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LttP: Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty
- Thread starter Neiteio
- Start date
Gai Murakumo
Member
One of my favorite games of all time. The ending is the most meta the series has ever been. Once you understand it, it is shocking how much the ending is correct about today's society when this was released in 2001.
I suspect you're right.
My experience with MGS3 went as follows:
- I start out struggling with the controls. The Virtuous Mission was a pain between constantly sticking to cover unintentionally, struggling to not shoot my weapon, and being spotted by enemies with their over-powered line of sight.
- Then I learn that I can run up behind enemies and instantly disable them with a CQC slam. This trivialized nearly every guard encounter from that moment forward.
- I thoroughly enjoyed the boss fights in the first half of the game: Ocelot, The Pain, The Fear, The End and The Fury. Great pacing with a few guard patrols and quiet moments (i.e. stealth through the swamp with the flying platforms, etc) between each boss battle.
- I struggled with The Sorrow since it wasn't clear to me what I was supposed to do. I struggled with Col. Volgin since I didn't fully understand him, either (and to be honest, I still don't understand that fight). And then I really struggled with the Shagohod battle. The aiming in MGS3 feels so loose.
- I beat The Boss by crawling through the flowers, sneaking up on her, shooting her and running away. Worked well.
The infamous EVA escort mission wasn't bad as I had expected, although it repeatedly broke my suspension of disbelief, with EVA shooting into walls (trying to target enemies behind them), among other silly things.
Overall, it was a varied and enjoyable adventure, but it repeatedly offended me with certain game design decisions, as well as the mapping of the controls and their calibration. Someone once said the first-person aiming feels like the devs mapped mouse look to the stick without regard for the analog curve... Such controls may be similar in complexity to those in MGS2, but I feel like they're ill-suited to the rest of MGS3's design, i.e. the uneven terrain full of sticky cover and enemies with long-range line of sight.
Still, I think I might take to it better now that I'm more comfortable with the controls in general, and since I now have a better idea of how to approach each scenario. Might be worth a quick NG+ run where I skip the cutscenes and try to efficiently complete each scenario.
Make sure to learn how to use the coolant spray when you get it.
The ultimate technique to hold up guards: hide behind a corner, make some noise to draw them in, and then go first person and use the coolant spray to temporarily stun them as they come across the corner. Then hold them up, strangle them, or simply shoot them in the head with a tranq dart
It's also possible to hold them up right as they come across the corner but it demands timing.
You can also use it to wake up guards faster.
It's probably the most useful tool in the game tbh. There are some encounters/VR missions that I wouldn't have been able to do without it.
The ultimate technique to hold up guards: hide behind a corner, make some noise to draw them in, and then go first person and use the coolant spray to temporarily stun them as they come across the corner. Then hold them up, strangle them, or simply shoot them in the head with a tranq dart
It's also possible to hold them up right as they come across the corner but it demands timing.You can also use it to wake up guards faster.
It's probably the most useful tool in the game tbh. There are some encounters/VR missions that I wouldn't have been able to do without it.
Pankratous
Member
My favourite MGS game. Amazing.
Stands the test of time so well - and graphically, too.
Stands the test of time so well - and graphically, too.
Whoa. Never ever thought of doing this. I'll have to make use of that in my next playthrough.Make sure to learn how to use the coolant spray when you get it.
The ultimate technique to hold up guards: hide behind a corner, make some noise to draw them in, and then go first person and use the coolant spray to temporarily stun them as they come across the corner. Then hold them up, strangle them, or simply shoot them in the head with a tranq dart
You can also use it to wake up guards faster.
It's probably the most useful tool in the game tbh. There are some encounters/VR missions that I wouldn't have been able to do without it.
-shadow-
Member
His very first episode as a reaction to a hypothetical Last Guardian reveal at the PS4 reveal event three years years ago.
Sub_Level
wants to fuck an Asian grill.
All 3 of them are worth replaying really.
In MGS1 you can do Big Boss rank or get the ending you missed the first time.
In MGS2 you can hunt dog tags (5 playthroughs to get them all) or get Big Boss rank.
In MGS3 you can get Markhor rank, hunt Kerotans, or get FOXHOUND rank.
MGSV had a few nice touches too. Like guards drowning if their faces are in water. Or them being electrified by damaged power lines. Or that you can shoot a wooden ladder while a guard is climbing down and the ladder will break and the guard will fall. Or that if you get into a cardboard box before a stun grenade goes off it will have only a small fraction of the effect it does when your eyes are exposed. I recommend checking out the MGSV mythbusters series for examples like that.
