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Lost Season 2 Episode 12 - "Fire and Water"
- Thread starter Lakitu
- Start date
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The Storyteller
Member
What's with everyone only now coming to the realisation that the writers have been stalling and drawing things out as long as possible? It became painfully obvious that they were doing this half way through season 1 and even more obvious with the predictable fillerish finale. Well.. better late than never.
I thought the washer and dryer comment might have been a joke about how Internet folks sprung on discovering what models they were and how they had just hit the market and stuff. I thought it was a poke at us.teiresias said:
And wait. How would Hurley have stepped on her foot if she was in the back of the plane and he was the last one on?
jamesinclair
Banned
Dan said:
Good point on both. I agree that the washer comment is probably for the fans.
And yeah, she was a tallie, and he sat closer to the front.
Meh.
Charlie is a boring character and his back-story has been rehashed so many times now. I thought last weeks flashback didn't tell us much new, but this was even worse. We knew all of this stuff last season. They completely ignored the last episode too, which they seem to be doing a lot this season. Does no one care about Michael? How is the army-building thing progressing?
There are so many plot points the writers could be doing. The Numbers, Monster, Hatch, Others, what happened to Desmond/Danielle/Walt/Michael/Cindy, all of the weird shit that happens on the island, many characters that can be killed off, Dharma back-story, etc. The amount of filler is really ridiculous with all these plot points being ignored and all the breaks they are taking.
Charlie is a boring character and his back-story has been rehashed so many times now. I thought last weeks flashback didn't tell us much new, but this was even worse. We knew all of this stuff last season. They completely ignored the last episode too, which they seem to be doing a lot this season. Does no one care about Michael? How is the army-building thing progressing?
There are so many plot points the writers could be doing. The Numbers, Monster, Hatch, Others, what happened to Desmond/Danielle/Walt/Michael/Cindy, all of the weird shit that happens on the island, many characters that can be killed off, Dharma back-story, etc. The amount of filler is really ridiculous with all these plot points being ignored and all the breaks they are taking.
Link
The Autumn Wind
Didn't think of that, good call.Mooreberg said:
Also a good catch. I hope that's a hint and not just poor writing.Dan said:
I'd have to agree that this episode really served no purpose in its flashbacks. There was nothing there we didn't know already, and ultimately, it was just a retelling of what we already saw. It's like they ran out of backstory for Charlie, but needed something to show during this episode since the events on the island revolved around him.
You shut your mouth!border said:
VPhys said:
And right I was. Now that the episode is finished on the WC I can officially say it's the worst episode of lost so far. Charlie's backstory was completely uninteresting. He was on drugs, his faimly was on drugs,... blah blah blah.
The only redeeming point was when Lock busted a
"You got knocked, the F*ck out!"
Greenpanda
Banned
teiresias said:
I thought that maybe they'd met or were somehow connected in their pre-island backstories.
Isn't Libby a clinical psychologist? Hurley used to live in a mental hospital, didn't she? Maybe she worked there?
boredJonathan
Member
Slurpy said:
Except now if they kill him off it will be as hollow a death as Shannon's was. They should have killed him off when Ethan hung him instead of giving him some bullshit 11th hour save.
That being said, I honetly thought this was one of the better episodes so far. Setting up Locke to be everyone's new favorite to hate is *finally* happening now that we have the light (Eko) to Locke's dark. It took god damned forever, and I have no hope of this show actually pulling it off but god damnit it has so much potential to rock that I can do nothing but watch and hope.
The main story with Charlie moved him from one place to another story wise, which was neccesary for them to do *anything* with his character, I just wish it would have been told with a bit more interest for the subject matter. Its as if the writers themselves knew it was going to be a filler episode and didn't even try.
They knew they had to get from point A to point B and got there in the most uninteresting way imaginable. Its a good thing they added in the side bits, and that Charlie has consistently been one of the better characters on the show.
