Oh right the game with the clunky combat, repeated boss fights, awful under water sections, one of the worst camera ever for an action game, and the worst final boss for action game is better than DmC. Ok.
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lttp: DmC: definitive edition or this game is better than DMC4
- Thread starter lucablight
- Start date
I don't think anyone is claiming DMC4 didn't have (some significant) problems. What people are excited about is a game with nearly limitless depth in a combat sandbox. Because of this, it brings something really unique to the table that hasn't been matched.
This isn't nostalgia. People are still playing DMC4 today and figuring out new mechanics.
InsaneTiger
Member
Not a mile but more fun and interesting than 4. 4 felt so underwhelming.
FairXchange
Member
As a person who played and beat DMC4, I should really check out DmC: DE. I'll definitely jump on it when it goes on sale.
JediLink
Member
I don't know if they changed things for the Definitive Edition, but in the original, Arbiter >>> everything. It was pretty silly. Also you were playing previous games hella wrong, especially for 3 because in that game weapon switching was more useful than DmC, but even simpler.
UpDownLeftRight
Banned
Well, yeah there's some depth to be found in the combat system but it was hindered by a couple factors. Like I said in my first post I've not had the chance to play the re-release so I'm only comparing the originals from what I can, but at the time at least there was a lot of limitation from the color coding, which apparently has gone and that can only be a good thing. But with that aside I still felt that combat in general was a bit on the slow side for the franchise. There was also a few exploitable tricks such as being able to fly to whatever height through spamming a certain attack. I guess a few things like that just added up to make the combat feel like it got less attention than it usually would.
The biggest change definitely came from the way damage could be exchanged though, but it's also really hard to characterize what I mean by that. There was just something about the way that bosses in particular would flow in DMC4 that I never found in DmC, perhaps it was that I never found the combos, but I also found the scripted scenes throughout the bosses regularly intruded on it.
Seven Force
Banned
I played through DMC1 in it's entirety last weekend, and while it's age definitely shows in some places, it's nowhere near "complete shit".
Still has the best enemy design in the series to date, too.
Nah, you're wrong
Mr. Nice_Guy
Member
I liked DmC, and definitive looks to be much better.
But at the end of the day, DmC Definitive is the "oh geez we totally fucked up the DMC formula, here now we made a version that takes away all of the new features we made and replaces them with stuff from the older games" version. It's a giant admission of how badly they screwed up with DmC.
I'm glad they made it, I really am, but it will always just be what I described above, and that's embarrassing on some level. Very big of them to completely change huge aspects of their game, but still embarrassing.
DMC4 has some of the best combat of any game period, and DmC doesn't hold a candle to most of it. It doesn't back tack and reuse bosses I'll give it that, but otherwise I couldn't disagree with you more. Glad you're enjoying DmC though, action games are a blast and need more love.
But at the end of the day, DmC Definitive is the "oh geez we totally fucked up the DMC formula, here now we made a version that takes away all of the new features we made and replaces them with stuff from the older games" version. It's a giant admission of how badly they screwed up with DmC.
I'm glad they made it, I really am, but it will always just be what I described above, and that's embarrassing on some level. Very big of them to completely change huge aspects of their game, but still embarrassing.
DMC4 has some of the best combat of any game period, and DmC doesn't hold a candle to most of it. It doesn't back tack and reuse bosses I'll give it that, but otherwise I couldn't disagree with you more. Glad you're enjoying DmC though, action games are a blast and need more love.
Makoto Yuki
Banned
I don't think there should be an "controversy" when people think Bayonetta is the best game of this genre because it's way more accessible than DMC. When people say Bayonetta is the best game in the genre I can see why, I just don't agree. DMC3:SE or DMC4 takes that crown, but you can't deny the wide appeal of Bayonetta's satisfying/accessible combat.
Astral Dog
Member
Im not sure about this, the game could not had been a total failure, its still above 1.5 million sold, of course it has its fanbase, good reviews, special edition, etc.
It failed in the sense that it cant replace the original series, but compared to other Western outsourced Capcom games its not the worst, people using sales as a way to dismiss the game is a little weird :/
Minty_Fishbowl
Member
The camera in both 3 and 4 are perfectly fine. While there are some meh bosses like Joker, Agni/Rudra and Vergil are both far above every boss in DmC in terms of challenge and fun. DmC's bosses feel very by the numbers and direct in how you're supposed to fight them, while DMC3's bosses allowed for more freedom in your approach.
