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Live chat with J Allard Tomorrow (8/21)
- Thread starter sangreal
- Start date
DCX
DCX
J Allard (Moderator): i just want to thank the community for the enthusiam and passion for xbox since the beginning. conversations like this are super valuable and we would love to do this again.
in summary we tried to optimize launch around three critical audiences
[1] - the game developer - by offering them a no compromises platform with great hardware, tools and the leading online service with live.
[2]- the hard core gamer - by putting together a configuration with everything you would want at a compelling price.
[3] the entry level gamer - that wanted to get into next generation gaming and was excited by the media capabilities and wanted an entry level option
i know the multiple configuration strategy has introduced some confusion and concern with the hard core gamers in particular. hopefully this has helped explain some of the thinking that went into it. if you - like me - want gaming to get bigger and want to see more creative games out there we need to grow the market.
DCX
in summary we tried to optimize launch around three critical audiences
[1] - the game developer - by offering them a no compromises platform with great hardware, tools and the leading online service with live.
[2]- the hard core gamer - by putting together a configuration with everything you would want at a compelling price.
[3] the entry level gamer - that wanted to get into next generation gaming and was excited by the media capabilities and wanted an entry level option
i know the multiple configuration strategy has introduced some confusion and concern with the hard core gamers in particular. hopefully this has helped explain some of the thinking that went into it. if you - like me - want gaming to get bigger and want to see more creative games out there we need to grow the market.
DCX
mr jones said:
I was expecting a PR communication. I was at least hoping for a good one. This sounds more and more like a recap of everything we've heard in the last few days, as if J Allard was a hoodie-wearing drone.
Look, what I see here is a very good console, reasonably powerful and complete with a well-designed controller and what could be a good online solution. But, to put it succinctly, their PR and their real concerns are a world apart, and why should that sort of thing be accepted by anyone? Then, when the good old bait and switch is done, an executive comes along acting as if he has the answers to assuage us, and it turns out he doesn't. A company is a company, and this is what they do, but these guys are doing it badly. Frankly, it is like the company I remember; they don't have to answer for anything because of their monopoly power, as if this were Windows 360 and not the successor to a distant second-place console in the current generation. I was interested in the X360, but I hope the buying public doesn't give Microsoft the gold. At least support someone who can BS better.
Lunar Aura
Banned
" i think that the capabilities we are offering with xbox 360 are unmatched in the history of videogaming. it's a great value. and the system that most of the folks in this chat room are going to prefer. i saw a posting earlier today where someone looked up the historical prices and capabilities of games systems. it was worth noting that the ps2 launched at $368 (in japan) with no hard drive, no online service, no mu, no wireless, no voice, no network adapter, no remote, and only support for 2 controllers. that's not reason we priced the system this way but it does provide a comparitive frame of referencfe for what you are getting. when you consider you are getting the most powerful games system, best cd player, digital media player, movie player, etc. it's a great value."
and whats wrong with this answer? whats wrong with him comparing it to the ps2 in japan? have you dolts forgotten that THIS IS the 360s main territory? it doesnt matter that "historically" the systems launch in japan first and then come here at a lower price. We are the launch territory with the xbox. do you think they should launch it in japan first at $399 THEN lower the price here for our launch a year later? :lol
and whats wrong with this answer? whats wrong with him comparing it to the ps2 in japan? have you dolts forgotten that THIS IS the 360s main territory? it doesnt matter that "historically" the systems launch in japan first and then come here at a lower price. We are the launch territory with the xbox. do you think they should launch it in japan first at $399 THEN lower the price here for our launch a year later? :lol
:lol Well number 1 and 2 are complete bullshit.
"[1] - the game developer - by offering them a no compromises platform with great hardware, tools and the leading online service with live."
Removing the HDD as a standard feature which developers could have used in designing their games seems like a pretty big compromise.
"[2]- the hard core gamer - by putting together a configuration with everything you would want at a compelling price."
Compelling price my ass. $400 for any videogame system is not compelling, it's regrettable for even the people who are buying it.
