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LOST 05.04: "The Little Prince" (It's Exuperriffic!)

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bistromathics said:
You are arguing about things that are so wishy-washy there is no point debating them. Keep It Simple, Stupid! The issue is that the creator's foundation for time travel is fucked up.
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Their foundation of time travel is fucked up because you can't grasp the concept that what they're touching goes with them? Holy christ, stfu.

How many goddamn posts are you gonna spend flipping the fuck out about something so fucking trivial?
 
bistromathics said:
YES! YES I AM! I have been a staunch defender of Lost to every single one of my friends. Even during the really bad times, I had been listening to the podcasts and heard the thought-process of the producers - they convinced me to put my faith in them for ultimately doing it right, and now I see they are not (in respects to the time-travel anyways...really, I do like the story parts but time travel is only going to become increasingly important from here on out).

It feels more like I'm watching

51wINz3M7RL._SL500.jpg


when I was expecting something like

primerpubd.jpg
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shut up already.
 
The rule was never "everything caught in the flash travels with us" if that were the case then their camp on the island would be jumping around to every point they go to.

They have however shown that everything they've taken from a time period goes with them. This is seen with the compass, with the guns, and now with two boats. If Sawyer had brought the beer cans with him then yes they would have moved (in fact Sawyer made reference to this earlier when he was trying to break into the hatch to get supplies, "I don't want to start over from scratch"). However the only thing they took on this jump was the canoe.

Not only were they holding it when they moved, but they displaced it from it's location at that point in time, therefore their taking it was necessary for events to occur as they were supposed to (much like the compass).
 
How are you people so sure Sawyer really couldn't meet Desmond?

All you have for it is Faraday's word, and he could have been lying because he wanted to talk to Desmond alone so he could tell him what to do.
 
xbhaskarx said:
How are you people so sure Sawyer really couldn't meet Desmond?

All you have for it is Faraday's word, and he could have been lying because he wanted to talk to Desmond alone so he could tell him what to do.
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Wild Speculation Time:

Faraday can't lie... he's one of the "good guys". Except, of course, for the fact that he's still working for Widmore and was probably under orders to lie to his constant about his "specialness" in order to compel Desmond to crash Ben's O6 reunion party in Los Angeles and give Widmore his inside ticket back to the island.

While Penny is tagging along for the ride, I suspect Widmore's concern for his daughter has always been a front to manipulate Des... both to get to the island in the first place (via Libby) and now to return. They're collectively playing Desmond like a fiddle. He actually is special... he has special rules and special abilities like the Queen on a chess board. But he's still a chess piece. Penny will be offered up as a sacrificial lamb to lower Ben's guard... Widmore's only care is for the island. In actuality, Ben cared far more for his adopted daughter than Charles does for his own flesh and blood.

Hawking is a question mark. No word on whether her and Faraday are still on good terms or not. She may be working for either side or simply another pawn that can be sacrificed.

It should be obvious given the narrow 70-hour time frame but we should expect that Ben planted the seeds to get Sun to Los Angeles as well. Whether it was indirectly through Bentham/Locke or not is beside the point. He knows exactly where she is right now and what she's about to do. She's been motivated by bloodlust but alas the Island will prevent her from carrying it out (unless an unwitting Penny happens to be in the line of fire).

The wild cards (as pointed out in this thread earlier) are Hurley... and now Jin. Everyone else is a chess piece in play.

Oh yeah... at the end of Season 6, I want a customized LOST chess set.
 
^ none of that shit made any sense at all to me :lol

i love this show, i really do, but its so deep! my head!!!!

i really hope the writers have a plan of how they are going to explain everything. i imagine the casual viewer would need a fair bit of explanation.
 
Here's something that drives me crazy - complaining about plot holes IN THE MIDDLE OF THE GODDAMN SEASON. Why doesn't Rosseau recognize Jin later? Why does the canoe travel with them? OMG I DON'T HAVE AN ANSWER RIGHT NOW SO IT MUST BE A PLOT HOLE.
 
KHarvey16 said:
Here's something that drives me crazy - complaining about plot holes IN THE MIDDLE OF THE GODDAMN SEASON. Why doesn't Rosseau recognize Jin later? Why does the canoe travel with them? OMG I DON'T HAVE AN ANSWER RIGHT NOW SO IT MUST BE A PLOT HOLE.
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I'm not saying it's a plot hole, just wondering what her reaction was when she sees him cause I can't remember it anymore.
 
