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Love souls games but I cannot get into Nioh

mcjmetroid

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Feb 11, 2019
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Really enjoy From software's games and I really think it's a case of nobody does it better.

But this is my second time trying Nioh after finishing Sekiro for the first time ( by the way Sekiro is essential on PC)

Obviously the performance is great but still it's lacking something. I have finished and enjoyed every 'Souls' game.

Now I'm on only a short bit into my play through but I'm been hit again by something is off. Im told it gets better eventually though.

The combat is good but I think it might be the level design that's off? Or how gloomy is it?

What did you guys think of Nioh?
Is Nioh 2 an improvement?
And is there any souls games from another company you'd recommend or is it really a case of nobody does it better?
 
Jan 16, 2020
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I think it's a case of nobody does it better, but Nioh comes pretty close for me.

I loved it, but I felt the combat was unnecessarily complex, the equipment was annoying to manage, and it overstayed its welcome.

The game feels great to play and often had stunning environments. I enjoyed the heavy atmosphere in particular. The story was surprisingly decent too.

But it's no From game.
 

mcjmetroid

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Feb 11, 2019
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I think it's a case of nobody does it better, but Nioh comes pretty close for me.

I loved it, but I felt the combat was unnecessarily complex, the equipment was annoying to manage, and it overstayed its welcome.

The game feels great to play and often had stunning environments. I enjoyed the heavy atmosphere in particular. The story was surprisingly decent too.

But it's no From game.
It's still a very competent action game to me.

Souls games kinda spoil you. They're just the best at what they do. Even ones fans are hard on like Dark Souls 2 was still better than 99% of other Rpg action games at the time and even now.
 
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Harry Tung

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Jun 1, 2018
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Me neither. Got super bored with it during the final stages and just quit. The game does have a couple of really good bosses, and the combat with different stances is pretty fucking good as well. But it doesn't even come close to the king.

Gotta mention the OST as well. Okatsu boss fight and music is easily the biggest highlight of the game. At least for me. Dat fucking adrenaline rush during this fight.

 
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Punished Miku

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Jan 13, 2018
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What did you guys think of Nioh?
Is Nioh 2 an improvement?
And is there any souls games from another company you'd recommend or is it really a case of nobody does it better?
I think it's a complete masterpiece, 10/10. Nioh 2 is basically just a refinement and improvement on everything in the game, and is more of a Nioh 1.5 in a sense. Most of the assets are reused and just added on, but instead they just focused on improving and streamlining every aspect of the game and expanding the monster variety. Nioh 2 is my GOTY.

The star of Nioh is not the level design, or story - but the combat itself. Most of the bosses are unbelievably polished and well made. When Nioh 1 had their first two betas, I just replayed levels 1 and 2 for 10 hours over a weekend and kept improving on my stance changing, my timing, my dodges, and on reading all the boss' moves. Everyone that seems to struggle with these games, I recommend doing the same thing I did, and just replaying the first couple levels. Unlock the counter and just work on your timing. Unlock the move that improves ki recovery when stance changing, and suddenly you realize you can sit in low stance for precision dodges, and then ki pulse off the dodge itself while changing to medium or heavy stance when there's an opening to do heavy damage hits, and then ki pulse and change back to low after the hit and retreat. Or sit in medium stance and focus more on defense and counter hits. TYou can play an entirely ranged build or a magic heavy build, or an item ninjitsu heavy build with poisons and explosives. Or you can make a magic build focused on healing and defensive buffs. There's also a ton of options for weapons, and they all are unique enough that you could play large chunks of the game with just one weapon and have a totally different experience. One of the best things about the combat is that the same rules apply for the enemies that apply to you as well, and you can really exploit their missed or blocked attacks to tear down their fatigue in ways that rewards careful tactical decisions. It makes all the enemies feel alive and like real, intelligent combatants.

And especially in part 2, multiplayer adds another huge additional incentive to keep playing, and it's easy and fun to get into games constantly. You can help new people get through levels and bosses while you repeat them and just perfect your strategies, enjoying the fun of playing through tough sections almost flawlessly in front of other players. You can equip buffs and healing items to help other players, which always is appreciated and is fun to do.

And then the main things about part 2 that make it better is just tons of QOL improvements that make it easy to compare and sort equipment, to save multiple builds, to make custom characters and change your appearance easily, and on and on. Just one playthrough can take you 80 hours easily if you want, and then the game has multiple new game + modes. In addition to that, both games have high quality DLC expansions that add multiple new weapons, and bosses.

