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LTTP: Stargate Franchise - Indeed

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I have XBMC playlists setup with complete sets of Stargate SG1/Atlantis/Universe and Star Trek TOS/TNG/DS9/VOY/ENT and I just have them playing when I'm doing shit like internet browsing or online gaming. I tend to watch them in waves, doing TNG then DS9 and then SG1 watching random episodes of series in batches.

Anyway SG1 and SGA have been my go to shows recently and something came to mind.

SG1 and to a lesser extent have no main characters I dislike. TNG has wesley shit and Troi and stuff. Voyager has an entire crew of twats. DS9 has Kira. SG1 has no one. I find myself wanting more of people like Jonas Quinn. The main SG1 4 are great. Mitchell is fun.

Really top notch characters in SG1
 
StalkerUKCG said:
I have XBMC playlists setup with complete sets of Stargate SG1/Atlantis/Universe and Star Trek TOS/TNG/DS9/VOY/ENT and I just have them playing when I'm doing shit like internet browsing or online gaming. I tend to watch them in waves, doing TNG then DS9 and then SG1 watching random episodes of series in batches.

Anyway SG1 and SGA have been my go to shows recently and something came to mind.

SG1 and to a lesser extent have no main characters I dislike. TNG has wesley shit and Troi and stuff. Voyager has an entire crew of twats. DS9 has Kira. SG1 has no one. I find myself wanting more of people like Jonas Quinn. The main SG1 4 are great. Mitchell is fun.

Really top notch characters in SG1
Click to expand...

The original four main characters were great, that's true. Teal'c as a muscle / comic relief character is well balanced compared to the two alien crew members the had in Atlantis. And I thought it was pretty weird that the writers felt that having Teyla there wasn't enough, they had to create a more Teal'c like Ronon. The episodes based on those characters were't all that good.

Anyway, I always felt that McKay was one of the best character in Stargate. The episodes based on him were always the best.
 
I mean how can you not love watching this bastard?
Nicholas_Rush_SGU.jpg
 
SpoonyBard said:
The original four main characters were great, that's true. Teal'c as a muscle / comic relief character is well balanced compared to the two alien crew members the had in Atlantis. And I thought it was pretty weird that the writers felt that having Teyla there wasn't enough, they had to create a more Teal'c like Ronon. The episodes based on those characters were't all that good.

Anyway, I always felt that McKay was one of the best character in Stargate. The episodes based on him were always the best.
Click to expand...

At the start of Atlantis

Sheppard -> O'Neill
McKay -> Jackson with Carter's brains
Ford -> Male Carter minus her brains
Teyla -> Female Teal'c

Ronon replaced Ford, but he was a better Teal'c than Tayla was, so Teyla just sort of became the token female, after Dr Weir.
 
Cheerilee said:
At the start of Atlantis

Sheppard -> O'Neill
McKay -> Jackson with Carter's brains
Ford -> Male Carter minus her brains
Teyla -> Female Teal'c

Ronon replaced Ford, but he was a better Teal'c than Tayla was, so Teyla just sort of became the token female, after Dr Weir.
Click to expand...

Yep, well, Ford was useless. And only slightly more interesting as a bad guy. And I kind of agree that Ronon was a better Teal'c than Teyla. But the fact that the writers felt that they must have a Teal'c like character there tells us something about the lack of imagination these guys have...
 
SpoonyBard said:
Yep, well, Ford was useless. And only slightly more interesting as a bad guy. And I kind of agree that Ronon was a better Teal'c than Teyla. But the fact that the writers felt that they must have a Teal'c like character there tells us something about the lack of imagination these guys have...
Click to expand...

There are Teal'cs in a lot of SF shows that follow the Trek model. Spock, Worf, Odo are all Teal'c to varying degrees, i.e. part of the crew that isn't a normal human and offers perspective into other races in the setting. Although just doing a blanket copy of Teal'c (i.e. alien perspective + stoic warrior archetype) is indeed probably a symptom of playing it safe during the series development stage.
 
SpoonyBard said:
Yep, well, Ford was useless. And only slightly more interesting as a bad guy. And I kind of agree that Ronon was a better Teal'c than Teyla. But the fact that the writers felt that they must have a Teal'c like character there tells us something about the lack of imagination these guys have...
Click to expand...

