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[teiresias]

J Allard (Expert):
Q: Can a USB Memory been used by the xbox 360??(I'm asking this because the 360 has USB ports)
A: at present our design for xbox 360 uses the usb ports in a read-only capacity for playing music and viewing photos. if there are other applications that you guys think are interesting then please give us your feedback.

This is a very weird thing to say, particularly since the official Wi-Fi adapter is USB and so obviously can't be read-only (not to mention anyone that knows anything about the USB protocol knows at the protocol level it's pretty much impossible for something to be read-only since the host must initiate all transactions).

Sounds mainly like a thinly disguised way to say the following: "Sure you can read a music file from any memory you want, but if you're going to be writing anything to any kind of disk you better be prepared to pay for our official peripherals."

He said wifi adapters will work.

Did he? He said the following:

we had a fixed budget and could not do it all. in the end we had a budget and had to offer wifi as an option but we did decide to add "a" as a standard in addition to b and g. we are also compatible with existing devices already on the makret.

A cynic could read that as him saying "our official wi-fi adapter is compatible with existing wi-fi routers and networking equipment."

 

[empanada]

He said wifi adapters will work.

ok, I just saw that on my 2nd attempt to read that PR garbage.
Still bad news about USB drives.

 

[Dr_Cogent]

Well all you need a is memory stick pro, memory stick pro duo, compact flash, or SD card. Don't need a reader. PLAYSTATION 3 has all 4 ports built into the system for storage options on top of a potential hdd. Nothing confirmed on the USB hdd front yet, though.

Well, if you can use memory sticks - they should make it so you can use USB flash drives. I mean, cmon. Implementing that is cake.

 

[Mrbob]

Well, if you can use memory sticks - they should make it so you can use USB flash drives. I mean, cmon. Implementing that is cake.

We'll have to wait and see. I wouldn't see why it couldn't. The damn thing has 6 usb ports after all.

 

[Dr_Cogent]

We'll have to wait and see. I wouldn't see why it couldn't. The damn thing has 6 usb ports after all.

Cmon Sony - make it happen. Do the right thing and squash MS into the ground. I now give you my blessing.

:lol

 

[border]

He said wifi adapters will work.

Well he says "we are also compatible with existing devices already on the makret." Seems unclear whether he is talking about currently branded "Xbox Wifi Adaptors" that are bridges, or whether he means they are compatible with currently existing USB Adatpors.....or whether he means they are compatible with all routers currently on the market.

 

[sonycowboy]

He said wifi adapters will work.

No he didn't.

But, we do know that the Wi-Fi thing is using the USB, so they're not completely incapable of supporting writes, but it seems like Microsoft's adapter ~might be the only thing that works. You can keep using the Microsoft bridge that was already sold for $110 or so as that just plugs into the ethernet port, right?

 

[GG-Duo]

J Allard (Expert):
Q: Why even offer the core package, its seems quite useless
A: the significance of this message can not be understated.

o__O

 

[border]

Yeah, if other WiFi USB Keys were being supported, I don't think that they would be charging $100 for theirs.

 

[Reilly]

J Allard (Expert):
Q: will the core system come with a memory card? if not, how can u save games?
A: no it does not come with a memory unit. gamers will need an mu or a hard drive to save games with which is consistent with the games industry for the last decade.



fuck you Allard

 

[mj1108]

J Allard (Expert):
Q: will the core system come with a memory card? if not, how can u save games?
A: no it does not come with a memory unit. gamers will need an mu or a hard drive to save games with which is consistent with the games industry for the last decade.



fuck you Allard

So if you buy the retard pack, you better buy a $40 MU to go with it....then with a game, you're now back at the magical $400 price point.

 

[empanada]

So if you buy the retard pack, you better buy a $40 MU to go with it....then with a game, you're now back at the magical $400 price point.

The "Retard Pack" lives up to its name. You really are a retard if you buy that. :lol
I think this "chat" just convinced me to skip the 360 launch and only reconsider it when the PS3 comes out.

 

[mj1108]

The "Retard Pack" lives up to its name. You really are a retard if you buy that. :lol

No kidding.

