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[VALIS]

If you guys don't like these bundles then DON'T BUY THEM. The main way to get the point across to them is to do it with the power of the purse.

You'd think it would be that easy, wouldn't you? But following that avenue of common sense robs people of their chance to feel important and grab attention by over-dramatically bitching about shit on a message board.

Between the Zelda delay and the 360 pricing you'd think it was announced killer bees are headed our way. It's astonishing.

 

[Musashi Wins!]

just to give a heads up to the thread I'll be starting in the morning. Title in progress:

"J ALLARD SUPPORTS KILLER BEES INSTEAD OF HD ERA: SOURCE INSIDE"

 

[FiRez]

J. ALLARD IS TRYING TO BOYCOTT THE XBOX PROJECT FROM THE INSIDE

 

[VALIS]

OMG IT'S A SECOND SKU!! IT'S GOING TO KILL THAT BOY!!

 

[IJoel]

And yet none of this mattered in the long run for MS in terms of $$$$. It's really not that hard to see why they're going the route they are.

I'm sure they looked at what they offered with the XB and then saw how they were still being bitch slapped by Sony and had to come to the conclusion that the advantage of including an HDD vs. losing $$$ & still getting their lunch handed to them by inferior comp wasnt worth it. Most of the hardcore loved it and ate it up but thats not where the money is.

There's no way in the world that making the HDD an option (aka Retard Pack) is a plus for MS outside of benefitting the bottom line. That's it. There is no other argument.

I don't care about where the money is for MS, I care about what I get as a customer. A Xbox 360 without HDD is a step backwards from the Xbox.

I do understand their approach, but I think they could've done this better. An example would've been to require games to work without the HDD just as they are doing now. Only include a Single SKU with a HDD included for the first couple of years to make sure there's enough userbase to warrant developers to put effort into their games to support this userbase. They could've offered a streamline version of the console later on.

The main reason I've preferred Xbox this generation has been, aside from some of my favorite games showing up on it, that it was a really great value.

 

[----]

Originally Posted by ----:
"So now much like the PSP to DS, not only is Sony going to sell their console for much more than the 360 core, but they're also going to sell a lot more of them. Once again Sony wins big time."


What?

It's a simple point. What don't you understand? PSP = $250, DS = $150 yet PSP is outselling DS by a huge margin in America every single month. I'm saying the same thing will happen to the Xbox 360 core vs. PS3.

Playstation was more expensive than the N64 too and that didn't help Nintendo. The point I'm making is crucial to understand. MS is largely focused on beating Sony on price, yet having a lower price than Sony never helps when your product is perceived by consumers as being inferior. Same goes for the electronics industry where Sony typically charges more than their competitors and still outsells them.

If people perceive PS3 as being much better than Xbox 360 core, it's not going to matter how much cheaper the Xbox 360 is.

If you guys don't like these bundles then DON'T BUY THEM. The main way to get the point across to them is to do it with the power of the purse.

We represent such a small portion of the business that MS is targetting it's not even funny. What we buy or don't buy is largely irrelevant. The only thing that matters is the casual gamers reaction to all this. They'll either somehow be smart enough to see value in the more expensive premium edition (highly unlikely), be completely turned off by the Xbox 360 due to all this widespread negativity (who knows), or eventually snatch up the cheapass retard pack version with a million copies of Need For Speed and Madden sequels (very likely).

I gotta imagine the media is going to have some really negative things to write about the Xbox 360 going forward from this point. MS basically made the entire games media lie to their readers and spread false information in their effort to build up hype for the Xbox 360. I still have the EGM, Gamepro, and Game Informer magazines where they did the features breakdown of each console versus each other. All of them were telling their readers that the HDD was standard, as were wireless controllers, HDTV output, etc. This is not how you go about building up momentum in the months leading up to your consoles launch unless you are Sega.

 

[sprsk]

This thread is an abortion

 

[Drinky Crow]

i would like to hear what velocity girl thinks of all this

 

[----]

i would like to hear what velocity girl thinks of all this

She's probably very upset that she'll only be able to sell her designs to a small portion of the Xbox 360 userbase that has any room left on their memory cards. Who knows maybe Velocity Girl is so bummed out that she already slit her wrists.

 

[Firest0rm]

It's a simple point. What don't you understand? PSP = $250, DS = $150 yet PSP is outselling DS by a huge margin in America every single month. I'm saying the same thing will happen to the Xbox 360 core vs. PS3.