Considering that they felt the need to replace Daniel with Jonas, and when Daniel came back they dumped Jonas as quickly as they added him, along with all of his storylines...
 
ThoseDeafMutes said:
There are Teal'cs in a lot of SF shows that follow the Trek model. Spock, Worf, Odo are all Teal'c to varying degrees, i.e. part of the crew that isn't a normal human and offers perspective into other races in the setting. Although just doing a blanket copy of Teal'c (i.e. alien perspective + stoic warrior archetype) is indeed probably a symptom of playing it safe during the series development stage.
Click to expand...

Well, that's true. I guess part of the problem also came from how Teal'c's stoicism was played as a joke in the series so often, that it was difficult to take another similar character seriously. Vala worked much better as an alien character, I thought. Even if SG-1 had become much sillier overall at that point...
 
I abandoned it years ago right at the
Battle fo Antarctica
. Should I resume it or should I save the mostly good memories I have of it?
 
What I love most about this series is that by the end Earth has defeated mostly all the universes biggest threats and with all the technology Earth has collected we are a force to be reckoned with.

Sure we might not have a fleet of huge spaceships, only like....what 5 or something? But they have those super powerful Asgard shields and beam weapons which are so overpowered and can take out anything with ease.

And then that ancient weapons platform on the Earth which might be even more op that the spaceships.
 
TheVampire said:
What I love most about this series is that by the end Earth has defeated mostly all the universes biggest threats and with all the technology Earth has collected we are a force to be reckoned with.

Sure we might not have a fleet of huge spaceships, only like....what 5 or something? But they have those super powerful Asgard shields and beam weapons which are so overpowered and can take out anything with ease.

And then that ancient weapons platform on the Earth which might be even more op that the spaceships.
Click to expand...

It's the same progression you get in an X-Com videogame. And it feels awesome to watch for largely the same reason - it's not all that realistic but it is very satisfying.
 
The original Stargate movie is so incredibly stupid that I have no idea how on earth it spawned a series or fanbase. The first act is cool when he finds the weird device or whatever, but then when they get transported to Egypt and have to fight the Pharaoh who thinks he's god or whatever it get REALLY dumb. I haven't seen it in like 10 years so I might be forgetting some details, but the Egypt shit has none of the awesome mystery and intrigue from the beginning of the movie. You don't learn much of anything interesting about the Stargate or the Egyptians or whatever, IIRC, it just becomes a cheap, made-for-tv looking action movie. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't remember liking the movie after they go to Egypt.

Maybe the series is good though? I haven't seen it so can't comment.
 
Whenever i see this thread reemerge, it reminds me that i have yet to experience SG-1 in it's entirety for the very FIRST time so... After having caught up on B-5 last year i will finally have watched all worthwhile space operas out there :)
 
Timedog said:
The original Stargate movie is so incredibly stupid that I have no idea how on earth it spawned a series or fanbase. The first act is cool when he finds the weird device or whatever, but then when they get transported to Egypt and have to fight the Pharaoh who thinks he's god or whatever it get REALLY dumb. I haven't seen it in like 10 years so I might be forgetting some details, but the Egypt shit has none of the awesome mystery and intrigue from the beginning of the movie. You don't learn much of anything interesting about the Stargate or the Egyptians or whatever, IIRC, it just becomes a cheap, made-for-tv looking action movie. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't remember liking the movie after they go to Egypt.

Maybe the series is good though? I haven't seen it so can't comment.
Click to expand...

The movie is a by-the-numbers action flick that uses ancient aliens as a backstory. The series changes a bunch of stuff, mainly by introducing a likable cast of characters. It's a little shit in the first season but it picks up fast. It's a tad more action/adventure oriented than most star trek shows I'd say, but has a lot in common with them too.
 
Timedog said:
The original Stargate movie is so incredibly stupid that I have no idea how on earth it spawned a series or fanbase.
Click to expand...

The producers of the show saw a ring with symbols on it, and didn't think of it as being a combination lock, they saw a limitless set of possibilities. Endless low-budget Star Trek planets, without the need for a starship.
 