I also don't remember 3 or 4 having underwater sections. I only remember those in the first game.
InsaneTiger
Member
Well it didn't do so well for them reboot it to the game you all love to hate.
i take it you just played through the game and didnt really try to experiment much with all the weapons, moves, abilities etc the game gave you. Because otherwise i dont see how any action game fan can say DMC4 isnt 'interesting'
I think there's an extremely huge gap in saying something is unfairly bashed to the point of hypebole, and saying its the best thing ever.
DmC Definitive Edition fixes a lot of the original games issues and now its a fun action game. But to say its better than 1, 3, and 4 is just ridiculous.
The story is cringe inducing, the characters are bland and annoying and the story is about as subtle in its delivery as getting hit by a train.
That's to say nothing if having lost the nuance of the original battle system in order to "press right/left trigger to do different attacks, dedicated launcher button"
Well it can't be argued that DmC was a sales Failure in what it set out to do, but I'd argue that this was NT and Capcom's fault for actively provoking the DMC fanbases Ire when they should have been trying to win people over.
I do agree I find it sad when sales is ever used to dismiss a game.
4 has the best gameplay of the series so its hard to knock....everything else about it suffered though, and a lot of it I think as centered around them trying to eork Dante into being a playable character
Makoto Yuki
Banned
If you wan't to say the recycling of levels and bosses is bad, yeah nobody is gonna disagree. I mean there was some back tracking in the original DMC, not as bad as it is in DMC4, but it's there.
Combat wise, DMC4 continues to amaze.
I'm talking about DMC 1 not 3 or 4.
Minty_Fishbowl
Member
While I don't believe it was a financial failure, DmC fell way below Ninja Theory's sales goals. They originally aimed for 5 million, as far as I remember. The Definitive Edition had a disastrous launch in the UK as well.
Misread, sorry about that.
Not really. At the end of the day, it's DmC. Adding a optional lock-on, hardcore mode tweaks, better performance, and other modes doesn't change that. It's still the same game they made, but better.
If they felt that they screwed up that badly, as you described, then they would've just left it as is and abandoned the game in last-gen.
About the "half a game" argument, while I do think it was quite shitty and I really wish we got new levels, bosses and enemies for Dante, it's not nearly as relevant as a lot of people make it seem when comparing games. It's a very big flaw, I'm not downplaying it, but we're talking about genres defined by replay.
So in 20 playthroughs of each game, I see each level of DMC4 twice as many times I see each level of DmC. Wow, that changes everything.
I believe the biggest issue with the backtracking levels thing are having less bosses than we would otherwise, but if we're comparing it to DmC, each has 7 boss fights (DmC has 8 if you include the DLC, which was really really good, DmC Vergil is better than DMC3 Vergil gameplaywise IMO), of those 7, only one was garbage in DMC4, in DmC, aside from that one garbage fight, no boss is as good as any of the other 6 in DMC4. That plays a larger role in which one is my favorite than the amount of individual levels.
I know, not everyone plays the games for the same reasons, and some people follow the series from the beginning and don't even care about playing it through more than once, and I can respect that, but it seems like quite a few people just can't begin to comprehend how someone would prefer the "half game" over the "complete game", because "you play through the same thing twice".
Well, it's DMC, I play through the same thing a million times.
But you see, "for the franchise", you'd never get me against you saying that.
Color coding is bullshit, and I don't think DmC matches the depth of DMC4 at all, doesn't come close. I'm not even sure a DMC5 by Capcom would match DMC4, Uncle Dante is just too ridiculous, but none of that has anything to do with DmC being on the same level as NT's other games.
You can't let DmC's issues get in the way of things that are objective. DmC is far beyond what they achieved with Heavenly Sword and Enslaved, when it comes to combat depth, it really isn't up to discussion.
So in 20 playthroughs of each game, I see each level of DMC4 twice as many times I see each level of DmC. Wow, that changes everything.
I believe the biggest issue with the backtracking levels thing are having less bosses than we would otherwise, but if we're comparing it to DmC, each has 7 boss fights (DmC has 8 if you include the DLC, which was really really good, DmC Vergil is better than DMC3 Vergil gameplaywise IMO), of those 7, only one was garbage in DMC4, in DmC, aside from that one garbage fight, no boss is as good as any of the other 6 in DMC4. That plays a larger role in which one is my favorite than the amount of individual levels.
