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LTTP: Man of Steel

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Discussions on the movie become tedious (when I get involved) when people are actively TRYING to change everyone's mind about how they SHOULD feel. That's just guaranteed wheel spinning.

Not every conversation about media needs to be a battle where the opposing sides are trying to force their viewpoint on the others. It's not really a competition.

I get why almost EVERYONE HERE who has a negative opinion on Man of Steel has their opinion. It's not like the movie doesn't supply enough reasons to cause people to dislike it. It does.

But I absolutely wouldn't try to tell someone they're WRONG for feeling like the movie disappointed them.

I WILL tell them they're wrong if they say "Superman murdered a bunch of people indiscriminately" because that didn't actually happen. But there's a lot of complaints about the film that are absolutely backed up by the text, by the visuals, and at that point, it's just a matter of allowing people their opinions as to how that stuff played.

Oh I agree with you 100% He can list his reasons until his fingers fall off and it won't change my mind. I enjoyed MoS in the same vein as a movie like Independence Day. I went into it with the attitude of it being a summer blockbuster pop corn type movie and feel I got what I paid for.

I'm not claiming it to be Citizen Kane. I don't want it to be.
 
It would be more productive to list the reasons you don't like it. I thought it was a decent movie. The burden falls on you to make me think otherwise.

I thought it was a decent enough pop corn flick.

I'm typing up my issues with it now, but I really need to get this off my chest:

ozs13lxf4e.gif


(thanks, Fool)

Generally, yes, I would agree this it is a decent enough popcorn flick. 6/10, above average but just barely. It is not incompetent all of the time.
 
Why is Clark's earth dad pretty much the dumbest person ever

Why is there product placement everywhere

Why is Superman handsome as hell

Why as a child did he put on a red cap and do the Superman pose as if Superman is an iconic figure in American culture in the world of Man of Steel
 
Terrible. It's a good thing Superman just happened to stumble on to that ship or he would have spent his whole life as a drifter. And don't you need to go to college or something to work for a major publication?
 
Really enjoyed it. Saw it once in IMAX and two other times in the theater, then probably five or six times on blu-ray. Damn good superhero film and don't know why it gets so much hate. Then again, I'm of the opinion Spider-Man 2 is one of the most overrated films ever made.
 
How is their destroying an entire city during their dude fight a minor problem? I probably could have agreed with the movie but that's fucking ridiculous. "Oh man, I just destroyed this entire city ... hey Lois."
 
whatever. the lady was right

It's not whether she was right or wrong. It's that she stepped into the lobby with her thumb down and you were like "A FOUL OMEN. WHAT HORRORS AWAIT ME IN THIS MOVIE CAVE?"

It's just a funny visual, to me. Like, was she even talking to anyone, or did she just burst out the theater doors with a face like Grumpy Cat jabbing her thumb downwards like she was hitchhiking to hell?

How is their destroying an entire city during their dude fight a minor problem? I probably could have agreed with the movie but that's fucking ridiculous. "Oh man, I just destroyed this entire city ... hey Lois."

He didn't destroy the city. Zod destroyed about a square mile of it. he STOPPED the city (and the world) from being destroyed.

Through the course of his fight there were like 6 or 7 buildings that got damaged.

The narrative that Superman is a careless murderer is lazy and not supported by the film itself, but it sounds snappy and is fun to repeat so there you go :)
 
Terrible. It's a good thing Superman just happened to stumble on to that ship or he would have spent his whole life as a drifter. And don't you need to go to college or something to work for a major publication?


he's freelance bro


It's not whether she was right or wrong. It's that she stepped into the lobby with her thumb down and you were like "A FOUL OMEN. WHAT HORRORS AWAIT ME IN THIS MOVIE CAVE?"

It's just a funny visual, to me. Like, was she even talking to anyone, or did she just burst out the theater doors with a face like Grumpy Cat jabbing her thumb downwards like she was hitchhiking to hell?

it was actually a pretty funny moment. it was at an imax and it was a long hallway, so pretty much everyone was facing the door. she was the first person out and gave it a thumbs down. i think i felt a few peoples heart break
 
There are few super hero movies let alone any movie that can illicit such emotion from me as this one did. I remember grabbing my GF hand in the theater, as if I knew I was watching something special.

That night I laid in bed and really contemplated my life up until that point. Was I a good man. Was I a good son , BF, etc..........

Its hard for me to talk about as I get a lump in my throat just thinking about it. 30 seconds in and I was already tearing up at the birth scene. I knew I was in for a ride. Maybe its because this character was such a big part of my childhood, I don't know.

