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LTTP: Max Payne series (I don't like 3)

Criticizing the story is one thing. Saying that the story in any of the MP games takes precedence over the gameplay is another.

I'd never say story takes precedence in action games, ever, but I think the narrative in Max Payne 2 is entertaining enough that I'd find it reasonable if someone said they enjoyed playing that game for the tone and writing. In that respect, MP3 doesn't hold a candle, and I can understand fans of MP2's dreary tone, and more extravagant monologues being disappointed in MP3 solely because of the change in style. To top it off, there's such a large amount of the story in MP3 delivered through cutscenes that you can't bypass that it could legitimately ruin's one time with the game, EVEN IF you were like me and didn't mind the change in tone.

So I agree that story should never take precedence in gameplay or discussion, but it can (for some people) when discussing this series, more so in 3 because that's how they designed it.
 
I played all three for the first time over the course of the past few months. Enjoyed all three, but the first two especially are just amazing. That noir atmosphere has a real "end of the world"-kind of feel to it. Having remakes of the first two in the engine used for MP3 would be godly.

Max Payne 3 was pretty good, but the best parts of the game were easily the ones that place you back in New York. The Brazil stuff just wasn't as interesting.
 
They were adament about not compressing the texture files
Complete bullshit. How the hell did they fit this on a DVD? I'd rather have an option to only use low quality textures and have high quality ones available as DLC or something. 40GB. Fuck that. Guess I won't be playing it until I have a dedicated gaming PC where I don't care about disk usage.
 
Complete bullshit. How the hell did they fit this on a DVD? I'd rather have an option to only use low quality textures and have high quality ones available as DLC or something. 40GB. Fuck that. Guess I won't be playing it until I have a dedicated gaming PC where I don't care about disk usage.

Are you sure its 40 GB? When I went to DL from Xbox Gold, the Game itself plus the 3 story sections were combined 10-11 GB, maybe a little bit less.
 
I play all of them
MP1 and 2 on computer, MP3 on Xbox.

James G. McCaffrey voice is awesome, and my favorite Max Payne model is the Sam Lake model. Man, that constipated look (can't believe R* fuck that up in MP3), and he look average, which make him more relatable.

Best story is the 1st one, while for gameplay, i choose the 3rd one. I don't really like the 2nd bullet time mode, it turn Max into superhuman kind.

My major complaint for MP3 is unskippable cutscene. I just want to enjoy the gameplay :(
 
Are you sure its 40 GB? When I went to DL from Xbox Gold, the Game itself plus the 3 story sections were combined 10-11 GB, maybe a little bit less.
Okay. Steam says it's 30GB. Still, that's a lot considering it's more than twice as big as my current biggest installed game.
 
I loved the first two games on my Xbox back in the day.

I'd love to try the third but it's a fucking 40GB download full of huge video cutscenes. Or so I'm told. Either way, the developers are assholes who could easily cut the size significantly if they used in-game cutscenes. It's fucking 2014.

But the first two games were something else. I remember playing through the first in one sitting and moving on to the second immediately.
Pre-recorded cutscenes are there for loading, and most of them are real-time. It's only that size on PC, though. The dumb thing about it is that they still look compressed to shit.
 
To be fair, it is a ridiculously convoluted plot at times. Then again, there is a murder that is completely unaccounted for in The Big Sleep and that's considered a stone cold classic.

Well, what does it matter where you lay once you're dead? You're sleeping the big sleep, you're not concerned about how you died or where you fell, or the nastiness of it.
 
Complete bullshit. How the hell did they fit this on a DVD? I'd rather have an option to only use low quality textures and have high quality ones available as DLC or something. 40GB. Fuck that. Guess I won't be playing it until I have a dedicated gaming PC where I don't care about disk usage.

the 360 was like 22 gb on two discs, which is absolutly irresponsible.

Rage was bigger though, I think
 
I am a huge fan of the series, and if I had to rank them, I would do so as follows:

Max Payne 2, Max Payne 3 and Max Payne.

