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LTTP: Stargate Franchise - Indeed

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Eh, in a universe with Anubis, Ba'al, and even
The Ori
, Apophis is C-grade. He has no chance against the heavy-hitters in the series, only pretensions of being a heavy-hitter himself. Just like a Goa'uld.
 
Do not get me wrong, I am enjoying the show, but I generally find the Goa'uld to be a pretty weak villain. While there are certainly better ones like Heru'ur and Sokar, they're all basically the same thing.

"KNEEL BEFORE YOUR GOD, SON OF JOR'EL!"

I'd like a bit more variety.
 
DrForester said:
Do not get me wrong, I am enjoying the show, but I generally find the Goa'uld to be a pretty weak villain. While there are certainly better ones like Heru'ur and Sokar, they're all basically the same thing.

"KNEEL BEFORE YOUR GOD, SON OF JOR'EL!"

I'd like a bit more variety.
Click to expand...

Oh. Can't wait until you see the most badass motherfucker to ever grace a Stargate episode.
 
Indeed.

Baal_61-1.jpg
 
So a good episode. Teal'c thing could be interesting. Hopefully it isn't magically reset in an episode or two and takes awhile.

Cautiously optimistic that Apophis is gone for good...

Mister Saturn said:
Indeed.

Baal_61-1.jpg
Click to expand...

That's some swagger right there. I like him already.

Next episode.

Threshold

ywseBSs.gif
 
Ba'al is pretty good.

Was the first episode with Ba'al the one with Jack and the stuff that's really spoilery? That was a damn good episode.
 
Threshold
I'm mixed. On one hand, I like the Teal'c backstory, on the other hand it's super cheap to wrap up that type of character arc in one episode.
 
firehawk12 said:
I watched the first episode. Honestly, it's about as good as Atlantis. lol
Click to expand...

I'm sorry, did someone just talk shit bout Atlantis...

(probably in the minority that likes Atlantis more than SG-1)

ooh, i loved threshold. that the one where
identity stealing aliens we never see again come through the gate?
EDIT. whoops, no thats foothold.
 
dangerbyrnes said:
I'm sorry, did someone just talk shit bout Atlantis...

(probably in the minority that likes Atlantis more than SG-1)

ooh, i loved threshold. that the one where
identity stealing aliens we never see again come through the gate?
EDIT. whoops, no thats foothold.
Click to expand...
I hate Atlantis. It was when the franchise overextended itself, to the point where they brought in both Amanda Tapping and Robert Picardo to try to save it. :p

This is before they gave up on the whole idea of an international Stargate team after their one Japanese character basically ended up being a geisha-substitute who was subservient to men. lol
 
Zalenka was played by a Czech, at least.

The SGC being one branch of the military of one country was always weird. The whole stargate program was like Earth with a hand tied behind its back. Like, it's a constant existential struggle, but the amount of resources mobilized is miniscule.
 
ThoseDeafMutes said:
Zalenka was played by a Czech, at least.

The SGC being one branch of the military of one country was always weird. The whole stargate program was like Earth with a hand tied behind its back. Like, it's a constant existential struggle, but the amount of resources mobilized is miniscule.
Click to expand...
Well, and technically you can say that MacKay is Canadian so he's "international" too. And whatshisname the Scottish doctor. But it's not really much of a stretch.

Of course, the problem is the fact that the whole scale of the conflict doesn't really hold up to the scrutiny of having only two countries control the Stargate program. Especially when the aliens start coming to Earth.
 
ThoseDeafMutes said:
Zalenka was played by a Czech, at least.

The SGC being one branch of the military of one country was always weird. The whole stargate program was like Earth with a hand tied behind its back. Like, it's a constant existential struggle, but the amount of resources mobilized is miniscule.
Click to expand...

Well I think at first it definitely was a small, experimental, top secret thing. With possibly no returns and unanticipated consequences. And if you don't want word of aliens, and this whole instantaneous interstellar travel thing getting out, you'd limit personnel.