And to reiterate what a couple others have said:
The $299 price point seems to be all "smoke and mirrors", so they can advertise it "Starting at $299"....then when the customer walks into the store they are sold a $399 package which they justify once they see the price of the "anal-raping-overpriced accessories".

I expect we'll see the Retard Pack go away or drop to $199 and a price drop on the "Real Pack" to $299 if Sony goes $399.

 

[----]

I have to say that I did get a minute amount of information out of that. Unfortunately it was all bad...


1.) We got one thing confirmed as far as the Xbox 360 not being able to stream video from a normal PC. That totally bites. I mean even if I had to use WMP 10 to convert all of my videos to WMV or something it would be better than nothing. It seems like the video menu feature is only there for playing video off of the HDD, not USB. Playing video from USB for some reason seems to be a no go and there hasn't been any clarification on what video codecs will be supported for video playback off the HDD.

2.) It looks like there will be no downloadable music or movies through the Xbox Live marketplace which is a pretty big missed opportunity on MS's part. What do they mean they're waiting for feedback? This is a no brainer. If people are already watching DVD movies and listening to music through their Xbox 360's isn't it logical that they would want to download content to watch, listen to and use in games? How hard is it to just bring up the MSN music webpage or Cinema Now through Xbox Live?

3.) The Xbox 360 cannot write to any USB devices, USB will be read only. Again totally sucks. That means not only are game saves onto a USB device out of the picture but so is downloading anything from the marketplace, like music or movies or expanded game content.


I just love the lack of logic present in statements like "by abstracting storage in the system we are making sure that all xbox 360 games will work on all configurations moving forward and early customers will be able to take advantage of future scenarios like bigger drives and network storage."

In other words, by making mass storage unnecessary we have now enabled you to add greater storage!

 

[krypt0nian]

I guess we will see if they truly listen to gamers like they claim.

This is the biggest outpouring of negativity before a console launch I've ever seen. For them to have Allred wheel out the PR wagon shows that they know that.

If the hardcore don't play early adopter this holiday, it could be a SEGA magnitude bumble.

One SKU - $349 with wireless controler and included HDD is the only way to come out of this saving face IMO.

 

[mj1108]

I guess we will see if they truly listen to gamers like they claim.

This is the biggest outpouring of negativity before a console launch I've ever seen.

IAWTP. Never seen it this bad -- ever.

 

[The Abominable Snowman]

J Allard (Expert):
Q: will the core system come with a memory card? if not, how can u save games?
A: no it does not come with a memory unit. gamers will need an mu or a hard drive to save games with which is consistent with the games industry for the last decade.



fuck you Allard

THANK YOU!!

Jesus Christ. First he ballyhoos about expanding gaming beyond what it has been so far and involving casuals, then goes on about innovation, then he creates a system which is remniscient of the PS2 but without the developers, the big name franchises, the backwards compatibility, and a huge schism.

 

[xsarien]

American's look at the next fiscal quarter. The Japanese look at the next quarter century.

[/two cents for identifying this movie quote]

Rising Sun?

 

[GhaleonEB]

I guess we will see if they truly listen to gamers like they claim.

This is the biggest outpouring of negativity before a console launch I've ever seen. For them to have Allred wheel out the PR wagon shows that they know that.

If the hardcore don't play early adopter this holiday, it could be a SEGA magnitude bumble.

One SKU - $349 with wireless controler and included HDD is the only way to come out of this saving face IMO.

Agreed. But then changing the game after the announcement would cause some pain at retial (to put it lightly) since they already had to call up all the pre-orders and ask which bundle they want.

 

[Yossarian]

I don't see how the retard pack is retarded at all.

I understand why it is deficient from a technical standpoint, but the retard pack's very existance will keep it from being retarded. Lemme explain. What really makes the retard pack so very useless is the fact that it doesn't include the HD; however, because the retard pack is out there the HD will not be utilized as much by developers. This will make the HD all but a very large memory card, making its absence in the retard pack not so horrible.