ErasureAcer
Banned
I agree from the last episode or whenever he discovered the drugs in the statues I was like..."Don't turn this into an on-going thing" and the writers listened(somehow) and Charlie's character is in a new place now with a story that can actually move somewhere...he's an outsider. This episode might not have been the most jawdropping(although Locke puniching Charlie took me for surprise)...it was key to Charlie's character. He's a lonely soul on or off the island. Claire means a lot to him and now he has no one and no drugs to ease his pain. He's a new man and anything can happen with him. I like the David vs. Goliath matchup of him vs. John. Charlie should be bitter for being beaten up when he was telling John the truth that he wasn't using. There was some mythology in the episode as well. Why was Charlie having those vivid dreams? Why did Claire still listen to his advice even despite her hating him? If anyone should die next it's Claire. Talk about a bad mother, she can't even look after her kid. Her story is going absolutely nowhere...and I can only hope this baptism is only in place for her fans to know she'll see Aaron again in the afterlife.
I watched the first season on DVD, so filler eps. like this weren't such a pain. Now I understand the true horror.
Anyway, here's a theory: Locke loves it on the island, he can walk there! The Others walk down and are all "Hey Locke, hang out with us, feed us some secrets and you too can be a mystery hillbilly" and he's all "Cool, dude". Hmm?
Anyway, 2.12 was the hourof my life where NOTHING HAPPENED. Stop stealing babies.
Anyway, here's a theory: Locke loves it on the island, he can walk there! The Others walk down and are all "Hey Locke, hang out with us, feed us some secrets and you too can be a mystery hillbilly" and he's all "Cool, dude". Hmm?
Anyway, 2.12 was the hourof my life where NOTHING HAPPENED. Stop stealing babies.
heavy liquid
Member
Some random thoughts on last night's episode.
-I wonder if Eko is marking the trees that he likes in order to build a church where the fire was?
-Some ominous shots of Locke, and uncharactistic behavior from him. Hmm. He's not an Other, but I wonder if he's working with them now? Remember Danielle saying her people became "infected"?
-Speaking of that, I wonder when we'll see Danielle and Desmond again?
-I think Libbey remembers Hurley, but isn't letting that on to him. Kind of like how Jack pretended not to remember Desmond at first.
Overall though, it was a pretty weak episode. It seems painfully obvious they're dragging it out to last as long as possible.
-I wonder if Eko is marking the trees that he likes in order to build a church where the fire was?
-Some ominous shots of Locke, and uncharactistic behavior from him. Hmm. He's not an Other, but I wonder if he's working with them now? Remember Danielle saying her people became "infected"?
-Speaking of that, I wonder when we'll see Danielle and Desmond again?
-I think Libbey remembers Hurley, but isn't letting that on to him. Kind of like how Jack pretended not to remember Desmond at first.
Overall though, it was a pretty weak episode. It seems painfully obvious they're dragging it out to last as long as possible.
teruterubozu
Member
DSN2K said:
I think it's really last week's and this week's bad episodes combined. Somebody better get killed or miss inputting the computer code quick or this show will get old fast. Everyone I know is slowly losing interest in "Lost".
I'm also kind of getting sick of the "everyone is happy around the campfire" endings every episode.
I was really hoping for a Satanic ritual with the baby, but that would have been too interesting.
marvelharvey
Member
teruterubozu said:
don't forget to combine that with the 6 weeks (or whatever) of waiting that we had to endure + people perspectives of pacing have changed with the arrival of the Bauer Power Hour.
Next week needs all kind of fucked up shit to happen to maintain my interest.
Edit: hold on, didn't someone mention that next week was a rerun? ARRRGGGHHHH
Kung Fu Jedi
Member
Kind of early to start re-runs again when we just got back from an extended break.
This episode was very average for me. It didn't do much to advance things, but I do think it set some subtle things down for later. Adding a layer for what's to come. Charlie is now an outcast, not just from Claire, but pretty much everyone. Locke seems to be moving in a new direction as well, more bitter and hard. Kate showed some glimmers of jealousy when she saw Jack with Ana Lucia, and there seemed to be some chemistry between them as well.
Ana Lucia, who had a small role in last nights episode, seemed to be a little less annoying that she has in the past. Perhaps it was the small doses of her, perhaps it was the "Are you hitting that?" comment.
While this was a filler episode, and one of the slower ones, I do think it set up a lot for where the series is headed the rest of the season.
And all those GAF'ers who say the show has jumped the shark, isn't going anywhere, or that they are slowly losing interest. Why don't you just quit watching now? If you think it's so bad, why waste your time. Watch something else, and quit coming into these threads to tell us how the show sucks because it doesn't show the monster each week, or we didn't see the things that you wanted to see. A lot of us love the mystery of the show, and the ride it's taking us on. We even like the character development and backstories. Move along now to something more to your liking. Please.