I know, not everyone plays the games for the same reasons, and some people follow the series from the beginning and don't even care about playing it through more than once, and I can respect that, but it seems like quite a few people just can't begin to comprehend how someone would prefer the "half game" over the "complete game", because "you play through the same thing twice".
Well, it's DMC, I play through the same thing a million times.
But you see, "for the franchise", you'd never get me against you saying that.
Color coding is bullshit, and I don't think DmC matches the depth of DMC4 at all, doesn't come close. I'm not even sure a DMC5 by Capcom would match DMC4, Uncle Dante is just too ridiculous, but none of that has anything to do with DmC being on the same level as NT's other games.
You can't let DmC's issues get in the way of things that are objective. DmC is far beyond what they achieved with Heavenly Sword and Enslaved, when it comes to combat depth, it really isn't up to discussion.
TheSpoiler
Member
In regards to the DMC games, it's mainly about combat. Everything else is clearly secondary fluff that's there to exist. Graphics, story, puzzles, etc, all of that is not what's front and center.
Because of this, 4 is the best game out of the series, including DmC. It's the undisputed champ of the action game genre (though some may pull Bayo into this, and that puts me on the fence...).
I feel like DmC wasn't trying to do what DMC and co. aimed for - an over the top action game with leagues worth of depth and enjoyability. DmC felt like a jack of all trades, master of none if we look at it from a whole game perspective, and as a combat-styled game, even the DE edition is far below 3 and 4.
It's okay for it to be so. You can still draw depth from that game, you can still create sick combos, but it's a package deal. Since it was aiming for that, it's kind of middling, not bad, but not good either.
DMC4 and 3 were purely about the combat, and arguably 1 as well in some aspects. It's difficult to even put them in the same category since the arguments will be either "DmCs depth vs the other game" (which clearly has a winner) and "DmC as a package versus the games that didn't even attempt to go that route" (which, once again, has a clear winner).
They are pretty separate things, and this topic is only going to go in those directions in regards to the discussion at hand. Personally, I'm of the former camp, but so long as both games can exist in tandem, why not have a DmC2 and a DMC5 at the same time?
Because of this, 4 is the best game out of the series, including DmC. It's the undisputed champ of the action game genre (though some may pull Bayo into this, and that puts me on the fence...).
I feel like DmC wasn't trying to do what DMC and co. aimed for - an over the top action game with leagues worth of depth and enjoyability. DmC felt like a jack of all trades, master of none if we look at it from a whole game perspective, and as a combat-styled game, even the DE edition is far below 3 and 4.
It's okay for it to be so. You can still draw depth from that game, you can still create sick combos, but it's a package deal. Since it was aiming for that, it's kind of middling, not bad, but not good either.
DMC4 and 3 were purely about the combat, and arguably 1 as well in some aspects. It's difficult to even put them in the same category since the arguments will be either "DmCs depth vs the other game" (which clearly has a winner) and "DmC as a package versus the games that didn't even attempt to go that route" (which, once again, has a clear winner).
They are pretty separate things, and this topic is only going to go in those directions in regards to the discussion at hand. Personally, I'm of the former camp, but so long as both games can exist in tandem, why not have a DmC2 and a DMC5 at the same time?
Nah, that was Capcom's original intent with the 5 million talk. I'm just gonna assume that the big wigs were a little...high at that time.
Agreed. The game was still a solid seller, and one of the top rated game of the franchise. And despite what many want to believe, it's not the worst selling game of the franchise. That goes to DMC3.
I played the game two month ago... And you're wrong, sorry.
DMC4 still gets played at a high level after 7 years and will get played for 5 more years after the SE is released.
People who played DMC4 once and never really bothered with the mechanics probably didn't think much of it but those who strived to get better at the game realized that this game's combat engine is a masterwork.
People will realize this again if they bother with DMC4SE and play as Vergil.
That said DmC DE is a very good action game and should be played by all fans of the genre.
People who played DMC4 once and never really bothered with the mechanics probably didn't think much of it but those who strived to get better at the game realized that this game's combat engine is a masterwork.
People will realize this again if they bother with DMC4SE and play as Vergil.
That said DmC DE is a very good action game and should be played by all fans of the genre.
