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LTTP: The Original Xbox One

I would have had no problem with a 24h or more favorably 1 week check in as I wad planning to go all digital this Gen anyway...

Xbox og, my disc drive failed after I purchase my 360 and dics can get scratched/lost more easily than having something being stored on a hardrive/server/ online (aka 'cloud' lol).

I actually would have preferred it more, because then I could have shared more games with friends/family vs having to be limited to 2 Xbox ones with one being the primary and the second being the one that shares.

It also would have been nice to have the possibility of being able to purchase physical copy of the game and be able to use it to install it and have then a digital copy since online check in would allow it to be so, and then still be able to play the game with said disc if internet was down.

When I peruse the threads for npd sales people are like.. Pshh digital sales aren't factored in.. I think alot of people jumped in digital because of the potential and extra features it allows.. Pause/resume/time saving/patches/digital backup like steam..

I think if MS would have been thinking on there feet after Sony unveiled its price for power/performance and released the Xbox one w/kinect for $400-$420 the power difference may have not mattered as much.... And the whole tv / football thing would have resulted in Phil Spencer becoming head of the division anyway.

Just my honest opinion =D
 
Fuck no. They can stick it up their arse. Microsoft could not articulate the benefits other than "trust us" and other nonsense, and when pressed tried to handwave their way past ensuing shitstorm. A barmy plan from start to finish. The bollocking taken from consumers and press has been well-deserved, and should warn others from similar attempts. I would have never purchased my Xbox One under such a plan.
 
no idea how people are doing this generational all digitally. admittedly i haven't replaced my hdd but i'm not doing all-digital (only major digital release i own is wolfenstein) and my ps4's hdd is already full.

and the prices on digital games are absolutely insane. £55 for a new game? fuck off.

all this just so that you don't have to swap a disc? you all-digital people have bad priorities.
 
Servbot24 said:
The loss of all of my consumer rights is not worth the 10 seconds it takes to change a disc. Plus right now you can still buy digitally anyways if you choose. So no I don't miss the original concept.
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Kaydan said:
Hyperbole much?
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No hyperbole to be found. I don't believe in check-ins and I certainly don't believe in handing over my ability to trade/sell with whoever I like. Go ahead and buy digitally if swapping discs means so much to you.

Dyson Industries said:
Fuck no.
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goddamn

godelsmetric said:
all this just so that you don't have to swap a disc? you all-digital people have bad priorities.
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*kermitnod.gif*
 
Lord Kefka said:
Right now if my internet was down my experience with both PS4 and Xbone is bad. If PSN or Live go down its even worse. The argument is nothing changed because we are all still tethered to the internet with these consoles and honestly without internet i cant even see a reason to purchase either. I am a collector and have lived the collect an entire physical library stage and i am ready to not have to do that anymore. I enjoyed thinking of a digital future because its coming and it might have been delayed this time, but it wont be for the next.
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You are still missing the point. People without internet could not use the console at all. Currently, both consoles can be used without an internet connection. The Xbone requires one for the first setup only. The PS4 does not require it at all.

People without a connection would not have been able to use the console at all. Nevermind quality of experience. It would be a brick in that scenario.
 
godelsmetric said:
no idea how people are doing this generational all digitally. admittedly i haven't replaced my hdd but i'm not doing all-digital (only major digital release i own is wolfenstein) and my ps4's hdd is already full.

and the prices on digital games are absolutely insane. £55 for a new game? fuck off.

all this just so that you don't have to swap a disc? you all-digital people have bad priorities.
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There are sales on digital games (not everyone buys things day 1), deals on points cards, US pricing isn't as bad as in other countries, and it's also weird to complain about "priorities" when we're talking about luxury gaming consoles, and a board where collectors routinely buy expensive editions of new games, and expensive rare versions of older physical games
because buying physical games make you a true gamer, unlike those corporate whores and their DRM-ridden digital games!