Tieno said:
I'm not saying it's a plot hole, just wondering what her reaction was when she sees him cause I can't remember it anymore.
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Merely timing that relates our posts :). I was referring to the people who specifically mentioned some things as plot holes.
 
teruterubozu said:
Time travel = shark jumpage

It's really that simple.
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So what you're saying is that LOST jumped the shark before it even made it through its first season? Because the show has always, always been about time travel.
 
FIRST THING'S FIRST.

Shit's popping on ABC.com AND XBLVM by 6 AM EST.

HOTT!

Second.

HOLY SHIT, JIN. The spoiler free season CONTINUES TO DELIVER.

Never saw one second of that coming. Between this, Legion of 3 Worlds, and ASM, this has been one very fucking surprising 24 hours.

Fantastic episode and, oh, it was Kate-centric.

Looks like I win again.
 
WordAssassin said:
So what you're saying is that LOST jumped the shark before it even made it through its first season? Because the show has always, always been about time travel.
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It certainly was a possibility in earlier seasons but it was never so blown out like this. Anyway, I still enjoy it, I just gave up on clue digging and theorizing. Now I just let the show wash over me like a wave.
 
teruterubozu said:
It certainly was a possibility in earlier seasons but it was never so blown out like this. Anyway, I still enjoy it, I just gave up on clue digging and theorizing. Now I just let the show wash over me like a wave.
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Really though, knowing what we know now it's clear time travel has always been a part of the show. A show can't jump the shark by "introducing" an element that's always been there.
 
Ajira, the logo looks Indian, and the name sounds like it has other Asian influences. Something to do with Sun?

And when Dan said that the nosebleeds are based on the length of time on the island, I guess its obvious that Charlotte has been there since birth and is slightly older than Miles, Dan Shoe has also been there since birth (and is probably Candle's son) and Juliet obviously came when she was older. That means Sawyer, Locke, Rose, Bernard (Vincent :P (Havn't we run out of red shirts now?)) will be next, and then probably Faraday.

Bit of a shame that the cliffhanger reveal was so obvious :P
 
bistromathics said:
No, based on the previous (what i thought was a) explanation, whatever they had with them carries over. We are stepping into freddy kruger territory...which would be fine, except time travel is extremely crucial to 90% of the setup we have gotten so far.



But that still makes NO FUCKING SENSE. Yes I know time travel doesn't make logical sense, but seriously when you are BASING A SHOW AROUND IT, it had better make sense given the rules you establish. Could sawyer have touched past-Kate, and all of a sudden she travels through time too? Those beer cans that Sawyer picked up...are they traveling along with the flashes? I am having a hard time understanding the FUCKING ENORMOUS GAPING GOATSE STYLE PLOTHOLES that are being left open. Obviously there is wiggle-room when dealing with time travel, but this is fucking seisure-room.

It's a shame that so much focus is going to be on the very very flawed time travel stuff in the future, because I am very jazzed about Russeux (omg french sucks to spell) history, Jin being alive, and the 'present' shit going on with the 6. Watching them try to get back to the island is now the main draw of the show for me, which REALLY is a shame considering the setup we've gotten up until now.
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Sounds to me like you just want to bitch about something! Sawyer didn't take the beer cans with them on the canoe.They also he the M1 rifle with them too,but they brought it with them!Just because they tough something doesn't mean it comes with them!Their clothes aren't from that time line either.Come on man, stop bitching about little shit, that doesn't matter.
 
FUCKING ENORMOUS GAPING GOATSE STYLE PLOTHOLES
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:lol basing on what we have seen in the show so far whatever they touch time travels with them otherwise they would be naked everytime they time travel, and they haven't explained/showed what would happen if they touched a person in the past so thats not a plot hole it just hasnt been explored yet.
 
Boring episode, but compared to the last one I think the bar was set pretty fucking high.
 
Blader5489 said:
As soon as Locke saw that thing with French written on it, you knew it was Rousseau. As soon as you saw a body in the water, you knew it was Jin.
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Late to the party here but I had NO FUCKING CLUE it was Jin until you saw his face. They were jibbering in French, it could have been someone else in their party, it could have been an Other playing possum, I've seen Dan's name in the credits for weeks now and I still had no idea it could be him. Never fucking occurred to me.