Yes, they later set their sights on 2 million for the final release. Of course, once it was quite clear that they weren't going to get that, they lowered their expectations once more.
Stallion Dan
Member
As a fan of the DMC series, I liked DmC more than any other game. Would like to see DmC2 rather than DMC5.
We can't be sure of that at this time. Depending on how Capcom looks at it, we will need to see how DE performs and stack DE and DmC along with 3/SE.
Same could be argued with 4 as well. I still think we would have seen DmC perform better then it had, if Capcom and NT didn't try to make people angry and write it off.
BeautifulMemory
Member
Thread is moving way too fast. All I can say is given what's been accomplished DmC added far new designs into the franchise than DMC4 ever did. It's actually something different, fresh, creative, and unique. But DmC definitely got some annoying characters and I really didn't like the fact that a of Nero's animation was reused.
If there's a DMC5 I want to see a complete package rather than just a combo simulator.
If there's a DMC5 I want to see a complete package rather than just a combo simulator.
Minty_Fishbowl
Member
DmC's sales were better than Vanilla DMC3, but DMC3SE pulled in a shit ton, a lot more than Definitive Edition seems to be doing right now. I believe DMCHD did a lot as well, though I can't find much on that.
I think most of the comments around DmC's sales don't result from the sales number itself, but from Capcom and NT constantly lowering sales goals in what looked like damage control.
I'm not using sales to dismiss the game. The gameplay and developer are what I use to do that.
Supermanisdead
Member
I haven't played the definitive edition, but the original DmC was a completely mediocre experience with a slightly above-average combat system that was marred by dumb decisions like colour coded enemies and 30fps. Not to mention those stupid platformer/speedrun type levels that just consist of alternating between your two grapples so you can slowly glide through the level. I'm not playing an action game for slow, movement based gameplay.
I know the remake fixes a lot of issues and makes the game a lot faster, but I don't really care. I'd rather wait a couple months for an even greater version of an already amazing game in DMC4: Special Edition. I know it DMC4 has it's own problems, but I'm playing these games for the complexity of the combat system, not for any other reason.
I know the remake fixes a lot of issues and makes the game a lot faster, but I don't really care. I'd rather wait a couple months for an even greater version of an already amazing game in DMC4: Special Edition. I know it DMC4 has it's own problems, but I'm playing these games for the complexity of the combat system, not for any other reason.
Mechanics such as Exceed and real-time style switching alone were far more valuable additions than anything DmC had to offer. Nothing about DmC was unique (different, yes, creative, not in any way positive or substantive).
There are only two topics regarding videogames that make me want to go absolutely fucking ballistic: people that prefer Halo Reach and/or 4 to Halo 3 and people that think DmC should be the future of the Devil May Cry series. It's irrational and I won't indulge myself, but let me say this: Halo may be dead, but fortunately DMC is, by the looks of things, going forward as DMC5 and not as DmC2, and good fucking riddance.
As someone who has never played any of the games in the series, until I just beat DmC: Definitive Edition last week... I gotta say, I thought it was a helluva lot of fun. A satisfactory story, a good lead character, and excellent combat (I played with Turbo Mode enabled).
I don't understand the hate this game gets, specifically from fans of the OG series. People do understand DmC is a reboot, right? It is a re-imagination, set in an alternative reality. The game isn't suppose to be quite like the others...
I don't understand the hate this game gets, specifically from fans of the OG series. People do understand DmC is a reboot, right? It is a re-imagination, set in an alternative reality. The game isn't suppose to be quite like the others...
Agreed.
See this is why I get iffy when people say they want change.
Yes DmC had unique stuff, but when change comes at the cost of reduced quality, at least for me it being "new" doesn't make up for it.
Though I do want 5 to be a whole new game, with a story and new locations, but then I felt 1/2 of 4 was exactly that so I don't get how DmC did this so much "more" then DMC4 did.
Environments and setting were better than any DMC game since 1.
This is so crazy. He actually highlighted far to show how much better the Ninja Theory turd is to the originals. Such a neat guy.
TheSpoiler
Member
Yeah, the series sure is dead with a Definitive Edition and a remastered game with new content with a ton of effort for those three new characters, with constant previews from Capcom.
Sorry buddy, if anything, you'll be seeing more DMC in the future, whether you like it or not.
