaps already can be removed without a tool. Super disappointed.

 

[Wallach]

Thanks for the reply. I think I'll go for the vanilla then, since I value some degree of audible feedback for typing (plus I've heard a lot about the signature Topre "thock") and don't want to mess with the key feel too much.

I do plan on taking it to class which is why I considered the Type-S but my classes aren't particularly quiet and the sound isn't piercing like MX blues so it should be okay unsilenced.

You can always landing mod your HHKBP2 if you do find that it is a little loud for your classroom somehow. It's pretty much the same effect as the Type-S. More work, obviously, especially if you've never modded a keyboard before, but worth it over trying to undo the Type-S modification if you don't like the sound or feel of it.

Other folks have said that they can't tell a difference in feel between the Type-S and the normal HHKBP2 to be fair, so YMMV. I know they do extend the stem slightly on the Type-S to mitigate the modification. Messing with the sound was a pretty big offense to me with that particular keyboard.

I should also say I don't use my keyboards with any real regard for sound level in the context of other people (my work is all done in a personal office) so I'd feel a bit bad if you got it and found it was too loud for classroom use... is there any chance you can try one of these somewhere?

Edit - There's actually a bunch of audio comparisons on YouTube between the Type-S and HHKBP2 (and other keyboards) that may help you out.

 

[Risette]

You can always landing mod your HHKBP2 if you do find that it is a little loud for your classroom somehow. It's pretty much the same effect as the Type-S. More work, obviously, especially if you've never modded a keyboard before, but worth it over trying to undo the Type-S modification if you don't like the sound or feel of it.

Other folks have said that they can't tell a difference in feel between the Type-S and the normal HHKBP2 to be fair, so YMMV. I know they do extend the stem slightly on the Type-S to mitigate the modification. Messing with the sound was a pretty big offense to me with that particular keyboard.

I should also say I don't use my keyboards with any real regard for sound level in the context of other people (my work is all done in a personal office) so I'd feel a bit bad if you got it and found it was too loud for classroom use... is there any chance you can try one of these somewhere?

Edit - There's actually a bunch of audio comparisons on YouTube between the Type-S and HHKBP2 (and other keyboards) that may help you out.

I listened to some sound tests and I don't think the vanilla is too loud, but maybe the recording is deceiving... we do use Apple chiclet keyboards in our classes but some people pound the keys so it's not like I'd be the only one being loud. Also the Type-S recordings I heard have a weird high-pitched wheezing noise that sounds more distracting than the upstroke clack on the vanilla tbh lol.

I don't have any way to demo them unfortunately. If it ends up not working out I could always resell I guess, since Topre retains value well.

 

[Koren]

My initial soldering looked like this, but I found that a few of my keys didn't work exactly reliably, so I went and used the soldering iron (Around 400 IIRC?) to heat up both the contact hole and the pin, and then when I would apply the solder to the contact hole, it pooled all around it, making a much cleaner, solid connection as such:

I wonder about the 400... Seems far too low in Fahrenheit, and quite high in Celsius for 60/40 (it's a bit different for lead-free, especially the kind that include silver or other metals that increase the melting temperature).

If the solder create a "ball" on the pin (resulting indeed in a bad contact), it's not that the iron is too cold, it's that you haven't properly heated the pad/contact before adding solder.

The problem is that solder flow toward hotter parts. If the pad/contact is cold when you add solder, the solder will go away from it, resulting in a bad contact.


It's hard to tell on the picture given the resolution, but his soldering job seems quite decent, I'd say. I would have add more solder to cover a larger part of the connection, just to be sure, but that's not a real issue.

I could tell when it was hot enough, because the solder would totally change color to a very shiny aluminum sheen as it filled the contact hole.

The shininess can depend on the type of solder (lead-free for example usually won't be shiny, and that doesn't mean it's a bad one). But yes, if the solder can be shiny, lacking shininess is usually a bad sign. That being said, it can as much be "not enough time to melt" than "temperature too low".

I understand you can increase the temperature to solder faster, but unless you're on a speedrun, you can also just take a second to properly heat parts and solder to get the same result. With 63/37 and a thin tip, unless I'm in a hurry, I'm usually at 330-340°C.

 

[Wallach]

I listened to some sound tests and I don't think the vanilla is too loud, but maybe the recording is deceiving... we do use Apple chiclet keyboards in our classes but some people pound the keys so it's not like I'd be the only one being loud. Also the Type-S recordings I heard have a weird high-pitched wheezing noise that sounds more distracting than the upstroke clack on the vanilla tbh lol.

I don't have any way to demo them unfortunately. If it ends up not working out I could always resell I guess, since Topre retains value well.

Word. In fact if you wind up buying a black or white w/ blanks HHKBP2 and find out you need a Type-S, send me a PM and I'll pick it up off you for cost.

 

[Arkanius]

After using a Das Keyboard 2 with MX Blue for 4 years, I now bought a CoolerMaster Masterkeys M with MX brown for work

What a typing bliss it is, everyone think it's still loud (due the bottom out keys) but damn, it feels so good

 

[leroidys]

Realforce is on massdrop, but only 55g and variable... what do?

 

[FallingEdge]

Realforce is massdrop, but only 55g and variable... what do?

got a link?

 

[Koren]

got a link?

Edit: never mind, I received a Massdrop mail with the realforce advertised in it, but it's inactive :/

 

[leroidys]

Wow, that was quick. Guess that saves me $200...

 

[killertofu]

why are all the keyboards I want fucking obscure groupbuys that ended forever ago

 

[Tripon]

Bought a WASD Cherry MX Switch Tester. I wanted to see how the switches sound like.

 

[pineapplepizza]

Das Keyboard 4 Ultimate going on strong 2.5 years.

Highly recommend, feels the same as the first day I bought it, zero issues. Strong build quality.

 

[protonium]

.

 

[Tripon]

Any thoughts on Cherry MX clears vs browns for typing and gaming?

I want the WASD Code 87-Key but the version with brown switches is out of stock until May. The one with clear switches is available to order.

I have a DAS keyboard with brown switches, which works fine for typing and gaming, but I don't like how easy it is to bottom out the keys and to accidentally press the wrong key.

I've used a Filco with blue switches but, while it addresses my above concerns, it's too clicky.

It seems like clear switches would also address my concerns while not being too clicky but, I'm unsure of the force required and complaints of a "pinging" when the keys hit the keyboard backplate.

The switch tester I bought the other day came in yesterday, I was playing around it. The clear switches felt like heavier browns to me. I feel like if you like browns, you'd probably like clears.

Also, after playing around with the switch tester for a whole day (it's actually a good stress reliever, I was basically walking around with it in my hands all day) I think my next keyboard I order will be a blue or green switch. Just really liked how blues felt, and while greens seem heavier and I would probably get too tired of typing on it after a while, if I see a good deal, I will try to get it.