Just watched this again just now, and when the S3 plan music starts and plays, I got goosebumps and feels like it was 2001 again.
!
Adam_Vania
Banned
this is the debut of "La-Li-Lu-Le-Lo" right?
i have taken a Japanese language course and when they taught us hiragana the alphabet was in that order:
a, i, u, e, o
ka, ki, ku, ke, ko
sa, si, su, se, so
etc.
i always wondered if it was a reference to that. almost like saying "My name is abcde".
i have taken a Japanese language course and when they taught us hiragana the alphabet was in that order:
a, i, u, e, o
ka, ki, ku, ke, ko
sa, si, su, se, so
etc.
i always wondered if it was a reference to that. almost like saying "My name is abcde".
Sub_Level
wants to fuck an Asian grill.
Yes.
John Kowalski
Banned
If there is one text about videogames that should be obligatory reading before talking about videogames, Driving Off the Map would be it.
It's also by far the easiest way to beat the Tengu on the highest difficulties IMO, hide behind cover and wait for them to come to you haha
Sub_Level
wants to fuck an Asian grill.
Did you know about the door glitch for the first phase? Even in the PS3 and 360 version you can teleport Raiden through the door.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=suC8_F2-u4g
Tested this on ps3 and it works. Can take multiple tries.
OP, have you done any shenanigans in the bathrooms to see these codecs yet?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDYRUZMdEFA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDYRUZMdEFA
Hahaha, I didn't know about this. Fantastic!
Bluekaveli
Member
Absofuckinglutely. Didn't understand it so much when it came out until I got older but just imagine having a launch ps2 then this game coming out. Good times.
Brolic Gaoler
formerly Alienshogun
Infiltrated Shell 1 disguised as a guard... Used the directional microphone from B2 to locate Ames on B1... Eavesdropped on Solidus, Ocelot and Olga... Had my butt saved by the ninja Mr. X, then backtracked with the lv. 3 card to the warehouse at Strut F to retrieve a sniper rifle, tranquilizer rifle (in the vents), and a grenade launcher...
Disabled the many bombs on the Shell 1-2 connecting bridge (after many attempts to find them all!)... Defeated the harrier (piloted by Vamp and Solidus) using the Stinger and the many rations generously dropped from the chopper (by Snake and Otacon)... To be honest, I don't recall the cutscene where Ray intercepts the fallen harrier and Vamp runs across water and up walls — cool stuff!
Then I worked my way past the wreckage of the bridge, hanging from railings, dropping onto pipes, leaping over gaps in the walkway, crawling past windows patrolled by guards, etc... Now I'm in Shell 2, iirc (Strut L and Strut K are both locked for the time being), and I'm faced with a recreation of MGS1's electric floor. Eavesdropped on Olga, reached the map node, and saved and quit for the time being.
Really enjoying this game!
Disabled the many bombs on the Shell 1-2 connecting bridge (after many attempts to find them all!)... Defeated the harrier (piloted by Vamp and Solidus) using the Stinger and the many rations generously dropped from the chopper (by Snake and Otacon)... To be honest, I don't recall the cutscene where Ray intercepts the fallen harrier and Vamp runs across water and up walls — cool stuff!
Then I worked my way past the wreckage of the bridge, hanging from railings, dropping onto pipes, leaping over gaps in the walkway, crawling past windows patrolled by guards, etc... Now I'm in Shell 2, iirc (Strut L and Strut K are both locked for the time being), and I'm faced with a recreation of MGS1's electric floor. Eavesdropped on Olga, reached the map node, and saved and quit for the time being.
Really enjoying this game!
chekhonte
Member
That is exactly my ordering also. I'd put a couple more spaces between mgs3 and mgs4 but that's me.
The best metal gear ever. The best ost, mechanics and story overall. Amazing how Kojima managed to make two of the best games ever in sequence. Mgs3 is fun, but not on the same level as the two other ones of the trilogy.
Vamp on extreme is still the hardest fight of any game i've ever played. Got stuck on him for weeks and only won after spamming stinger bullets on him
Vamp on extreme is still the hardest fight of any game i've ever played. Got stuck on him for weeks and only won after spamming stinger bullets on him
Sub_Level
wants to fuck an Asian grill.
