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[urk]

I for one applaud Bethesda for that, however if you don't think MOST developers are going to take the easiest route and code for the lowest common denominator(no HD), then you're kidding yourself.

I think developers want to sell as many games as possible. That means putting the best product that they can on store shelves. If you don't think that teams will utilize the drive to make better games, then you are kidding yourself. Not to mention, you are ignoring the launch titles that are already doing so.

So what's left?

The drive doesn't frangment the user base (See Oblivion, yay!)

It costs the same as Sony's last gen drive that was far more worthless (and you can tote it to a friends house with all your shit on it).

If you don't want it, you don't have to buy it (go with the retard pack).

 

[urk]

We're talking about more extensive use of the HD which would require a major retooling of the game for the game to not run without the HD.

Such as?

 

[sonycowboy]

I think developers want to sell as many games as possible. That means putting the best product that they can on store shelves. If you don't think that teams will utilize the drive to make better games, then you are kidding yourself. Not to mention, you are ignoring the launch titles that are already doing so.

So what's left?

The drive doesn't frangment the user base (See Oblivion, yay!)

It costs the same as Sony's last gen drive that was far more worthless (and you can tote it to a friends house with all your shit on it).

If you don't want it, you don't have to buy it (go with the retard pack).

There were a few differences

1) It was a 40GB drive
2) It came with Final Fantasy XI

3) It required the Network Adapter

 

[DarienA]

I think developers want to sell as many games as possible. That means putting the best product that they can on store shelves.

So many titles on the shelves right now go against these two statements I don't even know how you typed them.

If you don't think that teams will utilize the drive to make better games, then you are kidding yourself. Not to mention, you are ignoring the launch titles that are already doing so.

Which launch titles(considering to my knowledge no titles have been confirmed for launch) are using the HD to what degree if I might inquire?

It costs the same as Sony's last gen drive that was far more worthless (and you can tote it to a friends house with all your shit on it).

I see this mentioned alot... and I'm wondering.. how exactly is this going to work... are you able to do some type of hot swap during games startup process to load stuff from you and your friends HDD?

 

[human5892]

There were a few differences

1) It was a 40GB drive
2) It came with Final Fantasy XI

3) It required the Network Adapter

Also:

4.) Time has passed, which is why Microsoft and its loyal fans should seriously stop talking about PS2 in comparison to the Xbox360

 

[Flo_Evans]

Launch or not, Sony is still selling that drive for an arm and a leg and nobody is complaining.

Since we know now that developers, save MMO folks, will not requite the drive, then how is the base split? It works identically for FFXI on the PS2. Same developer model. Same price to the consumer.

nein.

the PS2 HDD came with FFXI. So it was $50. And I don't know where you are from but everyone was pretty much pissed at the PS2 HDD situation.

 

[urk]

There were a few differences

1) It was a 40GB drive
2) It came with Final Fantasy XI

3) It required the Network Adapter

True. It also required:

1)Internal installation (ie. not portable)
2)PlayOnline monthly subscription

3)Another $40.00 for the adapter

Talk about nickle and diming you to death. How much did people actually shell out to play FFXI? Jesus.

So many titles on the shelves right now go against these two statements I don't even know how you typed them.?

We're talking about developers who don't cut corners. Top tier folks who pump out games you want to play. Who really gives a shit of the next-gen Yu-Gi-Oh uses the hard drive? Shitty devs will keep churning out crap. Are you really concerned about them?

 

[The Abominable Snowman]

Such as?

Urgh

Doom 3 loaded the entire world map (As in the level you are playing) to the HD, and saved all changes you made to the HD (Zombies disappeared in this game though, except when you go to hell). As you moved through a corridor, onlu the area around you would load to RAM in real time as you moved. That's how it was possible with that calibur of graphics on the Xbox.

Sans HD? Well, loading would be very prevalent, and the graphics likely tuned down so that part of the RAM can be partitioned to saving the changed parts of the world map. Lots, and lots, of loading to even achieve that level of graphics, rendering it not nearly as high quality. Probably so shitty it would not even pass MS' QA

 

[DarienA]

True. It also required:

1)Internal installation (ie. not portable)

Whoa, whoa, whoa... While the installation wasn't as catchy and slick looking as the X360's removable drive the HD, Network adapter combo is easily portable.