Yet in Japan its the opposite. It has less to do with the pricing and more to do with the software, which is whats holding DS back in the US.

 

[DCharlie]

"i would like to hear what velocity girl thinks of all this"

you can download her whitepaper "X360 prices : XXX rated 120 times" for a bargain $9.99

 

[Suikoguy]

She's probably very upset that she'll only be able to sell her designs to a small portion of the Xbox 360 userbase that has any room left on their memory cards. Who knows maybe Velocity Girl is so bummed out that she already slit her wrists.

"Girl hospitalized due to attempted suicide over upcoming gaming console, more news at 11"

 

[Shompola]

I still do not know what velocity girl is? Only know it is PR thing MS came up with?'

 

[The Abominable Snowman]

I still do not know what velocity girl is? Only know it is PR thing MS came up with?'

TEHEHEHE! I don't play games, but i make game levels and sell them to poor unfortunate saps for dough.

 

[Mrbob]

TEHEHEHE! I don't play games, but i make game levels and sell them to poor unfortunate saps for dough.

Looks like MS cut her off with the core pack, too. Damn them.

 

[whytemyke]

it wouldnt be GAF without them! :lol

Dude... I can't keep my mouth shut on this. You pull out stock charts to try to hide your obvious M$ partisanship, and that's fine. You try comparing a 5 year stock chart to a 20 year stock chart when comparing overall growth, to show that Sony has slid over five years (after DESTROYING M$ in growth the first 15). And then you bring up the fact that Sony's stock price dropped in the last five years (without mentioning the SPLIT that happened in 2001 or 2002), and most of all you neglect the fact that over the past year, while competition was in it's prime, Sony still managed to grow and in the past five years, four of which have been spent with competition for their LARGEST PRODUCT, to only lose a whopping total of 8%.

And then you have the gall to tell other people that they have fuzzy math, to say nothing of the fact that you're using inaccurately read charts as the basic measure for the general morale of shareholders in a company? Because, of course, EVERYONE that works on the Stock Market knows that THE PRICE of a stock DIRECTLY REFLECT THE ATTITUDE OF THE SHAREHOLDERS.

But naturally we can assume that by your excellent analysis of Sony stocks, Lunar, that the good shareholders at Sony were sooo dissatisfied with the performance of the company that they KEPT their board of directors. You know, just to show them their disapproval. Because shareholders keep people around who make them unhappy, right?
-----

Anyways, off of the sidetrack. It seems that the Xbox team raelly is trying to rush things to get it out the door. As someone pointed out earlier (I believe Lunar, actually) Sony did the same thing with the PS2, hence the bugs and the shit library, and it seemed to work alright for them. While unpreparedness isn't a deathknell for a system, it definitely doesn't help it either. Although, as history has shown, a company CAN rebound.

As for the price? I'd bet quite a bit that the main reason they're going for $400 is that so they can get a decent size price drop in when the PS3/Revolution launches come around. I mean, it's SOOOO unlike Microsoft to undercut the competition, isn't it?

 

[DopeyFish]

I still do not know what velocity girl is? Only know it is PR thing MS came up with?'

it's one of many "scenarios" they assigned a name to. they have a lot more, but it's what they used to try to make xbox 360 accessible to as many people as possible.

 

[Chrono]

Rising Sun?

Nope.

In the Line of Fire

Spoiler

(when Malkovich was disguised as a businessman)

?

 

[sonycowboy]

In the Line of Fire

Spoiler

(when Malkovich was disguised as a businessman)

?

Bingo.

My wife said it was an unfair quote because it's not relevant to the movie at all, but I say it was memorable, so it's fair game

Also, I totally screwed up my Poker odds before. There are a TON of outs of you're one card away from a Royal Flush (assuming 5 card stud, NOT Texas HoldEm, which messes things up because of community card)

1 card will give you the royal flush
3 other cards will give you the straight, 7 other if you've got the open ended straight (1 would be a straight flush)
7 other cards could give you a flush (the other two are counted above)
12 cards could pair you up
--------------------------------
27 cards out of the 40 card remaining could help you (but Microsoft or Nintendo could also be holding them).

In any case, I think the 1 card away would be a ~2-1 favorite in the had described before, as I missed the opportunity for a flush as well as messing up the cards that could pair you up.

In Texas holdem, the royal flush reacher would also be a 2-1 favorite.

