Support NeoGAF

[BenjaminBirdie]

I'm really enjoying this season so, more-so than even S4.

We'll never get back to the slower pace the earlier season's had, but in it's place we we got a situation where we are always moving at 100 mph. Can't wait to see whats next.

Edit: As I said I really enjoyed this episode as well.

I realized the other day. We'll probably never see another scene again of people just strolling through the jungle passing information. "So, hey, Jack, did you hear Kate's in New Otherton? Why do you think she did that?" Part of me will kind of miss that stuff.

 

[Ceres]

If you look back on these last three episodes with these rules in mind, the only plot-hole that I can't explain is the Ethan/Locke meeting -- surely Ethan would remember him, but again, hopefully it will be explained.

Why do people keep bringing up the Ethan/Locke thing? Why would Ethan, the mysterious character we learn little about during season 1, have ever acknowledged recognizing Locke and even then, the writers are not going to show a scene with him going "OMG! I shot you 2 years ago on the island!" during the first season. We may get that in some random time jump but there's really no reason to explain this.

As for Jin and Rousseau, they've JUST met, we don't know enough about their time together "in the past" yet to make any judgements on what outcomes it will have on the events of Season 1-4.

Danielle also has been on the island for 16 years by the time she meets him again and is not really with it. We'll see how long they are in contact for but if it's only a few minutes and he dissapears out of view, it may not stay with her, she could assume he's an other once they know about them, or she could have just chalked it up to the island messing with her brain/memory.

Edit: I see you brought up a lot of the points I did about Rousseau in a newer post. I even had a paragraph about them not having a lot of interaction but decided to delete it.

 

[Darko]

I'm really enjoying this season so, more-so than even S4.

We'll never get back to the slower pace the earlier season's had, but in it's place we we got a situation where we are always moving at 100 mph. Can't wait to see whats next.

Edit: As I said I really enjoyed this episode as well.

no more flash backs *high five*

 

[baphometbones]

Awesome to see Jin back, I never saw it coming. I can't wait to see how that filthy traitor Sun reacts when she finds out. This season has been great so far, but poor Juliet

 

[adamsappel]

A couple of people have said that Rousseau and her team are also time-traveling and that is the nature of their sickness. I don't believe this. Why are they time-traveling also?

To the people complaining about time-traveling with objects, are you using Terminator as your primary reference for time-travel? The Losties bring along with them anything they are "carrying." They are IN the boat, therefore the boat and its contents will come along. I would not expect supplies lying at their feet on the ground to travel with them.

I think people are getting confused by the "it has always happened" aspect. Time is not circular. The characters don't remember things happening in the past (i.e. Season 1) until they actually occur in the future (Season 5). There won't be scenes of Rousseau recognizing Jin, because Jin doesn't travel in time until after Rousseau is killed. Likewise with Ethan. The 06 + Desmond are the people in the true "present," which is why Desmond suddenly awakes with the memory of meeting Faraday in the past.

 

[bistromathics]

I was a bit drunk last night and my posts do seem awfully belligerent, which is probably why people can't tell where I am coming from, what it was that bothered me, or why it bothered me.

I enjoy watching lost, but no longer care to pick apart or analyze the mysteries; I'll just leave it at that.

 

[gdt]

no more flash backs *high five*

Hmm, will definitely miss the flashbacks-but their time is over.

In S4, the alternate story (flashback/forward) became necessary to further the PLOT, and not JUST the CHARACTERS.

But those flashbacks got me (and everyone I guess) to love and relate to these characters. I cant tell you how much Jack's struggle got to me during "A Tale of Two Cities", and a bunch of other great flashbacks.

It used to be that both devices were separated-one to forward the plot, the other showing back story. I'll miss them, but they served their purpose.

 

[gdt]

A couple of people have said that Rousseau and her team are also time-traveling and that is the nature of their sickness. I don't believe this. Why are they time-traveling also?

