must've stole it from the airportWatched CNN in vivid mode and OLED Light at 100?
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LG Got So Good at Preventing Burn-In, It's Making Your Next OLED TV 30% Brighter. Here's How.
- Thread starter ParaSeoul
- Start date
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
I am just using mine with both pc and ps5.
No issues. I am sure burn-in is real but it will probably take few years and is overblown.
Linus case is interesting. Not sure what happened there but if you take minimal precautions, it's ok
lostinblue
Banned
Burn-in on plasma is rarely half-life burn-in as on the OLED. It's image persistance due to excited phosphors. So unless the plasma is anywhere near it's limits if you discontinue the behaviour and continue driving it it'll most likely go away (very slowly).
Also you're bound to tolerate a situation that drives you mad (if it does) way longer than when the problem first appears. I personally don't want to go through that. And then there are other caveats with OLED that I don't enjoy.
That's the issue: some people either don't have pockets as deep so they don't care or it goes against the way they think. And 3 to 6 years is a big difference. 6 is almost okay against the average 7.5 year tv lifespan. 3 years is hideous.
Also you're bound to tolerate a situation that drives you mad (if it does) way longer than when the problem first appears. I personally don't want to go through that. And then there are other caveats with OLED that I don't enjoy.
I don't. And I think a lot of tech literate people actually don't.
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rofif
Can’t Git Gud
I just don't understand why tv is this one exception with expectation to last for 10 years.
And for all we know - current OLEDs might actually last this long. This is still unclear.
For sure do not buy a tv you would be afraid to use. I personally dont care and my pockets are thin as fuck. I just put it realistically against other expenses and it's not that bad.
You can put it in 10x0% credit and be done with it. Anything better than lcd
Hell, we got new iphones this year and I expect them to last 2 years. And I could have 2 oleds for this price
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lostinblue
Banned
That's the issue: some people either don't have pockets as deep so they don't care or it goes against the way they think. And 3 to 6 years is a big difference. 6 is almost okay against the average 7.5 year tv lifespan. 3 years is hideous.
Also you're bound to tolerate a situation that drives you mad (if it does) way longer than when the problem first appears. I personally don't wat to go through that. And then there are other caveats with OLED that I don't enjoy.
I don't. And a lot of tech literate people actually don't.
And I also dislike OLED in phones.
He used it as a PC monitor. The other dude on the video who did had the same problem.
It's just not the right tech for that kind of use which is why LG is not selling OLED monitors in the first place.
They're market leaders on the monitor space so they would if the current panel/tech was suited enough.
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
I am using it as a monitor. My friend also.
We dont have burn in and we got it since march - 2k hours.
I just use desktop in sdr and have wallpapers on randomization.
lostinblue
Banned
I think it's both because because "image quality doesn't get reinvented every 5 years" and the investment asked for a high range tv is high, thus an investment. People want it to last.
I personally want everything to last no matter the asking price.
They might, yeah.
YeulEmeralda
Member
The first commercially available SSD was $5000. Now they are in consoles.
DJ12
Member
So you think Samsungs opening salvo being far brighter hasn't worried LG at all?
These panels are just going to get brighter and cheaper.
LG will be very worried.
Blood Borne
Member
Nah. That’s a straw man fallacy.
What I simply meant was that burn in is greatly over exaggerated.
You’d have to be an ultra heavy TV user and watching a specific type of content to get burn in, especially on modern OLED TVs.
Rtings did lots of extensive testing, they even had a COD video play for 24 hrs a day for a year and it had no burn in.
ParaSeoul
Member
LG has had a 7 year head start manufacturing OLEDs,they're going to have better yields,more sizes available and will be cheaper for years to come. Do you think they're just going to stay stagnant while Samsung improve QD-OLED?
Bar81
Member
You are drunk if you think I'd trade for your used TV of an earlier generation on which you have burn in on. Learn to read. I was speaking about a particular generation, not saying that no OLED has ever had burn in in prior generations.
bender
What time is it?
Because my offer was totally serious! Maybe read the thread before you encourage others to "learn to read". It's a good thing I don't need oxygen to function otherwise communicating with you would be hazardous.
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DJ12
Member
Take the LG fanboy googles off.
They have 7 years head start, and still cannot make a panel anywhere near as bright as Samsung displays have made on their first try.
