shadyspace
Banned
Oh really? Cool. Someone told me years ago that that interpretation was wrong and I guess it stuck with me.
I was being flippant. EoE's fine. Haven't seen it in a while though. I'd probably end up enjoying it more with hindsight.
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LTTP : Neon Genesis Evangelion
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Oh really? Cool. Someone told me years ago that that interpretation was wrong and I guess it stuck with me.
I wouldn't worry too much. Those two episodes result of the budget running out.
As the series goes on the animation quality worsens and the amount of still frames increases. A real shame because the first six or so episodes are gorgeous. I read somewhere that originally it was intended to be a OVA series before being turned into a TV series? That might explain the massive budget front-loading the series had.
EoE is just exactly what they would have done from the beginning if they could have.
The very loose plot frameworks are the same. The implications of each are very much not. EoE is a much more grim take on events and you get the impression he's still just totally fucked up and probably should just kill himself already.
The animation quality doesn't worsen -- the style of animation & direction changes. Some of the best animation cuts are in the later episodes, anyways.
Dude it noticeably drops in quality. That bit where Eva shows its "true form" for the fifth-thousandth time and everyone is shocked yet again and it grows a human arm and then it eats the Angel and everyone is all "ew" is some of the ugliest animation I have ever seen. Excusing it as a change in style/direction is dishonest when the budget of the show is very noticeably getting thin.
There are some really happy accidents as a result of this - we certainly wouldn't have gotten the minute-long "do I kill him or not" shot without them - but there's only so many repeated three-frame animations set to consistent "who am i am i a real person why isn't the plot progressing or the characters being developed in the slightest" speeches before you get tired and have to call bullshit.
edit - I should clarify that I really like Evangelion but it is so fucking flawed in so many different ways that when attempting to discuss it I can't help but sound like a hater. I think that the Rebuild movies - where Anno finally has all the budget and artistic freedom he wants - being so terrible is very telling.
Elevator wait from hell.
Heh. It's quite grim, but I wouldn't go that far.
End of Evangelion is awful, do not watch it if you want your memory of the show to be pristine. I've only seen the first Rebuild movie and it was serviceable, I hear mixed things about the rest of them.
It's a great show and certainly required viewing for anyone interested in anime. I found the TV ending to be very ambitious and a great ending for what the show was really about.
It's a great show and certainly required viewing for anyone interested in anime. I found the TV ending to be very ambitious and a great ending for what the show was really about.
The End of Evangelion is one of the most interesting films of the 90s. Missing out on it to protect your memory of the show would be a huge mistake.
Not that I disagree with you about the TV ending. It's nice to see all the appreciation for it in this thread.
Uh, you think Mitsuo Iso (iirc, for that bit) animation is ugly? lol. No words.
I don't care if they resurrected Walt Disney himself, gave him 25 years of apprenticeship learning in the Japanese style of animation then made him do the scene. It looks ugly.
whalleywhat
Member
I've only watched the Rebuilds within the last 5 years, but I remember thinking EoE was the high point of the series.
You were right.
Go on....
Trent Strong
Banned
The very end of EOE makes no sense and is infuriating.
SteveWinwood
Member
"Angel's Egg did not do well with audiences or critics on its release. But in the early 2000's the film's reputation was spread on anime festivals and the film now has small but dedicated group of fans which calls it a masterpiece."
Sell me on it please.
That's nice, but it isn't ugly.
Using an incredibly well-animated scene are "proof" that the animation quality dropped does not help your argument much. And yes, styles that come as the result of limited budget/time and result in things such as clever use of striking stills & looped/recycled cuts are still legitimate styles that can be considered good. Also see for further examples: Osamu Dezaki.
You really need to shed the Western/Disney animation view of "more frames and smoothness is betterer" because it simply isn't true, and it's a very troublesome (to say the least) view to have when discussing anime with other people.
shadyspace
Banned
I watched the tv series and EoE for the first time when I was 12. Did I do it wrong?
Elaborate.
Except I didn't bring up framerate. If I did, I wouldn't think the first six or so episodes as really nicely animated. Walt Disney was just used as a quick "famous animator" reference to make the point I don't care whose name was attached to the scene.