We're talking about developers who don't cut corners. Top tier folks who pump out games you want to play. Who really gives a shit of the next-gen Yu-Gi-Oh uses the hard drive? Shitty devs will keep churning out crap. Are you really concerned about them?

I'm curious to know how you know which dev's will turn out tomorrow's hits?

 

[rastex]

I for one applaud Bethesda for that, however if you don't think MOST developers(especially those making multi-platform titles EA, Activision) are going to generally take the easiest route and code for the lowest common denominator(no HD), then you're kidding yourself.

Well the arguably more successful console of the next generation most likely won't have a HDD standard either, so having a HDD in the 360 standard would've been moot if you're going to use the LCD. And I think that was Allard's point in the chat. 80% of consoles in the current gen don't have an HDD, and yet the top-end developers still program for it in mind (Splinter Cell, etc). So a similar situation will occur with the 360. Crappy developers are always going to be crappy, and great developers are going to be great, minor variations in the hardware aren't going to change that.

If people are pissed off about splitting the userbase, then they're really pissed off about nothing.

 

[Jesiatha]

Do you guys really think that the percentage of 360s with a HDD is going to be as low as the percentage of PS2s with a HDD? Especially among the hard core gaming crowd, I expect the HDD to be very common.

As far as developers using it - not everyone had Live, but a ton of games (including multiplatform) targeted it, because it boosted sales among the hardcore audience. HDD may well do the same this time.

Lastly, the two big benefits of the HDD which apply to EVERY game (custom soundtracks and giant save game storage) are going to be handled by the system this time, so they will work on every game. A good percentage of games didn't even get both of these right last gen.

I wish that the HDD was included with every system, but I don't think the sky is falling. The hard core audience that wants the benefits of the hard drive will buy them, and the games targeting that audience will make use of it. Feel free to keep complaining about accessory prices though

 

[urk]

Urgh

Doom 3 loaded the entire world map (As in the level you are playing) to the HD, and saved all changes you made to the HD (Zombies disappeared in this game though, except when you go to hell). As you moved through a corridor, onlu the area around you would load to RAM in real time as you moved. That's how it was possible with that calibur of graphics on the Xbox.

So they using caching and streaming? They can still do that. Easily. The fracture will look something like this:

No drive = load screens
Drive = seamless

Darien,

Portable as in you can open your PS2 bay, uninstall the drive, and then cart it around. Using that definition, the hard drive in my desktop system is technically portable. Thumbs up. Using that definition everything is portable.

 

[DarienA]

Well the arguably more successful console of the next generation most likely won't have a HDD standard either, so having a HDD in the 360 standard would've been moot if you're going to use the LCD. And I think that was Allard's point in the chat. 80% of consoles in the current gen don't have an HDD, and yet the top-end developers still program for it in mind (Splinter Cell, etc). So a similar situation will occur with the 360. Crappy developers are always going to be crappy, and great developers are going to be great, minor variations in the hardware aren't going to change that.

If people are pissed off about splitting the userbase, then they're really pissed off about nothing.

So Allard's message is we aren't going to offer a HDD built in this generation because no one else does? That's brilliant.

....and now the HDD is a minor variation... I really must have missed this current generation... because I could have sworn folks were trumpeting it as a major variation compared to the PS2 and GC..

Must have dreamt all of that.

EDIT:

Darien,

Portable as in you can open your PS2 bay, uninstall the drive, and then cart it around. Using that definition, the hard drive in my desktop system is technically portable. Thumbs up. Using that definition everything is portable.

With the HD in your PC you need to power the unit off, open it up and remove cables, when the PS2 you power the unit off and unscrew the network adapter and slide the HD out.

Yes the X360's drive is much more portable because it's been fashioned to be portable with it's housing, but there's not much more required to remove a PS2 HDD.

And if you'd answer my question on how that portability helps when you and your friend have stuff you want to use in the game I'd appreciate it(I haven't seen any description on how that's suppose to work).