Astral Dog
Member
edit: nah the post was too mean
DMC 4 has its flaws and all, but while 3 new characters does not seem like much, they are going to provide many hours of enjoyable gameplay for hardcore players. especially if they are as good as Vergil and the price is good. the SE is not going to do anything but built the hype for a sequel .
Minty_Fishbowl
Member
I'll forgive most things here, but DmC's voice acting is horrid. All the English VA's sound like they had a lobotomy before recording, and the shit dialogue doesn't help
BIGGER
DICK
Geraldo_Ray
Member
I really didn't care about DmC: Devil May Cry overall. Visually it looked great, the platforming worked (wasn't good, but it worked), and when not fighting the bosses it was fun to play through, but as far as everything else goes it felt average. The soundtrack itself felt like nails on a chalkboard half the time with a few good tracks here and there. The boss fights didn't really stand out from the regular enemy encounters (too easy and didn't really have much depth to them). The story didn't really feel all that different from the previous games (aka not good and over the top), so there's that.
Did I hate the game? Hell no. I'm honestly with Jim Sterling here in that it didn't really have that much of an impact on the series in the end (at least from my perspective). I'm interested in trying out definitive edition to see the major changes, but no plans for bringing it to PC users. =/
Interested in how DMC4:SE is going to turn out. Granted it had major issues with backtracking and repeating enemies and boss fights, but as far as gameplay goes I enjoyed it a lot.
Did I hate the game? Hell no. I'm honestly with Jim Sterling here in that it didn't really have that much of an impact on the series in the end (at least from my perspective). I'm interested in trying out definitive edition to see the major changes, but no plans for bringing it to PC users. =/
Interested in how DMC4:SE is going to turn out. Granted it had major issues with backtracking and repeating enemies and boss fights, but as far as gameplay goes I enjoyed it a lot.
I don't get this. I won't say it's wrong, but just the Demon bits blowing up a generic city for most of the game wasn't anything special to me.
Granted I don't like just sky boxes in general so that is what alot of DmC felt like to me.
Fortuna wasn't much better mind, but the jungle/Blizzard looked great and the cathedral's in DMC4 where breath taking to me.
It feels weird being a pretty big DMC fan yet having not played DmC outside of the demo.
I remember having a little fun with the combat. Sure, the game was only 30 fps and ran like crap in general. Sure the characters, story, and art style seemed significantly inferior to the original series. But the gameplay seemed kinda solid, and gameplay is the reason I play the series at the end of the day. Then I turned up the difficulty and ran into a ton of color coded enemies. Complete turn off. And based off the impressions of the full game, things didn't get any better. I like playing these games at higher difficulties, so if that color BS just wasn't going to fly. So I skipped the game.
I've thought about getting DmC
E due to the improvments (even though the color coded junk still sounds pretty bad), but with DMC4SE coming out so soon...I kinda feel like there's little point. Vanilla 4 already has the best gameplay of any character action game out there. So 4SE will have the better gameplay by far, and 3 new characters sounds way bigger than any of DmCE's tweaks.
I still plan on trying the full game out eventually, but after I've played 4SE to death. Although by the time I do that, DMC5 will probably be on the horizon. Heh.
I remember having a little fun with the combat. Sure, the game was only 30 fps and ran like crap in general. Sure the characters, story, and art style seemed significantly inferior to the original series. But the gameplay seemed kinda solid, and gameplay is the reason I play the series at the end of the day. Then I turned up the difficulty and ran into a ton of color coded enemies. Complete turn off. And based off the impressions of the full game, things didn't get any better. I like playing these games at higher difficulties, so if that color BS just wasn't going to fly. So I skipped the game.
I've thought about getting DmC
E due to the improvments (even though the color coded junk still sounds pretty bad), but with DMC4SE coming out so soon...I kinda feel like there's little point. Vanilla 4 already has the best gameplay of any character action game out there. So 4SE will have the better gameplay by far, and 3 new characters sounds way bigger than any of DmCE's tweaks.I still plan on trying the full game out eventually, but after I've played 4SE to death. Although by the time I do that, DMC5 will probably be on the horizon. Heh.
I think you misunderstood my post
Lots of people who liked DmC praised these things. Neither did anything for me. Even in respect to art direction, I'd still put DMC4 over DmC (though indeed, DMC1 trumps everything else in that regard).