SteveWinwood
Member
It's funny because these sentences can be taken two separate ways and it works great in either.
Nah. Not the same thing as watching it for the first time as a 20 something I think
Zaraki_Kenpachi
Member
I wish the would reprint the movies so you could buy them at a reasonable price.
$250 is a totally reasonable price!
shadyspace
Banned
It's probably a big part of the reason I loved the tv ending so much. I was living that shit. That ending was rapturous at the time. It was like they were saying congratulations to me.
SteveWinwood
Member
Zaraki_Kenpachi
Member
Are they really worth that much? :O
I have them
Well new and sealed. Used it's still like $30-$40 last I checked.
That's an import that's 6 blurays and I'm assuming a lot less popular than Eva. They made a million different printing of the series themselves, I'm not sure why they've never done it for the movies.
Trent Strong
Banned
Are they really worth that much? :O
I have them
I saw it on Amazon at $250 before, it seems to have gone down to $150 now.
PeakPointMatrix
Member
Holy shit, you can't seriously be talking about the berserk scene. It's some of the best animation in the anime. Then the choice to mask most of Unit 1 in shadow, only seeing his eyes, and the drawing themselves, you can really feel the raw energy from the way it's drawn. It makes the animator in me tingle. It's amazing. The rebuilds wish they had animation this good.
But you did bring up recycled animation, still frames, and recycling of low frame cuts.
And this still doesn't change that your example of "ugly animation" is not ugly in any way, shape, or form.
shadyspace
Banned
Because Asuka was, like, a total bitch, man.
That she was.
SteveWinwood
Member
I bought both death and rebirth and end of evangelion for like 20 bucks each and complained about that shit being expensive.
And anime companies wonder why their stuff gets pirated all the time.
And anime companies wonder why their stuff gets pirated all the time.
Jo Shishido's Cheeks
Member
EoE is shit and ruins the ending but I've had this argument too many times on GAF to go into it again 
Just stop where you are, you've seen all the good stuff!
New films are interesting I guess, not essential though.
Just stop where you are, you've seen all the good stuff!
New films are interesting I guess, not essential though.
None of which have anything to do with framerate. Well, I guess the still frames might, but I wouldn't include them in an animation discussion.
The three-frame cycling was specifically for the talking head moments that occur with increasing frequency and occupy far too much running time as the show goes on. It's meant to be Shinji being deeply retrospective and developing his character and shit but it fails and is annoying. So much of the tail end of the series could be edited down with little artistic impact.
And guy I don't know how "And this still doesn't change that your example of "ugly animation" is not ugly in any way, shape, or form" is meant to be an argument? I mean, I think it looks terrible. "Is not" isn't exactly helpful. It's not even "I disagree", you're actually trying to tell me I'm factually wrong, invoking the name of the animator you think did that scene as if that's meant to make me change my mind.
I've noticed you tend to take a very either/or approach in your arguing. Either something is amazing or it's complete shit. I don't know how to discuss things with you.
shadyspace
Banned
Seriously, probably something about Shinji wanting to be alone or something. I'd like to hear a well-reasoned take on it as well, as it's been quite some time for me.
SteveWinwood
Member
Not that end. The end where it's now $150 bucks. Why would someone buy that?
shadyspace
Banned
This is legitimately offensive.
What else am I supposed to tell you? It's a well-animated scene. You are wrong. And Mitsuo Iso did animate it -- I just looked it up.
For what it's worth (& to make you happy with unnecessary verbosity), the reason why Mitsuo Iso's name matters more than any other talented animator namedrop is because he's a very unique animator in addition to being talented & respected. He animates everything on alternating 2s and 3s and does not have his animation passed off to in-between animators. This allows him to have complete control over what happens in every frame of every cut he animates. As such, his cuts are extremely detailed (in movement) and have an extremely well-conveyed sense of weight & smooth movement -- the awkward weightlessness and jittery properties that plague even talented animators do not apply to his work. Watch this for more info -- I've already spent like ten minutes writing this post and feel like I've written & explained enough.
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