 

[Reilly]

Do you guys really think that the percentage of 360s with a HDD is going to be as low as the percentage of PS2s with a HDD? Especially among the hard core gaming crowd, I expect the HDD to be very common.

I'm sure Sony thought the same thing when they released their add-on HDD.

 

[mrklaw]

If you treat the HDD as a big memory card, at least you're getting alot of space and no need to buy another memory card, for relatively little extra money.

and I *still* don't understand the big deal about it. I think MS tried an experiment with Xbox. Very few games took advantage of the HDD with it as standard, so they are shaking things up a bit.

ipod/USB/PC streaming custom soundtracks is a step forward IMO, and one less reason to need a HDD.

There is a relatively small number of games that would benefit from a HDD. Persistent worlds with slow navigation - MMPORGs. I would think that some *could* require the HDD, or at least really encourage it - look at elder scrolls and probably FFXI for guidance. They are coming out soon and will give an idea of how flexible MS' attitude is.

Or unless you do not consider improved loading times, downloadable content, patches for games and games that require a HDD, such as MMOGs, important.

Let's see how much downloadable content got the PS2 with the HDD or 8 MB memory card.

Improved loading times if you happen to have not played three other games recently? Downloadable content like is already being done on PSP (looks like the little memory stick machine may have more downloadable content than the Xbox); patches shouldn't be needed - proper console certification please.

MMORPGs? Let them require a HDD, or warn of a significantly lessened experience.

I don' t want to pay for a HDD just so a couple of games that I probably won't play will benefit.

consider this last generation where somewhere in the neighborhood of 20% of game consoles had hard drives attached

nice way to let people know how badly you did!

 

[urk]

I'm curious to know how you know which dev's will turn out tomorrow's hits?

Who says that I do. What I do know is that those developers, those who push big teams and back them withmillions of dollars, try to squeeze everything they can out of their platforms. That's why you see top selling franchises taking upwards of three years to develop. These guys aren't taking shortcuts, they aren't coding for the lowest common denominator, and they certainly will use whatever techniques and technology are at their disposal to turn out the next title that sells millions of copies.

If that means coding for a drive and having alternate code when it's missing, then they will do it.

 

[BuzzJive]

Do you guys really think that the percentage of 360s with a HDD is going to be as low as the percentage of PS2s with a HDD? Especially among the hard core gaming crowd, I expect the HDD to be very common.

About as common as the Xbox Live attach rate was this gen you mean? As in 10% at best? After all - the Xbox Live audience is really the same audience targeted with the Hard Drive this time around.

 

[IJoel]

Do you guys really think that the percentage of 360s with a HDD is going to be as low as the percentage of PS2s with a HDD? Especially among the hard core gaming crowd, I expect the HDD to be very common.

As far as developers using it - not everyone had Live, but a ton of games (including multiplatform) targeted it, because it boosted sales among the hardcore audience. HDD may well do the same this time.

Lastly, the two big benefits of the HDD which apply to EVERY game (custom soundtracks and giant save game storage) are going to be handled by the system this time, so they will work on every game. A good percentage of games didn't even get both of these right last gen.

I wish that the HDD was included with every system, but I don't think the sky is falling. The hard core audience that wants the benefits of the hard drive will buy them, and the games targeting that audience will make use of it. Feel free to keep complaining about accessory prices though

The problem is that there are no assurances that MS will continue offering the Premium Pack as an alternative for the same relative price (in comparison to the Core Pack.) And all MS has shown recently leads us to believe they'll drop it as soon as possible to stop bleeding because they are obviously losing more money with that pack. After that a $99 drive with no real advantage, other than being a bigger memory unit, won't be enough to sway the casual consumer to buy it.

 

[Flo_Evans]

1)Internal installation (ie. not portable)

I guess you never saw this (true it was japan only, but there was a external PS2 HDD)

2)PlayOnline monthly subscription

what does this have to do with the HDD? it is the cost of the FF. Every MMORPG has a monthly fee.

Talk about nickle and diming you to death. How much did people actually shell out to play FFXI? Jesus.

