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LTTP: The Legacy of Kain Story (SPOILER TAGGED)

G

GuitarAtomik

Member
My history with the franchise: The only game I had ever played in the series was the original Soul Reaver which I had never beat though I enjoyed a lot at the time. When I played it, I had zero knowledge it was technically a sequel so a lot of story beats flew over my head even though I was pretty intrigued by the lore (That intro is probably one of my favorite intros of all time and it's still amazing). For whatever reason, I was completely oblivious to the sequels at the time of their respective releases and only became aware of them years later.

Which brings me to today. I've been playing the Nosgoth game a lot lately (fun btw) and it's managed to get me re-interested in the LoK mythos enough to really get caught up on it. I didn't really feel like replaying them though (Especially since I wanted to start from the beginning) and managed to find an extensively long video series on Youtube chronicling the entire story from Blood One to Defiance. I definitely recommend it for anyone interested in the story, doesn't feel like playing all the games, and has 6 hours to kill (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faO5nlYJr8Y).

So yeah, this shit is amazing. One of the best written and intricately told video game series I've witnessed. The dialogue is amazing and there are so many good quotes. Both Kain and Raziel are pretty amazing characters and it's nice to get see video game heros that are actual characters, and have actual arcs over multiple games. The twists and turns were pretty amazing
(Raziel and his brothers all being Sarafan. Human Raziel being the one who killed Janos. Soul Reaver Raziel being the one who killed all of his human brothers as well as his human self! The circle actually being meant for the previous vampire race. Kain actually being well intentioned instead of the jealous evil dude the beginning of SR makes you think. I could go on and on)
even if the bonkers amount of time travel got a little confusing at times. The whole idea of the Pillars and Guardians. The way the vampires evolve. It's great stuff.

The only misstep, as most peopleanyone will agree, is Blood Omen 2. Having read through Mama Robotnik's awesome thread about the 10 cancelled LoK games lays out why (It's made and written by a team that had nothing to do with the previous games and apparently didn't pay that much attention to the previous lore
Why the fuck is Vorador alive!? This confused the shit out of me while watching it trying to place it on the timeline. It's too bad the explanation was cut out of SR: Defiance but it shouldn't have been a thing they needed to explain in first place. I'm also not sure how I feel about the Hylden especially after reading Mama Robtnik's theory of how SR was originally going to play out
). It is a testament to Amy Hennig that she was able to steer the series right back on course after that lol.

Researching a bit about where the cancelled Dead Sun was going to go story wise, I'm not sure how I feel about the direction it would have gone, but I really hope we do get another single player LoK story/game some time. It's going to take some amazing writers to live up to the previous games though and hearing about some of the plans for the other cancelled sequels, I'm kind of scared of anyone but Hennig even trying. I don't know if continuing Kain's story or going Dead Sun's route which took place far in the future with new characters would be the better route. Until then, I'll be enjoying some Nosgoth.
 
G

Ganondorfo

Junior Member
GuitarAtomik said:
Yeah, lol. I should have also mentioned how fucking amazing the music and art is in almost all the games (Glaring at you again BO2!) . The track over SR's intro is half the reason why it's so damn amazing.
Click to expand...

Mama Robotnik made a thread about this game some year ago and I agree with that. Soul Reaver is maybe the most ambitious game/project of all time. People should have been inspired by the art of Soul Reaver and create more games like that...

Only Darksiders is the only thing that makes me think a little of Soul Reaver/Blood Omen, none other games remind me of that series, so sad.
 
G

GuitarAtomik

Member
Ganondorfo said:
Mama Robotnik made a thread about this game some year ago and I agree with that. Soul Reaver is maybe the most ambitious game/project of all time. People should have been inspired by the art of Soul Reaver and create more games like that...

Only Darksiders is the only thing that makes me think a little of Soul Reaver/Blood Omen, none other games remind me of that series, so sad.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I wish more games had been inspired by it. I guess the sales of the later games didn't help those types of games get made though :/
 
BibiMaghoo

BibiMaghoo

Member
Legacy of Kain is my favorite franchise I think, certainly up their with FF.

But, strangely, I see you make mention of a game called Blood Omen 2. This game was never made, so it must be some knock off you played, maybe a fan game or something.