This episode was very average for me. It didn't do much to advance things, but I do think it set some subtle things down for later. Adding a layer for what's to come. Charlie is now an outcast, not just from Claire, but pretty much everyone. Locke seems to be moving in a new direction as well, more bitter and hard. Kate showed some glimmers of jealousy when she saw Jack with Ana Lucia, and there seemed to be some chemistry between them as well.
Ana Lucia, who had a small role in last nights episode, seemed to be a little less annoying that she has in the past. Perhaps it was the small doses of her, perhaps it was the "Are you hitting that?" comment.
While this was a filler episode, and one of the slower ones, I do think it set up a lot for where the series is headed the rest of the season.
And all those GAF'ers who say the show has jumped the shark, isn't going anywhere, or that they are slowly losing interest. Why don't you just quit watching now? If you think it's so bad, why waste your time. Watch something else, and quit coming into these threads to tell us how the show sucks because it doesn't show the monster each week, or we didn't see the things that you wanted to see. A lot of us love the mystery of the show, and the ride it's taking us on. We even like the character development and backstories. Move along now to something more to your liking. Please.
So the only "important" things we learned last night were:
1. Charlie has "daddy issues" like most of the cast
2. Locke is hording guns and heroin.
3. Ana and Jack are doing something in the woods (Sawyer said he saw them go in and come back out 3 times). Are they preparing for the army?
4. Eko like trees
5. Charlie isn't on drug (like we all knew).
1. Charlie has "daddy issues" like most of the cast
2. Locke is hording guns and heroin.
3. Ana and Jack are doing something in the woods (Sawyer said he saw them go in and come back out 3 times). Are they preparing for the army?
4. Eko like trees
5. Charlie isn't on drug (like we all knew).
Kung Fu Jedi
Member
Willco said:
Perhaps that's the way you feel about it, but a lot of us still enjoy the show and where it's headed. Last nights episode was the first for me that really didn't feel like it brought much new to the story, but as I've said, I think it was setting things up for the future. Otherwise, I and a lot of other people, enjoy where the show is "meandering".
Kung Fu Jedi
Member
Willco said:
I suppose. But it gets old every week to have a thread like this and have a bunch of people crying about how they don't like where the show is headed, over and over, even after an excellent episode. The show is far from "Jumping the Shark" as some have said. And I do think poor episodes deserve some bashing. I felt last nights was one of the poorer episodes of the series, but in part because the bar is set pretty high.
Perhaps I should just take my own advice, and stay out of these threads instead.
Cauliflower of Love
Banned
Libby's a gold digger.
I think she's been stalking hurley, tryin to get in his life, his "have I seen you before" is from seeing her randomly around.
GOLD DIGGER.
I think she's been stalking hurley, tryin to get in his life, his "have I seen you before" is from seeing her randomly around.
GOLD DIGGER.
ErasureAcer
Banned
Cauliflower of Love said:
Interesting.
boredJonathan
Member
Cauliflower of Love said:
If the mental hospital theory didn't make so much sense I would have gone for porn star.
It would explain her reluctance to explain where Hurley knows her from. Also perhaps her psychologist thing is just what she has a degree in? They could do the cliche porn/stripper story line with her. Only started doing it to work her way through college.. then got stuck doing it.
In fact... I think that might play better than having her know Hurley from the institute. It would make her a bit of an outcast from the islanders and open up lots of one liners from Sawyer.
Just finished watching. I thought that this episode was a MAJOR improvement from last week's crap....although it would be nice to get back to some of the mysteries, as there are plenty to choose from.
And I was pretty shocked to see Locke whoop Charlie like that. I mean, what the fuck is wrong with him?
And I was pretty shocked to see Locke whoop Charlie like that. I mean, what the fuck is wrong with him?
I really liked this episode but then again, I like Charlie. The backstory was a bit weak and didn't add much to Charlie's story like some have said but the stuff on the island was cool. I felt sorry for Charlie, he brings it on himself a lot but still, his heart's in the right place, even if his actions don't always show it.
