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LTTP: Game of Thrones Season 3 Episode 9.
- Thread starter dankir
- Start date
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Back-In-Black
Banned
I cheered, could never stand Robb Stark and despised Catelyn.
Ocarina_117
Banned
Man I couldn't revise for my exams the following day that episode aired.
Season 4 is my personal favourite season.
Show definitely drops off after season 4 though. 6 is a MASSIVE improvement on whatever the fuck season 5 was but doesn't come close to the heights of the first 4 seasons.
It's become a popcorn TV show for me now, fantastic acting, set design and production values. The writing hurts my bones.
It hurts more knowing that the conclusion to the show is the only conclusion to the series we're likely to get.
Season 4 is my personal favourite season.
Show definitely drops off after season 4 though. 6 is a MASSIVE improvement on whatever the fuck season 5 was but doesn't come close to the heights of the first 4 seasons.
It's become a popcorn TV show for me now, fantastic acting, set design and production values. The writing hurts my bones.
It hurts more knowing that the conclusion to the show is the only conclusion to the series we're likely to get.
The Internet's reaction to the RW was what forced me to pull the trigger on reading the books/watching the show. Haven't regretted it, though I do now spend a disproportionate amount of time lamenting the show's downfall since.
IMO we'll look back at the RW and see it as the peak of the show. S4 isn't bad and S5/6 have their moments, but RW was an event like no other.
I liked
, but mostly because of
. Agreed on the rest, particularly
He's probably the character that had the most wasted potential unfortunately.
IMO we'll look back at the RW and see it as the peak of the show. S4 isn't bad and S5/6 have their moments, but RW was an event like no other.
I liked
the Hound's return
Ian McShane selling the hell out of the 40 minutes of screentime he got
Euron.
WhereAreMahDragonz
Banned
Robb had it coming bruh
Huevos de Oro
Member
Don't start no shit, there will be no shit. Which in Westeros roughly translates to
don't break no oaths, you won't end up with yo direwolf head attached to yo shoulders
This may be true but, after season 5 it didn't take much to improve lol.
Still sucks they have caught and surpassed the books..
I'm also in the boat that found this to be really predictable.
For the people who didn't see it coming, were you expecting like, a happy wedding where everything goes great?
It's seasons 3 episode 9.
Ned losing his head was something I didn't see coming, but after that I had learned what the show was about and wasn't surprised at all by the Red Wedding.
echoshifting
Banned
I can't believe there isn't a band called Red Wedding yet
I feel like I've been waiting for that to happen since Storm of Swords first came out
I feel like I've been waiting for that to happen since Storm of Swords first came out
excelsiorlef
Member
Everyone kept building up the Red Wedding but when I finally saw it all I could do was sort of laugh at how fucking idiotic Robb Stark and his family were...
Like what you thought you could just make a huge promise, renege on it and everyone was going to love you for it... these are lands in constant war, you can't renege on your word, your word is a peace treat yand the Freys can't just sit back and take it or they'll have no leverage the next time a group wants to use their land...also the Freys were asshole to begin with why would you trust them to be cool with you screwing them over...
That girl turned out to be beautiful was great too because you know Robb only reneged and allowed himself to even have a relationship with Talisa because he thought he was going to have to marry an ugly woman and he didn't want to.
Fuck Robb Stark for being a total dipshit moron, the Red Wedding is hubris come home to roost
Like what you thought you could just make a huge promise, renege on it and everyone was going to love you for it... these are lands in constant war, you can't renege on your word, your word is a peace treat yand the Freys can't just sit back and take it or they'll have no leverage the next time a group wants to use their land...also the Freys were asshole to begin with why would you trust them to be cool with you screwing them over...
That girl turned out to be beautiful was great too because you know Robb only reneged and allowed himself to even have a relationship with Talisa because he thought he was going to have to marry an ugly woman and he didn't want to.
Fuck Robb Stark for being a total dipshit moron, the Red Wedding is hubris come home to roost
Megalosaro
Banned
I hate the Lannisters, I hate the Boltons, I hate everything.
Fuck
Fuck the Starks. They were the worst part of the show. Lannisters own them.
lastplayed
Member
‎Season 4, Episode 8
Still the worst one for me. I refuse to rewatch it.
Still the worst one for me. I refuse to rewatch it.
iRAWRasaurus
Banned
The north remembers.
echoshifting
Banned
I can't say what it was like to watch it without knowing what was going to happen, but it shook the shit out of me when I read it, not having any idea what was coming, before "Red Wedding" was even in the popular lexicon. I had to read it twice and then I had to walk away from the book for the rest of the day.
And the reason it was so effective was because you realized, GRRM managed to hit you in the same soft spot that Ned used to occupy. We have a natural tendency to seek out and root for the good guys, you know? We readily overlook any potentially lethal mistake as "fridge logic," but it was easy to look back from there and realize, Robb never had a chance. It managed to subvert expectations in this perfectly logical way that made all of the sense while still preserving the shock of it.
Unforgettable moment of fiction for me.