This means that all that really makes the retard pack retarded is the lack of HD-cables and the wired controller. If you're not into the HD era, whats the big deal?

 

[Beer Monkey]

One SKU - $349 with wireless controler and included HDD is the only way to come out of this saving face IMO.

I can see your point, but I hope that doesn't happen. I have to get a component cable, which puts me at $390, but I could really use a remote and a new headset, so I'd end up somewhere around $440, which is more than the nontard pack will cost me.

 

[The Abominable Snowman]

I don't see how the retard pack is retarded at all.

I understand why it is deficient from a technical standpoint, but the retard pack's very existance will keep it from being retarded. Lemme explain. What really makes the retard pack so very useless is the fact that it doesn't include the HD; however, because the retard pack is out there the HD will not be utilized as much by developers. This will make the HD all but a very large memory card, making its absence in the retard pack not so horrible.

This means that all that really makes the retard pack retarded is the lack of HD-cables and the wired controller. If you're not into the HD era, whats the big deal?

Because you're raped on download content, capability, and memcard prices.

With games like KOTOR having 20MB saves, and Morrowind having saves upward of 50MB, And other games like madden at 4-10MB I doubt the 64MB is going to last long. Stacking up on a few might make sense, except for the exhorbitant prices

 

[Striek]

J Allard (Expert): This in from e-mail: Got a question about the $399 price point for Xbox 360. Feels steep.

J Allard (Expert): i think that the capabilities we are offering with xbox 360 are unmatched in the history of videogaming. it's a great value. and the system that most of the folks in this chat room are going to prefer. i saw a posting earlier today where someone looked up the historical prices and capabilities of games systems. it was worth noting that the ps2 launched at $368 (in japan) with no hard drive, no online service, no mu, no wireless, no voice, no network adapter, no remote, and only support for 2 controllers. that's not reason we priced the system this way but it does provide a comparitive frame of referencfe for what you are getting. when you consider you are getting the most powerful games system, best cd player, digital media player, movie player, etc. it's a great value.

They have really really REALLY got to stop comparing the X360 with the PS2.

 

[----]

Honestly I also don't see anyone ever making use of the Xbox 360's ability to play games even when a family member has detached the HDD and taken it somewhere. If all your previous game saves are on that HDD and you now have no HDD to save your progress to, there's really no point in even playing a game.

Although think of the fun you can have by hiding your siblings HDD and then watching as he realizes after an hour or two of playing that he can't save his game.

 

[Crag Dweller]

If this was a poker game Microsoft would be holding a pair of 2's. Sony is one card shy from a royal flush, and Nintendo is sitting there giggling like a maniac, You don't know if he has something or if he's batshit insane.

 

[Mooreberg]

I wish all the systems had a small amount of built in memory like Saturn did that made buying memory cards optional for people that don't play games with enormous save files (like RPGs) or download new content into the system. Even if it's just a "built in memory card" it saves you some headaches if you're just playing stuff like fighting and racing games. Plus it wouldn't be a point of failure like a built-in HDD can be.

 

[sonycowboy]

American's look at the next fiscal quarter. The Japanese look at the next quarter century.

[/two cents for identifying this movie quote]

Rising Sun?

Nope.

 

[TheOMan]

If this was a poker game Microsoft would be holding a pair of 2's. Sony is one card shy from a royal flush, and Nintendo is sitting there giggling like a maniac, You don't know if he has something or if he's batshit insane.

:lol :lol :lol awesome imagery here!

 

[krypt0nian]

Posted by
PKG on majornelson.com -

Xbox 360 Vs. Xbox CORE = Xbox CORE Wins

Let me get straight to the point, the Xbox CORE system will become the dominant of the two SKU’s when all is said and done. I base this outcome on quotes from Microsoft Executives, retail behaviors and past history of video game consoles.