Snyder did this character justice. I felt every primal scream he belted out in the movie. I felt his pain as if it were my own. We went on a 2 hour 20 min journey together that I will carry with me for the rest of my life.
 
One of my favorite superhero films ever. Cavill makes a perfect Clark and Superman. Amazing ost to boot.

Why is MoS the most talked about comic book movies on GAF? >_>

Because it just recently came out on HBO GO and like a people like myself (along with a ton of others apparently) decided to skip it in the Theaters because of the hate train that was being run on it. Then we watched it, and loved it. Then we all made a thread about it in the last month.

lol
 
I was entertained by the movie, but yeah, the amount of destruction Metropolis suffers makes it look like a city Godzilla trampled through unopposed. Not a city defended by Superman. They really do need to find a different way to justify/disguise Clark Kent.
 
There are few super hero movies let alone any movie that can illicit such emotion from me as this one did. I remember grabbing my GF hand in the theater, as if I knew I was watching something special.

That night I laid in bed and really contemplated my life up until that point. Was I a good man. Was i a good son , BF, etc..........

Its hard for me to talk about as I get a lump in my throat just thinking about it. 30 second sin and I was already tearing up at the birth scene. I knew I was in for a ride. Maybe its because this character was such a big part of my childhood, I don't know.

Snyder did this character justice. I felt every primal scream he laid out in the move. I felt his pain as if it were my own. We went on a 2 hour 20 min journey together that I will carry with me for the rest of my life.

lol. Still love you.
 
I'm typing up my issues with it now, but I really need to get this off my chest:

http://abload.de/img/ozs13lxf4e.gif[IMG]

(thanks, Fool)[/QUOTE]

[quote="OrangeJulius, post: 110271307"]How could you not laugh your butt off at that scene? And is calling me a fool really needed? Or was that not intended for me?[/QUOTE]

He thanked me because I made that GIF.
 
I will say the script was absolute fucking shit. So many of the lines seemed like they were written because they'd sound cool in marketing. Let's throw in these snazzy, "deep" one liners so we can plug them into trailers and really make it sound like we have a deep story. And then there's the infamous, "There's only one way this ends, Kal..." Sweet Jesus, I still twitch every time I hear that.
 
Far and away the most disappointing movie I've ever seen in theaters. I was quite literally sick to my stomach the entire last third of the movie. There's not a single character arc in the entire movie. Pa Kent has been completely butchered, with his death being the stupidest scene I can ever remember appearing in a mainstream film. There are logic holes all over the place. The beginning of the movie (along with the trailers and commercials) promised a "how would humanity react to an alien" angle that it then completely drops when Zod shows up. The movie had flashbacks for utterly no reason (they could have easily been shown in sequence at the beginning without losing anything). Some one is bound to come in and complain about the destruction at the end, but that is far down the list of problems in this film. For a good (but very long) critical analysis of the film, see this excellent piece.
 
Awful movie.

Action scenes were kinda cool, I guess. Just wish I cared about the characters and Superman didn't level a good part of the city.
 
I like it for the spectacle but I was never really engaged. The last action scene didn't faze me at all because I couldn't give a shit about wooden supes.
 
The film was pretty bad in the sense that I did'nt give a shit about any of the characters whatsoever.The tornado scene is absoloutly laughable. The complaints about the destruction in the film are completely legitimate, superman is turned into a uncaring prat. I liked General Zod though. I could forgive the film some flaws if there was any soul in the film but its just so sterile.
 
He didn't destroy the city. Zod destroyed about a square mile of it. he STOPPED the city (and the world) from being destroyed.

Through the course of his fight there were like 6 or 7 buildings that got damaged.

The narrative that Superman is a careless murderer is lazy and not supported by the film itself, but it sounds snappy and is fun to repeat so there you go :)

Meh that's cool, I accept that Superman did what he had to do, I just feel like the entire fight and the scope and destruction of it seemed out of place. Not saying it's Superman's fault, it just didn't seem to fit.

Otherwise I would agree with you, if Zod is wanting to fuck shit up then Superman has to stop him, and some buildings might get hurt.
 
Action scenes were kinda cool, I guess. Just wish I cared about the characters and Superman didn't level a good part of the city.

He didn't. Zod did.

You guys know they don't all look the same, right? Kryptonians?

One has a shitty soupcatcher glued to his chin. Wears all black. Hangs out in a ship. Thinks the idea of training on a farm is bullshit.

