Same here. Rockstar nailed the mechanics, and thought Euphoria complemented the gameplay well.
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LTTP: Max Payne series (I don't like 3)
- Thread starter DoktorEvil
- Start date
Same here. Rockstar nailed the mechanics, and thought Euphoria complemented the gameplay well.
Agreed
I really don't understand how anyone can say it isn't a Max Payne game. God forbid it takes place in a different significantly darker city.
Love the whole series and whilst 2 has my favourite story, 3 has my favourite character ark for Max and the best gameplay.
My favourite part of the game as well.
My favourite part of the game as well.
Net_Wrecker
Member
It's also has a different writer, and while James McCaffrey is still sounds top notch, the lines are significantly less memorable or flowery. On top of that, many of the side characters feel like they stepped right out of GTA. I won't say it's not Max Payne, but it is different, mostly for the worse in terms of writing and pacing.
Has nothing to do with the city, as MP2's tone is darker than MP3s, because of how "hollywood" MP3 is. MP1&2 are noir, while 3 is an action flick.
DoktorEvil
Banned
That's what it was! It wasn't Raymond Chandler it was Michael Bay.
Considering the past couple of set pieces are big action firefights, this feels like something Michael Bay crapped out.
Agreed. Said what I was thinking. 2 is one of the most perfect games of all time but 3 is still great.
Sevket-Erhat
Member
It is sad that I have never been able to play the second one
Discotheque
Banned
RIP Tony Scott
Sevket-Erhat
Member
I still wonder why MP2 was region locked on Xbox Live. Damn
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
I like them all. Two is by far the best overall but three's mechanics (and multiplayer) are god tier.
Amen to Screaming MEAT!
Wholeheartedly agree. I come into every Max Payne 3 thread and say it's the best TPS of last gen, right alongside Vanquish. The tightest shooting mechanics and the best bullet time feature of the entire series. If you're playing it with cover, something ain't right.
I'm still mad that Mona Sax was such an afterthought in MP3. I hope one day we get a game with just her, prior to Max Payne 1 days. I think McCaffrey did a killer job as always. While Houser certainly isn't Lake, they both had something unique to offer to the character.
And not enough good can be said about the unique multiplayer component. Some of those deathmatches were crazy.
On a sidenote, I'm replaying El Matador because it just arrived on Steam. Bullet time really still fascinates me.
NumberThree
Member
I never finished MP3, so I guess I didn't like it that much. I just didn't care about the characters and overall setting of that game. MP1 had the crazy Valkyr stuff (The flesh of fallen angels!) and MP2 had the whole Mona Sax business. Also, I think implementing a cover system encourages more passive playstyle, but of course that's just a psychological thing.
MP2 has the best reload animation of all time.
MP2 has the best reload animation of all time.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
Preach it sister! XD
Yup. Cover is just something to dive behind so you can recoup bullet time and run in screaming again.
This SO MUCH. The Mona the Assassin Mod (and the proper Mona levels) in MP2 were the best. She's one of my all time favourite characters.
Exactly. If they'd copied Sam Lake, they would've failed; he's such a unique voice in gaming. Houser's version eschews the arch gothiness of Lake's character in favour of a revisionist take. A few questionable plot choices/holes aside, it really works.
Best online multiplayer since The Specialist Mod for Half Life, IMO.
Hell yeah.
Lemonte
Member
Ah... completely missed the button to swap shoulder view. Keyboards have so many buttons
Moff
Member
I love the max payne series as a whole, and I loved max payne 3, the gunplay is one of the best ever in a videogame. I have replayed the first two max payne games countless games, but max payne 3 I have not replayed at all because of those goddamn unskippable cutscenes, a real shame.
Spring-Loaded
Member
Ah... completely missed the button to swap shoulder view. Keyboards have so many buttons
The default key bindings are awful.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
As it should be.
Toddimus Prime
Neo Member
My day is ruined every time I remember Max Payne 2 flat out refuses to run on Win 7 and my AMD gpu (at least in my case, I've tried all the 'solutions' I've seen.) Funny as hell, its the most frustrating thing I can think of.