And it's not like Samsung have no experience making OLED screens, their phones have had AMOLED for years.
The bar has been raised, in 2 to 3 years LG may have caught up with Samsung's brightness now, but I expect by then Samsung will have improved also.
And lets not forget QD-OLED also kicking LGs ass with the colour gamut.
LG are no longer kings of OLED.
LG are going to be losing sales to Samsung year on year for the foreseeable.
People with more money than sense, you know first adopters, will be going Samsung this year, next year when the price comes down, the enthusists will jump on board, and then the main stream a year or so after that when prices become reasonable.
News flash: People are willing to pay more for a superior product.
THE DUCK
voted poster of the decade by bots
Lol, why is it every single time someone on a forum who says the words "straw man" they turn out to be completely clueless. Must be a thing.
What you are saying is not true, but I'm not going to waste any more time on this.
FullMetalx117
Member
I purchased the LG 65" B series OLED about 3 years ago and never got burn in. It was a Sam's Club display model too. I accidentally leave it on at night sometimes, sometimes during the day all day, just stuck in start menus of games and no issues so far. I only paid $600 for this too (sam's club clearance deal at the time). I must've just gotten lucky with all the horror stories around...
Bar81
Member
I know you're serious. That's why instead of laughing at you I gave you the out of being drunk, which to no one's surprise you did not take and just reaffirmed that you're not very smart.
lostinblue
Banned
Not so, problem was not brightness, it was what that would make to the panel wear. You could always make them brighter, just like you can overdrive any LED and it'll work, but burn out faster.
They always had multiple options to make it brighter, from overdriving to making subpixels bigger (which is what Samsung did with their last plasma generation and might be doing on QD LED), adding a second white subpixel to the equation (bad for color accuracy) or... what they did.
Probably none of those made sense, from worse yields, more things to go wrong or having to overspend on a better power supply (LG sucks at this particular one). This, for as long as they had no competition.
AMOLED is OLED, but very different tech to QD-LED and WOLED-CF. Also, quite prone to burn-in which is why it never made the jump to TV's.
Probably but don't count on Samsung's implementation having no caveats of their own. The Blue OLED is the one with the lowest lifespan and they supposedly go BRIGHT. Burn-in might just be more of an issue at least initially - it's too early to tell.
If qd dots or a surface treatment don't filter UV and near-UV completely, you might also have a problem with the fact they are using blue OLED. Some people's eyes just can't handle that creating a ton of problems for them (that's why you have backlights with reduced UV and glasses that filter UV). What good is having a good TV if it tires you out every time you look at it? (Also, despite blue being worst in regards to invisible light, white OLED is the second worst in that regard so it's not like it is a non-issue on LG's side of the fence, *specially* on the white subpixel because it doesn't get filtered)
I've had to wrap AMOLED screens with yellow headlight film for people with such problems in the past, they would get migranes, eye twitching and sclera inflamation as a response. Night Shift/Night Mode often doesn't really help much.
That's a no brainer, AMOLED also kicks LG's ass because LG is one step removed from "real self-emitting" by using color filters and the result is colors are obtained by subtraction.
Samsung's solution to the problem (and way to go around the patents) is going for additive instead of subtractive. That means more light (or less light lost in the translation) and more gamut. Note that more gamut probably translates into 1% DCI98, up from 98% into 99%, perhaps all the way until 99,9%. And apparently in gold imagery reproduction.
No white subpixel is also a plus.
LG OLED picture quality (or QD LCD) is not suddenly shit. Also, most people won't notice it seeing we all know plenty people that can't tell TN from IPS.
That didn't exactly save plasma, Panasonic or Pioneer. Sometimes Sony (I remember when Sony had the only Quantum Dots LCD's on the market, and they didn't sold well).
Flagship products often don't make a lot of money, and more important than having a good product you have to have good marketing. Because if you do you can do a really good flagship product, sell 5 units and keep midrange profitable and cheap. Often also crap.
Samsung and LG will be fine of course, at some point they didn't even have good TV's on the market and they still sold gangbusters, people thought they were getting a bargain but in reality they were overpaying.
OLED space is 10 times more interesting with competition than it was before, though.
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lachesis
Member
I have C7 and don't have any burn in - checked yesterday out of curiosity. I mostly play my PS5 and XSX on it - and occasional movie watching.