 

[Geek]

My wife said it was an unfair quote because it's not relevant to the movie at all, but I say it was memorable, so it's fair game

I envy your relationship (one in which you can discuss your video game message board posting habits freely).

 

[DarienA]

I envy your relationship (one in which you can discuss your video game message board posting habits freely).

My missus loves reading some of the stuff here... and some of it scares her too....

 

[Piepz]

A little offtopic, but are there any Component to RGB (Scart) convertors ? I live in Europe and my TV doesn't have any component inputs, only 3x RGB. A link to some kind of store or page with info would be very nice!
Thanks in advance!

 

[Chittagong]

I still do not know what velocity girl is? Only know it is PR thing MS came up with?'

She's the one on right

 

[Project Midway]

A little offtopic, but are there any Component to RGB (Scart) convertors ? I live in Europe and my TV doesn't have any component inputs, only 3x RGB. A link to some kind of store or page with info would be very nice!
Thanks in advance!

Yes there are (dont know where you can buy them, but I have seen them.), and you can buy a separate RGB scart cable for Xbox 360.

also check out this pic:

http://www.360updates.com/msconfisdent360news.JPG

 

[Piepz]

Yes there are (dont know where you can buy them, but I have seen them.), and you can buy a separate RGB scart cable for Xbox 360.

also check out this pic:

http://www.360updates.com/msconfisdent360news.JPG

I think that's composite convertor. I have some of those at home.
I saw RGB cable for X360 (official, I guess) in play.com for ~20 pounds.
The question is, will that cable work with NTSC X360, because I plan to import one from US...

 

[Project Midway]

I think that's composite convertor. I have some of those at home.
I saw RGB cable for X360 (official, I guess) in play.com for ~20 pounds.
The question is, will that cable work with NTSC X360, because I plan to import one from US...

Well atleast RGB SCART cable works with a NTSC Xbox1... but dont know about xbox 360. I cant see any reason why it wouldnt work. But you never know....MS ripped off 480p support from euro xboxes for example.

 

[Piepz]

Well atleast RGB SCART cable works with a NTSC Xbox1... but dont know about xbox 360. I cant see any reason why it wouldnt work. But you never know....MS ripped off 480p support from euro xboxes for example.

I've NTSC GCN, I bought PAL RGB cable and the video quality is terrible. Even S-video cable do better than that RGB cable.
So I was thinking, maybe the same will happen with X360...

 

[scarybore]

I've NTSC GCN, I bought PAL RGB cable and the video quality is terrible. Even S-video cable do better than that RGB cable.
So I was thinking, maybe the same will happen with X360...

That will be because NTSC GCs dont output RGB signal, your PAL cable is useless with it. You need to get a modified Component cable to output RGB from a NTSC cube (and these are reasonably expensive).

NTSC GCs do output S-Video signal however, while PAL GCs don't. Nintendo just can't stop screwing some customer over if it sames them a dollar.

 

[Piepz]

That will be because NTSC GCs dont output RGB signal, your PAL cable is useless with it. You need to get a modified Component cable to output RGB from a NTSC cube (and these are reasonably expensive).

OK, will NTSC X360s output RGB signal ?

 

[scarybore]

OK, will NTSC X360s output RGB signal ?

No idea, but as Project Midway stated with the original Xbox you could. The only sure fire way to find out is to wait for release or send a email to J Allard or something (preferably with lots of cuss words).

 

[Piepz]

No idea, but as Project Midway stated with the original Xbox you could. The only sure fire way to find out is to wait for release or send a email to J Allard or something (preferably with lots of cuss words).

What's his e-mail? I think he'll just ignore it, but I can give it a try at least...

 

[scarybore]

What's his e-mail? I think he'll just ignore it, but I can give it a try at least...

No idea, wasnt being entirely serious but try jallard@microsoft.com or something ;p

 

[Stinkles]

GAF.

Event: Xbox 360 costs $100 more than GAFers hoped for.

Reaction: "I feel like I've been beaten down and dumped on the street corner like a worn-out crack-whore."


That's an actual, verbatim reaction. And not even an extreme one. Take deep breaths everyone, and ask yourselves, "What the fuck is wrong with us?"

 

[Piepz]

GAF.

Event: Xbox 360 costs $100 more than GAFers hoped for.

Reaction: "I feel like I've been beaten down and dumped on the street corner like a worn-out crack-whore."


That's an actual, verbatim reaction. And not even an extreme one. Take deep breaths everyone, and ask yourselves, "What the fuck is wrong with us?"