I paid $50. Of course I got it on my PC because I could see the fucked up situation with the PS2 HD and how it was only going to be used for FF. Now the x360 HD is in the same situation, you just can't see it yet.

 

[DarienA]

Who says that I do. What I do know is that those developers, those who push big teams and back them withmillions of dollars, try to squeeze everything they can out of their platforms. That's why you see top selling franchises taking upwards of three years to develop. These guys aren't taking shortcuts, they aren't coding for the lowest common denominator, and they certainly will use whatever techniques and technology are at their disposal to turn out the next title that sells millions of copies.

If that means coding for a drive and having alternate code when it's missing, then they will do it.

Of course not all of even today's hits come from the large teams you've just described....

 

[sonycowboy]

So they using caching and streaming? They can still do that. Easily. The fracture will look something like this:

No drive = load screens
Drive = seamless

That's overly simplistic.

There are streaming options that are not possible using a drive which is over 100x slower than an HDD. It works to preload levels and, if you build in a tranition area (GTA bridges, Castlevania PSOne rooms), but it does not allow for many in game techniques that can be used and the loading of a DOOM 3 level is one of them. The entire levels are not loaded at once, but because of the relatively fast HDD, it can grab the part of the level it needs right before it's needed. Many Xbox games do this.

Then you add in the ability to store persistent world data and mass storage become the ONLY way to solve certain problems.

Give it up, you're argument is poor. An HDD NOT BEING STANDARD makes certain uses impossible. The PS3 won't have an HDD standard either, but saying HDD's are simply a "nice thing to have" is completely wrong.

 

[urk]

Of course not all of even today's hits come from the large teams you've just described....

Most of them do. Those that are able to break through with small teams often do so with unique gameplay, not outstanding graphics that push a system to its absolute breaking point.

 

[Piepz]

Now the x360 HD is in the same situation, you just can't see it yet.

Allard said in the chat, that games will use a HDD for caching etc etc if it will be attached. You can also save game on a hdd, download various content etc etc.

...

Also... I hate your avatar, you should be banded for this:

 

[urk]

Give it up, you're argument is poor. An HDD NOT BEING STANDARD makes certain uses impossible. The PS3 won't have an HDD standard either, but saying HDD's are simply a "nice thing to have" is completely wrong.

Actually, I think you just took care of your own argument.

If devs need this new technology, then I guess you believe Sony is making a big mistake by not including a drive in their console.

If not, you must admit that the 360 can work without one too.

 

[Flo_Evans]

Allard said in the chat, that games will use a HDD for caching etc etc if it will be attached. You can also save game on a hdd, download various content etc etc.

...

Also... I hate your avatar, you should be banded for this:

I hate your avatar too oh and its banned.

 

[bishoptl]

If devs need this new technology, then I guess you believe Sony is making a big mistake by not including a drive in their console.

I'll explain it to you, slowly.

The mistake would be if Sony split their PS3 userbase in a similar manner.

Carry on.

 

[urk]

Sony,

For those of you that have been wondering, just a quick word. Oblivion does not REQUIRE a hard drive to work on Xbox 360. It will work on every Xbox 360. We would recommend you get one if you have the means because we use it heavily if you have one and it makes the game play smoother, but it is in no way a requirement.

Old news, but it shows that your statement is false. Developers can, will, and are using the drives to improve their games and they can, quite easily, code for systems without it.

 

[maynerd]

Allard said in the chat, that games will use a HDD for caching etc etc if it will be attached. You can also save game on a hdd, download various content etc etc.

...

Also... I hate your avatar, you should be banded for this:

MS also said that the HD and Wireless controller would be standard.

 

[mrklaw]

I for one applaud Bethesda for that, however if you don't think MOST developers(especially those making multi-platform titles EA, Activision) are going to generally take the easiest route and code for the lowest common denominator(no HD), then you're kidding yourself.

Even if the HDD was standard, Multiplatform developers would still not code for it, as no HDD (PS3 most likely) would still be the lowest common standard.