The opponents

- Xbox 360 Console - Microsoft’s 3 ton gorilla, packed with chrome detailing, faceplate, wireless controller, HD-AV pack, Ethernet cable, backwards compatibility, Xbox Live headset, Xbox Live Silver service, Xbox Live Gold 30 day trial, and the controversial HDD (Hard drive). MSRP - $399.99 USD

- Xbox 360 CORE – Microsoft’s 2.5 ton gorilla, packed with faceplate, wired controller, STANDARD-AV pack, Xbox Live Silver service, and Xbox Live Gold 30 day trial. MSRP - $299.99 USD

Looking at the two SKU’s it’s obviously a no-brainer, the Xbox 360 Console has more ‘bang for the buck’ and would easily be the dominant of the two SKU’s. However as we’ll shortly find out the Xbox 360 CORE will dominate. You see the Xbox 360 CORE will become dominant because the game has been fixed from the outset to favor the underdog.

Ding, Ding Ding, First Round begins

This November fan boys, gamers and electronic aficionados alike will be clamoring to get their grubby paws on an Xbox 360 Console. Microsoft clearly has packed in goodies and value for the price, on the other hand gamers snarl and look at the Xbox 360 CORE as the Xbox 360’s aborted little brother that is clearly lacking the HDD, HD-AV pack and wireless controller.

Microsoft has priced these optional components at relatively high prices, for instance the HDD is priced at MSRP $99.99 USD, the wireless controllers at MSRP $49.99 USD, the HD-AV pack at MSRP $39.99 USD, and finally the Xbox Live Headset at MSRP $19.99 USD. Adding these components and the Xbox 360 CORE together you basically get the Xbox 360 Console, but at a total price of MSRP $509.95 USD. Clearly buying the Xbox 360 Console at MSRP $399.99 USD is the better bargain.

The majority of ‘hardcore gamers’ will obviously be buying the Xbox 360 Console, and ignore the Xbox 360 CORE completely. The ‘hardcore gamer’ will see the hard drive as an essential component to the console, with a hard drive games can be enhanced by caching content, saving data, having persistent objects within games, and offer better texture and graphics to games that otherwise may not be possible; provided the developer supports these features within their games. Microsoft intends that the majority of customers will be purchasing the Xbox 360 Console to be the case and clearly has priced these optional accessories accordingly. From a recent interview article at IGN with Peter Moore:

‘IGN: Do you think that gamers will by more for one SKU than the other? Do you have research that proves the higher price point is going to take off?

Peter: My firm belief, and in all of the discussions I’ve had in the last couple days with the analysts who are starting to look at this and tear this thing apart, is that the great majority of sales will be at $399. That is huge value for the money. We absolutely project that the Xbox 360 will outsell the Core System in the early going. Over the life cycle that balance will probably change, but for $399, it’s phenomenal value.’

So Microsoft has done their homework, their analyst’s feel the Xbox 360 higher priced SKU will sell well and I would have to agree with them. At the outrageous price of the optional accessories and the ‘bang for the buck’ factor, the premium priced Xbox 360 Console is clearly the better option, or is it?

On to Round Two

At this point, Microsoft (if everything goes according to plan) is enjoying the sales of the Xbox 360 Console and Xbox 360 CORE sales. The ‘hardcore gamers’ are buying untold number of Xbox 360 Consoles, while the general consumer is purchasing the Xbox 360 CORE SKU.

Microsoft feels they have tapped the number of ‘hardcore gamers’ that are willing to purchase the console at the current MSRP $399.99 USD price point and are preparing to battle against Sony’s Playstation 3 console (Sony PS3).

It is estimated that Sony’s PS3 console will retail for around $499.99+ USD. How can Sony really compete against the Xbox 360 CORE when it retails for MSRP $299.99 USD and Sony’s machine is expected to retail for $499.99+ USD? Microsoft obviously will be marketing the CORE version to consumers, to cut right where it counts – the wallet. Consumers will be heading in droves to stores to purchase the latest console of choice, and at MSRP $299.99 how can anyone resist picking up a console equivalent to if not better then the Sony PS3?