I was kind of hoping he'd get pissed at Locke when he got caught with the heroin. Locke's a fine one to talk about lying - he lied about the hatch and the plane and is part responsible Boone's death. A part of me hopes the baby is in danger (and that it's just not because he wasn't baptised) to prove him right!
As for new episodes - sucks about the repeat but epguides and tv.com are listing a double bill on the 15th Feb? Big plot movements ahoy?
I was kind of hoping he'd get pissed at Locke when he got caught with the heroin. Locke's a fine one to talk about lying - he lied about the hatch and the plane and is part responsible Boone's death. A part of me hopes the baby is in danger (and that it's just not because he wasn't baptised) to prove him right!
As for new episodes - sucks about the repeat but epguides and tv.com are listing a double bill on the 15th Feb? Big plot movements ahoy?
Brian Fellows
Pete Carroll Owns Me
Cauliflower of Love said:
Yep that was what I thought too.
I figure libby as a gold digger too, shrink is too obvious. Also the look on her face when hurley turned round. Not sure why she would still be a gold digger on the island though...and i would have thought Sawyer would have a kind of CONdar as thats the way it generally works in these shows..mind you he doesnt know hurley is loaded (yet).
I liked this episode right up till the end because everything was just left up in the air and you know nothing will be said about it in the next episode because of the way the format works.
I cant believe what a cunt charlies brother is, his first flashback made him out as a bad guy but selling all Charlies stuff and then fucking off?
Use of the word wanker in an american drama means instant thumbs up from me.
I also like the fact the Locke IS FINALLY BACK TO BEING SUSPICIOUS! He took a hell of a long hiatus playing nice guy but finally the shots of him observing and plotting are back.
I liked this episode right up till the end because everything was just left up in the air and you know nothing will be said about it in the next episode because of the way the format works.
I cant believe what a cunt charlies brother is, his first flashback made him out as a bad guy but selling all Charlies stuff and then fucking off?
Use of the word wanker in an american drama means instant thumbs up from me.
I also like the fact the Locke IS FINALLY BACK TO BEING SUSPICIOUS! He took a hell of a long hiatus playing nice guy but finally the shots of him observing and plotting are back.
Patrick Klepek
furiously molesting tim burton
I'm not sure why people are so disappointed about an episode like this. Admittably, I was miffed about how the writers handled last episode's encounter with the Others, but while the back story here wasn't as interesting, what happened on the island was, and setting up Charley for his next move and opposition to Locke appears crucial to the story's next steps.
So, on the whole, I'm happy. What the shit is with having another repeat next week, though? I mean, we suddenly go six weeks without an episode and then we're stuck waiting again? God damn, I don't understand television scheduling. Just have the series premiere in January next season.
So, on the whole, I'm happy. What the shit is with having another repeat next week, though? I mean, we suddenly go six weeks without an episode and then we're stuck waiting again? God damn, I don't understand television scheduling. Just have the series premiere in January next season.
Dagless M.D.
Member
They are really dragging this out for too long, Charlie should have had a resolution to his heroin problem by now, but the writers seem need to keep some supply of drugs on the island so that they can churn out another filler episode about it
Lakitu said:
http://www.tvsquad.com/2006/01/26/lost-easter-eggs-from-fire-plus-water/
Building: http://community.livejournal.com/lost_tv/1181894.html
Plane: http://community.livejournal.com/lostdiscussion/30267.html
couldn't integrate the links in the quote because i'm no good.
marvelharvey
Member
Ghost said:
Have you been there? It's huge! Maybe the island AND the ocean are INSIDE! o_0
heavy liquid said:
I would not be too surprised if that happened.
Locke seemed pretty suspicious to me in season 1. Things like knocking Sayid out so he couldn't make radio contact, tying Boone up to the tree and drugging him, not telling anyone about the hatch, predicting the exact time it would rain, somehow knowing that the monster would not hurt him. He is the only one who wants to actually stay on the island and he is also the only one besides The Others to recognize that Walt is special too.
Most recently in the Hunting Party episode, Locke tells Sawyer that he knows his real name is James Ford (cause Hurley gave him the passenger manifest). Then a few minutes later they meet with The Others and the bearded guy knows all their names.
It also looked like the others' boat was off the right in the water beyond the commercial director's trailer. Somebody with an abc.com account needs to post a message about this and and also ask "when will this season stop sucking?" and maybe we will get an answer on a podcast.
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