And of course, if I could buy hybrid physical/digital games, that would have been even cheaper for me, since I could just buy a disc if it's on sale at a regular retailer, and still get the same conveniences I prefer, like I've done with plenty of Steam games on disc. Tradeoffs and different consumer preferences, how do they work?
 
godelsmetric said:
no idea how people are doing this generational all digitally. admittedly i haven't replaced my hdd but i'm not doing all-digital (only major digital release i own is wolfenstein) and my ps4's hdd is already full.
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Disc and digital games need the same space on the hard drive IIRC

It's not hard, I don't need 20 games to be within my reach at all times so I only have installed what I'm currently playing.
 
Seriously, how often do folks swap discs? I tend to just leave one in there until I'm done playing, which can take days or weeks. The smaller games that I just play whenever are digital-only anyway.
 
BibiMaghoo said:
You are still missing the point. People without internet could not use the console at all. Currently, both consoles can be used without an internet connection. The Xbone requires one for the first setup only. The PS4 does not require it at all.

People without a connection would not have been able to use the console at all. Nevermind quality of experience. It would be a brick in that scenario.
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I absolutely love video games and i just cant even think of how i would enjoy PS4/Xbone without an internet connection.

I could have swore i also read there was a plan for a lockdown mode for the original xbox one. It would shut down all game sharing and Xbox Live features on your account and system, but it would allow you to play the games you currently had installed on the system and only those games until you could have your console hooked up to the internet again.
 
I still don't believe those family sharing features were on the table. it was only after they 180'd that they started to talk about how amazing it would have been. at that point they could have said anything because it simply wasn't happening anymore.
 
Let's compare the cons and pro's of the original X1:

CONS:

- Always online
- Kinect always activated (big brother etc.)
- Used games could only be sold at "selected retailers"
- No cheaper Kinectless bundle
- Region Locked
- No self-publishing for indies
- No headset included
- Focus on TV TV TV

PRO'S:

- No need for disc swapping. For a while that is, since you can only install a few games on the 500GB HDD
- You could access your game library at your friends house. But it's faster to drive to your house to get the discs, since it takes hours to download 30-50GB for each game.
- Focus on digital games. But because MS only allow it's own store, digital prices are ridiculous high and stay high for a long time. Also, digital games can not be sold.
- Family sharing. Now that's the only real PRO imo. But we still don't know if there were any restrictions. I mean, publishers were complaining about game sharing on ps3 last generation, so Sony decided to limit it to 2 accounts instead of 5. Now MS wanted to share it with 10 accounts?

CONCLUSION

There are a lot more CONS than PRO's, and for every PRO there's a "but". So I'm glad they did a bunch of U-turns.
 
Oh yea... I kinda wish the thing had to have a camera trained on me to work. Yeah it can track me and a few other people in the room and just pipe that right back to a server constantly. And I'd get not a single fucking benefit. Yeah. Sounds good.

The minority of you who are still into this shit are disgusting and the day you become the majority were all in deep shit.
 
Ge0force said:
Let's compare the cons and pro's of the original X1:

CONS:

- Always online
- Kinect always activated (big brother etc.)
- Used games could only be sold at "selected retailers"
- No cheaper Kinectless bundle
- Region Locked
- No self-publishing for indies
- No headset included
- Focus on TV TV TV

PRO'S:

- No need for disc swapping. For a while that is, since you can only install a few games on the 500GB HDD
- You could access your game library at your friends house. But it's faster to drive to your house to get the discs, since it takes hours to download 30-50GB for each game.
- Focus on digital games. But because MS only allow it's own store, digital prices are ridiculous high and stay high for a long time. Also, digital games can not be sold.
- Family sharing. Now that's the only real PRO imo. But we still don't know if there were any restrictions. I mean, publishers were complaining about game sharing on ps3 last generation, so Sony decided to limit it to 2 accounts instead of 5. Now MS wanted to share it with 10 accounts?

CONCLUSION

There are a lot more CONS than PRO's, and for every PRO there's a "but". So I'm glad they did a bunch of U-turns.
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Those are all things you can do on the current systems, it wasn't specific to the old vision.

Family share was the only real pro but I'm 100% sure it was bullshit. Publishers would never, ever allow something like that if it worked like how Microsoft vaguely said it would work.
 