And then they funneled crap tons of money into
the Prometheus et al.
. So, you know. And I'm sure there's tons of offscreen stuff we don't ever see. I don't think they ever really say how many SG teams there actually are. Some might be larger than others. SG-1 is probably on the low end of that, being an agile recon/first-strike sort of dealio.
 
By the end of the series,
the full scale warship production, each vessel needing dozens or hundreds of crew-members and maintenance workers, active intervention in politics, multiple offworld colony/bases, thousands of miscellaneous SGC personnel, civilian contractors with access to alien tech, Atlantis expedition civilians, politicians from all the countries that were let in on the secret... It must be the worst kept secret on Earth.

I wish they did disclosure at one point for real, but the writers didn't seem to want to break the real-world status quo by having to deal with that. We also didn't see much or any alien tech go into commercial use for similar reasons. There was that one science fair / reunion episode, but...

Regarding the scale of the antagonists and the Earth forces,
SGC teams are good for exploration but not for any kind of large scale combat. We never went beyond squad-level engagements in the series, with all the set-piece battles being the ship-to-ship combat. I would have liked to have seen hints at larger scale stuff.
 
ThoseDeafMutes said:
By the end of the series,
the full scale warship production, each vessel needing dozens or hundreds of crew-members and maintenance workers, active intervention in politics, multiple offworld colony/bases, thousands of miscellaneous SGC personnel, civilian contractors with access to alien tech, Atlantis expedition civilians, politicians from all the countries that were let in on the secret... It must be the worst kept secret on Earth.

I wish they did disclosure at one point for real, but the writers didn't seem to want to break the real-world status quo by having to deal with that. We also didn't see much or any alien tech go into commercial use for similar reasons. There was that one science fair / reunion episode, but...

Regarding the scale of the antagonists and the Earth forces,
SGC teams are good for exploration but not for any kind of large scale combat. We never went beyond squad-level engagements in the series, with all the set-piece battles being the ship-to-ship combat. I would have liked to have seen hints at larger scale stuff.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I would particularly have liked to see
a full disclosure, if they had explored that for half a season or so then had the Ori show up that might have been much more interesting.
 
ThoseDeafMutes said:
By the end of the series,
the full scale warship production, each vessel needing dozens or hundreds of crew-members and maintenance workers, active intervention in politics, multiple offworld colony/bases, thousands of miscellaneous SGC personnel, civilian contractors with access to alien tech, Atlantis expedition civilians, politicians from all the countries that were let in on the secret... It must be the worst kept secret on Earth.


I wish they did disclosure at one point for real, but the writers didn't seem to want to break the real-world status quo by having to deal with that. We also didn't see much or any alien tech go into commercial use for similar reasons. There was that one science fair / reunion episode, but...
Click to expand...

They were going to reveal the Stargate program at the end of S7, but of course, they got renewed and had to keep things going.

At some point, Earth got a secret council, but it still doesn't really make much sense. Like, why would the Chinese let any of this happen?

Then there is also the awkward thing where Sheppard is an Afghan war veteran, which means 9-11 or some other event happened that forced America to go into Afghanistan, so the US was busy fighting their same old terrestrial wars while the entire planet was in danger from alien space bugs.

By Universe, it seems like anyone even related to the Stargate program was allowed to know about it. :p
 
Universe doesn't exist, Firehawk.

Regarding Shepard,

You can pretend that the Afghan/Iraqi wars are covers for huge increases in military spending! Trillions of dollars fighting in the middle east? Pah! We were building Battlecruisers with that dosh.
 
TDM - there's also the Atlantis finale to keep in mind where

they fucking land Atlantis in San Francisco. Yeah it gets cloaked, but still. Though I suppose shit still isn't revealed (at least not apparently) by the time we get to SGU. *shrug*

But like I said - initially, yeah, it makes sense that'd it be smaller. By the time the series ends, it might not necessarily be top secret, but it wouldn't be exactly public information either. Besides, with Wormhole Xtreme on the air, who'd think any of that stuff could possibly be real?

In addition the episode you're thinking of (SGA #516 I think?), there was also SGA #409 which alludes to a greater dispersion of recovered alien technology.
 
ThoseDeafMutes said:
Universe doesn't exist, Firehawk.