The other has a big red cape. S on his chest. Stands for hope, he says, although it really does look like an S.
 
Far and away the most disappointing movie I've ever seen in theaters. I was quite literally sick to my stomach the entire last third of the movie. .

See, this is the kind of hyperbole I'm talking about in regards to MoS.

You were in your words "quite literally sick to your stomach"?

Over a movie? c'mon man!

The most disappointing movie you've ever seen in theaters? You must not have seen many movies in theaters or are very, very young. I saw The Happening in theaters man. Payed full price and stayed to the end credits. Now that is disappointing.
 
He didn't. Zod did.

You guys know they don't all look the same, right? Kryptonians?

One has a shitty soupcatcher glued to his chin. Wears all black. Hangs out in a ship. Thinks the idea of training on a farm is bullshit.

The other has a big red cape. S on his chest. Stands for hope, he says, although it really does look like an S.

Damnit, I can't stop laughing.
 
I still think the level of destruction was crazy too much. But yeah, Superman didn't cause all of that damage, Zod and the World Engine did. I don't get why people think Superman caused all of that.
 
See, this is the kind of hyperbole I'm talking about in regards to MoS.

You were in your words "quite literally sick to your stomach"?

Over a movie? c'mon man!

The most disappointing movie you've ever seen in theaters? You must not have seen many movies in theaters or are very, very young.

I sat through Ishtar. well at least half of it. I know sickening. This movie was not that. It was amazing.
 
I think back at the movie, and it had various parts in there that sounded really cool. But of course, as soon as I go back to watch them again, I'm reminded just how awful the movie was. The wrong people were behind this wreck.



It's a very divisive movie.

It really shouldn't be though. Far to many people knock the film for crap that doesn't even take place in the film. Complain about Superman doing things he actually doesn't do. There's a big problem with observation and comprehension when it comes to some people with this film. Also some people straight up lie when it comes to the film. That's the only two options I see that explains some of the things people say. They either are not capable of remembering what they've watched for whatever reason (which is fine but they should then admit they're mistaken when corrected) or they outright lie to bash the film and likely didn't even bother watching it.
 
Finally got around to watching Man of Steel (thanks HBO Go) and it was a lot better than I anticipated. I skipped the last Superman movies because of the negative reaction, but this one is solid.

Only two main WTF points:
1. They literally destroy the entire city
2. He becomes his reporter self at the end (as we figure he would) but it's so unbelievable that no one recognizes him after they all saw him. I know it's how Superman always was, but it's just so hard to suspend disbelief for.

Otherwise I thought Snyder did a good job. The action was good, and a movie about Superman actually held up because he wasn't invincible the whole time, you actually got the feeling he could be beat.

Interested to see what they do with Superman/Batman next.
1. I don't think you know what literally means
2. Lois obviously recognizes him and maybe Perry is in on it (that's unclear atm) but not many people otherwise had seen him up close. Except for like that iHop guy but he seems pretty cool with Clark so he'll probably keep his mouth shut.
 
It really shouldn't be though. Far to many people knock the film for crap that doesn't even take place in the film. Complain about Superman doing things he actually doesn't do. There's a big problem with observation and comprehension when it comes to some people. Also some people straight up lie when it comes to the film.

Yep, this is something BobbyRoberts has been very good about proving in past MoS threads. So many people just flat out didn't watch the movie or were not paying attention.

I know it's taboo to say this, but MoS is one of those movies where the NeoGAF hive mind comes into play. It's a movie that was largely panned so everyone feels the need to just pile on with ridiculous statements that are either hyperbolic in nature or just flat out false.
 
I still think the level of destruction was crazy too much. But yeah, Superman didn't cause all of that damage, Zod and the World Engine did. I don't get why people think Superman caused all of that.

I think when people criticize that aspect they're more just criticizing the writing (or whatever led to that city shattering brawl) than Superman himself.

I think it's false to say "people don't like Superman destroying a city." What people don't like is the story that led to that happening. Of course Superman can blow up a city if he needs to. The problem in MoS is the "needs to"
 
There are few super hero movies let alone any movie that can illicit such emotion from me as this one did. I remember grabbing my GF hand in the theater, as if I knew I was watching something special.

That night I laid in bed and really contemplated my life up until that point. Was I a good man. Was I a good son , BF, etc..........

Its hard for me to talk about as I get a lump in my throat just thinking about it. 30 seconds in and I was already tearing up at the birth scene. I knew I was in for a ride. Maybe its because this character was such a big part of my childhood, I don't know.