To the people complaining about time-traveling with objects, are you using Terminator as your primary reference for time-travel? The Losties bring along with them anything they are "carrying." They are IN the boat, therefore the boat and its contents will come along. I would not expect supplies lying at their feet on the ground to travel with them.

I think people are getting confused by the "it has always happened" aspect. Time is not circular. The characters don't remember things happening in the past (i.e. Season 1) until they actually occur in the future (Season 5). There won't be scenes of Rousseau recognizing Jin, because Jin doesn't travel in time until after Rousseau is killed. Likewise with Ethan. The 06 + Desmond are the people in the true "present," which is why Desmond suddenly awakes with the memory of meeting Faraday in the past.

I don't agree with the last paragraph. Desmond awakes with that memory because he is "special" they have made the point to say you can't change the past.

 

[Darko]

Hmm, will definitely miss the flashbacks-but their time is over.

In S4, the alternate story (flashback/forward) became necessary to further the PLOT, and not JUST the CHARACTERS.

But those flashbacks got me (and everyone I guess) to love and relate to these characters. I cant tell you how much Jack's struggle got to me during "A Tale of Two Cities", and a bunch of other great flashbacks.

It used to be that both devices were separated-one to forward the plot, the other showing back story. I'll miss them, but they served their purpose.

The ones that actually meant something to the story I didn't mind but the pointless ones like jacks tatoo or the adventures of locke and goku I will definatley not miss.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

Actually, there hasn't been an episode this season that didn't show character through past exploration, whether it's the stuff from the SS Penis Boat, or seeing actual characters in the past.

 

[robochimp]

I think people are getting confused by the "it has always happened" aspect. Time is not circular. The characters don't remember things happening in the past (i.e. Season 1) until they actually occur in the future (Season 5). There won't be scenes of Rousseau recognizing Jin, because Jin doesn't travel in time until after Rousseau is killed. Likewise with Ethan. The 06 + Desmond are the people in the true "present," which is why Desmond suddenly awakes with the memory of meeting Faraday in the past.

You couldn't be more wrong about this. Circles have been a huge theme in the show from the beginning. Record Players and close up shot of rings have been all over the place

 

[Blader]

I don't think flashbacks are necessarily done. We still need to see backstories for Faraday, Charlotte, Miles, and maybe Richard.

The time travel mechanic is just for this season, just like flashforwards were just for last season. I wouldn't be surprised if flashbacks returned next year or even later on this season.

 

[gdt]

I don't think flashbacks are necessarily done. We still need to see backstories for Faraday, Charlotte, Miles, and maybe Richard.

The time travel mechanic is just for this season, just like flashforwards were just for last season. I wouldn't be surprised if flashbacks returned next year or even later on this season.

Definitely, but as a prevalent storytelling method, Lindelcuse said they are done.

 

[KHarvey16]

I don't think flashbacks are necessarily done. We still need to see backstories for Faraday, Charlotte, Miles, and maybe Richard.

The time travel mechanic is just for this season, just like flashforwards were just for last season. I wouldn't be surprised if flashbacks returned next year or even later on this season.

But there's a huge difference between flashback/forwards and time travel. One is a story telling device and the other is an actual element of the plot itself. I think time travel has always been there and will remain.

 

[rohlfinator]

They are walking on thin ice with meeting characters in other times (Ethan, Danielle) and seeing past events - If there's interaction and it isn't explained yet, people (obsessives like us) are gonna say 'Hang on!.....', but I don't think they've crossed the line just yet. It's still doing it for me any way, even if Season 4 was a peak.

I'm kinda hoping they "fix" the island pretty soon, because I'm a little skeptical about how long they can keep up the time flash plot device without it becoming too contrived. This episode was already starting to push it with them conveniently flashing to the exact night that Rousseau's team landed on the island.

It's not really an annoyance yet, but I hope they don't try to keep the flashes going for the full season.