It's a pain but I think it's worth getting a PS3 and the HD Collection. Best way to play MGS2!
There are a couple ways to cheese that fight that don't include the Stinger
CharminUltra
Member
This game is still my biggest let down of all time; only Halo 2 comes close. The tanker level with Snake is amazing, but everything after that is a mess. Stupid bait and switch with Raiden (easily one of the most annoying video game characters at the time), the shitty love story subplot with Rose. The repetitive and tedious Big Shell environment. Ugh.
Finally got back to this. In the past few hours, I did the following:
- Dove underwater in Shell 2 to retrieve the Nikita, and steered the guided missile through the vents to destroy the generator in the president's cell and shut down the electric floor. (Reading over this sentence, I can't help but laugh.) The president talks about the Patriots and how he played along with the terrorists to gain access to Ray, a form of leverage to join the Wisemen's Committee. Also talks about Arsenal Gear, iirc.
- Worked my way back through the flooded basement en route to Emma, since she's the only person who can upload the worm cluster to shut down GW and stop Arsenal Gear. Encountered Vamp along the way, and defeated him by standing in the corner and firing lock-on Stinger missiles. Finished him off with the M4.
- Met Emma and escorted her through the two flooded passages, then past the guards and ciphers, holding her hand and using coolant to repel bugs, and then used coolant to extinguish the fire on the LK bridge, before climbing down the 130-foot-tall ladder to the oil fence.
- Used thermal goggles to spot claymores on the oil fence, sniping them before Emma reached them. Sniped the recurring guards and ciphers. Vamp stabbed Emma and Snake extracted her. I then raced through Strut E to reach Snake, Emma and Otacon in Shell 1.
- The epic bro-fist moment. Nice to see it in context! Also, Snake and Olga/Mr. X/Ninja using Raiden as bait to get onto Arsenal Gear, the impregnable ocean-faring fortress carrying a nuclear stockpile, a small army of Rays, and the GW data-processing center.
- The scene with Solidus and Ocelot, followed by Olga name-dropping the S3 Simulation and telling Raiden about her child stolen by the Patriots and why she struck a truce with Snake following the tanker incident.
- A heartfelt conversation with the girlfriend is followed by naked crotch-cupping cartwheels past elite guards, while the Colonel AI grows increasingly bizarre and Rose grows increasingly melodramatic (although I must say, I'm hooked on their soap opera drama). Side note: I like how the honeycomb floor panels in Arsenal Gear light up.
- Now I got me a ninja sword with a surprisingly robust moveset. Had fun hacking away the elite guards leading to the end of a corridor, which is where I saved for the time being.
The end-game is excellent so far. I do have various nitpicks about the gameplay, though, such as how they'll randomly drop claymores in the most inexplicable places. A bit of trial and error sometimes, where things are poorly telegraphed. But yeah, this is great!
- Dove underwater in Shell 2 to retrieve the Nikita, and steered the guided missile through the vents to destroy the generator in the president's cell and shut down the electric floor. (Reading over this sentence, I can't help but laugh.) The president talks about the Patriots and how he played along with the terrorists to gain access to Ray, a form of leverage to join the Wisemen's Committee. Also talks about Arsenal Gear, iirc.
- Worked my way back through the flooded basement en route to Emma, since she's the only person who can upload the worm cluster to shut down GW and stop Arsenal Gear. Encountered Vamp along the way, and defeated him by standing in the corner and firing lock-on Stinger missiles. Finished him off with the M4.
- Met Emma and escorted her through the two flooded passages, then past the guards and ciphers, holding her hand and using coolant to repel bugs, and then used coolant to extinguish the fire on the LK bridge, before climbing down the 130-foot-tall ladder to the oil fence.
- Used thermal goggles to spot claymores on the oil fence, sniping them before Emma reached them. Sniped the recurring guards and ciphers. Vamp stabbed Emma and Snake extracted her. I then raced through Strut E to reach Snake, Emma and Otacon in Shell 1.
- The epic bro-fist moment. Nice to see it in context! Also, Snake and Olga/Mr. X/Ninja using Raiden as bait to get onto Arsenal Gear, the impregnable ocean-faring fortress carrying a nuclear stockpile, a small army of Rays, and the GW data-processing center.
- The scene with Solidus and Ocelot, followed by Olga name-dropping the S3 Simulation and telling Raiden about her child stolen by the Patriots and why she struck a truce with Snake following the tanker incident.