Consumers are confronted with a dilemma of multiple options when they head to the stores, buy the MSRP $299.99 USD version of the Xbox 360 CORE, buy the $399.99 USD version of the Xbox 360, or buy the $499.99+ USD Sony PS3. Those that do purchase an Xbox 360 clearly will be going for the cheaper model; because when you get to the basics, both versions of the consoles play the exact same games, thus why not save $100 dollars and purchase the cheaper model? You must also realize the majority of these buyers at not ‘hardcore gamers’, as most of the ‘hardcore gamers’ would have purchased the console around launch (majority – not all).

Microsoft too has a dilemma, more and more of their customer base is purchasing the Xbox 360 CORE at this point, compared to the Xbox 360 Console. As Peter Moore was quoted, ‘over the life cycle the CORE probably will shift the balance’; and this is exactly what has occurred.

On to Round Three, Wait the match is over??

The match is over at this point. The Xbox 360 CORE continues to sell at astronomical rates. Microsoft will market, push and sell the Xbox 360 CORE version to counter Sony’s PS3 offering.

By this point developers have caught on, they take notice in the shift from Xbox 360 to Xbox 360 CORE; and have shifted away development from supporting the HDD (hard drive). But lets be honest, there were only a few developers that supported the HDD to begin with. J Allard was quoted in the September 2005 issue of Game Informer:

“We’ve said [to developers], ‘Hey look, don’t bank on the hard drive always being there,’” he revealed. “‘There may be a scenario in the future where we don’t want to have a hard drive, and in that case, we have to make sure that the games that you’ve created are accessible to the broadest possible audience.’”

The few developers that actually supported the HDD at this point have shifted away and focused on supporting the Xbox 360 CORE only. Developers feel supporting a minority of the ‘hardcore gamers’ is not worth the effort considering at this point the majority of the Xbox 360 consumer base is without a HDD.

The Xbox 360 CORE has won the match against its older brother; however will it win against the PS3? That is another story.

I’m crying foul – The fix is in, the fix is in!

Now after describing that lengthy scenario lets get to the meat of this article. Microsoft from day one planned this entire strategy out. They released two SKU’s to compete against each other, by overpricing accessories it becomes clear to consumers that the premium priced Xbox 360 console is the better ‘bang for the buck’ version. It is in the mind of ‘hardcore gamers’ that a hard drive is essential to enhance game play and graphics. The idea behind this two SKU strategy was to appease the ‘hardcore gamers’ with the Xbox 360 version and offer a base product to the casual gamer – Xbox 360 CORE. At the same time the ‘hardcore gamer’ subsidized the Xbox 360 consoles by paying a higher premium.

Looking back at comments that Peter Moore and J Allard made it is very clear that: yes, the fix was in since the beginning. Microsoft’s plan was to always have the Xbox 360 CORE become the victor in this battle between titans. By ditching the HDD (hard drive), Microsoft can continually drop the price of the Xbox 360 CORE SKU to combat against Sony’s PS3. On the other hand by including a hard drive Microsoft will always be stuck at a certain price point that is beyond their control; thus making it harder to cut costs and under-cut Sony’s pricing.

However, Microsoft did this at the cost of being deceptive to their ‘hardcore gamer’ customer base. The HDD has become nothing more than a glorified memory card at this point and to be honest if Microsoft can defeat Sony – it will be at any cost. Microsoft knows a few of the ‘hardcore gamers’ will not be pleased when HDD support is all but dropped by developers. But Microsoft feels they can counter this by releasing quality software titles, Xbox Live content and thus having those ‘hardcore gamers’ completely forget how they were used and manipulated to buy an overpriced memory card – (HDD)

Yes the aborted brother Xbox 360 CORE won. But will games suffer in quality because the lack of the HDD support? Will graphics, game play, download content suffer when the HDD support is dropped? We will never really know because the potential of the HDD will be unknown.,,,

Long but frighteningly prophetic IMO.

 

[Gantz]

I wish consoles would had 1 gig of memory, upgradeable hard drives, 256 meg video memory, 16x dvd drives, etc.. :lol

 

[The Abominable Snowman]

Nope.

It's a Gawdzirra (Godzilla) movie.

 

[maynerd]

Does this mean we cant use 3rd party USB drives/wi-fi adapters/etc because all of those require read/write operations? Thats fucked up. They are basically forcing ppl to buy their official addons.