BB, do you think we could get the cast list spoiler-tagged for the next thread? It's not a big deal, but knowing about Claire's mom and the French team in advance was a little spoiler-y.

 

[Darko]

I think people are getting confused by the "it has always happened" aspect. Time is not circular. The characters don't remember things happening in the past (i.e. Season 1) until they actually occur in the future (Season 5). There won't be scenes of Rousseau recognizing Jin, because Jin doesn't travel in time until after Rousseau is killed. Likewise with Ethan. The 06 + Desmond are the people in the true "present," which is why Desmond suddenly awakes with the memory of meeting Faraday in the past.

Thats what I said, but apperently desmond is "special" which is why he remembered in present day. Doesnt make much sense to me though that he wouldnt have had this memory the whole time like everyone else.

 

[gdt]

Yup, I always avert my eyes during the opening to avoid the cast:lol .

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

BB, do you think we could get the cast list spoiler tagged for the next thread? It's not a big deal, but knowing about Claire's mom and the French team in advance was a little spoil-y.

Yeah, I usually scour for those but I didn't realize it was Claire's mom until it was too late. The "French" stuff though was a bit benign. But I'll err on the side of caution next week.

 

[Ceres]

A couple of people have said that Rousseau and her team are also time-traveling and that is the nature of their sickness. I don't believe this. Why are they time-traveling also?

I must have missed the people saying Rousseau's team is time traveling. All the theories I and others have expressed are about them not coming in on the right bearing and the fact that they are researching time that leads them to study the black rock at some point. You know, that thing that caused the guy in the tunnel in the first scene of the season to get a nose bleed and black out? That is what we think the nature of "the sickness" is.

I'm kinda hoping they "fix" the island pretty soon, because I'm a little skeptical about how long they can keep up the time flash plot device without it becoming too contrived. This episode was already starting to push it with them conveniently flashing to the exact night that Rousseau's team landed on the island.

Actually, I think this makes sense more than anything. The going theory is that the island jumping is causing all this stuff to happen. We've already got Yemi's plane crashing and now Rousseau's team boat crashing approximately around the time of a time jump.

 

[rohlfinator]

Yeah, I usually scour for those but I didn't realize it was Claire's mom until it was too late. The "French" stuff though was a bit benign. But I'll err on the side of caution next week.

Awesome, thanks.

 

[bastionwords]

Emerson on being so fucking creepy...

edit: nevermind, this is repost of an old interview...bah, npr

 

[sykoex]

Wow, those brilliant bastards actually got me liking the Oceanic 6 with this episode. Now get them back to the island already!

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

Emerson on being so fucking creepy...

edit: nevermind, this is repost of an old interview...bah, npr

Still really good.

 

[Dez]

Another question I have is what was Ben's plan? Did he hire the guy to attack Sayeed? Did he assume that the guy would be able to tranq him, or not? Did he want the guy to tranq Kate after that? Or did he assume exactly what did happen would happen? :lol I just don't know, that plan seems to risky.. as he might lose Sayeed's trust by attempting to attack him and failing, so I don't know if that was part of the plan.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

Another question I have is what was Ben's plan? Did he hire the guy to attack Sayeed? Did he assume that the guy would be able to tranq him, or not? Did he want the guy to tranq Kate after that? Or did he assume exactly what did happen would happen? :lol I just don't know, that plan seems to risky.. as he might lose Sayeed's trust by attempting to attack him and failing, so I don't know if that was part of the plan.

I figure:
a) He hired the lawyer to convince Kate and Aaron to leave
b) Widmore's people are still hell of after Sayid.

 

[gdt]

In reference to the Emerson interview:

It's so wierd to hear Ben's voice in a not ready to kill kind of way.