I do have that faint middle vertical line thing though.... When watching something, you really can't see it - but when it goes into solid color, you see faint blur of line right in the middle of the screen.
I think I started noticing when I ran the pixel refresher. I only refresh it once in a year or so, and I kinda regret doing it now.
Other than that - the TV's been so good to me, it wouldn't deter me buying another LG OLED, if I have to buy something next year or two.
Unlike a lot of people, I don't like super bright screens, and my current OLED seems bright enough.
When I watch something with sub in HDR, sometimes the sub color is so vivid that hurts my eyes.
I do have that faint middle vertical line thing though.... When watching something, you really can't see it - but when it goes into solid color, you see faint blur of line right in the middle of the screen.
I think I started noticing when I ran the pixel refresher.
I only refresh it once in a year or so, and I kinda regret doing it now.Other than that - the TV's been so good to me, it wouldn't deter me buying another LG OLED, if I have to buy something next year or two.
Unlike a lot of people, I don't like super bright screens, and my current OLED seems bright enough.
When I watch something with sub in HDR, sometimes the sub color is so vivid that hurts my eyes.
The_Mike
I cry about SonyGaf from my chair in Redmond, WA
Every oled generation oled fanatics keeps saying "the oled burn in was last gen this gen they've prevented it!"
If that's true why does the burn in problem occur anyway?
I fail to understand people like this. Do they live in their own bubble?
Anyway can't wait to hear people cry about burn ins in 2022.
If that's true why does the burn in problem occur anyway?
I fail to understand people like this. Do they live in their own bubble?
Anyway can't wait to hear people cry about burn ins in 2022.
mclaren777
Member
I've had a B6 for over five years and I don't see any signs of burn-in.
Maybe I'm just lucky.
Maybe I'm just lucky.
Darklor01
Might need to stop sniffing glue
Same same.
Hoddi
Member
Out of curiosity, do you use it as a true primary desktop/work display or is it mostly for gaming? Any idea how many hours per day you have it in desktop mode?
I'm not too worried about burn-in considering that I've been gaming on a plasma TV for the past 12 years and that was a whole nothingburger. It's the desktop part that has me more worried since I've been working from home a lot.
It's all in the wrist
Member
I have a B6. No burn in. Definitely has temporary image retention, though. I don't notice it on anything but solid gray.
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
Yes it’s my main. About 2k hours. Hidden taskbar and randomising wallpapers
Unknown Soldier
Member
It's not rocket science to understand that emissive display technologies going all the way back to old-school CRT, but also in succession plasma and OLED, have a simple pixel aging process where the pixels simply don't get as bright after a few years as they did when new. That's just how pixel wear works.Every oled generation oled fanatics keeps saying "the oled burn in was last gen this gen they've prevented it!"
If that's true why does the burn in problem occur anyway?
I fail to understand people like this. Do they live in their own bubble?
Anyway can't wait to hear people cry about burn ins in 2022.
So what is "burn-in"? It's simply uneven pixel wear. If you for example blast an OLED panel with a simple white and black image, the top half has white pixels lit 100% brightness, and leave the bottom half completely dark 0% brightness, and leave the panel turned on that way for say a month, well you just aged the top half really fast and the bottom half not at all. So now if you try to display an image of a tree, you'll find the top half the tree less bright than the bottom half.
That's it, that is ALL "burn-in" actually is. And guess what? There is no way to prevent pixel wear, and if you do something like display the CNN logo on the OLED panel for a few months, you're going to wear the CNN logo portion of the panel differently from the rest of the panel and that's why the CNN logo "burns in". What I'm saying is that "burn-in" is an inherent part of the technology, and all mitigation techniques do is try to reduce the rate by while the screen unevenly ages.
This is why the best way to prevent "burn-in" is simply to display a lot of constantly changing images, and never show any static elements on the screen. This prevents a constant uneven wear on any one part of the panel. OLED TV's are fantastic for movies (or TV shows on a channel or streaming service which doesn't show a constant logo on screen) because they never show static logos and constantly change what each pixel is doing. They are not good for Windows desktops which constantly show the same things on some parts of the screen like the taskbar, or games which show a constant UI or screen overlay of any kind. And now you know why.
That's it, thanks for coming to my TED talk.