And this somehow surprises you?

 

[sonycowboy]

It's a Gawdzirra (Godzilla) movie.

Nope.

 

[xsarien]

Nope.

Gung-Ho?

 

[Striek]

Posted by
PKG on majornelson.com -




Long but frighteningly prophetic IMO.

He assumes a $300 core X360 vs. a $500 PS3. Not exactly the most realistic scenario.

 

[krypt0nian]

He assumes a $300 core X360 vs. a $500 PS3. Not exactly the most realistic scenario.

What woule be more realistic to you? Hell even if its $300 360 to $400 PS3 it holds merit.

EDIT - and the point was Core vs 360. Not 360 vs PS3. That's a whole nother ball o wax.

 

[DECK'ARD]

If this was a poker game Microsoft would be holding a pair of 2's. Sony is one card shy from a royal flush, and Nintendo is sitting there giggling like a maniac, You don't know if he has something or if he's batshit insane.

Very good way of putting it!

 

[sonycowboy]

Gung-Ho?

Nope.

Hint: It's the only Japanese reference in the entire movie (that I'm aware of)

 

[Lunar Aura]

great read kryptO. i say the core will reign supreme and the price of the HD will indeed drop to 59.99. sony launch comes and they are priced at 399+ MS can keep the core around, lower the price of accessories, ditch the premium pack and what do you have? 299 with wireless controller packed in, 60 hard drive optional....360!!!!

 

[maynerd]

Posted by
PKG on majornelson.com -




Long but frighteningly prophetic IMO.

This is how MS has had it planned all along. I am quite certain of that. It's probably their only move to compete. The only problem is, the hardcore gamer suffers.

 

[Deku Tree]

J Allard (Expert):
Q: will the core system come with a memory card? if not, how can u save games?
A: no it does not come with a memory unit. gamers will need an mu or a hard drive to save games with which is consistent with the games industry for the last decade.



fuck you Allard

So the first xbox wasn't really part of the games industry? :lol

 

[sonycowboy]

If this was a poker game Microsoft would be holding a pair of 2's. Sony is one card shy from a royal flush, and Nintendo is sitting there giggling like a maniac, You don't know if he has something or if he's batshit insane.

You do know that that would mean that, not considering Nintendo, that Sony would be an underdog right? Only 1 card would actually give them that royal flush (although 3 others could give them a straight (or 7 depending on if the existing straight was open ended or not), or 4 others could give them a pair. Basically, only 12 cards maximum (probably only 8) out of the deck could possibly help them)

So, Microsoft would be like a 3-1 favorite there.

 

[mj1108]

If this was a poker game Microsoft would be holding a pair of 2's. Sony is one card shy from a royal flush, and Nintendo is sitting there giggling like a maniac, You don't know if he has something or if he's batshit insane.

Probably the best current analogy I've heard.

I wish all the systems had a small amount of built in memory like Saturn did that made buying memory cards optional for people that don't play games with enormous save files (like RPGs) or download new content into the system. Even if it's just a "built in memory card" it saves you some headaches if you're just playing stuff like fighting and racing games. Plus it wouldn't be a point of failure like a built-in HDD can be.

512 megs...

 

[Lunar Aura]

the hardcore doesnt suffer. $700 ps2 anyone? $200 e3 faceplates? $80 for halo 2 including the map packs? $400+ video cards for PC gaming? MS knows what they are doing. it all makes sense now. Think about what the hard drive was REALLY used for this gen. custom soundtracks. usb will help that and a lowered price hard drive down the line will earn MS its microtransactions.

 

[The Abominable Snowman]

The core is such a horrible value, compared to even the PS2. It also compromises Premium pack owners by splitting the market for devs. Microsoft’s stance is that the core pack is mostly for less informed or casual buyers, and that it’s an oppourtunity for the game market to grow. They do so by compromising their fan base and retailers and developers to try and appeal more to the casual market, against their past belief that “If you build the content, they will come”. Casual gamers WILL compare the X360 to all consoles, including the original Xbox. They WILL like to play current generation games on the next generation Xbox. The Core pack WILL cause confusion on their part, especially when they can get a Xbox for 100-150 that WILL doubtlessly play 100% of Xbox games, instead of a 300 console + 100 HD (Remember Allard: They’re not hardcore enough to buy the $400 console) that will at best play 25-50% of Xbox games.