 

[Deleted member 22576]

I'm kinda hoping they "fix" the island pretty soon

I expect to happen in the next 2ish episodes.
Bear in mind I didn't watch the preview for next week so it may have already proved me wrong.. but Ben really doesn't have that much time left. This whole little arc really seems to be coming to end to me. Everything feels like it is juuuuust about to climax.


random question:
is "bare in mind" or "bear in mind" or can you use both?

 

[bastionwords]

I must have missed the people saying Rousseau's team is time traveling. All the theories I and others have expressed are about them not coming in on the right bearing and the fact that they are researching time that leads them to study the black rock at some point. You know, that thing that caused the guy in the tunnel in the first scene of the season to get a nose bleed and black out? That is what we think the nature of "the sickness" is.



Actually, I think this makes sense more than anything. The going theory is that the island jumping is causing all this stuff to happen. We've already got Yemi's plane crashing and now Rousseau's team boat crashing approximately around the time of a time jump.

I think Rousseau's team will experience the conscience time jumping (i.e. desmond, minkowski, theresa) and not physical time travel like the Losties are experiencing. It was probably induced by them going through the barrier wrong. I wonder if the storm they go through that knocked out their ship's systems is just really the barrier protecting the island. Also, it will induce the conscience time travel (i.e. Minkowski and the people that were on the little raft with him) were experiencing. I find of interest that they would make it through the barrier.

I don't think the island physical jumps to that point in time when it jumps. We are seeing the Losties jump to that particular year of the island's time and where ever it was at that time. Meaning when Yemi's plane crashed, the island didn't jump to that space when the Losties jumped. I guess what I'm trying to say is the island is jumping through spacetime, while the Losties are jumping within the island's time string. When the Losties jump to a particular time on the island, the island is where it was at that time. Everybody who isn't jumping through time does not see the hum and light before the jump except Desmond because well he is special (and of course the time traveling Losties).

 

[TheClimaxan]

Another question I have is what was Ben's plan? Did he hire the guy to attack Sayeed? Did he assume that the guy would be able to tranq him, or not? Did he want the guy to tranq Kate after that? Or did he assume exactly what did happen would happen? :lol I just don't know, that plan seems to risky.. as he might lose Sayeed's trust by attempting to attack him and failing, so I don't know if that was part of the plan.

I took it all as Ben's plan. He had his lawyer track down Claire's mother to throw Kate off of his scent, he sent the guy to Sayid knowing that he would get his ass handed to him. To me Ben's planning seems to be along the lines of what Juliet did with Kate in season 3. She tried to make it seem like they were in a precarious situation together in order to win her trust. Only in Ben's case he didn't plan for Hurley and Sun to react the ways that they have. It's what happens when Ben doesn't have total control of his environment like he did on the island

 

[bastionwords]

I figure:
a) He hired the lawyer to convince Kate and Aaron to leave
b) Widmore's people are still hell of after Sayid.

I'm wondering if Ben told Locke/Bentham to tell Sun that Ben was the one that caused the freighter to explode in order to drive her to find Ben. I think someone might have brought this up earlier.

I took it all as Ben's plan. He had his lawyer track down Claire's mother to throw Kate off of his scent, he sent the guy to Sayid knowing that he would get his ass handed to him. To me Ben's planning seems to be along the lines of what Juliet did with Kate in season 3. She tried to make it seem like they were in a precarious situation together in order to win her trust. Only in Ben's case he didn't plan for Hurley and Sun to react the ways that they have. It's what happens when Ben doesn't have total control of his environment like he did on the island

See what I said about Sun above. Umm, Ben has his lawyer getting Hurley out pretty quickly. Don't worry, Ben always has a plan.

 

[TheOMan]

Exactly.

Desmond's memory implantation is part of his special ability to not be governed by this law of predestination -- I have a suspicion that only FARADAY can interact with desmond in this manner -- We don't know enough about jin/rousseau yet to see how jin interacts in the past and what effect it'll have on the pre-established time-line.



edit: also, it had been 16 years since Rousseau was on the island when the 815ers met up with her, so it's possible she doesn't remember Jin at all -- that flash might be very short, and I have a hard time remembering a lot of people from 16 years ago

edit 2: Jin and Rousseau barely interacted on the island as it were, the only time that I can think of them directly interacting was when they were setting up the ambush on the others with the tents / white shells and such in Season 4....