 

[Luckett_X]

look I know people feel the need to spin things so that they can justify whatever large amount of money theyre shelling out for a product, but no HDD as standard in every unit is not a good thing. It is a negative thing. You can argue all you want and damage control it so "no hdd as standard is not FATAL to x360", but it has now already limited developers on what they can do. This is next-gen, they shouldnt immediately have to throw out "get an hdd though as otherwise loading and gameplay will be a bit shit".

And yes, I do think Sony is making a mistake in not having an HDD as standard, but I can see their issue on the cost front, plus lets face it they dont really HAVE to pander to anyone.

Maybe next-next gen we'll see gaming leap forward by finally having hdd's as standard what with them then being really absurdly fucking cheap?

God, I think it's fairly fucking depressing looking at the supposed new 'next generation' and being able to point out a massive flaw we'll have to wait maybe 6 years to see be supersceeded.

 

[Piepz]

I hate your avatar too oh and its banned.

Welcome to GAF! :lol
You really thought I mistyped it for no reason? :lol

 

[Piepz]

MS also said that the HD and Wireless controller would be standard.

It is... for Xbox 360. That's how they call premium pack.
non-HDD version is just Core or Retard.

 

[gamergirly]

look I know people feel the need to spin things so that they can justify whatever large amount of money theyre shelling out for a product, but no HDD as standard in every unit is not a good thing. It is a negative thing. You can argue all you want and damage control it so "no hdd as standard is not FATAL to x360", but it has now already limited developers on what they can do. This is next-gen, they shouldnt immediately have to throw out "get an hdd though as otherwise loading and gameplay will be a bit shit".

And yes, I do think Sony is making a mistake in not having an HDD as standard, but I can see their issue on the cost front, plus lets face it they dont really HAVE to pander to anyone.

Maybe next-next gen we'll see gaming leap forward by finally having hdd's as standard what with them then being really absurdly fucking cheap?

God, I think it's fairly fucking depressing looking at the supposed new 'next generation' and being able to point out a massive flaw we'll have to wait maybe 6 years to see be supersceeded.

PS3 3oming Soon.

 

[Jesiatha]

The problem is that there are no assurances that MS will continue offering the Premium Pack as an alternative for the same relative price (in comparison to the Core Pack.) And all MS has shown recently leads us to believe they'll drop it as soon as possible to stop bleeding because they are obviously losing more money with that pack. After that a $99 drive with no real advantage, other than being a bigger memory unit, won't be enough to sway the casual consumer to buy it.

If the HDD makes games better (as everyone is arguing), top developers will take advantage of it and consumers will be encouraged to buy HDDs.

Plus, MS has an incentive to keep selling them - it gives people lots of storage for Arcade games and other Marketplace DLC. People who have a HDD are going to be far more likely to buy lots of premium DLC.

 

[xsarien]

It is... for Xbox 360. That's how they call premium pack.
non-HDD version is just Core or Retard.

OK. How about "They implied - either through silence or semantics - that the HDD would be standard, period."

 

[border]

It is... for Xbox 360. That's how they call premium pack.
non-HDD version is just Core or Retard.

OK. How about "They implied - either through silence or semantics - that the HDD would be standard, period."

Don't bother with anyone so pathetic as to buy into this backpedalling...."They gave the Core console a slightly different name so it wasn't at all deceptive when they said a hard drive was standard with every Xbox 360!" :lol

http://www.xbox.com/en-US/e32005/20050516-pressbriefing-news.htm

Microsoft detailed more key platform experiences that come standard with every Xbox 360 system:
# Detachable and expandable 20GB hard drive to download demos and trailers along with new game levels, maps, weapons, vehicles, skins, community-created content, and more to rip music for playback and to listen to custom playlists in every game.
# A wireless controller with Microsoft-patented wireless technology.

 

[bishoptl]

http://www.xbox.com/en-US/e32005/20050516-pressbriefing-news.htm

Microsoft detailed more key platform experiences that come standard with every Xbox 360 system:
# Detachable and expandable 20GB hard drive to download demos and trailers along with new game levels, maps, weapons, vehicles, skins, community-created content, and more to rip music for playback and to listen to custom playlists in every game.
# A wireless controller with Microsoft-patented wireless technology.