Probably for the best, it would have been an insult to the franchise, and a garbage game to boot.
 
R

Ralemont

not me
On the Mt Rushmore of video game stories. Defiance is one of those games where so many plot threads are being tied up in such quick succession that it's like rapid-fire mindblowing going on (the icing on the cake was Turel's surprise appearance after being cut from the first SR).
 
G

GuitarAtomik

Member
BibiMaghoo said:
Legacy of Kain is my favorite franchise I think, certainly up their with FF.

But, strangely, I see you make mention of a game called Blood Omen 2. This game was never made, so it must be some knock off you played, maybe a fan game or something.

Probably for the best, it would have been an insult to the franchise, and a garbage game to boot.
Click to expand...
It's funny because it was pretty painful to watch after seeing what came before it. besides the story, I was really confused because it seemed like the graphics had taken a considerable hit from SR2 (Kain's face!). I had to actually go back and check to see if it actually came out after that one.
 
P

playXray

Member
I absolutely loved the original Blood Omen game, and while Soul Reaver was excellent, it was a bit too much of a departure for me to like it quite as much.

I really miss Blood Omen - I think it's probably my number one remake/reboot candidate at the moment. That, plus an HD version of Morrowind.
 
I

ichtyander

Member
I remember thinking back then about halfway through my first playthrough, for whatever reason, that Soul Reaver was a Japanese made game, because I felt the grand, complex time traveling story was only something I've encountered in Final Fantasy or MGS. I'm not really sure how I'd like it nowadays but I've been thinking about doing a playthrough recently. Can't believe it's been about a decade since I've played a Soul Reaver game (Defiance).

Apart from Darksiders, I feel that Dark Souls has some very similar elements, like only being able to save at specific locations and teleport between them once you've unlocked them (pretty much bonfires), somewhat high difficulty, a lock-on based fighting system (although I remember SR had some pretty cool powers like telekinesis and whatnot) and a lot of atmospheric and visual elements.

Man, I remember seeing the twisting environments when changing planes for the first time and it blew my mind. I actually played the first SR again a few years ago and didn't really get into it, but that was before I got into the Souls series so maybe it'll be different this time around.
 
A

Alric

Member
My favorite voiced narrative in any game. The voice acting is just so superb. Sometimes I hear an actor speaking and I think "Man this guy would be great to voice the Elder God" because I know the original voice actor died and I just want them to make another game using someone of similar skill.
 
R

RangerX

Banned
The greatest voice work I've ever heard In a game. I bought Blood Omen 1 when it first game out and It was my favourite game for a few years. It just oozed atmosphere and had an incredibly cohesive world. I had a memory card where all 15 slots were filled by my favourite parts of the game. I adored the rest of them too with Soul reaver probably being my next favourite. The story is truly masterful and I thought it was wrapped up quite well. Still would love another game in Nosgoth though.
 
N

NEO0MJ

Member
I really need to play this series. Do I need to play Blood Omen or is it good enough to just wiki the plot? It unfortunately wasn't included with the Legacy of Kain pack. In fact I don't even have Blood Omen 2.
 
BibiMaghoo

BibiMaghoo

Member
NEO0MJ said:
I really need to play this series. Do I need to play Blood Omen or is it good enough to just wiki the plot? It unfortunately wasn't included with the Legacy of Kain pack. In fact I don't even have Blood Omen 2.
Click to expand...

That is literally, the most important game to play. You don't want BO2. it doesn't exist, you see.
 
R

Ralemont

not me
NEO0MJ said:
I really need to play this series. Do I need to play Blood Omen or is it good enough to just wiki the plot? It unfortunately wasn't included with the Legacy of Kain pack. In fact I don't even have Blood Omen 2.
Click to expand...

I wiki'd the plot after playing Soul Reaver, but if you enjoy isometric games you will enjoy Blood Omen.

Blood Omen 2 isn't worth playing. Just read about the Hylden and you're done.
 
N

NEO0MJ

Member
BibiMaghoo said:
That is literally, the most important game to play. You don't want BO2. it doesn't exist, you see.
Click to expand...

It seems that Blood Omen is the game that doesn't exist, I can't find it on Steam/GOG/GMG. My only choice is buying it from PSN.