If you have more of an action game background, it should be one of the best games ever. If you play souls more for lore or pure exploration, then maybe it could feel a little lacking, but that's it really. It doesn't even have bad level design, and I kind of like that it's a little more linear and it keeps the pace up a bit more for me without lots of backtracking or aimless wandering.

Combat in most souls games consists of a few basic strikes, and only in part 3 you have 1 weapon art. In Nioh you have dozens and dozens of complex special moves that can be equipped to button commands and altered with stance changes. You can even equip status effects and elemental bonuses to specific moves. And you can equip two weapons and switch between them during combos. The combat in a souls game is just infinitely more simplistic in comparison. The two games excel at different things.
 
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Saruhashi

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Oct 2, 2018
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Really enjoy From software's games and I really think it's a case of nobody does it better.

But this is my second time trying Nioh after finishing Sekiro for the first time ( by the way Sekiro is essential on PC)

Obviously the performance is great but still it's lacking something. I have finished and enjoyed every 'Souls' game.

Now I'm on only a short bit into my play through but I'm been hit again by something is off. Im told it gets better eventually though.

The combat is good but I think it might be the level design that's off? Or how gloomy is it?

What did you guys think of Nioh?
Is Nioh 2 an improvement?
And is there any souls games from another company you'd recommend or is it really a case of nobody does it better?

I think Nioh's problem is they knew how readily it would be compared to Dark Souls so they added a bunch of stuff that would make it different from Dark Souls. Then all that added stuff, all the loot and different stances and moves and unlock able skills and so on were the weakest parts of the game so the sum of its parts made it less than dark souls.

The bosses are really great, in my opinion, but the level design is a bit gloomy and bland and it felt kind of too easy to get lost as a result.

I think as a game its a bit more overwhelming than Dark Souls and I ended up feeling like there is so much stuff going on that I'm not sure if I am getting the most out of the game or properly using its systems.

Still a good game though. Just if they were going to copy From's homework they should have just copied and not tried so hard to dress it up like "the same but different, honest, look at all the weird and redundant systems we have that don't make the game better, really."
 
Feb 9, 2018
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I liked Nioh but I don't think I'd play through it again. I've replayed all of the Soulsborne games many times, with the exception of Sekiro.
 

Hudo

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NiOh looks like a Soulslike but it isn't. And I usually find that people who hate NiOh are usually those who try to play it as a Soulslike. For me, it's the other way around. I don't really find any of the From Software games particularly fun (Except for Sekiro, which was alright.) but I really like NiOh. And for me, NiOh 2 is a VAST improvment over the first.
 
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GymWolf

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The only thing where nioh is better than souls game is the combat (and the loot if you are into it), everything else is inferior to souls games, not a surprise that many people can't love the game in the same way.

I care a lot about level design and enemies art design\diversification and souls games blow nioh out of the water in these aspects.

I onestly enjoyed surge saga more especially the second one.
 
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fersnake

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Dec 11, 2016
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i bought the first Nioh last year havent finished yet. love somethings hate others, it's kinda close to the souls games but not

ps. i haven finished DS3 either im close to beat it so it's no beggy.
 
May 8, 2020
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NioH could have done better to give the player a reason to engage with it story in the first region. It gets better as the combat, storyline and leveling opens up but it never reaches excellence.

In some ways I think NioH 2 is better for those trying to get into the franchise as first timers. It does a better job at it - at least for the very crucial first few hours.
 
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Raphael

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Mar 23, 2013
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Really enjoy From software's games and I really think it's a case of nobody does it better.

But this is my second time trying Nioh after finishing Sekiro for the first time ( by the way Sekiro is essential on PC)

Obviously the performance is great but still it's lacking something. I have finished and enjoyed every 'Souls' game.

Now I'm on only a short bit into my play through but I'm been hit again by something is off. Im told it gets better eventually though.

The combat is good but I think it might be the level design that's off? Or how gloomy is it?

What did you guys think of Nioh?
Is Nioh 2 an improvement?
And is there any souls games from another company you'd recommend or is it really a case of nobody does it better?
Couldnt go back to souls after nioh 1 and 2. Its so smooth in comparison and the faster combat is great. Wasnt a fan of the loot at first but got used to it, and ended up enjoying it. Levels are alright some are great some are so-so, but i would Say there are less bad levels than in souls.
They did a fantastic job. Only thing that sucks is its aweful graphics on ps4. After i upgraded to 4k OLED i cant really look at it anyone its so bad. It looks ok on my fullhd...
 

balls of snow

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Oct 13, 2020
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Same. I quit probably a quarter into Nioh 1. Its the unecessary diablo like loot, lack of enemy variety and just plain bored with the setting and wtf story. Sekiro pretty much sealed the deal that I'll never touch the series.
 