"[1] - the game developer - by offering them a no compromises platform with great hardware, tools and the leading online service with live."
Removing the HDD as a standard feature which developers could have used in designing their games seems like a pretty big compromise.
"[2]- the hard core gamer - by putting together a configuration with everything you would want at a compelling price."
Compelling price my ass. $400 for any videogame system is not compelling, it's regrettable for even the people who are buying it.
Because technology has advanced since March 2000. Because this is America, not Japan. This is every system's main territory, and it has traditionally paid the lowest price for consoles.Lunar Aura said:
Might as well point out the ludicrous European pricing for the first Xbox....not that that would have helped either.
(finally got back in...)
J Allard (Moderator): like the consumer electronics industry or the automotive industry having a family of products (we believe) will be good for the market.
at the end of the day, you guys make xbox a success and we designed xbox for you and dialogs like this are what have gone into the xbox program to date and will continue to give life to xbox for years to come.
let's keep the dialog going. thanks for your time.
i should also mention that we know a lot of folks could not make it into the chat and will be interested in this dialog so know that we will be posting all of this onto majornelson.com and sorry for the lag (it's been hard for us too).
j
J Allard (Moderator): like the consumer electronics industry or the automotive industry having a family of products (we believe) will be good for the market.
at the end of the day, you guys make xbox a success and we designed xbox for you and dialogs like this are what have gone into the xbox program to date and will continue to give life to xbox for years to come.
let's keep the dialog going. thanks for your time.
i should also mention that we know a lot of folks could not make it into the chat and will be interested in this dialog so know that we will be posting all of this onto majornelson.com and sorry for the lag (it's been hard for us too).
j
Project Midway
Member
I got out too and cant get back in. 
bah, off to bed I go...
bah, off to bed I go...[1] - the game developer - by offering them a no compromises platform with great hardware, tools and the leading online service with live. (seems like there was a huge compromise concerning the hard drive that will no doubt piss developers off by not having it standard)
[2]- the hard core gamer - by putting together a configuration with everything you would want at a compelling price. (by bundling stuff that no one wants, at a high launch price, and nickel and dime accessory pricing?)
[3] the entry level gamer - that wanted to get into next generation gaming and was excited by the media capabilities and wanted an entry level option (when these entry level gamers need to purchase hundreds of dollars of accessories to be able to enjoy the features touted over and over again in the HD-era?)
These are some weak sauce answers.
[2]- the hard core gamer - by putting together a configuration with everything you would want at a compelling price. (by bundling stuff that no one wants, at a high launch price, and nickel and dime accessory pricing?)
[3] the entry level gamer - that wanted to get into next generation gaming and was excited by the media capabilities and wanted an entry level option (when these entry level gamers need to purchase hundreds of dollars of accessories to be able to enjoy the features touted over and over again in the HD-era?)
These are some weak sauce answers.
Im still waiting for someone to tell me what the standard harddrive in xbox brought to the table other than slightly improved load times in some games. Developers never took advantage of it, seems to me like 99 percent of them dont give a crap if its there or not. Whats pretty funny is the hundreds of trolls flooding the chat so they can start running damage controll the instant he says anything.
krypt0nian
Banned
Without a standard HDD, you can fuck yourself, J Allard.
Lunar Aura
Banned
or why theres bitching about the core system when in fact allard is right. if you take PS2s launch system here in the USA, for $299 what did you get? No network adapter, 2 controller ports, no option for wireless controllers unless you purchased a wireless controller setup, no hard drive...nada. just a stock system. after buying a hard drive and a network adapter how mch would you have spent then? why is this any different then the $299 360 core system of now? I really dont get the rationality of the detractors.
they underestimated the internet
super-heated plasma
Member
crunker99 said:
Because XBOX 1 was more than a decent console, and MS has had far more serious mistakes than a broken down chat room before XBOX 1 came out, Im sure.
Lets not get over dramatic.
nextgeneration
Member
Wholeheartedly agree. Everything about 360 so far seems so rushed and with launch only several months away, why do the majority of titles look marginally better than current generation games? Yes, there are exceptions, but a good number of the games displayed so far don't look like a generation better than current generation games. This should be cause for alarm.