I hate the Lannisters, I hate the Boltons, I hate everything.
Fuck
You've made it to the other side, friend.
Welcome. You'll never be the same.
Why do you consider
the Hound's return
I've enjoyed all of his scenes, and the actor is really good.
He was offering both Edmure AND Arya though. Its a downgrade from Robb but its not like they were getting nothing.
Prettyg sure its Freys revenge for years of bad blood that made him do it.
Ocarina_117
Banned
I believe Robb Stark's follies are much better presented in the books, especially as he's only in his mid-teens.
He goes his whole life looking up to his father, however despite the great man Nedd was his alleged fathering of Jon Snow was always a slight used against him. A dagger in the side of an otherwise honourable man.
Robb is greatly grieved to hear of his younger brothers (Brann and Rickon's) deaths whilst recovering from an injury. In a moment of weakness he sleeps with Jeyne Westerling who comforts him. He marries her the next day to protect her honour.
Another layer is added to this when you consider the Westerlings are related to the Lannisters. The books have a wonderful depth to them.
He goes his whole life looking up to his father, however despite the great man Nedd was his alleged fathering of Jon Snow was always a slight used against him. A dagger in the side of an otherwise honourable man.
Robb is greatly grieved to hear of his younger brothers (Brann and Rickon's) deaths whilst recovering from an injury. In a moment of weakness he sleeps with Jeyne Westerling who comforts him. He marries her the next day to protect her honour.
Another layer is added to this when you consider the Westerlings are related to the Lannisters. The books have a wonderful depth to them.
excelsiorlef
Member
I never liked any of the Starks other than Arya and maybe eventually Sansa... Ned, Cat and Robb were all varying levels of naive and frequently idiotic...
I mean Robb absolutely had a chance, he could have honoured his deal. That's on him.
But I get what you mean I think knowing what was coming made it easier to see early on how it was going to get there.
excelsiorlef
Member
A deal is a deal and yes the Freys are assholes... that's why you should honour the deal or get the fuck out, don't sit down and accept their freaking hospitality... run for the hills or better yet don't renege because you didn't want a not hot wife.
echoshifting
Banned
Yeah, I mean to say, he had no chance after he broke his word. Like Karstark said, that was when he lost the war. No take backs.
Ocarina_117
Banned
The actor is fantastic, as was
Ian McShane.
However it was all a bit stupid. You have
Septon Maribald preach peaceful ways for half an episode to the hound, expecting some character growth. A few seens later he's taking an axe to a character's balls. I always feared for the inclusion of Sept Meribald in the show because of the writer's inability to handle the more poignant themes of the books - in particular the impact of 'the game of thrones' on the small folk. At it's heard A song of fire and ice is certainly an anti-war story, the show is anything but. It was in-keeping with the show and the writer's habits that the sept was unceremoniously hung before the end of his only episode.
I skipped a few episodes of season 3 because they were awful. But Robb was supposed to be sacrificing his own honor for hers. He was like Ned and probably didn't fancy making bastards like Jon.
Also the Red Wedding is considered the biggest abominable act against the gods possible and everything Westeros stands for. No one would expect Walder to go so low.
excelsiorlef
Member
An extremely stupid man
They should have.
And Robb made the deal long before he met Talisa... he had no obligation to have sex with her...ever. So again that;s on him, the sex itself I'd say even was dishonourable as he made a deal in a world where deals are essentially are currency.
SerAardvark
Member
Maybe the point is that
he can't escape the violence
the same might happen (though for different reasons, of course). Or does CleganeBowl not count?
The show has shown that, not that "war sucks for the common people" is really that poignant or deep a theme.
In fact, GRRM has specifically said the story shows both the good and bad for both high lords and the common folk and is not an anti-war story (as he himself says there are times war is necessary). It's a good deal more nuanced than that.
Ocarina_117
Banned
It's an awkward translation from book to show due to Robb's increased age.
Yes it's a very stupid thing for a man to break his vow. In the books Rob is around 14 years old and seeking to protect the honour of a woman due to a moment of weakness. As with all things thrones it's better presented in the book.
Yes it's a very stupid thing for a man to break his vow. In the books Rob is around 14 years old and seeking to protect the honour of a woman due to a moment of weakness. As with all things thrones it's better presented in the book.
I finally caught up to this amazing show late last year and a few weeks ago for Season 6.
I some how was able to stay spoiler free all these years, while still being interested in watching the show. (never read the books)
so THAT being said... is there a link to GAF's Live thread when this episode first aired?
Would have loved to see GAF's reaction when yall first found out.
I some how was able to stay spoiler free all these years, while still being interested in watching the show. (never read the books)
so THAT being said... is there a link to GAF's Live thread when this episode first aired?
Would have loved to see GAF's reaction when yall first found out.
Brother Ray is based on Meribald, but he isn't Meribald.
The entire point of that episode wasn't to 'change' the Hound, but to give him purpose.
Maybe GRRM wants a crippled and peaceful Sandor, but I think most of us are perfectly fine with him still cracking heads and dropping C-bombs on the show.