Hmm - I'm not sure about that. I thought it was because Faraday and Desmond (or at least Desmond's mind) had met before. In *Faraday's* past. Desmond's past in the hatch ended up being Faraday's "future" and Faraday's past at the school ended up being part of Desmond's "future" - creating an interesting cycle.

Edit: Ah - I see in a later post you say exactly that. Okay.

Edit2: And by later, I mean earlier.

 

[TheClimaxan]

I'm wondering if Ben told Locke/Bentham to tell Sun that Ben was the one that caused the freighter to explode in order to drive her to find Ben. I think someone might have brought this up earlier.

See what I said about Sun above. Umm, Ben has his lawyer getting Hurley out pretty quickly. Don't worry, Ben always has a plan.

Oh I definitely agree with you, Ben's to smart to let something simple as the US Justice system slow him down. I'm just saying Ben has had to be resourceful as his plans haven't gone as smoothly as he originated (i.e. he didn't expect Hurley to give him self up to the police or Sun try to kill him).

 

[rohlfinator]

Actually, I think this makes sense more than anything. The going theory is that the island jumping is causing all this stuff to happen. We've already got Yemi's plane crashing and now Rousseau's team boat crashing approximately around the time of a time jump.

True. I think they've handled it pretty well so far, but like I said, I think it'll be hard to keep it up. I figure they can still jump to the Black Rock and Pierre Chang-era Dharma, but beyond that they'll have to fall back to cheesy "Expose"-style "observing important plot events in the background" scenes.

I expect to happen in the next 2ish episodes.
Bear in mind I didn't watch the preview for next week so it may have already proved me wrong.. but Ben really doesn't have that much time left. This whole little arc really seems to be coming to end to me. Everything feels like it is juuuuust about to climax.

Yeah, I agree.

 

[bastionwords]

Oh I definitely agree with you, Ben's to smart to let something simple as the US Justice system slow him down. I'm just saying Ben has had to be resourceful as his plans haven't gone as smoothly as he originated (i.e. he didn't expect Hurley to give him self up to the police or Sun try to kill him).

I see what you are saying, but he was pretty damn quick in reacting to Hurley giving himself up. Also, I think he might know Sun is there to kill him. Like I said, I think he setup Sun to do this. Hurley turned out to be the only kink in his plan.

 

[woodchuck]

best line of the night: "he's my lawyer" :lol

 

[SuperPac]

I think Rousseau's team will experience the conscience time jumping (i.e. desmond, minkowski, theresa) and not physical time travel like the Losties are experiencing. It was probably induced by them going through the barrier wrong. I wonder if the storm they go through that knocked out their ship's systems is just really the barrier protecting the island. Also, it will induce the conscience time travel (i.e. Minkowski and the people that were on the little raft with him) were experiencing. I find of interest that they would make it through the barrier.

Then you almost have to wonder if Rousseau, then, has a constant (or if she needs one). She's the only one of her team that lived, right?

 

[bastionwords]

Then you almost have to wonder if Rousseau, then, has a constant (or if she needs one). She's the only one of her team that lived, right?

Yeah, I know it makes me wonder. I was stewing on this in last weeks thread. At the time, I wondered if Alex is her constant.

 

[Ceres]

I think Rousseau's team will experience the conscience time jumping (i.e. desmond, minkowski, theresa) and not physical time travel like the Losties are experiencing. It was probably induced by them going through the barrier wrong. I wonder if the storm they go through that knocked out their ship's systems is just really the barrier protecting the island. Also, it will induce the conscience time travel (i.e. Minkowski and the people that were on the little raft with him) were experiencing. I find of interest that they would make it through the barrier.