Snyder did this character justice. I felt every primal scream he belted out in the movie. I felt his pain as if it were my own. We went on a 2 hour 20 min journey together that I will carry with me for the rest of my life.

image.php
 
So are all just going to ignore the two real problems with the movie?

First -

Jonathan Kent's death has been codified as a heart attack - which is important because it teaches Superman that strength isn't everything, even with all his power, he can't save everyone, and that's OK. The loss is important, and the fact that it was something he was powerless to stop is even more important.

In this movie, Clark and Jonathan choose keeping his powers secret over saving a person's life. That's nothing but selfishness. I'll agree at least that it's consistent with Jonathan's character - who earlier in the same movie suggested Clark should have let a bus full of middle schoolers drown rather than risk giving away his secret. Jonathan should teach Clark to put other's needs before his own, and since Clark's means are so much greater than anyone else's, his duty to help others is also greater.

Second -

Superman kills Zod. I'm not going to spoiler it because the movie's been out forever, and it's so ridiculous I refuse to accept it as canon. Superman kills Zod. I know that they tried really hard to present it as this unwinnable situation where Superman's only option to save those people was to kill Zod - but that's what Superman does, he triumphs over impossible situations, he moves immovable objects, he always finds a way, he saves everyone, and he does not kill.

If you try I'm sure you can find exceptions in plenty of superman comics, go ahead, I'll still argue 'till the day I die (actually just until I get bored of talking about it) that it's wrong, inconsistent, and destroys everything worthwhile about the character.
 
So are all just going to ignore the two real problems with the movie?

First -

Jonathan Kent's death has been codified as a heart attack - which is important because it teaches Superman that strength isn't everything, even with all his power, he can't save everyone, and that's OK. The loss is important, and the fact that it was something he was powerless to stop is even more important.

In this movie, Clark and Jonathan choose keeping his powers secret over saving a person's life. That's nothing but selfishness. I'll agree at least that it's consistent with Jonathan's character - who earlier in the same movie suggested Clark should have let a bus full of middle schoolers drown rather than risk giving away his secret. Jonathan should teach Clark to put other's needs before his own, and since Clark's means are so much greater than anyone else's, his duty to help others is also greater.

Second -

Superman kills Zod. I'm not going to spoiler it because the movie's been out forever, and it's so ridiculous I refuse to accept it as canon. Superman kills Zod. I know that they tried really hard to present it as this unwinnable situation where Superman's only option to save those people was to kill Zod - but that's what Superman does, he triumphs over impossible situations, he moves immovable objects, he always finds a way, he saves everyone, and he does not kill.

If you try I'm sure you can find exceptions in plenty of superman comics, go ahead, I'll still argue 'till the day I die (actually just until I get bored of talking about it) that it's wrong, inconsistent, and destroys everything worthwhile about the character.

He totally killed Zod in the comics, dude. And not like early, character is too new and undefined, Batman carrying a gun sort of way. Like, he deliberately kills him with Kryptonite.
 
It would be more productive to list the reasons you don't like it. I thought it was a decent movie. The burden falls on you to make me think otherwise.

I thought it was a decent enough pop corn flick.

Sorry, had to go find another thread where I laid out a lot of my reasons.

Superman has no original motivations
Zod is more motivated than Supes. He had the closest realization of actual motivation compared to everyone else, even if he was psycho. Superman/Clark was just told what to do. He wants to save humanity, not from some deep understanding of our flaws and propensity towards self-destruction, but because he is told to.

*Clark saves bunch of kids and everyone at his school sees it*
Pa Kent: Don't do that, people will know who you are...but also, don't forget, you're meant for GREAT things. Hope all of those kids and bus driver forget that you single handedly saved them all!

*Tornado approaches Pa Kent*
Pa Kent: Don't save me, you're supposed to hide your powers, because you're meant to do great things, like save people, later in life, just like, not right now.

*Clark Kent super swims and super strength saves oil rig workers*
Clark: Stealthy as fuck, just like Pa taught me. *wraps 18 wheeler around tree*

*Clark finds Jor-El hologram thing*
Jor-El: Alright, now's the time to start saving people.
Clark: Okay!

*Clark stands beside stained glass window of Jesus*
Priest: Alright, you should save people if that's who you are.
Clark: Okay!

*Clark floats in space like Jesus next to Jor-El hologram thing*
Jor-El: Go save people.
Clark: Okay!

Jor-El creates a self-fulfilling prophecy
The "destiny" angle was horribly done. Clark is told all his life he'll do big, amazing things, but that's only because he was sent to Earth. Zod only came to Earth BECAUSE Supes was there, it wasn't some strange coincidence. That's not destiny, that's cause and effect.