- A heartfelt conversation with the girlfriend is followed by naked crotch-cupping cartwheels past elite guards, while the Colonel AI grows increasingly bizarre and Rose grows increasingly melodramatic (although I must say, I'm hooked on their soap opera drama). Side note: I like how the honeycomb floor panels in Arsenal Gear light up.
- Now I got me a ninja sword with a surprisingly robust moveset. Had fun hacking away the elite guards leading to the end of a corridor, which is where I saved for the time being.
The end-game is excellent so far. I do have various nitpicks about the gameplay, though, such as how they'll randomly drop claymores in the most inexplicable places. A bit of trial and error sometimes, where things are poorly telegraphed. But yeah, this is great!
DjCowHerder
Neo Member
I got MGS 2 bundled with my ps2 for Christmas and my god that was quite the experience after my years of playing Super Mario 64 and Banjo Kazooie.
I sadly had only ever played the original MGS maybe once or twice at a friends but 2 was my real introduction to the series.
Never looked back since then and still remains my favourite of the series. So much so that the HD port is one of my favorite 360 titles.
I sadly had only ever played the original MGS maybe once or twice at a friends but 2 was my real introduction to the series.
Never looked back since then and still remains my favourite of the series. So much so that the HD port is one of my favorite 360 titles.
BrotherSeth
Neo Member
Wow. GAF in general really seem to love themselves some MGS2.
I personally think it's one of the weaker MG titels, but Kojima (and team)'s attention to detail is undeniable.
I personally think it's one of the weaker MG titels, but Kojima (and team)'s attention to detail is undeniable.
For me, MGSV is No. 1 by far. As much as I'm enjoying MGS2 right now, neither it nor any of the others can compare with MGSV's gameplay. It really is amazing to me how much Kojima improved the gameplay with MGSV.
Still, going back to the earlier titles, I am enjoying seeing the lore in context. And MGS2 holds up well as a game in its own right.
I think my ultimate ranking will be:
MGSV >>> MGS2 > MGS1 > Peace Walker > MGS3 >>> MGS4
Roni
Banned
I remember being obsessed about getting a PS2 just to play Snake's new aventure. Hype level through the roof, I read an entire illustrated walkthrough of the Tanker before ever playing it.
I remember being so disappointed when I realized I wasn't going to be playing as Snake for most of the game... I still liked the game, but it was just missing something, you know. When MGS3 was announced I thought we were finally getting to play as Solid Snake again, but we were playing as Naked Snake, which - in all honesty - turned out to be really cool.
I haven't really invested myself in finishing MGS2 in a while, maybe over 10 years. I later learned it offers some really neat shortcuts that make firefights more dynamic and interesting (like L1 to lock and move while shooting, leaning in First Person) but when I played the game way back when I never bothered to truly master those.
I should probably look at doing that...
I remember being so disappointed when I realized I wasn't going to be playing as Snake for most of the game... I still liked the game, but it was just missing something, you know. When MGS3 was announced I thought we were finally getting to play as Solid Snake again, but we were playing as Naked Snake, which - in all honesty - turned out to be really cool.
I haven't really invested myself in finishing MGS2 in a while, maybe over 10 years. I later learned it offers some really neat shortcuts that make firefights more dynamic and interesting (like L1 to lock and move while shooting, leaning in First Person) but when I played the game way back when I never bothered to truly master those.
I should probably look at doing that...
Curious you rank MGS4 last considering it's the most similar to V in terms of mechanics.
But yeah, V is my favorite too. I love all of them though.
The mechanics were pretty good in MGS4 (if a bit over-sensitive), but it's really a case of the poor pacing and lopsided story-to-gameplay ratio dragging down the overall experience.
Also, I hate to use the word "cringe" (since the Internet seems to overuse it, often in regards to pretty harmless things), but I found myself cringing at stuff like Johnny constantly shitting his pants, or the Mr. and Mrs. Smith shootout, or the wedding at the end, or Drebin's monologues on each of the B&B Corp, or Otacon "crying" over Naomi on the laptop.
That being said, I am interested to revisit MGS4. I think I might appreciate it more now that I've played all of the main games leading up to it. Also, MGS4 does have one of my all-time favorite moments in videogame (Big Boss: "This is good, isn't it?").
At any rate, like you, I ultimately love all of these games, flaws and all.