LOST ENJOYMENT QUOTIENT +1000000%
 
I was actually hoping it was Micheal when they first showed the body.
 
Wasn't the best of episodes compared to the others but it did establish some important things.

Jin is alive.
Rousseau is pregnant when she arrives on the island.
The radio the French leader guy is carrying can be heard repeating "the numbers" 4,8,15 etc.

Question:
When Rousseau created that tape at the tower that Shannon later translated... Any chance it was already there but was merely repeating the numbers over and over and Rousseau changed what it broadcast?
 
Wes said:
Question:
When Rousseau created that tape at the tower that Shannon later translated... Any chance it was already there but was merely repeating the numbers over and over and Rousseau changed what it broadcast?
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Do you mean like did Rousseau just go to the tower and record over the repeating numbers?
Because I think that's exactly what she said she did.
 
Jtwo said:
Do you mean like did Rousseau just go to the tower and record over the repeating numbers?
Because I think that's exactly what she said she did.
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Ok cool because I couldn't remember back that far. Thanks.
 
To those that were complaining about how disappointing the cliffhanger was. The point was not to shock you about Danielle, because anyone still watching Lost by now should've guessed it was her crew. Rather, it's the delivery of the promise of her backstory, as well as her interaction with Jin that should excite you. I hope more will be revealed in their interaction, and not just a cameo of her character in the past, because that would be uber lame.
 
Zalasta said:
To those that were complaining about how disappointing the cliffhanger was. The point was not to shock you about Danielle, because anyone still watching Lost by now should've guessed it was her crew. Rather, it's the delivery of the promise of her backstory, as well as her interaction with Jin that should excite you. I hope more will be revealed in their interaction, and not just a cameo of her character in the past, because that would be uber lame.
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I hope we get at least en episode of her backstory before it flashes again.
 
Why should clothing disappear when you travel back in time? Why shouldn't whatever they are using or touching move with them?

It's a fake concept to begin with, who is the jackass who created these false "laws" around it?
 
THE LITTLE PRINCE is my favoritest kid's book ever. i haven't watched this episode yet, but i'm double-pumped about it now.
 
Yoboman said:
Why should clothing disappear when you travel back in time? Why shouldn't whatever they are using or touching move with them?

It's a fake concept to begin with, who is the jackass who created these false "laws" around it?
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Because the item should go back to its original place at that time, it shouldnt depend on wether the person is touching it or not.

Question, lets say they are in the canoe and they traveled to a point in time when someone else was using the canoe, but since they were touching they kept it with them. what happens then? 2 canoes? or does it alter the past?
 
Wes said:
Wasn't the best of episodes compared to the others but it did establish some important things.

Jin is alive.
Rousseau is pregnant when she arrives on the island.
The radio the French leader guy is carrying can be heard repeating "the numbers" 4,8,15 etc.

Question:
When Rousseau created that tape at the tower that Shannon later translated... Any chance it was already there but was merely repeating the numbers over and over and Rousseau changed what it broadcast?
Click to expand...

It's already been answered but yes, that's what she did. The numbers being broadcasted were what brought her team towards the island to investigate in the first place.
 
bistromathics said:
what? no my complaint is that the didn't establish a good set of rules off the bat. this is now confirmed to be A TIME TRAVEL SHOW. when time-travel is the reason, explanation, and motivation for any fiction, then yes, I expect a solid foundation for them to work off of. Without that core set of rules, what the fuck is the point? I always dismissed the complaints of 'oh well you bring ghosts and time travel into it and then anything can happen' in regards to LOST, because they hadn't yet established how their version of time travel worked. Now that they are starting to do that, it's clear that the building blocks of THE ENTIRE PREMISE are not as sturdy as they should have been.
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Ok, bistromathics, seeing as you don't seem to have a grasp on time travel theories and how predestination is supposed to work, I'm going to lay out LOST's rules on time travel, to the best of my knowledge.

Remember, we don't know everything yet, and there's still plenty of episodes left to explain things beyond what I write below.


Juliet's exact quote regarding what they had after the first flash in Episode 2 was:

"I guess whatever we had with us when we moved is along for the ride"

So that establishes that anything they're in contact or posession of, moves with them through time.