The writing can be mind-numbingly bad
"Evolution always wins" is like saying "photosynthesis always wins". You're describing an organic process, not a fighter in a match. The ONLY thing that could possibly "fight" evolution is genetic manipulation, which, ironically, is exactly what Zod and his kind were up to, so it's not even accurate when hot alien says "Evolution always wins". The Kryptonians already side-stepped evolution, which also led to their downfall, so maybe that's what she was trying to say is that--aaaaaah my brain

If the movie is going to note that the Kryptonians are genetically engineered from birth to fulfill a specific role, why is Jor-El (a scientist) able to best Zod (the army's general) pretty easily in hand-to-hand combat?

Lois Lane is supposed to be bad ass. We know this because she drinks whiskey and mouths off to Detective Stabler.

I mean, really, who wrote "Zod tosses a gasoline truck at Superman and Superman jumps over it, letting it explode into the building behind him" WHO WHY
superjerk0gswo.gif


Danger what danger I'm fucking Superman
Superman is literally invincible. Any fight where he is at full-power eventually just loses its momentum because no one gets weaker or fucked up. The only time I felt that Supes might be in danger was when he was flying through the reactor thing, but otherwise? Nah, he's got this...and that's not exciting. The fights are exciting for the OOOOH DAMN SONness of them, not for your investment in the invulnerable fighters.

To be clear: I liked the movie. When I got out, one of the first things I told my buddy was that it's a shame it's rated as rotten on RT.

However, the more I thought about it, the more I think it's a solid 6/10 movie, just above average. It's frustrating: there are good elements in MoS. It was recently added to HBO Go, so I watched the first 40 mins or so last night and forgot how much I was onboard with it. The flashbacks were fairly effective and well-staged, there is the potential for the exploration of "why save humanity?"...but it's never really fulfilled.

Superman is supposed to be the savior of humanity, but he doesn't interact with humanity, as Superman, at all in this movie. He's saving the people of Earth because he is told to, not because he has a connection to them.

Snyder wouldn't know subtlety if it exploded into him. Dude has potential with a good script, but that's not what you get with Goyer.

P.S.
HoChRC1.png
 
If you try I'm sure you can find exceptions in plenty of superman comics, go ahead, I'll still argue 'till the day I die (actually just until I get bored of talking about it) that it's wrong, inconsistent, and destroys everything worthwhile about the character.

There are exceptions in the comics - and also in the movies.

Basically, there isn't a medium in which Superman has met with Zod where Superman did not then kill Zod.

In Superman II, it's pure superdickery, too. It's played as a JOKE. At least Man of Steel Superman shows some remorse for it. Superman II Superman powders Zod's hand and chucks his powerless body down a chasm while grinning.

At least when Clark snaps Darth Horseshoe's neck, he feels shitty about it.

I mean, really, who wrote "Zod tosses a gasoline truck at Superman and Superman jumps over it, letting it explode into the building behind him" WHO WHY

DAVID GOYER, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN.

edit, and yeah, add that "Evolution" speech to my hall of shame list of shit lines in this movie from upthread. That whole speech was like "She's just saying words to say them. This doesn't really MEAN anything."
 
I genuinely liked it, aside from some pretty terrible dialog, some overdone allusions, and some contrived moments, the story overall was well paced and interesting, the visuals were stunning, the characters were fun and mostly believable. And the plot was fresh despite being well known. It was weird that Superman killed somebody, but it would have been worse if they put him in that position and had a deus ex machina resolution to it (not that it visually looked like that was the only option, but that Zod and Clark both knew it was).
 
If anything I can see why Superman having to kill Zod would cause him to have the "no killing" policy. It's actually more believable, instead of just because.
 
There are few super hero movies let alone any movie that can illicit such emotion from me as this one did. I remember grabbing my GF hand in the theater, as if I knew I was watching something special.

That night I laid in bed and really contemplated my life up until that point. Was I a good man. Was I a good son , BF, etc..........

Its hard for me to talk about as I get a lump in my throat just thinking about it. 30 seconds in and I was already tearing up at the birth scene. I knew I was in for a ride. Maybe its because this character was such a big part of my childhood, I don't know.

Snyder did this character justice. I felt every primal scream he belted out in the movie. I felt his pain as if it were my own. We went on a 2 hour 20 min journey together that I will carry with me for the rest of my life.

...I legitimately can't tell if you're being serious or not.
 
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