May Payne 2 was phenomenal from a gameplay and story standpoint. I loved the mods on PC too. It is probably my favorite TPS of all time.

I was extremely excited for Max Payne 3 when it was announced. The new location was a little off putting for me, but I got past it pretty quickly because it was a beautiful looking game. I actually think I prefer the levels in Brazil over the NY levels. Gunplay was excellent in the game, Rockstar absolutely nailed that (very important) aspect. I also had quite a bit of fun with the multiplayer, although the community died rather quickly.

What I really did not like about Max Payne 3 was the story and the incredible amount of cutscenes. It may have been lauded as a 10+ hour game by Rockstar, but there was nowhere near that amount of actual gameplay. It was also painfully obvious that the game was not written by Sam Lake. Max had some good, dark, thought provoking lines in the game, but I agree with previous posters who said that the secondary characters felt like they were pulled out of a GTA title.

All in all, could have been better, but I still enjoyed it and have put over 60 hours in to the PC version.
 
I think MP3 is criminally underappreciated. Very good game, loved the cutscenes. My biggest criticism would be the fact that Max is too vulnerable in this game which clashes with the rather offensive shooting mechanics. But at least it had its own thing going on. MP2 just felt like a lukewarm version of the first game; definitely the least MP title in my opinion.
 
I enjoyed the game. But there were things I didn't like about it... and it did a weird thing to me that's been happening more and more lately while I play video games: I reflected on the value of a human life.

I think it was at the point where a bunch of mafia goons in New York were trying to kill me to avenge the death of one guy. It seems like I had killed over a hundred men... all over one killed guy. So it hit me... What are these guys' lives worth? And how many people died keeping me away from one kidnapped lady? Was it worth it to them? They couldn't possibly be paying these goons enough to risk their lives and die by the truckload. It's impossible for each one of these people to be thinking, "He killed 500 people before, but I will be the one to finally take down Max Payne."

Ludonarrative dissonance hit me HARD during Max Payne 3. And I hate when that's brought up, but it really did have noticeable impact on my enjoyment of the game.
 
I think MP3 is criminally underappreciated. Very good game, loved the cutscenes. My biggest criticism would be the fact that Max is too vulnerable in this game which clashes with the rather offensive shooting mechanics. But at least it had its own thing going on. MP2 just felt like a lukewarm version of the first game; definitely the least MP title in my opinion.

wut?
 
Yup. It didn't grab me at all, I didn't care for the Mona Sax story arc and Max as a character didn't have the same strong charisma as in the first game.

To be honest, I definitely did play through MP2 but I can hardly recall anything specific except that I didn't like it that much at the time. It's a blurry haze for me while I still vividly remember many great setpieces and moments from the first game.
 
I enjoyed the game. But there were things I didn't like about it... and it did a weird thing to me that's been happening more and more lately while I play video games: I reflected on the value of a human life.

I think it was at the point where a bunch of mafia goons in New York were trying to kill me to avenge the death of one guy. It seems like I had killed over a hundred men... all over one killed guy. So it hit me... What are these guys' lives worth? And how many people died keeping me away from one kidnapped lady? Was it worth it to them? They couldn't possibly be paying these goons enough to risk their lives and die by the truckload. It's impossible for each one of these people to be thinking, "He killed 500 people before, but I will be the one to finally take down Max Payne."

Ludonarrative dissonance hit me HARD during Max Payne 3. And I hate when that's brought up, but it really did have noticeable impact on my enjoyment of the game.

I haven't heard of someone reflecting on the morality in Max Payne so this is interesting.

For good or for bad?
 
The film noir comic book way to tell the story and avoid animating CGI was a clever development trick that lent to the game's charm, and Max's voice actor James McCaffrey did a hell of a job playing the brooding NYPD detective.

I'd highly recommend this watch of the story of Remedy Games, good 17 min watch of the design decisions behind Max Payne and other games that shows how creative they were with their limited resources.
 