Yeah, that's part of it. But I stated before that I personally don't think the bearing alone causes the problem. It seems to be that the bearing just starts the course for them getting fucked up. The second time they screw with time whether it be jumping like the current group, leaving on a different bearing than the one you came in on like Desmond, or screwing around with the black rock like Rousseau's group is what instigates the sickness/conscientiousness problem. Of course, why Juliet is now getting nose bleeds may mean that the Losties aren't actually immune like we think they are and the bearing has little meaning. They and Faraday may just be taking longer because they've been on the island the shortest amount of time since it's like both Miles and Charlotte have been there previously. We've yet to see any of them have any conscience jumping, though. Just the blacking out/nosebleeds.

I don't think the island physical jumps to that point in time when it jumps. We are seeing the Losties jump to that particular year of the island's time and where ever it was at that time. Meaning when Yemi's plane crashed, the island didn't jump to that space when the Losties jumped. I guess what I'm trying to say is the island is jumping through spacetime, while the Losties are jumping within the island's time string. When the Losties jump to a particular time on the island, the island is where it was at that time. Everybody who isn't jumping through time does not see the hum and light before the jump except Desmond because well he is special (and of course the time traveling Losties).

Yeah, I worded that wrong. I meant time jumping and not island jumping the first time. But, I do believe those jumps are causing some sort of magnetic burst that is leading to a few of the crashes and will likely be the reason Desmond's boat also crashed there along with Minkowski's group. While only the people jumping through time may see the lite up sky, whatever is involved may also mess up all the electronic equipment outside of the standard range. Or at the very least have caused a breakdown in the "barrier" around the island that allowed Rousseau's team to hear the message since by that time it seems like the Dharma equipment that blocks signals to and from the island would be setup.

Yeah, I know it makes me wonder. I was stewing on this in last weeks thread. At the time, I wondered if Alex is her constant.

This seems the most likely though I'm thinking we could possibly see Jin be her constant. She's now making contact with him and maybe they'll jump to a time later where he meets up with her again as everyone is going crazy. So this could lead to her being an exception to the rule much like Desmond and why she doesn't seem to recognize Jin when they meet later ala Desmond/Faraday. A long shot but a far better plot than this stupid Charlie/Charles Widmore stuff people keep bringing up.

 

[McBacon]

I thought the guy Sayid strangled was Diangelo Barksdale. I was thinking "not again!"

 

[gdt]

Rivaling Locke's reaction upon running into a twentysomething Charles Widmore on the island, Lost's Jin is in the midst of a double-take of his own, having been fished out of the drink, alive, by a young Danielle Rousseau. Asked to weigh on his character's twist-filled reintroduction, Daniel Dae Kim tells TVGuide.com, "I was happy with the way they did that, for sure!"

Jin now is left to piece together for himself what — and when — is going on here. Is his English good enough to communicate with his rescuers and fashion some answers? "That is a very interesting question," says Kim. "Watching Jin's journey with English over the next few episodes will be ... very interesting."

Jin's wife, Sun — as well as many Lost fans who should know better by now — presumed him dead when the freighter exploded with him seemingly on it. And that's how the Lost bosses wanted it. Ergo, they purposely omitted Kim from the Season 5 cast photo.

Participating in the months-long deception was no biggie for Kim. "They assured me from the beginning that it didn't mean anything more than exactly what it was — a ruse," he says. "I just kept my head down, did my work and let them worry about that stuff."

Now that's he's "officially" back, Kim will be digitally re-inserted into the aforementioned publicity photo. "At least that's what I'm being told will happen," he says with a laugh. "I mean, I was at that shoot."

:lol At him being at the shoot.

 

[Blablurn]

omg the guy in the middle is richard alpert

 

[btrick]

I thought the guy Sayid strangled was Diangelo Barksdale. I was thinking "not again!"

sir, you have made my morning significantly brighter.