Timedog said:
I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't remember liking the movie after they go to Egypt.

Maybe the series is good though? I haven't seen it so can't comment.
Click to expand...

They don't go to Egypt, they go to a distant planet where the aliens that were controlling Egypt in Pharaoh's time had a settlement.
It's true that the premise is more interesting than the conclusion though. There were a few nice ideas that were introduced then (ring teleporters, morphing helmets, pyramids as space shuttle docking stations,...), but everything else was just "shoot
/nuke
the bad guys !"

Cheerilee said:
"Are you suggesting an alien conspiracy?"
Click to expand...

Teal'c's humor is something else... :P

TheVampire said:
What I love most about this series is that by the end Earth has defeated mostly all the universes biggest threats and with all the technology Earth has collected we are a force to be reckoned with.

Sure we might not have a fleet of huge spaceships, only like....what 5 or something? But they have those super powerful Asgard shields and beam weapons which are so overpowered and can take out anything with ease.
Click to expand...

I also like how humanity has some sort of sick mind that can turn high tech technology into weapons. Like for example when they thought of
using Asgard teleportation to send nuclear bombs right into spaceships
.

Asgards didn't think about it, and didn't even want to do it... but Tau'ris don't care. :P
 
Alx said:
They don't go to Egypt, they go to a distant planet where the aliens that were controlling Egypt in Pharaoh's time had a settlement.
It's true that the premise is more interesting than the conclusion though. There were a few nice ideas that were introduced then (ring teleporters, morphing helmets, pyramids as space shuttle docking stations,...), but everything else was just "shoot
/nuke
the bad guys !"
Click to expand...

Oh, I don't remember that. Well that idea seems more interesting than whatever I thought it was. Does it explain why the aliens left earth or why they go to different planets and become gods?
 
Timedog said:
Oh, I don't remember that. Well that idea seems more interesting than whatever I thought it was. Does it explain why the aliens left earth or why they go to different planets and become gods?
Click to expand...

While the alien god was offworld on the Egypt-like planet, the Earth-side slaves attacked the guards, closed the stargate, and buried it. The alien never bothered to fly over with his ship to whip the slaves and unbury the gate.
 
Timedog said:
Oh, I don't remember that. Well that idea seems more interesting than whatever I thought it was. Does it explain why the aliens left earth or why they go to different planets and become gods?
Click to expand...

The aliens are really, really into the whole "vanity & megalomania" thing, hence the pretenses of godhood and endless worshippers/slaves.
 
Timedog said:
The original Stargate movie is so incredibly stupid that I have no idea how on earth it spawned a series or fanbase. The first act is cool when he finds the weird device or whatever, but then when they get transported to Egypt and have to fight the Pharaoh who thinks he's god or whatever it get REALLY dumb. I haven't seen it in like 10 years so I might be forgetting some details, but the Egypt shit has none of the awesome mystery and intrigue from the beginning of the movie. You don't learn much of anything interesting about the Stargate or the Egyptians or whatever, IIRC, it just becomes a cheap, made-for-tv looking action movie. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't remember liking the movie after they go to Egypt.
Click to expand...

Yeah, the best part of the movie is James Spader getting the gate working on earth. The reason it got a series is because although the movie does little with it, the concept is brilliant.

Timedog said:
Maybe the series is good though? I haven't seen it so can't comment.
Click to expand...

It's a solid, fun sci-fi series with a better cast, better dialogue and better plots then the movie for eight seasons. As it goes on, it goes big on serialisation rather then planet-of-the-week, which generally works very well.

darkwing said:
I'm still sad they canceled SGU, it needed an ending
Click to expand...

It could have done better with never beginning

almost as bad as stargate infinity
 
I'm just mad that we we will never get that O'Neill-centered SG-1 movie about public disclosure that was supposed to come after Extinction.

As you can tell by my username and my avatar I am a huge Stargate fan. I really wish it would come back to Netflix in the US, especially since SG-1 isn't on blu-ray.
 