Arthimura
Member
I respect your opinion, but for me MGS is more about the plot, atmosphere, ambientation and characters than gameplay, so my favourites are MGS2 and MGS3, because of the amazing plots.
I feel like 95% of MGSV is filler and it's a MGS game made for people who don't like or understand the series.
And even regards gameplay, i think MGS2 and MGS3 have perfect gameplay for it's proposal, that is being linear stealth games. They are super polished and advanced for their time.
Even as a open-world game i think MGSV isn't good, since the missions are too repetitive, the world feels empty and copy-pasted and the enemy AI is terrible. And the gunplay was much better in MGS4, imo.
FlashbladeGAF
Member
You can break out the Patriot when you fill the need to channel your inner Rambo.
EDIT: To me, MGS is about both. so I have two lists
I may save this discussion for its own thread, but I actually find the old-school MGS games to be lacking in variety.
The map in MGS1-3 is very simplistic, comprised of bite-sized areas with one or two paths, especially MGS3 where every other area consists of a simple double helix with two paths. And in terms of objectives, the old-school MGS games usually just task you with reaching a certain destination. Along the way you're forced into gimmick scenarios where you have no choice but to do what the game is asking you (i.e. steer a rocket, provide sniper cover, etc).
That's part of why MGSV is so refreshing. The overarching objectives may take only a handful of forms — rescue, assassination, eavesdropping, stalking, stealing, ambushing, etc — but there are near-infinite ways you can go about these goals, and near-infinite ways they can play out. Not to mention that the open-world sandbox allows you to approach your infiltration/exfiltration in a wide variety of ways. It also factors into missions and side objectives that span multiple locations, where you use the space in between bases to tail your target, intercept them or set up ambushes at chokepoints, etc. Or heck, you could even set up a sniper roost instead.
Plus, pretty much everyone agrees MGSV has some of the most fun mechanics and best-feeling controls around. It's just a pleasure to play. Still not bored of MGSV after 200+ hours, while I'll be perfectly satisfied with my 20/30-hour playthroughs of the prior titles.
I also find MGSV has exquisite atmosphere and some really cool ideas at work, thematically speaking.
Just my take. I may go explore the gameplay differences between titles more in-depth in a future thread. But make no mistake: I love all of these games.
MegaSackman
Member
I really don't understand how anyone can enjoy Big Shell, I found it terribly boring aesthetically repetitive place to be in.
After the Tanker MGS2 went into big fall every minute in my opinion and is not even Raiden's fault.
After the Tanker MGS2 went into big fall every minute in my opinion and is not even Raiden's fault.
JimmyRustler
Member
The attention to detail is unrivaled. That games was such a mindblowing jump (technically) from MGS1, I doubt we'll ever see anything like it again.
FlashbladeGAF
Member
MGSV gives the player more options, because the game is newer.
You can't really compare the two on gameplay alone.
MGS1 was made on the PS1. Think about that. It followed the Super Nintendo.
The reason why it is the best to many was the overall impact and just how well rounded it all was, with the pacing, story, characters, gameplay, etc...
Now it may not seem much today, but MGS1's gameplay has variety in the gameplay, thru the scenarios you are forced into. Sneaking thru corridors, gun fights with an old cowboy, shootouts on a stairwell, a psychic fight, a sniper/fist fight due, etc... The game played to many beats which was rare at the time. Especially for an
Holding the gameplay specifically up to later entries is almost a disservice. Especially since Kojima has improved on it with each new game. But as far as the total package MGS1 is hard to top for those who experienced it when it first game out.
Roni
Banned
It's OK to just say you prefer Tactical Espionage Action instead of Tactical Espionage Operations...
The gameplay of MGSV is king. I would LOVE if Konami took that engine & gameplay & made a complete remake of Metal Gear Solid with it. But oh well.
By the way, did you finish MGS2 yet?
My most recent MGS2 update was today. See Post #130.
My most recent MGS2 update was today. See Post #130.
Nice. I'll wait until you complete it to ask the question I want to ask. Or hopefully, you'll speak on it yourself in the next update. Glad you're enjoying it!
This game is always amazing to look back on and play, the design of the Tanker and Plant actually gave this game a feeling of a generation jump, the 60fps smoothness, the music, etc, and how a lot of people hated the plot at the time, but as the years have gone on, it's now looked upon more favourably, especially since in a weird way a lot of what the game predicted did happen in terms of media control, manipulation of the internet, etc.
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