 

[adamsappel]

I don't agree with the last paragraph. Desmond awakes with that memory because he is "special" they have made the point to say you can't change the past.

Thats what I said, but apperently desmond is "special" which is why he remembered in present day. Doesnt make much sense to me though that he wouldnt have had this memory the whole time like everyone else.

I believe Ethan and Rousseau would have sudden present-day memories if they were alive to do so. Meeting Farady outside the hatch, finding Jin in the ocean, shooting Locke, these events just happened for the first time.

Desmond time-travels differently than the Losties, his travel (and Fisher Stevens, and Faraday's sweetheart, and the rat) is mental, so perhaps the rules don't apply to that in the same way? He can't do things that will change the future (buy the engagement ring), but he can have conversations that wouldn't occur otherwise, and do things that will fulfill his destiny to reach the island. I think the proper way to think of it is "you can't change what you're not supposed to change." The H-Bomb will only get put in concrete if Faraday tells the Others to do it. He was supposed to do that, because the island isn't radioactive. But Desmond can't buy the engagement ring, because that means he won't go on the boat trip.

Honestly, does anyone really think the explanation for Rousseau not recognizing Jin in the future is going to be that it occurred so long ago she forgot it? "Hey, remember that day that our boat sank and we found that Korean guy in the water?" "No, that was so long ago and it's just an insignificant detail to an otherwise normal day. Not to mention, he mysteriously disappeared soon after, so I gave him little thought since." Nor is it going to be that she's just crazy. The producers aren't lazy like that. A minor interaction like Desmond seeing Charlie busking on the corner can be forgotten. Or, that is an example of the writers having boxed themselves into a corner and hoping we won't notice.

You couldn't be more wrong about this. Circles have been a huge theme in the show from the beginning. Record Players and close up shot of rings have been all over the place

Circles may be a theme, yes, but time isn't. The Losties are jumping around in time, but only from a present-day perspective. It's like assuming that time-travel will never be invented, because if it was, there would be people from the future here already. We have to wait for the machine to be invented first.

It's very hard to explain, and I second-guess myself all the time. I'm open to being completely wrong about everything. My father writes time-travel books, so I tend not to question what's happening. If anyone is interested, here's a time-travel story I wrote:

http://home.comcast.net/~allenappel/writings/Anno_Domini.htm

 

[Ceres]

I believe Ethan and Rousseau would have sudden present-day memories if they were alive to do so. Meeting Farady outside the hatch, finding Jin in the ocean, shooting Locke, these events just happened for the first time.

Desmond time-travels differently than the Losties, his travel (and Fisher Stevens, and Faraday's sweetheart, and the rat) is mental, so perhaps the rules don't apply to that in the same way? He can't do things that will change the future (buy the engagement ring), but he can have conversations that wouldn't occur otherwise, and do things that will fulfill his destiny to reach the island. I think the proper way to think of it is "you can't change what you're not supposed to change." The H-Bomb will only get put in concrete if Faraday tells the Others to do it. He was supposed to do that, because the island isn't radioactive. But Desmond can't buy the engagement ring, because that means he won't go on the boat trip.

Honestly, does anyone really think the explanation for Rousseau not recognizing Jin in the future is going to be that it occurred so long ago she forgot it? "Hey, remember that day that our boat sank and we found that Korean guy in the water?" "No, that was so long ago and it's just an insignificant detail to an otherwise normal day. Not to mention, he mysteriously disappeared soon after, so I gave him little thought since." Nor is it going to be that she's just crazy. The producers aren't lazy like that. A minor interaction like Desmond seeing Charlie busking on the corner can be forgotten. Or, that is an example of the writers having boxed themselves into a corner and hoping we won't notice.

This doesn't at all explain why Richard knows to give Locke his compass and present it to him because the next time they meet he won't recognize him. Or why he knows to visit baby Locke since by your theory, he won't remember Locke telling him when he was born until the "present."