Damn.

It is... for Xbox 360. That's how they call premium pack.
non-HDD version is just Core or Retard.

 

[maynerd]

It is... for Xbox 360. That's how they call premium pack.
non-HDD version is just Core or Retard.

I'm not even going to touch this insane logic.

 

[IJoel]

OK. How about "They implied - either through silence or semantics - that the HDD would be standard, period."

Exactly. They were either very deceiving or just didn't keep up their word and decided to change the configuration at the last moment.

If the HDD makes games better (as everyone is arguing), top developers will take advantage of it and consumers will be encouraged to buy HDDs.

Plus, MS has an incentive to keep selling them - it gives people lots of storage for Arcade games and other Marketplace DLC. People who have a HDD are going to be far more likely to buy lots of premium DLC.

I do think some top developers will take advantage of it, but I don't think it'll be the norm. This is akin to what comes first, chicken or egg. Do developers drive the market for the HDD, or does the HDD drives the market for specific content for it?

I also agree that MS has an incentive to keep selling them to bolster the value of the marketplace and Xbox Live, which is why MS is failing to see the big picture here and just making a big mistake. Xbox Live has the potential to become an ebay of sorts for user content/item selling/etc. It's a new emergent market that hasn't been tapped and MS had a big chance to become the main driver of it and i think they're blowing their chance. Problem is that all indicates that MS doesn't want to sell the HDD with the console as they don't want to pay or subsidize a big part of it which leads me to believe they will drop it the first chance they get. They are including it now because they know the hardcore is certainly expecting it. The other problem is that it's just too expensive. A HDD alone is a third of the console. What kind of message that sends to casual customers? When they come to get a console they'll have the following choice to make: a game and a memory unit, or a HDD with no game? What do you think they'll choose?

Damn.

:lol MS is being ridiculously patronizing with their fanbase since they think calling the premium pack "Xbox 360 System" and the core one "Xbox 360 Core System" will make them think they were never deceived.

 

[Jesiatha]

Problem is that all indicates that MS doesn't want to sell the HDD with the console as they don't want to pay or subsidize a big part of it which leads me to believe they will drop it the first chance they get. They are including it now because they know the hardcore is certainly expecting it.

MS doesn't want to drop the HDD. If the goal was to get people to buy the retard pack, the value pack would have been priced higher.

I expect that most people who buy a 360 in the first year will get a HDD. That's a lot of HDDs out there (among the portion of the population that buys lots of games), and game developers will know that. Hopefully at that point the HDD will become a necessity rather than a nice to have.

 

[IJoel]

MS doesn't want to drop the HDD. If the goal was to get people to buy the retard pack, the value pack would have been priced higher.

I expect that most people who buy a 360 in the first year will get a HDD. That's a lot of HDDs out there (among the portion of the population that buys lots of games), and game developers will know that. Hopefully at that point the HDD will become a necessity rather than a nice to have.

I think you really believe that, but I just don't think Marketing/Accounting at MS does.
I just won't really believe what MS says after they were so deceiving with what a standard Xbox 360 would include.

I agree with your second statement though. I expect the Premium Pack to outsell the Core one but only because console launches really reach, for the most part, early adopters not casual gamers. I sure hope it will become a necessity, but I really doubt it will.

 

[PhatSaqs]

Do you guys really think that the percentage of 360s with a HDD is going to be as low as the percentage of PS2s with a HDD? Especially among the hard core gaming crowd, I expect the HDD to be very common.

As far as developers using it - not everyone had Live, but a ton of games (including multiplatform) targeted it, because it boosted sales among the hardcore audience. HDD may well do the same this time.

Lastly, the two big benefits of the HDD which apply to EVERY game (custom soundtracks and giant save game storage) are going to be handled by the system this time, so they will work on every game. A good percentage of games didn't even get both of these right last gen.

I wish that the HDD was included with every system, but I don't think the sky is falling. The hard core audience that wants the benefits of the hard drive will buy them, and the games targeting that audience will make use of it. Feel free to keep complaining about accessory prices though

Good shit.