It's the missing constipated look on Max's face isn't it?

maxresdefault.jpg
 
I enjoyed the game. But there were things I didn't like about it... and it did a weird thing to me that's been happening more and more lately while I play video games: I reflected on the value of a human life.

I think it was at the point where a bunch of mafia goons in New York were trying to kill me to avenge the death of one guy. It seems like I had killed over a hundred men... all over one killed guy. So it hit me... What are these guys' lives worth? And how many people died keeping me away from one kidnapped lady? Was it worth it to them? They couldn't possibly be paying these goons enough to risk their lives and die by the truckload. It's impossible for each one of these people to be thinking, "He killed 500 people before, but I will be the one to finally take down Max Payne."

Ludonarrative dissonance hit me HARD during Max Payne 3. And I hate when that's brought up, but it really did have noticeable impact on my enjoyment of the game.
This bothered me as well. Possibly because I played Spec Ops: The Line shortly before. Either way, I had a tough time getting past the sheer number of folks you kill in the game - I mean, it's literally Max Payne vs entire ARMIES.
 
I'd highly recommend this watch of the story of Remedy Games, good 17 min watch of the design decisions behind Max Payne and other games that shows how creative they were with their limited resources.

What I'd like to see is the design docs for Max Payne.

They were right that it wasn't expected to be such a hit, but the market didn't have hard boiled and TPS and they filled the niche in beautifully.

I wish the video didn't make me feel like they're lead by the cult of Matias Millrinne and Sam Lake.
 
I enjoyed the game. But there were things I didn't like about it... and it did a weird thing to me that's been happening more and more lately while I play video games: I reflected on the value of a human life.

I think it was at the point where a bunch of mafia goons in New York were trying to kill me to avenge the death of one guy. It seems like I had killed over a hundred men... all over one killed guy. So it hit me... What are these guys' lives worth? And how many people died keeping me away from one kidnapped lady? Was it worth it to them? They couldn't possibly be paying these goons enough to risk their lives and die by the truckload. It's impossible for each one of these people to be thinking, "He killed 500 people before, but I will be the one to finally take down Max Payne."

Ludonarrative dissonance hit me HARD during Max Payne 3. And I hate when that's brought up, but it really did have noticeable impact on my enjoyment of the game.

I had the same thing when I was a kid. Ludonarrative dissonance ruined a lot of games for me.

I'd be sitting there mashing away at the joystick and I start thinking about it. Is this lone oblong that I control part of a much larger effort or was this essentially the entire Earth Defence in a can, defending a patch of nothingness against an invading alien empire that had sprung forth from their part of this bleak universe of nothingness.

I'd think: What's the point, man?

I mean seriously, they know I'll murder them or at the very least a good deal of them, but they just keep coming... For what? A patch of nothingness equally as devoid as the one they fester in when the Atari is off? Is this some kind of effort by the Aliens to kick start their economy back home by employing a more belligerent stance against other races? Were the alien leaders lying to their people to make them commit to a meaningless war?

Whatever their motivations, they would send wave after wave of ships at me and I would dutifully murder as many of them as I could manage before popping my clogs... and the cycle would repeat.

Sometimes I would sit there in my little Death Pickle and... I couldn't help it, I began imagining those little green bastards burning alive (albeit briefly) in their cockpits just before the ship's hull splinters from the stress and vomits them out into empty space and oblivion. I imagined that the last thing those eye tentacles would see before they popped from the pressures of space, were the burning fragments of a holo-pic of his-hers two tiny podlings; the two back at home on Cassiopeia 17, who sat eagerly awaiting their hermaphrodite father-mother's return from the war and his-her tales of scary oblongs.

"It would ever so make our Splorg Day Celebrations," one would gargle, "if dear father-mother were here to open presents with us."

Sadly, their tiny ear-flaps would not pick up the sound of the black hover car pulling up outside their modest life nest. Nor the car door opening and closing as two somber military aliens jerk up to their door, slowly at first but with more urgency with each step. I imagine the excitement on what passes as a face on those abominations would dissipate very quickly as they answer the door and realise it isn't father-mother. In the distance, there would be the mournful bale of a siren on a tiny space ambulance passing by over the horizon, as the military aliens break the news...