I feel that because of retard pack and hdd not being standart.
One SKU for 399$ would be ok with me

 

[Ponn]

GAF.

Event: Xbox 360 costs $100 more than GAFers hoped for.

Reaction: "I feel like I've been beaten down and dumped on the street corner like a worn-out crack-whore."


That's an actual, verbatim reaction. And not even an extreme one. Take deep breaths everyone, and ask yourselves, "What the fuck is wrong with us?"

But if you have been actually reading what people have been posting that is not the problem most people are really having with this whole thing.

 

[human5892]

But if you have been actually reading what people have been posting that is not the problem most people are really having with this whole thing.

Plus, Stinkles is acting as if he has never encountered the usage of hyperbole.

Of course, if the person who wrote that meant it literally, then I agree with Stinkles.

 

[IJoel]

GAF.

Event: Xbox 360 costs $100 more than GAFers hoped for.

Reaction: "I feel like I've been beaten down and dumped on the street corner like a worn-out crack-whore."


That's an actual, verbatim reaction. And not even an extreme one. Take deep breaths everyone, and ask yourselves, "What the fuck is wrong with us?"

Oh, come on. If you bother to read the posts you'll notice the big deal is the split userbase. And it's not only GAF. You can check IGN and even Major Nelson's blog comments area.

I'm tired of it anyway, but it's still disappointing.

I also think many will be surprised if they think they'll get a Blu-Ray barebones PS3 for $299. I'm expecting one PS3 SKU same as the core Xbox 360 one for $399. I think it would be a good value considering one gets the Blu-Ray player and a built in Wireless Adapted though (not that the Xbox 360 Core price is a bad value at all.)

 

[Dr_Cogent]

GAF.

Event: Xbox 360 costs $100 more than GAFers hoped for.

Reaction: "I feel like I've been beaten down and dumped on the street corner like a worn-out crack-whore."


That's an actual, verbatim reaction. And not even an extreme one. Take deep breaths everyone, and ask yourselves, "What the fuck is wrong with us?"

Who said anything about being beaten down and dumped on the street corner like a crack whore?

We disagree with MS's pricing structure. It's bub-kiss. We also don't appreciate being lied to. Most people don't and a lot of people react as such when they have been.

Hard Drive this. Xbox Live that. Backwards compatability those. Stinkles, you like it - we don't.

J Allard constantly trumped up the "wireless this" "wireless that" shit, and the fact that a hard drive is so crucial for the thing as well. Don't tell us he didn't. Then they pull the rug out from under us and say - Hard drive? Wireless controllers? Hi-def cables? More money you fuckers.

Sorry, homey don't play that.

 

[Jeff-DSA]

Who said anything about being beaten down and dumped on the street corner like a crack whore?

We disagree with MS's pricing structure. It's bub-kiss. We also don't appreciate being lied to. Most people don't and a lot of people react as such when they have been.

Hard Drive this. Xbox Live that. Backwards compatability those. Stinkles, you like it - we don't.

No kidding...

It's the lies and insane amount of money required for accessories that piss me off. $400 isn't so bad, but you get raped once you start picking up any accessories.

 

[Stinkles]

Who said anything about being beaten down and dumped on the street corner like a crack whore?

We disagree with MS's pricing structure. It's bub-kiss. We also don't appreciate being lied to. Most people don't and a lot of people react as such when they have been.

Hard Drive this. Xbox Live that. Backwards compatability those. Stinkles, you like it - we don't.

A GAF poster sdaid it, three pages back. I didn't say I liked it. I suggested that the forum was being reactionary and emotional and ignoring logic. But then it's a forum, so surprise, surprise.

 

[DarienA]

A GAF poster sdaid it, three pages back. I didn't say I liked it. I suggested that the forum was being reactionary and emotional and ignoring logic. But then it's a forum, so surprise, surprise.

OMG one person said... that means toss out all the intelligent opinions given!

 

[urk]

I agree with Stinkles. That guy has moxie.

Everybody is bitching about a split base even though few developers will design games that require the drive.

The other complaint is about nickle and diming for accessories. Guess what kiddies, the $100 hard drive has been in existence for years. You can pick one up for your PS2. People don't talk about a the fractured Sony user base, or being nickle and dimed for a lousy drive that is good for pratically nothing, or having developers cater to the lowest common denominator.

Maybe we should wait and see the finalized PS3, specs and pricing, before we go all nutso on the 360.