LOST's time travel is goverened by the pre-destination method; meaning that no matter what they do in the past, is meant to happen. As has been mentioned before, desmond did not open the door for sawyer because he'd never met him previously. He opened it for Faraday because they had met in 1994 when desmond visited faraday in "the constant", therefore, for desmond to see faraday on the island isn't breaking the order in which they met, and could have simply been chalked up to a vision or apparation back in Season 1 when desmond opened the door for faraday, because he ALWAYS opened the door for faraday.

As for desmond's 'special ability' to circumvent this pre-destination thing, I can't explain it other than the fact that he's already been unstuck and has found his constant; I'm hoping they go into more detail here on this one.

As for the rest of the 815ers and their science crew, whatever they have with them when they jump comes along, meaning the gun, the compass, the canoe. I don't know if this REMOVES said object from the past/ future (e.g. they took the canoe, from what was obviously the future, but when they flashed, is the canoe still in the future as well, or has it vanished as the 815ers did?).

Again, as mentioned in the thread already, Sawyer didn't talk to kate now, and he didnt talk to kate in season 1 -- he could have if it had happened in Season 1, but it didnt, so he couldn't now.

Think of it this way: no matter what the 815ers do on the island in the past/future, it was always meant to be that way. There will never be a moment in the show that contradicts what has already been on screen in the last 5 seasons. The time travelling 815ers may be RESPONSIBLE for some events that happened in seasons 1-4, but the "past" 815ers will never know that they're responsible for said event happening until their "future" time-travelling selves actually initiate it.

Everyhing that they do was completely meant to be.

If you look back on these last three episodes with these rules in mind, the only plot-hole that I can't explain is the Ethan/Locke meeting -- surely Ethan would remember him, but again, hopefully it will be explained.

As for Jin and Rousseau, they've JUST met, we don't know enough about their time together "in the past" yet to make any judgements on what outcomes it will have on the events of Season 1-4.
 
Ps. based on what happend with desmond, present day rosseau wouldnt have remembered meeting Jin until Jin traveled back .. it would be simultaneous
 
Darko said:
Ps. based on what happend with desmond, present day rosseau wouldnt have remembered meeting Jin until Jin traveled back .. it would be simultaneous
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No. Desmond is special. Rousseau always met Jin in the past, he didn't change anything.
 
Dez said:
No. Desmond is special. Rousseau always met Jin in the past, he didn't change anything.
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Exactly.

Desmond's memory implantation is part of his special ability to not be governed by this law of predestination -- I have a suspicion that only FARADAY can interact with desmond in this manner -- We don't know enough about jin/rousseau yet to see how jin interacts in the past and what effect it'll have on the pre-established time-line.



edit: also, it had been 16 years since Rousseau was on the island when the 815ers met up with her, so it's possible she doesn't remember Jin at all -- that flash might be very short, and I have a hard time remembering a lot of people from 16 years ago :P

edit 2: Jin and Rousseau barely interacted on the island as it were, the only time that I can think of them directly interacting was when they were setting up the ambush on the others with the tents / white shells and such in Season 4....
 
DrEvil said:
If you look back on these last three episodes with these rules in mind, the only plot-hole that I can't explain is the Ethan/Locke meeting -- surely Ethan would remember him, but again, hopefully it will be explained.
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This may be the reason Ethan spends so much time with Locke before Ethan is outed. Locke even puts blame on himself saying that he spent the most time with Ethan and that he should have seen signs that something was wrong.
 
Number 2 said:
This may be the reason Ethan spends so much time with Locke before Ethan is outed. Locke even puts blame on himself saying that he spent the most time with Ethan and that he should have seen signs that something was wrong.
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True, I had thought about it -- and we never see Locke/Ethan's first meeting on the island; first encounter with ethan is when they returned from hunting, remember, he was introduced more like an 'extra' in season 1.
 
I thought this was a pretty good episode. I did think Sun was going to be the lawyers client, I didn't think it was going to be Ben till right towards the end.

They are walking on thin ice with meeting characters in other times (Ethan, Danielle) and seeing past events - If there's interaction and it isn't explained yet, people (obsessives like us) are gonna say 'Hang on!.....', but I don't think they've crossed the line just yet. It's still doing it for me any way, even if Season 4 was a peak.
 
I'm really enjoying this season so, more-so than even S4.

We'll never get back to the slower pace the earlier season's had, but in it's place we we got a situation where we are always moving at 100 mph. Can't wait to see whats next.

Edit: As I said I really enjoyed this episode as well.
 
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