Gandih42

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Dec 25, 2019
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Like most people are saying, Nioh is much more about the complex combat systems than discovery, exploration and lore. Well, perhaps if you're into Japanese history the lore will be more interesting (I don't know much about it so most of it flew over my head).

I am personally not a fan of the mission structure and I think for the most part the level design is weak. Not too much visual variety, not enough verticality, and not enough story telling with the environment.

But the combat is really fun if you engage with it. Stance changing, counter moves, ki pulse, living weapons, ninjutsu and spells ... So many options. I would recommend thinking of it more of an action game first, with some stylings of souls games.

The loot system is a whole other layer, but in my experience it doesn't matter too much until NG+, as long as you keep the level of your weapons up. I went quite deep into it, playing up to NG+3, trying out different builds. At that point it feels like it goes more towards a 3rd person Diablo type of game, where you are building towards specific high damage skills and moves.

Perhaps if you change your approach to it a bit it'll be easier to get into but otherwise it might just not be your cup of tea. As for other soulslikes, I really loved the Surge, both 1 and 2. They are much closer to the souls games in terms of combat, atmosphere, gameplay and level design, so I think they may agree with you more than Nioh. I think 1 had a better story and atmosphere but the level design and combat is much improved in 2 (really awesome directional parry system, among other things). The DLC is decent in both, but not a must.

I haven't played Nioh 2 yet but I'm glad to hear there's a consensus it's pretty much Nioh 1 but better :messenger_sunglasses:
 
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Ar¢tos

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I enjoyed it and even went all the way to get 100% trophies (including DLCs trophies, that were extremely time consuming).
The level design was mediocre, the combat was Ok, faster than souls, even than Bloodborne with the right weapons, I didn't mind the stances, it added depth to the game, but If a new souls game was released while I was playing it, I would drop Nioh as soon as that Souls finished installing.
It's better than Lords of the Fallen, but slightly behind Blasphemous for me.
 

Soodanim

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Feb 24, 2012
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I bought and played Nioh earlier this year, and like you and everyone else I come from a Souls background.

I enjoyed the speed of it, and initially it filled the Souls void. But a lot of things didn’t quite click for me the way they would have in Souls and there were plenty of either spongey or very hard hitting enemies that stopped being fun when it seemed like the game was trying too hard to be harder than Souls. I still had a lot of fun though, and I very much enjoyed some of the systems. I finished the story, and had every intention of going into NG+/higher difficulties to get better and better gear.

I realised the DLC was out of my league, and quit that after not beating a boss and thinking “This isn’t fun dying in 2 hits to an erratic boss”. That’s okay though, I moved onto NG+/higher difficulty and did a few missions. But all of a sudden I was just finished. Lost all motivation to play and uninstalled it after a week.

I’m going to buy Sekiro eventually, and I have no desire to play Nioh 2.
 

CrysisFreak

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Nioh is much more blocking based because it has less iframes on dodge. Only dodge fast telegraphed attacks and the ones where you need get out of an AOE range.
It's actually much more responsive and deep than Dark Souls.
Playing for example Bloodborne after Nioh 2 is impossible, it's a janky mess.
I can only recommend you roll with the Odachi in Nioh 2. It's unga-bunga borderline easy mode.
Nioh 2 is way better than the first one.
 

TonyK

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I managed to end the main game but I give up in the expansion Dragon of the North. When difficulty goes beyond entertainment then I don't understand why I continue playing. I felt the game as a chore, something I need to finish to uninstall it and never come to it again.

I read a post here from a person that really enjoy the game and explains in deep the combat. I admire that but I simply don't want to invest that effort. I want to play as I play Darksouls, not Soul Calibur.
 
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SaturnSaturn

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Opposite, really liked nioh and ninja gaiden, but could never get into souls, feels to heavy and clunky.
 
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My deep love of souls games makes it really hard for me to get into any "soulslike" because they're mere imitations of what I really want. Dark Souls 2 is a soulslike btw
 
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Tekkie

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Nioh just isn't anywhere near as good and level design is one of the key elements, yeah. It's one of those things Fromsoft excels at that isn't all that obvious at first glance, but you'll really notice it as you play through these type of Soulslikes. Neither Souls, nor Bloodborne or Sekiro do things that haven't been done before, it's all about HOW they use it and that probably makes it really hard to get right, in fact no one else has so far.
 

Kamina

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Jun 2, 2013
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I think in order to enjoy Nioh/Nioh2 you have to really like the Japanese Mythology and the Mission-based structure.