To this day I can't play Space Invaders. It's too much.
 
I played MP2 first in 2003, then a year later MP1 and played MP3 when it was released... both MP1+MP2 are one of my favorite games ever, but MP3, well, you could easy see, that i wasn't from Remedy.. and Rockstar approach was not what i wanted from a MP game.. TOO MANY cutscenes every fucking moment, even when you just needed to go to a door,.. man that was fucking annoying..

the whole Brazil setting wasn't interesting for me, and the story was a fucking mess.. add the tedious filters in cutscenes and the constant weapon switching between gameplay and cutscenes, and you have a game that was mediocre at best..the atmosphere wasn't working for me and in this one i didn't like the character of Max one bit.. or any other characters in the story..

i hugely enjoyed the parts from past, that was the MP game i wanted.. the gameplay when the game give you the chance to play it, was great, the PC port was fantastic and the music was very good.. but other than that, it was a letdown for me.. sorry Rockstar, but there is only one Remedy, and only they know how to make a good or fantastic MP game..
 
Playing on hard, yep.

Only use cover for reloading. If you aren't already, learn to use pistols, and make every shot count, so you may want to adjust your sensitivity so that you are never using ADS, it'll just slow you down.

Other bits of advice I would give are also to use just normal slo mo without diving a lot as it works great, if you're going to dive then make sure you are diving to behind cover to protect yourself (don't leave yourself open) and also that rolling is great for getting out of a pickle and into nearby cover. The enemies also can't shoot for shit when you are in bullettime - outside of it they are like high precision sniper rifles but whilst you are in bullettime they are like stormtroopers.
Listen to this guy. If you aren't acting like Fred Durst when ever you're not firing, as I believe rolling even covers the reload animation, you're not doing it right.
And be sure to get the best angle at all times, by using the dpad to switch camera view. I watched my roommate play through the whole game without doing it, and it drove me crazy.
 
Only use cover for reloading. If you aren't already, learn to use pistols, and make every shot count, so you may want to adjust your sensitivity so that you are never using ADS, it'll just slow you down.

Other bits of advice I would give are also to use just normal slo mo without diving a lot as it works great, if you're going to dive then make sure you are diving to behind cover to protect yourself (don't leave yourself open) and also that rolling is great for getting out of a pickle and into nearby cover. The enemies also can't shoot for shit when you are in bullettime - outside of it they are like high precision sniper rifles but whilst you are in bullettime they are like stormtroopers.
 
Only use cover for reloading. If you aren't already, learn to use pistols, and make every shot count, so you may want to adjust your sensitivity so that you are never using ADS, it'll just slow you down.

Listen to this guy. If you aren't acting like Fred Durst when ever you're not firing, as I believe rolling even covers the reload animation, you're not doing it right.
And be sure to get the best angle at all times, by using the dpad to switch camera view. I watched my roommate play through the whole game without doing it, and it drove me crazy.

Other bits of advice I would give are also to use just normal slo mo without diving a lot as it works great, if you're going to dive then make sure you are diving to behind cover to protect yourself (don't leave yourself open) and also that rolling is great for getting out of a pickle and into nearby cover. The enemies also can't shoot for shit when you are in bullettime - outside of it they are like high precision sniper rifles but whilst you are in bullettime they are like stormtroopers.

I ran thru the favelas and got into the flashback to NY.

The roll is saving me a ton of reload time without animation frames. Good call.

The dpad to change angles makes the game so much more playable in last stand.
 