Ralemont said:
I wiki'd the plot after playing Soul Reaver, but if you enjoy isometric games you will enjoy Blood Omen.

Blood Omen 2 isn't worth playing. Just read about the Hylden and you're done.
Click to expand...

It's that bad?
 
A

Alric

Member
NEO0MJ said:
I really need to play this series. Do I need to play Blood Omen or is it good enough to just wiki the plot? It unfortunately wasn't included with the Legacy of Kain pack. In fact I don't even have Blood Omen 2.
Click to expand...

Blood Omen 2 is.... well a Paradox. While it might be my least favorite of the series I say still play it. Just play it after Soul Reaver 2 and before Defiance.
 
G

GuitarAtomik

Member
NEO0MJ said:
I really need to play this series. Do I need to play Blood Omen or is it good enough to just wiki the plot? It unfortunately wasn't included with the Legacy of Kain pack. In fact I don't even have Blood Omen 2.
Click to expand...

I recommend watching at least something like the video I linked in the OP (It starts with Blood Omen). You can wiki it (which you should do at the very least), but you'll miss a lot of the visuals, the music, and most importantly the voice acting/dialogue. The plot of all the games gets kind of complicated and calls back to the events of BO a lot, so you'll probably miss a decent amount of stuff by just reading a text summary. Trust me. It's worth it.

As for BO2, if you're going to wiki any of the games, that's the one to do it. It gives you more detail about the Hylden (which you can mostly glean from Defiance anyway) and that's really the only contribution it brings.
 
BibiMaghoo

BibiMaghoo

Member
NEO0MJ said:
It seems that Blood Omen is the game that doesn't exist, I can't find it on Steam/GOG/GMG. My only choice is buying it from PSN.
Click to expand...


Yeah, it's not easy to get a copy. As you say, PSN is the easiest option, you can buy second hand retails from ebay relatively cheaply, but I have no idea how it would run on a modern PC. PS1, 2 or B/c PS3 will play a retail PS1 disc.
 
R

Ralemont

not me
NEO0MJ said:
It's that bad?
Click to expand...

It's just that the story isn't really connected to anything else in the Legacy of Kain plotline besides the Hylden. Most of it focuses around Kain being betrayed by his generals and coming back to kill them all. It's pretty self-contained and, in my opinion, not particularly well-told in itself.

The gameplay probably hasn't aged all that well, either. I certainly didn't think it was very good at the time.
 
G

GuitarAtomik

Member
NEO0MJ said:
It's that bad?
Click to expand...

From Mama Robotnik's thread:

BO2 was a completely different team, and they had a lot of their own ideas about the direction they wanted to go. I had a few friends on that team, so I can only say that I wish we'd worked more closely together and collaborated. But even in the best environments, you'll have people who want to make their own statements and go their own way. There was a lot of people who didn't quite get Soul Reaver at Crystal and Eidos. The higher ups wanted more overtly sexual elements with a simpler story and I think that had a lot of influence on BO2. (Additionally Steve Ross had his own style and that had a heavy influence on BO2.) Marketing guys just wanted an easy, marketable design. (Like Doc Martens on Raziel.. *SHUDDER*) SR was a delicate balance of sensibilities, and it was difficult enough for our team to stay on task, so there was a lot of divergence.
Click to expand...

SR didn't have any influence on BO2. They had creative autonomy. I did raise a few facts when talking to their artists and designers (
Uh.. hey.. Vorador's dead you know.. why do you have him in the beginning of the game?
) But by and large the most we could do was insure consistency with things like the Reaver. I think that the lack of collaboration between teams ultimately hurt us both, and is pretty evident in the final product(s).
Click to expand...
 
A

Alric

Member
It's been a while since I played Blood Omen 2 but I'm pretty sure it did fit into the timeline after events in Soul Reaver 1 and 2. For the reasons I'll spoiler tag below.

The whole point is Kain trying to change fate and create paradoxes by the temporary melding of the 2 Soul Reavers. That is why after the events of Soul Reaver 2 and Raziels intervention in certain events that Vorador is now still alive and Janos is as well but inhabited by another being like we also see at the end of Defiance. Razeils intervention in the past during Kains younger years creates these adjustments in this new timeline.
 