 

[Dez]

Circles may be a theme, yes, but time isn't. The Losties are jumping around in time, but only from a present-day perspective. It's like assuming that time-travel will never be invented, because if it was, there would be people from the future here already. We have to wait for the machine to be invented first.

How do we know that people from the future aren't here already? Perhaps they're lurking in the jungle a la the losties... I think we won't be able to confirm the theory that the effects of the time travellers are already present until we see another tie-in to s1-s3 stuff.

 

[Memles]

Yeah, that's part of it. But I stated before that I personally don't think the bearing alone causes the problem. It seems to be that the bearing just starts the course for them getting fucked up. The second time they screw with time whether it be jumping like the current group, leaving on a different bearing than the one you came in on like Desmond, or screwing around with the black rock like Rousseau's group is what instigates the sickness/conscientiousness problem. Of course, why Juliet is now getting nose bleeds may mean that the Losties aren't actually immune like we think they are and the bearing has little meaning. They and Faraday may just be taking longer because they've been on the island the shortest amount of time since it's like both Miles and Charlotte have been there previously. We've yet to see any of them have any conscience jumping, though. Just the blacking out/nosebleeds.

I think that this is closer to what I think to be the truth. It wouldn't make sense for Rousseau's group to suffer from the consciousness issue because, let's remember: it didn't affect Sayid or Frank when they were on the helicopter with Desmond on their way out to the boat the first time around. Plus, Desmond surely crashed on the island using a wrong coordinate, and he didn't have any effects until he tried to leave again.

So while the time jumps and the island's general wackiness are going to be a concern in terms of nosebleeds and the virus and all of that jazz, the consciousness shift shouldn't be involved.

 

[ErasureAcer]

Glad the episode showed Rousseau was pregnant before she met Jin so I don't have to hear all week how Jin is Alex's father. Trust me...it would have happened. :lol

 

[gdt]

Holy shit.

I'm rewatching "The Constant" and all the rules are explicitly laid out.

The meeting between Desmond and Farraday at Oxford is happened to Farraday but he forgot it because of the time experiments messed with his memory. He didn't protect his head from the radiation, cant change the future, etc etc etc.

Watch the episode again, Lindelcuse have been using it as their guidebook through time travel.

Edit: At the time we didn't know how important this episode would be, but in light of the recent going-ons its pretty invaluable in explaining how time travel works on the show. And it kill adamsappel's theory.

 

[adamsappel]

random question:
is "bare in mind" or "bear in mind" or can you use both?

Bear, as in "carry."

This doesn't at all explain why Richard knows to give Locke his compass and present it to him because the next time they meet he won't recognize him. Or why he knows to visit baby Locke since by your theory, he won't remember Locke telling him when he was born until the "present."

True! Like I said, I could be wrong. I often am. I think all of our theories will be proven wrong in some way. I also think you mean "consciousness," not "conscience."

How do we know that people from the future aren't here already? Perhaps they're lurking in the jungle a la the losties... I think we won't be able to confirm the theory that the effects of the time travellers are already present until we see another tie-in to s1-s3 stuff.

It's just a too-tricky-by-half theory. I trust the writers to be smarter than all of us.

Edit: At the time we didn't know how important this episode would be, but in light of the recent going-ons its pretty invaluable in explaining how time travel works on the show. And it kill adamsappel's theory.

Done and done again!

 

[brandonh83]

Glad the episode showed Rousseau was pregnant before she met Jin so I don't have to hear all week how Jin is Alex's father. Trust me...it would have happened. :lol

:lol

all joking aside Jin is getting fucked with, both physically and mentally. he's on a boat when it explodes, the island let him live so now he's floating around on a raft out at sea, perhaps seeing the bright flashes during every travel episode, but doesn't know the island is skipping in time, and is rescued by young Roussaeu :lol