Dark Souls‘ Interconnected world certainly is an advantage to many people pecause you dont get ripped out of the world like in Nioh, but at the same time Nioh allows for more variance in missions.

I love them both, for ther similarities as well as their difference.
 
Jan 16, 2020
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I’m going to buy Sekiro eventually, and I have no desire to play Nioh 2.

Yeah, I wanted to be excited for Nioh 2, but I just can't bring myself to play it. Despite enjoying Nioh overall, I feel like it really killed any desire for more and I'm still fatigued by it more than a year later. Beating Sekiro shortly afterwards pretty much sealed it too.
 
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Whataborman

Unconfirmed Member
What did you guys think of Nioh?
Is Nioh 2 an improvement?

Nioh isn't a souls game. It's an Action RPG looter with tough combat.

I had a tough time getting into the game when I tried to play it like a Souls game. It wasn't until I picked weapons that were very un-soulslike that things started to click with me. Combat is much faster paced, rewards aggression more (via Ki Pulse), and I'd argue, probably much deeper than souls games.

My suggestion is to play Nioh 2. It really is A LOT better than the first game and has some really interesting weapons.
 
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GymWolf

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Opposite, really liked nioh and ninja gaiden, but could never get into souls, feels to heavy and clunky.
I mean ninja gaiden is a pure action game compared to souls saga, it's more similar to dmc and bayo then souls game.
 

GymWolf

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Nioh just isn't anywhere near as good and level design is one of the key elements, yeah. It's one of those things Fromsoft excels at that isn't all that obvious at first glance, but you'll really notice it as you play through these type of Soulslikes. Neither Souls, nor Bloodborne or Sekiro do things that haven't been done before, it's all about HOW they use it and that probably makes it really hard to get right, in fact no one else has so far.
If you like intricate level design take a look at surge 2.
 
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Lanrutcon

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Ended up not liking Nioh at all. Finished it, did not do DLC.

The levels ended up being so tedious. There's a corner? Enemy put right next to it. Rafters? Enemy waiting to drop down. Guy standing across from the entrance with no-one else in sight? At least one more enemy hidden. Bunch of destructible shit piled in a corner? Hiding an enemy. Narrow ledge you need to cross with alcoves? Dude waiting to push you off. It works the first dozen or so times, and then it just becomes predictable. You can read every room in Nioh like a book because it only has a handful of tricks it recycles a hundred times. By the time you're a few levels in you realise you're not exploring environments: you're running little linear rat mazes filled with formulaic mouse traps.

Then there's the equipment system. Oh boy. The busywork of converting 99% of your drops to currencies because they're trash. And then obviously, let's invalidate your gear every time you jump a difficulty level. Grinding: just what every Souls game needed.

And finally the fucking stance system. Let's shove some fighting game bullshit in there as well! It'll mix well with the Diablo loot system and dilute the whole experience down even further.
 
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Whataborman

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And finally the fucking stance system.

I do HATE the stance system. It's the weakest part of Nioh and Nioh 2. Most of that could be streamlined with special moves and combos, without having to worry about changing stances mid-fight.

On the other hand, I love the Diablo-esque loot system, but then again I have something like 1,500 hours into Path of Exile, which is all about the loot.
 
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MiguelItUp

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I don't see anything wrong with that, I've known plenty of From fans that couldn't get into Nioh. Or other Souls-like games for that matter.

I personally wanna give Nioh a try as I'm not a big fan of the Souls series, so I wonder if I'd like it more, or less.
 

Aidah

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Dark Souls 1/3, Bloodborne, Sekiro, are some of my all time favorites. (I look forward to adding Demon's Souls to the list in November).

I liked Nioh 1, but I thought it was mostly its own game. I played most of its content and enjoyed it consistently enough for the most part. My main problem with it is that at one point you can break the game and basically remove all challenge. It's bad enough that I intentionally avoid using certain moves in order to still have a challenge and enjoy the game.

The other major issue I had with it is that the enemy and level variety isn't appropriate for the amount of content. I got tired of fighting the same enemies way before the content was over.

So, it could have used a bit of a higher budget.

I probably had other more minor issues with it, but these are what I remember.

I haven't played Nioh 2, so obviously I'm not that crazy about the first game. However, it's partly because it's only on PS4.

Anyway, overall, yes It's not Miyazaki tier shit, but what is, but It's definitely worth playing, there is a lot of cool stuff and good challenges in there.
 
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Clear

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Nioh and Nioh 2 are just better games for me than any of the Souls titles. There's just vastly more depth and intricacy to everything from the combat to the gear crafting to the loot system. Even the cut-scenes are generally far better.