Not got around to playing MP3. It's all installed and ready to go but stuck under some serious backlog. I think the thing is, Remedy's story telling and signature is so strong that, even if I have a blast with 3, I'll always miss the Remedy touch. Probably a strange reason for avoiding the game but there you go.
Not got around to playing MP3. It's all installed and ready to go but stuck under some serious backlog. I think the thing is, Remedy's story telling and signature is so strong that, even if I have a blast with 3, I'll always miss the Remedy touch. Probably a strange reason for avoiding the game but there you go.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
I think of it this way:
MP1 is a Spillane/Tarantino-like Noir. Hugely violent, conspiracy-laden, bordering on adolescent and a shit ton of silly fun (which is odd considering the opening).
MP2 is straight up Classic Noir via David Lynch. It's an odder, grimmer, more psychological tale that starts to take it's premise a little more seriously, but doesn't completely stop with knowing winks.
MP3 is a revisionist Neo-Noir. Ostensibly more grounded, grittier, taking it's visual cues from Man on Fire, City of God and Elite Squad. Max is less an archetype here and more of subversion.
DoktorEvil
Banned
Really? I love this simple gunplay. It fits Max perfectly: don't give me a lot of shit, just give me 2 pistols and maybe a rifle.
I wish the cover system was better implemented.
This pretty much describes the tone and shifts of the series. Which is probably why I don't feel 3 as much as 1 and 2.
I was a big fan of Raymond Chandler and his hard boiled detective noir style. A narrating, sarcastic cop who's an antihero. But 3's writing felt like giving him tons of dialogue without the real introspection I felt Max had in 1 and 2. All style, no substance. I do like that his character arc is going in a very dark manner.
I finished with the Rodrigo Branco protect mission resulting in
his death
PhantomZone
Member
The original was ahead of it's time, didn't really care much for the second or third.
Long post, obviously my opinion and all…..
Max Payne had a decent plot and setting, the gameplay jumped from average to awesome quite a lot. It has decent reply value and the entire package gets better with replays making it a classic
Max Payne 2 was just fucking amazing. The noir sensibilities come back so much stronger with a better plot and script as the game takes itself more seriously than the first. God damn Max narration made me feel like I was actually there with amazing inner dialogue:
So we get Max Payne 3. If I had got an extension of 2 with more story and gameplay I would have been a happy man as it is such a good base that I can’t think you can go wrong.
First issue: I had was euphoria is amazing in like 3 different areas but generally sucks across the board In comparison to 2. I would have loved it if enemies were only affected by eurphoria but to apply it to Max was a terrible gameplay decision. Yes it looks cool but oh shit I just bullet times into a glass window as I came at the wrong angle and hit the frame instead of going all the way through.
Second issue: cutscene - minor gameplay - cutscene - minor gameplay - cutscene hinders replay value like so much. I couldn’t replay Max Payne 3 except for like 2 sections. I just couldn’t deal with …. The third issue:
The obnoxious script where all the existential themes and decent metaphors from previous games are removed with Max struggle with this shitty inner dialogue:
My belief is if you loved 1 and 2, you can’t possibly love 3. It’s a cash in on the series name instead of trying to build a new IP. Rockstar are not the gods of cutscenes and scripting as everyone makes them out to be as Max Payne 3 shows time and time again.
What would have helped if Rockstar hadn't watched Man on Fire and thought "Hey Lets turn this into a game!" as that is what they pretty much did. Here is the trailer for that movie:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4kLizDXLY0
Max Payne had a decent plot and setting, the gameplay jumped from average to awesome quite a lot. It has decent reply value and the entire package gets better with replays making it a classic
Max Payne 2 was just fucking amazing. The noir sensibilities come back so much stronger with a better plot and script as the game takes itself more seriously than the first. God damn Max narration made me feel like I was actually there with amazing inner dialogue:
The gameplay is much improved and we get physics that actually alter gameplay before half life 2 took it a stride further. The comics panels, the characters, the set pieces and my god charismatic villain that is interesting to listen to and that beautiful ending. I call the Fall of Max Payne art.