Mr. Lemming
Member
Lunar Aura said:
Well for $300 you got an XBox which did have a HD... if the original Xbox didn't have a HD there wouldn't be so much complaint about the HD in the 360 not being standard.
If the URL of the room is any indication, it's a beta version of a chat room:
http://www.microsoft.com/communities/chats/chatrooms/beta.aspx
Nice job, MS...use a room full of bugs to host 2,000+ people.
http://www.microsoft.com/communities/chats/chatrooms/beta.aspx
Nice job, MS...use a room full of bugs to host 2,000+ people.
Lunar Aura
Banned
Mr. Lemming said:
are you forgetting how much money they bled? or how much more powerful the360 is compared to the xbox? back in november 2001 there were already PCs with more power than xbox tech. this is hardly the case this time around.
you have to be kidding. please tell me you are. for the love of all that is good with the world.
He should have said "Commodore 64 was 500 euros back in 1982 with no tape drive and only 64k memory. I think Xbox 360 is a great value at 399 euros." :lolLunar Aura said:
You missed the point of the earlier example -- that was 5 years ago, when costs of things like a hard drive and network adapter were much much higher. MS raised the standards with their system, and now they want to lower standards (while raising prices).
Whether or not you think system pricing is an issue, it seems like people are pretty upset about costs of both system and accessories. I tend to find the accessories issues more disturbing, since that seems to be where we are getting some of their cutthroat monopolistic practices.Incognito said:
Mr. Lemming said:
Exactly, not to mention all the propaganda about how a hd will offer developers a way to make better games. And maybe the developers didn't take advantage of it as much as they could have. But that's not to say they won't this gen.
The fact is, the hd was the most important feature that the xbox brought to console gaming. And we wanted to see it on the 360 as well. It was the one thing that would not be matched or bested by the competition. Now the hd is nothing more than a glorified memory card.
nextgeneration
Member
Hmm, labeling me as a ps3 fanboy, eh? Whatever. I'm just voicing my concerns with how Microsoft is handling all this so far and my doubts about how powerful the sytem is, that's all. As a gamer, I expect a lot out of next generation, and what I've seen so far from Microsoft, I am disappointed.
And don't get me started with Sony. I detest what they've shown so far, as the majority of the stuff they've shown so far is cgi and not actual gameplay.
Musashi Wins!
FLAWLESS VICTOLY!
crunker99 said:
That's a rather childish analysis, don't you think?
It only sticks I guess because they've been so unsuccessful in brokering any of the hardcore gamer credibility they may have gained with the last few successful years of the xbox 1. I'm definitely not committed to any "machine", but I enjoyed their first console quite a bit and at this point I have extremely little interest in ponying up for a new one. I'd think that's due to failures obvious on their side as I'm the exact kind of consumer who they should be expecting to grab their "premium" package out of the gates.
the facts though are these...the software is underwhelming, the entire pre-launch campaign has robbed me of any confidence in their product and the people now running the show at Xbox are obviously not all that savvy. And are aiming at something besides someone like me as a consumer.
All this work to launch first and their flushing it to the people who should be first in line. Nice job.
Lunar Aura
Banned
TheDuce22 said:
:lol exactly. if you can still use other storage options for streaming music, saves and DLC wtf difference does it make? the HD in the xbox WAS a glorified mem card. who ever used more than 1/10th of the space on the drive? if that? :lol
madden next gen+$299 core pack=joe casual laughing at you while sipping his beer.
The Abominable Snowman
Member
The main loss was because MS did not own the chip design and had no control over manufacturing and pricing for the chips in the Xbox. On top of that, they did not scale the Hard Drive as time went on. 8/10GB plates were more expensive than 20GB plates at a point in time, yet they did/could do nothing, because they were stuck in a contract like R.Kelly was stuck in a closetLunar Aura said:
They sued Nvidia because they were working them over in prices
And part of the reason the Xbox could hang with the PCs (Running games from 2003 and 2004 like Doom 3) was the Hard Drive. Preloading rox.
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