Maybe GRRM wants a crippled and peaceful Sandor, but I think most of us are perfectly fine with him still cracking heads and dropping C-bombs on the show.
excelsiorlef
Member
Yeah that would definitely have been a better story... that said I enjoy the Starks getting screwed over for being dumb repeatedly motif lol
echoshifting
Banned
Yeah but it's still his fault. He's a king. The importance and weight of this promise is pressed upon him when he makes it. And it's so contrary to the Stark way. Everything is on the line with this, countless lives and independence from tyranny, and he tosses it in the garbage.
Ned dies in the South for being too much of a Stark; Robb dies in the North for not being enough of one.
Dreadnought
Member
Who is going to look up every single episode's writer so we can understand your vague lame-ass joke?
Ocarina_117
Banned
It could be argued that Robb trying to be a better man than his father caused the red wedding.
As i mentioned in a post above, Robb would have gone his whole life seeing that his honourable and respected farther was not perfect. His fathering of Jon Snow broke the perfect image of the honourable Ned Stark.
In the books, Robb sleeps with Jeyne as he recovers from a wound and after hearing of his younger brothers supposed deaths. It was a moment of weakness. However to retain Jeyne's honour he marries her the next day. It's a very Stark thing to do.
One of the great sins of the tv show.
In the books "The North Remembers" actually becomes a very important plot point, with several Northern Houses secretly backing The Starks and plotting the downfall of the Freys and Boltons.
One of the highlights is Wyman Manderly killing two Frey boys and baking them in a pie who he then serves to the Boltons as a "gift". It's the first real sign that slowly, but certainly retribution is coming. Of course the show decided to delete this entire plot and give the "Frey pie" to Arya even though it makes no sense that she would do something like that. Let alone why she would take the time to do it considering she's murdering Walder directly after that anyway.
One of the highlights is Wyman Manderly killing two Frey boys and baking them in a pie who he then serves to the Boltons as a "gift". It's the first real sign that slowly, but certainly retribution is coming. Of course the show decided to delete this entire plot and give the "Frey pie" to Arya even though it makes no sense that she would do something like that. Let alone why she would take the time to do it considering she's murdering Walder directly after that anyway.
Ocarina_117
Banned
I LOVED the Frey Pie revelation in the books. It's not outright stated but wonderfully weaved and hinted at. I was floored when Wyman ate some of the pie himself.
echoshifting
Banned
I can see why he would think he's doing the honorable "Stark" thing by marrying Jeyne...when in fact I bet Ned would have just lived with the guilt and shame. The price of her honor (and his) was too high. I realize this supports your point, though.
And I did forget that happened right after he heard Theon had killed his brothers. So it makes sense. I have always felt it made sense, and there is a stronger sense of tragedy in the book...I just don't think there is any excusing it in any case.
In the book Robb is wounded, being treated by 'Talisa' when he gets the news his best friend burned down Winterfell, murdered his two kid brothers, and Iron Islands rebelling. So yeah, the 16 year old guy is then 'comforted' by a young noble woman and he takes the fall for it.
Not sure how its presented in the show.
Rob kinda has a distorted image of his father, tho. Whilst everyone dogpiles on him for Talisa/Jeyne (which I always gladly partake in) the moment that cemented to me that he must die was the beheading of the Karstarks.
This is a magical universe. In a universe where kinslaying leads to tragedy, this is quite absolutely the dumbest move to make.
Robb kept saying how Ned would've done the same thing but I doubt Ned, for all his idiocy, would've gone that far. He at least would've made sure to quell the Karstarks anger after losing one of their own.
Napalm_Frank
Member
Robb fucked up. Walder Frey and Roose Bolton did nothing wrong.
echoshifting
Banned
The Freys broke guest right so yeah they fucked up bad too
Roose is in the clear though
Napalm_Frank
Member
I'll allow it since first they get dragged into other peoples wars and then are basically shit on by Robb. IIRC a big chunk of Stark forces were Frey to begin with so his house is one of the few doing heavy lifting. After the Karstarks leave Robb has the balls to ask for Frey help again for what now is clearly a losing war.
echoshifting
Banned
But that was not the only way to take out Robb Stark, not when he was so close to him. Frey breaks guest right because he's a greedy bastard...minimum loss, maximum gain.
In the North, breaking guest right is equivalent to kinslaying, which is a portent of disaster. It's sacred, not merely a tradition. By breaking guest right, Walder establishes
a culture of permanent resentment and rebellion in the North.
As someone else mentioned, The Hound came to a realization that he couldn't escape violence. Violence follows him everywhere he goes.
so THAT being said... is there a link to GAF's Live thread when this episode first aired?
Would have loved to see GAF's reaction when yall first found out.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=60864873#post60864873
Braag
Member
I honestly don't think this would have mattered in the long run.
The Freys are not loyal or honorable, just like the Boltons. If the Lannisters made them a good offer they would have betrayed the Starks despite Robb honoring his word.
excelsiorlef
Member
Well I mean neither are the Starks and the reneged on their deal first.
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