 

[krypt0nian]

Microsoft detailed more key platform experiences that come standard with every Xbox 360 system:
# Detachable and expandable 20GB hard drive to download demos and trailers along with new game levels, maps, weapons, vehicles, skins, community-created content, and more to rip music for playback and to listen to custom playlists in every game.
# A wireless controller with Microsoft-patented wireless technology.
# However the Xbox 180 will not include the promised HDD. Please buy an Xbox 360.

fxd

That said - Jesiatha has me questioning the chicken little nature of the board at this point.

I AM as wishy-washy on the 360 as Mrbob at this point. ;P

 

[DarienA]

Let's see before I could put my soundtracks on the unit... now with the core unit I need to either have a PC near it, networked to it, bought the wifi unit, or own an MP3 player.

And that's better than having a HDD in the core unit...... +1/-1 I guess.

 

[The Abominable Snowman]

Not to mention it's a fucking steal at $399, as it is the best CD Player bar none.

 

[rastex]

Let's see before I could put my soundtracks on the unit... now with the core unit I need to either have a PC near it, networked to it, bought the wifi unit, or own an MP3 player.

And that's better than having a HDD in the core unit...... +1/-1 I guess.

Well instead of buying the wifi unit, you could buy the HDD and thus rip soundtracks to that and get the benefit of a massive memory card + backwards compatibility + Jesiatha's project

 

[DarienA]

Well instead of buying the wifi unit, you could buy the HDD and thus rip soundtracks to that and get the benefit of a massive memory card + backwards compatibility + Jesiatha's project

So the long story short... $299 + ...., just like the PS2, damn you console manufacturers and your profit-making attempts! <waves fist>

 

[Flo_Evans]

So the long story short... $299 + ...., just like the PS2, damn you console manufacturers and your profit-making attempts! <waves fist>

Not really, the PS2 did not require a $100 add on for BC. It also let you use your old memory cards (for PS1 games) and all of your old controllers. You could also use your old cables. And 3rd party USB devices worked.

oh and the PS2 was comming off about 100 million PS1's sold... but other than that its the same thing!

 

[Mrbob]

Wow, MS is using some deceptive advertising on the X360 page. Par for the course, though. Their last 4 months have been all about being deceptive to what they are truly offering to the consumer.

fxd

That said - Jesiatha has me questioning the chicken little nature of the board at this point.

I AM as wishy-washy on the 360 as Mrbob at this point. ;P

Yeah, it's been a painful couple months on the X360 front. Me buying Xbox 360 six months ago was a slam dunk. Now I feel like I'm going up for the dunk and hit my head against the rim. TGS and X05 better produce for Xbox 360. I got no problem paying 399 for the console. It's the accessary prices and lackluster titles shown so far which have me worried.

I knew MS was going to rip out the hdd eventually. But they never gave the impression it was going to happen at launch. You got the impression that the first year or two would be hdd only. That way you know the hdd would have been supported well. I guess I'm not as optimistic as Jesiatha that a ton of people are going to throw down 400 bucks on a new gaming system. Which is my concern because while I can spend 400 dollars on the system I don't want to feel like I'm wasting *my* money if the premium pack falters.

 

[Spike]

Well the arguably more successful console of the next generation most likely won't have a HDD standard either, so having a HDD in the 360 standard would've been moot if you're going to use the LCD. And I think that was Allard's point in the chat. 80% of consoles in the current gen don't have an HDD, and yet the top-end developers still program for it in mind (Splinter Cell, etc). So a similar situation will occur with the 360. Crappy developers are always going to be crappy, and great developers are going to be great, minor variations in the hardware aren't going to change that.

If people are pissed off about splitting the userbase, then they're really pissed off about nothing.

Every single Xbox 1 had a HDD in it. Of course the Xbox versions of the games are going to be coded to utilize the HDD. Stop comparing the Xbox360 to the PS2. The only system it should be compared to is the Xbox 1.

Now, the Xbox 360 doesn't really come with a HDD standard. The games coded for the 360 most likely won't be coded with it in mind.