Or they will wait out on the PS3 which will play at least 80% of PS2 games and at least 80% of PS1 games.

The premium pack is an okay value, but the only thing it’s really offering new is wireless controllers. All in all, the hard drive really could have made the 360 stand out, but now it looks a bit underpowered compared to a more powerful, fully featured console (PS3) and a cheaper, just as featured console with a new interface and downloadable Nintendo games across 3 generations and full backwards compatibility. It’s now just a glorified memory card.

Sony tried the 2 SKU deal with the PSP Japanese launch as well. It did not go over well, with retailers basically refusing to stock certain items, and the shelf space hassle. There is a reason why Sony is only offering the more premium priced bundle for all regions. Their core pack handily outsold their value pack, much to the grudge of retailers who began to cut back on core packs. MS should have learned then that 2 SKUs does not make it better, but instead they exacerbate the weakness by offering such a large schism in the market.

512MB Ram is great, but it won’t cut it in the long run. 64MB was a great amount when the Xbox was introduced as well, more than any other console at the time. However, games like Riddick, Halo 2, Doom 3, and Half Life 2 would not be possible without the Hard Drive. They use it as another source of storage, where they can save the entire world data, changes and progress made to the world, and status of objects in the world to the HD, and stream the necessary nearby area to the RAM as needed, extending what little RAM the Xbox had compared to PCs as years went by, making it seem like so much more than it was. They could also use larger savegames to store world data such as body placements as well.

The removal of the Hard Drive as standard means that all world and object data must be saved in RAM, to the detriment of other residual items placed in RAM, whereas with one the RAM could be put to much better use. If they cannot squeeze in changed world data to a size the memcard can hold comfortably, changes such as the'defeated' bodies in Halo will be lost. Developers will also always code their games to take advantage of RAM first and foremost, regardless of a HD. Including HD support becomes much more of a convieniance issue than anything else, something I am willng to bet many devs won't take advantage of on a strict deadline.

As Developers want more out of the system, and PC devs want to port and develop for the system, 512MB will not cut it in 3 to 4 years time. The HD is nonstandard, and despite J Allards’ line of “They will use it if it’s there”, the use that those major Xbox games did with the Xbox’s Hard drive is NOT replicateable WITHOUT the hard drive, meaning that the game will be limited to the Hard Drive owners, and I doubt there is a publisher out there willing to take a chance like that.

Now, don’t tell me devs will go out of their way to provide downloadable content for games as they have for the Xbox. They cannot depend on users being able to download the content. All of the biggest games for Xbox live all make use of downloadable content, or have plans to. Patching is a main concern, as cheat devices or a method to cheat will surface on any system, no matter how secure MS thinks it is.

The price gouging on accessories is also an issue. Wireless controllers are sold to retailers for $36, but in turn sold to us for a suggested retail value of $50, plus the non-included Play and Charge kit (Sold to retailers for $15, MSRP of 20), bringing them to about $70 each for a fully functional one. Faceplates are overpriced, seeing as they apparently carry nothing more than aesthetic value (Sold to retailers for $13, MSRP of $20).

One huge deal with price gouging is the Wi-Fi adapter, sold to retailers for $82, with a MSRP of $99.99. In a market where not-well established and very well established providers can both offer solutions for under $50, it's appaling that Microsoft can offer only a solution at the nearly unreasonable pricepoint of $100. This wasn't a hotly debated issue before, with the last Xbox wireless adapter, but that's because it was not standard in nearly every console before. The PSP, DS, Playstation 3, and Revolution have all gone on to include Wi-Fi out of the box for free, however more limited it may be than MS' solution. That literally makes the Xbox 360 the odd console out when it comes to wi-fi. There's not a positive spin for this when consumers compare it to the competing consoles and handhelds all vying for the same cash and resources. If you must sell it separately, at least make it at a price that's fair, or provide us with a chance at getting an alternative.