So we get Max Payne 3. If I had got an extension of 2 with more story and gameplay I would have been a happy man as it is such a good base that I can’t think you can go wrong.
First issue: I had was euphoria is amazing in like 3 different areas but generally sucks across the board In comparison to 2. I would have loved it if enemies were only affected by eurphoria but to apply it to Max was a terrible gameplay decision. Yes it looks cool but oh shit I just bullet times into a glass window as I came at the wrong angle and hit the frame instead of going all the way through.
Second issue: cutscene - minor gameplay - cutscene - minor gameplay - cutscene hinders replay value like so much. I couldn’t replay Max Payne 3 except for like 2 sections. I just couldn’t deal with …. The third issue:
The obnoxious script where all the existential themes and decent metaphors from previous games are removed with Max struggle with this shitty inner dialogue:
Max is no longer a smart witty man who is trying to dig to the truth but also himself out of the shitty world he’s in like in the previous games. This new Max talks like he just wants to roll over and die but continues to fight a horde of enemies after enemies. It’s so disjointed, I am a broken man, I hate my life, all I have is this mission and my bottle and it’s all my fault bollocks. How am I supposed to empathise with this character? Throughout 3 all I want to do is bullet time off the edge of a roof to fulfil Max death he craves so much for. He is fatalist to the core and I can’t remember if he cracks one good joke in the entire game. I wouldn’t blame new comers looking for an option to silence Max under audio settings.
My belief is if you loved 1 and 2, you can’t possibly love 3. It’s a cash in on the series name instead of trying to build a new IP. Rockstar are not the gods of cutscenes and scripting as everyone makes them out to be as Max Payne 3 shows time and time again.
What would have helped if Rockstar hadn't watched Man on Fire and thought "Hey Lets turn this into a game!" as that is what they pretty much did. Here is the trailer for that movie:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4kLizDXLY0
b&jy77VjiKn$#F
Member
I'm sorry. I know it's your opinions and all, but what? I love Max Payne series as a whole. Max Payne 3 certainly is different, but I can see where those differences came from and I welcome them. So yeah, I love 1, 2, and 3. I don't see why I can't.
Cave Johnson
Member
I got this game at half-price on steam. Now I severely regret it, I should've waited for the inevitable 75% discount instead. Played it at Hard Mode and I was surprised to be forced into cover especially at the airport terminal. Good god, balancing issues aside, I felt like playing a GTA game with tacked in slow mo. Sleeping dogs did a far more better impression of the Max Payne formula, especially when you go all guns ablazing.
Just another perfect example of how tech overrides creative control.
Just another perfect example of how tech overrides creative control.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
I'm afraid my very existence invalidates this belief. I love each and everyone of these games; it's my favorite series and one of the few that I can honestly say has been of a consistently high standard.
If this was a cash grab, it was an ill-conceived one: A 13 year old cult IP that an entire generation of gamers had likely never even heard of, that had just about the same amount of money spent on it's development and marketing as it actually made back.
DoktorEvil
Banned
That's one of the things that put me off about 3: the horrible balancing of Hard difficulty and being forced into cover and blind firing almost all of the time. It sucks to do this when I have the ability to shoot dodge and bullet time.
I want to just scrap my run and go again on normal and fuck achievements, but the fact that there are 2 more harder difficulty modes to unlock tells me Rockstar wanted this game to be for masocists.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
I'd offer Messy a huge rebuttal on a number of points he makes (and carefully chosen Gifs), but I can never find the willpower or time to sit down and write it. XD
Maybe at the next BritGAF meet...
A lot of things in the previous games are references to other movies, too. Christ, the first one has as flagrant a disregard for intellectual property as Tarantino! XD
Acquiescence
Member
2 is the undisputed masterpiece of the trilogy. In fact it's my favourite shooter bar none. 3 is a great game, has superior gameplay, but Rockstar tried to mold Max and his world into something different, something grittier. And while it was intriguing on its own terms, compared to the gallows humour and pulpy-noir that Remedy achieved with their two installments, it's lacking in identity. Does have James McCaffrey at his best though.