Regarding Shepard,

You can pretend that the Afghan/Iraqi wars are covers for huge increases in military spending! Trillions of dollars fighting in the middle east? Pah! We were building Battlecruisers with that dosh.
Click to expand...

lol, poor Eli!

As for Shepard,
the problem is that he gets courtmartialed for disobeying orders and trying to rescue a friend (IIRC). Think about the ethics of sending your guys to war but not letting them use any of the technology that you have found - including teleportation to save a wounded soldier. None of that stuff ever came up though, because the writers didn't actually give much thought to the actual implications of trying to bring in real world politics.
 
firehawk12 said:
None of that stuff ever came up though, because the writers didn't actually give much thought to the actual implications of trying to bring in real world politics.
Click to expand...

And this is why I like Continuum. Really need to get around to making that LTTP thread.

Also - thread now a spoiler minefield for DrForester. Poor guy.
 
CarbonatedFalcon said:
TDM - there's also the Atlantis finale to keep in mind where

they fucking land Atlantis in San Francisco. Yeah it gets cloaked, but still. Though I suppose shit still isn't revealed (at least not apparently) by the time we get to SGU. *shrug*

But like I said - initially, yeah, it makes sense that'd it be smaller. By the time the series ends, it might not necessarily be top secret, but it wouldn't be exactly public information either. Besides, with Wormhole Xtreme on the air, who'd think any of that stuff could possibly be real?

In addition the episode you're thinking of (SGA #516 I think?), there was also SGA #409 which alludes to a greater dispersion of recovered alien technology.
Click to expand...


When I'm talking about it not making much sense, I mean the idea that one planet would be able to become a huge player on the interstellar stage while expending relatively minimal effort. To defeat Germany, half the world spent 7 years in a state of total war. To defeat the interstellar goa'uld empire, we didn't even have to let the public know that there was an enemy to fight! And at the same time we polished off several other enemies too, and established a presence as an INTERGALACTIC SUPERPOWER.
 
CarbonatedFalcon said:
TDM - there's also the Atlantis finale to keep in mind where

they fucking land Atlantis in San Francisco. Yeah it gets cloaked, but still. Though I suppose shit still isn't revealed (at least not apparently) by the time we get to SGU. *shrug*
Click to expand...
What's silly is that
they were going to take Atlantis back to Pegasus in season 6. lol


CarbonatedFalcon said:
Also - thread now a spoiler minefield for DrForester. Poor guy.
Click to expand...
Indeed. :(
 
ThoseDeafMutes said:
When I'm talking about it not making much sense, I mean the idea that one planet would be able to become a huge player on the interstellar stage while expending relatively minimal effort. To defeat Germany, half the world spent 7 years in a state of total war. To defeat the interstellar goa'uld empire, we didn't even have to let the public know that there was an enemy to fight! And at the same time we polished off several other enemies too, and established a presence as an INTERGALACTIC SUPERPOWER.
Click to expand...

There's an easy explanation for that. O'Neill is just that damn good ;)
 
DrForester said:
Enemies
Return of the awesome (but horribly rendered) robo-bugs!

OK. Apophis was on the ship... ship exploded.

Barring him going to the Replican't ship and becoming the weenie King of the Replicant's... he should be dead...


edit: SOMEONE FUCKING ESCAPED......

Apophis escaped...


Fuck you Teal'c
Click to expand...

At the risk of this being a spoiler, I wouldn't worry about it. He's dead for real. Though he does make a few more appearances in later episodes. He is dead though.
 
I Wanna Be The Guy said:
I liked
Jonas. I was pissed when they just got rid of him when Daniel came back. I personally think in Season 9 they should have made Carter the team leader and brought Jonas back to be the fourth member.
Click to expand...

I have to agree,
I also liked Jonas, he was actually a very good character. I hated how shoehorned in Cameron was for the leader role over Carter, his whole story of how he was given leadership of SG1 was just not good at all IMO (and he was a poor replacement for O'Neill). At least they made up for it later when they brought back a certain (goddess of a) woman.
 