The third one was a good game but was a terrible Max Payne. The first two had a certain formula that worked well and progressed the story a manner that was fitting to the series IMO. I was disappointed playing MP3 :(
 
Popped in 3 awhile ago and man.. The gameplay is superb. I did a NYC level and got to the part where Max and Passos come across a chop shop - I've got a .45, a Mac 10, and an SMG. It starts me out behind cover, I blindfire with the Mac 10, hit an explosive tank on the wall and take out 3 guys, switch to the SMG and dive straight out of cover, pull two headshots before I hit the ground, get up and ditch the SMG for dual pistols, running and gunning straight at 4 more guys who are coming from outside, kill two at full speed before I come up on a guy with a shotgun and dive again, pulling two more headshots.
I was playing on Old School difficulty and it was literally all over in about ten seconds.
Once you master the game you can clear some areas so fast and just look like a freaking boss doing it.
I love how as you're getting up you can still aim and shoot, and Max might have to use a hand to get up, so as Max pushes himself up, the gun on the floor doesn't fire. So by the time he's standing up the ammo in the two pistols is disproportionate. Details like that are incredible.
I would shootdodge down a short flight of stairs for a PS4/XB1/PC remake of 1&2 with 3's gameplay tuned for a little bit lighter/younger Max.
15th Anniversary combo pack aww yiss
 
What's the best way to play MP1 and MP2 without PC?
I played MP1 back in the day, it was one of my favorite games of all time. I never played the 2nd, but I loved the 3rds mechanics.
 
Max Payne 3 might be my favorite cover shooter of its generation. It's utterly fantastic, and I was a huge fan of MP1 and MP2. Those games having come out when I was in JR High and High School, they were pretty formative for me as a growing gamer, and I felt MP3 lived up every bit as it possibly could to those games in the modern gen.

And it was just such a badass shooter.
 
What's the best way to play MP1 and MP2 without PC?
I played MP1 back in the day, it was one of my favorite games of all time. I never played the 2nd, but I loved the 3rds mechanics.

None of the console versions are very good due to the compromised mechanics inherent of shoehorning a PC exclusive designed around a keyboard onto a controller, but the xbox versions are the least offensive. They're both BC on the 360, and available to purchase on XBL under the Xbox original catalog.

If you don't have access to that I wouldn't even bother. The PS2 versions of both MP1 and MP2 are both pretty dreadful.

But really I question why in the world you don't have the ability to play the PC versions. Essentially any computer made in the last 15 years can play the game. Hell back when it first came out I ran the game on its software renderer on a PC that was shit by 2001 standards.
 
I liked the story of the first Max Payne. But the story ended quickly and there was zero reason to replay it. I felt cheated. So I never tried another one.
 
I liked the story of the first Max Payne. But the story ended quickly and there was zero reason to replay it. I felt cheated. So I never tried another one.

I think you missed the point of the gameplay then, because the Max Payne games are designed to be speedrun, and even have a dedicated mode set up to facilitate it. Not to mention all the games have playfully designed harder difficulty levels that change the mechanics up entirely to change the experience up, sometimes radically changing playthroughs in the process.

I've beaten each Max Payne game at least 4 times each, and the first one about 12 times, and overall put at least 40 hours into each game.
 
I liked the story of the first Max Payne. But the story ended quickly and there was zero reason to replay it. I felt cheated. So I never tried another one.
Max Payne 2 is one of those all time great games you should play at least once. They made the original Max Payne on peanuts, and it still influenced the next generation of games.
 
I personally disliked the writing in Max Payne 3. They did a lot of things with the character that felt like his personality regressed from Max Payne 2 just to make another shooter game. I think they could have continued his story with him not being a sad drunken loser.

I also thought that the violence honestly was not get justified...it just felt like it was violent for the sake of being violent. But that might be more of a personal peeve. I don't need to see people getting shot in the face for almost no reason.
 
I also thought that the violence honestly was not get justified...it just felt like it was violent for the sake of being violent. But that might be more of a personal peeve. I don't need to see people getting shot in the face for almost no reason.

I don't get this. It's like complaining that Tetris has too many blocks. Like it has blocks for the sake of blocks.

It is a Max Payne game... and a shooter, to boot. Surely, having played the previous games, you knew what you were getting into...? Were you maybe expecting Max to invite the bad guys over for tea and crumpets to discuss their differences in a calm and rational manner through a complicated Mass Effect style conversation tree...? XD
 
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