Bluekaveli
Member
OP when you say the colours were washed out, did you play on console? I played mine on PC and the colours were great.
Reading this thread makes me want to go back and play it now. I need a max Payne HD collection asap.
Reading this thread makes me want to go back and play it now. I need a max Payne HD collection asap.
Toddimus Prime
Neo Member
That's an intriguing take on the game Screaming. If it can be related to such films I can only imagine MP3 does have an identity, just not Remedy's. That should negate accusations of a cash-in at least.
Despite that linked thread and Sh1ner's post, my curiosity is getting the better of me and I'll dig it out of the backlog later. I'm still kind of expecting a 'straight-to-video' sequel though.
Did Remedy ever offer their opinion on the third game? I never came across any.
Bluekaveli
Member
Please don't remind me of this thread lol
DoktorEvil
Banned
Really?? I need to play the first one again and check what I didn't catch.
I was played on 360 with a composite connection... Yeah, not the best environment to play. I'll try again on HDMI and see if it's my TV settings or my eyes.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
Yeah. They apparently backed it, had limited consultations on it, and Lake was involved in writing the three part comic bridging MP2 and MP3 with Houser. Whether they were coerced in some way or another is anyone's guess, but Matias seemed enthused about it.
Off the top of my head: The game box cover is Sin City, the game mechanics are from Hardboiled, the plot is Point Blank (starring Lee Marvin) (EDIT: ...and, of course, The Punisher), Vinnie Gognitti is Gary Oldman's character from Leon, The lobby scene from the Matrix is referenced when you storm Aesir Tower, one of the apartments you enter has a mook come out of the toilet having left his uzi on the kitchen table like Pulp Fiction, two tramps dialogue is a reference to an REM song, Captain Baseball Bat Boy is basically Peanuts... etc.
There are a shit ton more.
The Smoking Bun
Banned
Rockstar should stick to their cartooinsh mobster series. They do caricatures not characters, RDR must have been a damn miracle.
DoktorEvil
Banned
Didn't Sin City come out after Max Payne? Other than that, I can't believe I never put 2 and 2 together. I just thought it was a game version of a Raymond Chandler novel.
KaiserBecks
Member
Neither will I. But it's always nice to see these threads because they make me re-install the game.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
The film did. The comic (where that art style derives and probably the inspiration for the photoshopped comic cut scenes) came out in 1991, I believe.
I don't think Marlowe shot nearly as many people as Max XD It's more like a Raymond Chandler novel directed by John Woo.
Seriously, I barely scratched the surface. I just remembered, there are quite a few Usual Suspects references too (the boat mission, "a regular Keysor Soze" etc.).
As I understand it, Lake was brought in relatively late to tie everything together. He did an absolutely stonking job.
It was the follow up to one of the best games of all time by a completely different developer who have different values. It had it's work cut out for it.
ichtyander
Member
MP3 was a surprisingly good third person shooter with tight, satisfying gunplay, I can't argue with that. I didn't really dig the idea of having infinite side jump bullet time though.
The writing and setting were really off the mark though for Max's character. IMO it had absolutely no reason to be a Max Payne game. I think the last drop for me was that completely out of place brutal scene where Max
.
Also, and I'm maybe in the minority here, I think Tony Scott's Man on Fire was a hilariously awful movie so naturally, MP3 had a lot of the stuff from the movie that I really didn't like.
The writing and setting were really off the mark though for Max's character. IMO it had absolutely no reason to be a Max Payne game. I think the last drop for me was that completely out of place brutal scene where Max
chops off a guy's head with a machete, Manhunt style
Also, and I'm maybe in the minority here, I think Tony Scott's Man on Fire was a hilariously awful movie so naturally, MP3 had a lot of the stuff from the movie that I really didn't like.
DoktorEvil
Banned
Please elaborate. Man on Fire was good for what it was: an unleashed Denzel onto a naive Mexican cartel.