I Wanna Be The Guy said:
I liked
Jonas. I was pissed when they just got rid of him when Daniel came back. I personally think in Season 9 they should have made Carter the team leader and brought Jonas back to be the fourth member.
Click to expand...

I thought he was fine, I thought they way they wrote the character was a little bit stupid at times, he was way too naive for someone who grew up in the busted system he did. Or maybe too idealistic. One or the other. But yeah, he was no worse than Daniel really. Still he was no bad arse, that's for sure!

MajorMelchett said:
I have to agree,
I also liked Jonas, he was actually a very good character. I hated how shoehorned in Cameron was for the leader role over Carter, his whole story of how he was given leadership of SG1 was just not good at all IMO (and he was a poor replacement for O'Neill). At least they made up for it later when they brought back a certain (goddess of a) woman.
Click to expand...

Carter should have been off the team almost from the start, she was way too valuable to have out on missions. If they were keeping her on the team, she could have been the team leader, but then where does she find the time to invent magic and shit while doing personnel files?

I thought Cameron was fine, took a few eps to find his feet, but given the story circumstances I thought that was not too bad
 
ThoseDeafMutes said:
I think she was talking about
anubis
.
Click to expand...
Yes!
Dead Man said:
Pfft, she was clearly talking about
Jonas Quinn
Click to expand...
Motherfucker no!
firehawk12 said:
I hate Atlantis. It was when the franchise overextended itself, to the point where they brought in both Amanda Tapping and Robert Picardo to try to save it. :p

This is before they gave up on the whole idea of an international Stargate team after their one Japanese character basically ended up being a geisha-substitute who was subservient to men. lol
Click to expand...
Screw you. McKay + Shephard rocks my socks.
ThoseDeafMutes said:
Zalenka was played by a Czech, at least.

The SGC being one branch of the military of one country was always weird. The whole stargate program was like Earth with a hand tied behind its back. Like, it's a constant existential struggle, but the amount of resources mobilized is miniscule.
Click to expand...

ThoseDeafMutes said:
By the end of the series,
the full scale warship production, each vessel needing dozens or hundreds of crew-members and maintenance workers, active intervention in politics, multiple offworld colony/bases, thousands of miscellaneous SGC personnel, civilian contractors with access to alien tech, Atlantis expedition civilians, politicians from all the countries that were let in on the secret... It must be the worst kept secret on Earth.

I wish they did disclosure at one point for real, but the writers didn't seem to want to break the real-world status quo by having to deal with that. We also didn't see much or any alien tech go into commercial use for similar reasons. There was that one science fair / reunion episode, but...

Regarding the scale of the antagonists and the Earth forces,
SGC teams are good for exploration but not for any kind of large scale combat. We never went beyond squad-level engagements in the series, with all the set-piece battles being the ship-to-ship combat. I would have liked to have seen hints at larger scale stuff.
Click to expand...

Dead Man said:
Yeah, I would particularly have liked to see
a full disclosure, if they had explored that for half a season or so then had the Ori show up that might have been much more interesting.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I think
going full disclosure and dealing the fallout would've been MUCH better than the Ori.
 
In seriousness, I thought SG:U improved dramatically in season 2, so much so that by the end I really wanted a continuation.
Preferably without Chloe, and without any more Lucian Alliance ridiculousness.
 
I always hit a wall with SG-1 around season 6/7, I really need to finish it one day. I think it's the increased amount of throw away episodes and light attempts at being a sci-fi comedy.
 
Mr. Luchador said:
I always hit a wall with SG-1 around season 6/7, I really need to finish it one day. I think it's the increased amount of throw away episodes and light attempts at being a sci-fi comedy.
Click to expand...

6/7 were awesome seasons from memory. If you weren't digging it by then it's clearly not the show for you. That's over 100 episodes in!


Dax01 said:
TDM, the first step in dealing with something bad is acknowledge it exists.

Universe was bad. Get over it, folks.
Click to expand...

I didn't even hate it that much. I stopped watching when it had the season 2 break. Then people say "oh, TDM, it totally got good after that". But I really don't care anymore. It was Stargate in name only anyway.
 
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