ParaSeoul
Member
You are beyond help lmao. I've bought nothing but Samsung TVs before I got my C1. You're acting as if Samsung has developed QD-OLED in a year or something. Samsung Display struggled to get QD-OLED to market for years and even then had many delays. The price of QD-OLEDs will take years to reach a price that most consumers are willing to pay over a normal OLED. Manufacturers are still using mostly LG panels for OLEDs,they don't need to be worried. You probably don't know LG makes both foldable and transparent OLEDs so yeah they're still the go to for most when it comes to OLED. They'd only need to be worried if they can't develop a competitor to QD-OLED before it becomes cheaper which is unlikely.
ParaSeoul
Member
No one says burn in is gone. The chances of getting it just decreases,now at a point where you'd actively have to be trying to get it. But you didn't want to hear that you just wanted to bait and troll.Every oled generation oled fanatics keeps saying "the oled burn in was last gen this gen they've prevented it!"
If that's true why does the burn in problem occur anyway?
I fail to understand people like this. Do they live in their own bubble?
Anyway can't wait to hear people cry about burn ins in 2022.
lostinblue
Banned
How do you differentiate that? When you turn it on after being off to the point of being cold, is it still there? If it is on OLED's case it's not retention but burn-in.
The thing is, on plasma "burn-in" was usually retention, but on OLED it is instead cumulative; as in, doesn't matter if you don't do it for 100 hours, if you start doing it again it starts right where it stopped.
Then they have a contingency method of wearing out all the other pixels, so visible damage goes away, but it's wearing out the whole panel.
mitchman
Gold Member
Same, B9 and the last year a CX as a monitor for work and pleasure. I don't really see retention at all, but for the CX, I run only OLED brightness at 80 and not HDR.
mitchman
Gold Member
Let's wait for the reviews and comparisons before making any concrete conclusions one way or the other. Marketing is just that, building hype for a product that might or might not beat the 2022 offerings from LG. Many will be quite happy with LG OLEDs for years to come if Samsung can't compete on price, or at least not make it significantly more expensive than the LGs. I see QD-OLEDs in my future if they can be bought without selling 3 kidneys, but I certainly won't buy them the first year.
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The Cockatrice
Member
"I have no burn in" is the same as "my ips has no backlight bleed". Cool to see ppl not having the issue but ignoring the fact that there are plenty of issues with it is stupid. inb4 the rabid dude that claims oleds are perfection replies, dont bother, ure prolly on my ignore list.
YeulEmeralda
Member
The fact that you have to "hide taskbars and randomize wallpapers" pretty much tells you that OLED technology is not perfect.
ParaSeoul
Member
Don't need to if you use it as a tv or for console gaming. Also what tech is perfect? OLED has perfect blacks,the best response time and no blooming. LCDs have brightness and thats about it.
lostinblue
Banned
"best response time" is both a blessing and a curse in OLED's case.
In a way, it's like you time travelled to the future because that's certainly the final destination we set for that. Except it's like having a HDTV and only having Standard Definition to feed it. The TV/Console sources of the present are unable to make it justice, 30/60fps content is suddenly a slideshow if the transition is immediate unless you post process/interpolate it into oblivion.
By having better response time, motion is worse.
Then and despite that instant response time per pixel, OLED have some of the same misgivings as LCD, lines refreshed per Hertz are the same 300 /600, you you need 4 refresh cycles to get a full image. Again, being instant is a disservice for them because it's more evident in motion while LCD can disguise it better with pixel color transitions taking a few miliseconds. LCD also has the potential for really good Black Frame Insertion, which is not as straightforward in OLED as the screen and the backlight are the same. This is admittedly less of a problem now that we have 240 Hz OLED screens everywhere so you can mask that behaviour against the aforementioned sources.
Personally I'd prefer miniLED for regular content. And perhaps OLED if I only played games on high-end computers and could maintain rates of 120 fps consistently. For desktop/production use I wouldn't touch OLED with a stick unless I needed to do state of the art color grading (which I actually did in the past but it was my employer responsibility to supply me with the hardware I needed, hence their responsibility to replace it as well).
For that end, Sony had "real RGB OLED" back in 2012, here is a video of the second or third generation:
-> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESzWY0hW85Y
If QD-LED comes even close to the gamut of those they might be effectively cheap for some professional uses quite fast.
Also note that, weirdly enough, after that Sony left OLED pro-grade monitors and replaced them with LCD with "little or no difference" image quality and reportedly improved color gamut.
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