What's more the multiple difficulty levels and sheer number of missions justifies the complexity, especially as the way the game is structured makes it far more flexible and suited to experimentation with the tools you have to hand.

As Endless Fluff pointed out, Nioh is not the same as Souls.

If you try and play Nioh or especially Nioh2 like a Souls' title you are going to have a much worse time than were you to embrace its numerous systems and tactical variety. I mean complaints like enemy ambushes being too frequent is kind of a perfect example of this. In Nioh you can make yourself completely undetectable to most enemies using Ninjutsu, so while you are learning placements you can sneak around in complete safety. Large enemies hiding in clouds of Yokai mist can be avoided, or even one-shot without losing invisibility if you have a strong enough attack.

This never gets to be a crutch either because using a structure of discrete missions, everything is learnable in the long-term. Obviously the best tactic is always to kill everything in your way, so if you can comfortably handle whatever the game throws at you you may as well get all the experience and loot that you can to bolster your chances in the next, tougher mission. And in Nioh, there's always a next, tougher mission with new better gear to craft and/or collect to make it doable.

I love FROM's games but its very obvious to me that they've been on a path of streamlining and simplification since DS2, Nioh on the other hand has gone in the exact opposite direction, with Nioh2 having even more weapon classes, magic, and skills to learn than its predecessor.
 
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RokkanStoned

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Really enjoy From software's games and I really think it's a case of nobody does it better.

But this is my second time trying Nioh after finishing Sekiro for the first time ( by the way Sekiro is essential on PC)

Obviously the performance is great but still it's lacking something. I have finished and enjoyed every 'Souls' game.

Now I'm on only a short bit into my play through but I'm been hit again by something is off. Im told it gets better eventually though.

The combat is good but I think it might be the level design that's off? Or how gloomy is it?

What did you guys think of Nioh?
Is Nioh 2 an improvement?
And is there any souls games from another company you'd recommend or is it really a case of nobody does it better?

I didn't get into Nioh initially either. Though the same can be said for Dark Souls as well, which I bought at release but dropped for about 2 years until getting into it again. I was hit by the same feeling as you in the beginning, but once I got more and more progression I got hooked. Especially as I found the weapon types that I liked as well and the whole pulsing thing became instinctive. Getting past the initial areas in Japan really makes you invested into the gameplay loop. Of course, it's also different than Dark Souls in feeling, but the general enjoyment I get is similar to the feeling of mastery in Souls games.

So I recommend continuing on, perhaps switching out a weapon if it doesn't jive with you. How far have you gotten in the game?
 
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Oct 2, 2019
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Don't approach Ni-Oh the same way you approach a DS game, it's more of Ninja Gaiden plus some aspects of Dark Souls and a sprinkle of Diablo and other RPG looters.

What makes DS games good is the level design and some encounter design and not the actual combat, Ni-Oh is more focused on the combat and it's mechanics and less on the level design hence the mission structure, if you take Ni-Oh's combat and put in a Souls game it'll still work and it will be an amazing game, but vice versa it'll be a terrible game.

Give it time and come back to it when you're in the mood, the real meat and potatos really start in the NG+ modes AKA (the way of the strong/demon/nioh).
 
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#Phonepunk#

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i'm with you. a combo of uninspired level design (From's really can't be topped) and repeated enemies made me get tired of this game long before it was over. the combat was fun but when a boss was frustrating it was way worse than Souls has ever been. i've still never beaten it.

it really highlights all the amazing things From does, by doing them poorly, so when i go back to a Souls title i am glad to see, for instance, unique enemies that are tied to their environments, or level design that looks unique and handmade rather than build from pre-made blocks. From does things like that to keep their games fresh and when it's missing, it's sorely missed.

also the inventory system on Nioh was the worst i think i've seen in any RPG. no way to sort things, they aren't even listed by name, just a giant mess of all the shit you have picked up in random order.
 
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The level design is MUCH worse in the Nioh series. I consider that the main reason why it didn’t resonate with me. The atmosphere is very different from the souls games as well but it certainly isn’t bad.
 

Northeastmonk

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NiOh can be amazing, especially NiOh2. I do not like how the mission based structure makes the wold flow break. Sometimes I don’t want to stay in the same area, but I wish I could come back without having to use an item or restart a mission. NiOh 2 has better bosses if you ask me. Micromanaging everything and making sure you use Scrolls can feel like a break in the overflow of the game. Sometimes a boss just isn’t fun because it looks cool. There are a bunch of cool and fun bosses too. If a boss just attacks and attacks and there’s nothing to make it stand out.