 

[DarienA]

I agree with Stinkles. That guy has moxie.

Everybody is bitching about a split base even though few developers will design games that require the drive.

The other complaint is about nickle and diming for accessories. Guess what kiddies, the $100 hard drive has been in existence for years. You can pick one up for your PS2. People don't talk about a the fractured Sony user base, or being nickle and dimed for a lousy drive that is good for pratically nothing, or having developers cater to the lowest common denominator.

Maybe we should wait and see the finalized PS3, specs and pricing, before we go all nutso on the 360.

The PS2-HDD release comparison fails because the HDD was released quite a bit after the PS2 launched so there was never any real chance of a split here(in the US) because the thing was never really supported by 3rd parties in the first place.... and the second part of your second sentence is exactly what people will bitch about now... with it as an accessories developers definitely won't design games that require the drive, where before at least it was an option that SOME took advantage of... if MS(this coming gen) had kept banging at developers pointing out what they could do with the HDD we might have seen more this gen... but that's not going to happen now.

 

[urk]

The PS2-HDD release comparison fails because the HDD was released quite a bit after the PS2 launched so there was never any real chance of a split here(in the US) because the thing was never really supported by 3rd parties in the first place.

Launch or not, Sony is still selling that drive for an arm and a leg and nobody is complaining.

Since we know now that developers, save MMO folks, will not requite the drive, then how is the base split? It works identically for FFXI on the PS2. Same developer model. Same price to the consumer.

 

[Deku Tree]

The other complaint is about nickle and diming for accessories. Guess what kiddies, the $100 hard drive has been in existence for years. You can pick one up for your PS2. People don't talk about a the fractured Sony user base, or being nickle and dimed for a lousy drive that is good for pratically nothing, or having developers cater to the lowest common denominator.

The point is that the HDD was standard on the xbox, not the PS2. It was touted by MS marketing as a major advantage of the xbox over the PS2. And many people bought into the xbox because of the technological advantages.

Now they are backing off the HDD and falling back on the argument that the market leader doesn't have it so why should we... it's a complete 180 turn in terms of their selling point for their system. Naturally people are going to be upset.

 

[DarienA]

Launch or not, Sony is still selling that drive for an arm and a leg and nobody is complaining.

Since we know now that developers, save MMO folks, will not requite the drive, then how is the base split. It works identically for FFXI on the PS2. Same developer model. Same price to the consumer.

No one is complaining because there was no HD in the PSOne to have a perception built up that the PS2 would have a HD.

The PS2 launched... later on a HD came.... it wasn't well supported, no one cared, there was never a chance for a split because of how late in the life of the PS2(US) the thing was released.

The Xbox launched with a HD built in. It was supported... at different levels, so of course there's going to be the perception built up that a successor console wouldn't LOSE a feature that it's predecessor had.

Regardless of whether it's actually technically a big deal...

 

[urk]

Developers are using the hard drive. They are coding for both scenarios. See Bethesda's work with Oblivion.

If you buy a hard drive, you'll see the benefit.

 

[The Abominable Snowman]

Christ my username is long. It took wayyy too long to log in.

Launch or not, Sony is still selling that drive for an arm and a leg and nobody is complaining.

Since we know now that developers, save MMO folks, will not requite the drive, then how is the base split? It works identically for FFXI on the PS2. Same developer model. Same price to the consumer.

but how much did FFXI (Or Everquest) Sell again?

On top of that, if a requirement of a HD can handicap sales of such a huge franchise, what is it gonna do to a smaller game like Huxley? Vanguard?

I hoped MMOGs would take a more dominant or at least apparent role in console games. How likely is that now?

 

[DarienA]

Developers are using the hard drive. They are coding for both scenarios. See Bethesda's work with Oblivion.

If you buy a hard drive, you'll see the benefit.

I for one applaud Bethesda for that, however if you don't think MOST developers(especially those making multi-platform titles EA, Activision) are going to generally take the easiest route and code for the lowest common denominator(no HD), then you're kidding yourself.

 

[The Abominable Snowman]

Developers are using the hard drive. They are coding for both scenarios. See Bethesda's work with Oblivion.

If you buy a hard drive, you'll see the benefit.

Sorry, but too many people bring up this stupid point. That's not what we are talking about. That's when devs use the HD for just streaming and caching to speed loading

We're talking about more extensive use of the HD which would require a major retooling of the game for the game to not run without the HD.