One of the frustrating things with Stargate is all the loose ends. Not just the lack of closure for SGA and SGU and the final O'Neill movie, but also all the little dropped plot points like Jonas Quinn, Kinsey/NID, the Re'tu, Sarah Gardner, Oannes (alien species who supposedly helped the humans rise against Ra yet they're not mentioned at all in "Möbius"), Sora Tyrus (redhead Genii taken prisoner by Atlantis), etc.
 
Dont forget the Furlings. :D
I'm ok with a universe having loose ends. It actually makes them more believable, like when you're reading the Lord of the Rings or the Neverending Story, and they just mention parts of the mythos that you'll never learn about.
 
Alx said:
Dont forget the Furlings. :D
I'm ok with a universe having loose ends. It actually makes them more believable, like when you're reading the Lord of the Rings or the Neverending Story, and they just mention parts of the mythos that you'll never learn about.
Click to expand...

The Furlings were going to be addressed in Stargate Worlds.
 
How are they going to continue the series ? how would you feel about a reboot?

Personally I think it will take some sort of Star Trek sidestep.. time paradox blah blah you get the idea. The G'ould are back, more realistic and edgier than before! old daniel will guide young daniel onto how find the stargate and build sg-1. but this time something doesn't go to plan. Before we could build sg-1, we must save it.

I could go all day.
 
CoffeeExpress said:
How are they going to continue the series ? how would you feel about a reboot?

Personally I think it will take some sort of Star Trek sidestep.. time paradox blah blah you get the idea. The G'ould are back, more realistic and edgier than before! old daniel will guide young daniel onto how find the stargate and build sg-1. but this time something doesn't go to plan. Before we could build sg-1, we must save it.

I could go all day.
Click to expand...

Wait 5 years, hard reboot (not a time travel related one). Plan the series arc and firmly scope the tech in the setting from the start. Integrate some high concept SF into the core mythology, and sort out said mythology before filming. Take some cues from SGU but include the light hearted adventuring a little more often.

Things that should not return:
  • Aliens all speaking English (at least at the start; goa'uld can learn it from taking hosts or whatever)
  • Ancients as human precursors that look 100% human
  • Zat disintegration
  • Theme planets, e.g. mongols in space, vikings in space.
  • Any time travel

I've had a lot of ideas about it but regrettably I don't own the IP.
 
If the new Stargate movie does happen, I assume the "two L" SG-1 universe is dead.

ThoseDeafMutes said:
Things that should not return:
  • Aliens all speaking English (at least at the start; goa'uld
  • Theme planets, e.g. mongols in space, vikings in space.
Click to expand...
So S1 has Daniel speaking "Egyptian" or whatever to the locals for like 4 episodes before they gave up on that entirely. Remember how they kept saying "Chupa'ai" and pointed to the Stargate all the time. lol

The theme planets thing was mostly a legacy of hiring old fashioned TNG writers at the beginning. Of course, eventually it just became Vancouver forest villagers all the time by the time the series ended.
 
firehawk12 said:
If the new Stargate movie does happen, I assume the "two L" SG-1 universe is dead.
Click to expand...

I hate that other guy. No sense of humour!


So S1 has Daniel speaking "Egyptian" or whatever to the locals for like 4 episodes before they gave up on that entirely. Remember how they kept saying "Chupa'ai" and pointed to the Stargate all the time. lol

The theme planets thing was mostly a legacy of hiring old fashioned TNG writers at the beginning. Of course, eventually it just became Vancouver forest villagers all the time by the time the series ended.
Click to expand...

In my mind, Goa'uld language would be a lingua franca for navigating the Milky way network. Each planet will have its own local language, but there will be people there familiar with Goa'uld either because they are currently or were recently ruled by the Goa'uld, or because it's an interstellar trading language even for any non-isolated planet. The series creators would be able to actually get some linguist in to whip up a language with a few well known words from the old series (Chappa'Ai, Sholva, Kree!) as touchstones. Major series villains that interact with humans will themselves learn English and have their major lieutenants pick it up. Then, we have a way for the team to communicate, including in English, but we have also addressed the issue of why they can speak a common language at all.

And yeah, S1 of SG1 does feel like bad rehashes of old Trek plots in a lot of places.
 
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