G

GuitarAtomik

Member
Alric said:
It's been a while since I played Blood Omen 2 but I'm pretty sure it did fit into the timeline after events in Soul Reaver 1 and 2. For the reasons I'll spoiler tag below.

The whole point is Kain trying to change fate and create paradoxes by the temporary melding of the 2 Soul Reavers. That is why after the events of Soul Reaver 2 and Raziels intervention in certain events that Vorador is now still alive and Janos is as well but inhabited by another being like we also see at the end of Defiance. Razeils intervention in the past during Kains younger years creates these adjustments in this new timeline.
Click to expand...

No.
Vorador was supposed to be dead during that time. I believe there's even a painting or statue of Moebius holding his head in SR2. According to a dev interview (again, I read from Mama Robotnik's thread), they were going to explain in Defiance that Raziel had managed to reattach his head and revive him the same way he revived Janos by returning his heart. But that part of the game was cut due to time and also because it would have felt a little redundant with him also reviving Janos for answers.
 
I

Iscariot

Member
Ganondorfo said:
Sorry dude this is not 1999 and 2001 anymore, Soul Reaver isn't cool anymore, sorry dude.
Click to expand...

Cooler than you are. Dude.

John-Goodman-Lebowski_l.jpg


This is one of the few series that I bought each game at launch mostly to just find out what happens next. I was really sucked into the story and atmosphere of Nosgoth. Considering how well CD did with the Tomb Raider reboot, I'd love to see them take a crack at this world again.
 
G

Ganondorfo

Junior Member
Iscariot said:
Cooler than you are. Dude.

John-Goodman-Lebowski_l.jpg


This is one of the few series that I bought each game at launch mostly to just find out what happens next. I was really sucked into the story and atmosphere of Nosgoth. Considering how well CD did with the Tomb Raider reboot, I'd love to see them take a crack at this world again.
Click to expand...

I was just kidding, but why get a LTTP thread for Last of Us more than 4 pages in a hour, while Soul Reaver LTTP thread doesnt even get to second page? I know it's sad, maybe because the franchise hasn't been awaken since 2005 with Defiance.
 
I

Iscariot

Member
Ganondorfo said:
I was just kidding, but why get a LTTP thread for Last of Us more than 4 pages in a hour, while Soul Reaver LTTP thread doesnt even get to second page? I know it's sad, maybe because the franchise hasn't been awaken since 2005 with Defiance.
Click to expand...

Oh I was just being playful too.

I kinda feel like SquareEnix could toss the trilogy on a HD collection for xbone/ps4/pc and at least keep the IP somewhat relevant till they get it together...
 
H

Huh?

Neo Member
playXray said:
I absolutely loved the original Blood Omen game, and while Soul Reaver was excellent, it was a bit too much of a departure for me to like it quite as much.

I really miss Blood Omen - I think it's probably my number one remake/reboot candidate at the moment. That, plus an HD version of Morrowind.
Click to expand...

Remake in what way though? The exact same game just with better graphics/sound/load times, or would it be a version without the top down view? I really like the other games besides BO2, but I do agree that the original is the most fully realized of the games.

Ralemont said:
It's just that the story isn't really connected to anything else in the Legacy of Kain plotline besides the Hylden. Most of it focuses around Kain being betrayed by his generals and coming back to kill them all. It's pretty self-contained and, in my opinion, not particularly well-told in itself.

The gameplay probably hasn't aged all that well, either. I certainly didn't think it was very good at the time.
Click to expand...

I will say I did sort of enjoy the almost 19th century London vibe of Meridian, and I actually like the Hylden if they're an addition created by that team, but otherwise, yeah, it's really pretty bad.
 
L

luka

Loves Robotech S1
I remember playing BO2 at some point, but I honestly don't remember a damn thing about the game. It's weird.

BO1>SR>SR2 i recall vividly. I really need to play them again soon. The twist at the end of SR2 absolutely floored me. As much as I think I would have preferred playing the 'complete' version of SR, Hennig really took an awkward sequel hook from a completely fractured and unfinished game and did something incredible with it.

I still have my old copy of Defiance sitting here that I really should finish soon.

Ganondorfo said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNWSDvDqm9g

Everyone should listen to this while reading the analysis of OP.
Click to expand...

That's the part that everyone wants to hear, but I don't think many people have actually heard the full track yet. :)
 
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