All of this, and MS has a major threat in the PS3 looming. instead of making the Xbox 360 the obvious solution to those on the fence with the PS3, they give it even more questionmarks than it had a mere week ago. The Europeans are finally not jerked around on prices (Well, maybe a little bit), but at the compromise of the largest market? The Playstation brand is still strong, and MS has not announced one single large-hitting, smash hit franchise game exclusive for the X360. Halo is in the wings, but it is not shown yet. If the media and the Goldeneye franchise is any indication, PD has lost it’s fire. PGR is the closest, but PGR2 barely snapped 800K worldwide. Madden is multiplatform. This industry is driven on licensed titles and sequels, and yet the 2 big Xbox 360 (Licensed/sequel) games are from EA. Sony have already shown Devil May Cry, Metal Gear Solid 4, and Grand Turismo.

MS: You said you wanted to expand the market. Do something to expand it, and not let the oppourtunity (and competitors) pass you by.

 

[maynerd]

the hardcore doesnt suffer. $700 ps2 anyone? $200 e3 faceplates? $80 for halo 2 including the map packs? $400+ video cards for PC gaming? MS knows what they are doing. it all makes sense now. Think about what the hard drive was REALLY used for this gen. custom soundtracks. usb will help that and a lowered price hard drive down the line will earn MS its microtransactions.

Sure they do, the hardcore will buy the more expensive pack with the HD which in the end is a glorified memory card. All of the people who are being duped by MS with their PR speak on how developers will be using the HD for games other than saves is just deceptive.

 

[Lunar Aura]

no. thats where the GAMES come into play. hello? isnt this about games anyway? Awesome game comes out right? killer app. everyone buys said killer app. The hardcore, leading the 360 base buys DLC for the killer app and core buyers are left wanting more. what now? The price of the HD has been lowered right? BUY. at the lower price core buyers see it as a better value from what it was at launch and MS wins all around.

"512 wont cut it"

:lol this isnt PC gaming for 1 and for 2 256 wouldnt have cut it. when MS bumped it to 512 a collective sigh of relief could be heard because the 360 would now indeed last 5 years+ for the devs without worry. Hell PC gaming will be dead in 2 years anyway.

 

[Striek]

What woule be more realistic to you? Hell even if its $300 360 to $400 PS3 it holds merit.

EDIT - and the point was Core vs 360. Not 360 vs PS3. That's a whole nother ball o wax.

His whole basis has to do with the PS3 and its impact in the core vs. 360 scenario. According to him the core is positioned to take the lead over the 360 because a $500 PS3 is out of range and a $300 pricepoint will seem quite reasonable and is affordable to the general public. Realistic to me is Sony aren't going to price their system $200 above their competition. $400 sure, thats reasonable and realistic. And in that scenario many buyers would question the merit of buying a $300 core over a $400 PS3.

 

[maynerd]

no. thats where the GAMES come into play. hello? isnt this about games anyway? Awesome game comes out right? killer app. everyone buys said killer app. The hardcore, leading the 360 base buys DLC for the killer app and core buyers are left wanting more. what now? The price of the HD has been lowered right? BUY. at the lower price core buyers see it as a better value from what it was at launch and MS wins all around.

Oh my mistake let me revise that. MS is screwing the Hardcore gamer and the casual gamer as well. And I am talking about games. We want games that would take advantage of the full potential of the X360 to utilize the full potential of the system it would take the use of the HD. The way things are going developers won't take advantage of the HD. So yes I am talking about games.

 

[TheOMan]

You do know that that would mean that, not considering Nintendo, that Sony would be an underdog right? Only 1 card would actually give them that royal flush (although 3 others could give them a straight (or 7 depending on if the existing straight was open ended or not), or 4 others could give them a pair. Basically, only 12 cards maximum (probably only 8) out of the deck could possibly help them)

So, Microsoft would be like a 3-1 favorite there.

Good point - unless, Sony has already made a pair and is on the way to a royal flush as well which is possible.