DarthWalden said:
The positives are that I can buy a physical copy and get the advantages of that (a disc on the shelf, ability to trade, almost always cheaper) and the benefits of digital (no disc swapping, can load your games on any console with a disc).
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See, but this is you buying in to Microsoft's rhetoric.

There is absolutely no reason Microsoft couldn't still do this after the 180. Just don't make it mandatory.

IE: You check in daily, you don't need the disc. You don't, you do need the disc.

The fact that they eliminated this is, from my perspective, another aspect of Microsoft's toddler attitude around the time of the 180 "Fine! We'll take our toys and go home. You suck because you just don't get it".
 
The original plan for the Xbox one was absolutely atrocious. I seriously can't believe even a single person would want that piece of shit they were trying to force down everyones throats. There was not a single redeeming factor to their original idea and it's the one and only time I'll ever say I'm glad to see something in gaming die. The Xbox one that we got was still hindered by their lack of foresight into why people buy gaming consoles. NOBODY would ever want a stupid all in one machine that spreads itself so thin that it sucks at all the things it supposedly does. I would rather use dedicated devices that are built with one purpose in mind that actually deliver on that one purpose. It's very clear how gimped the Xbox One that we received actually is when you sit down with it. Multiplatform games regularly underperform on the Xbox one due to how much effort/usage they allocated to their stupid "TV TV TV" O.S.
The ability to watch T.V. through an HDMI port is absolutely useless as I simply change inputs to do that rather than adding to my power bill by leaving an Xbox One running 24/7. I never use Kinect as it is the biggest/worst gaming related gimmick i've ever seen, If i want to play mobile games like fruit ninja I'll do it on a phone. An all digital future is ridiculous and will never happen when there are still many people that prefer to pay 60$ and own a copy of a game, not a copy of a license to play a game that can be revoked at any time for any reason. All this is coming from someone that bought an Xbox One on Day One only because they changed all their original B.S. they were trying to pull on consumers, and I purchased it knowing it was gimped hardware, but decided to get it when they realized noone was gonna take their shit and changed directions to avoid massive losses. I don't regret my purchase at all, I just feel its important to point out the flaws in things you like and not blindly support them hiding issues to make your point look better.
 
KatamariOnTheRocks said:
I just feel its important to point out the flaws in things you like and not blindly support them hiding issues to make your point look better.
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Well, I appreciate your direct opinion and honesty. I wouldn't go as far as say I am blindly supporting Microsoft in the original idea of the Xbox One though, as the features that were announced I saw great person benefit with. Such as the ability to buy a physical game, but keep it digitally on the console without the disc. That is convenience in a nutshell.

I like what they have done with the HDMI passthrough. I have my TV hooked up through the Xbox, and it's fun to see what is trending on TV, as well as a Twitter feed associated with that show. I do not have my Xbox One on 24/7 because of this feature, as I turn off the Xbox One and my TV when not in use.

Kinect.. well, yeah I am fan of it. I use the voice commands to turn it on all the time, and the ability to change the channel and adjust volume options does have great benefits. I could be sitting at my computer, and say "Xbox mute" if I want to hear a YouTube video or something. I know the PS4 camera also has voice commands, so I am willing to buy another similar device to doubly enjoy the benefits ;) And, you can't go wrong with "Xbox record that" after something pretty cool
 
Its better to actually own a product you buy then rely on an internet service. What if XBL shuts down one day and you went all digital? If you had all the discs and the system they'd still work offline at least.

Swapping discs is a small price to pay for freedom. Plus the file size of these games are ridiculous. You'd probably have to get a bigger hdd a few times over the life of the console.
 
Birgitte2004 said:
See, but this is you buying in to Microsoft's rhetoric.

There is absolutely no reason Microsoft couldn't still do this after the 180. Just don't make it mandatory.

IE: You check in daily, you don't need the disc. You don't, you do need the disc.

The fact that they eliminated this is, from my perspective, another aspect of Microsoft's toddler attitude around the time of the 180 "Fine! We'll take our toys and go home. You suck because you just don't get it".
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I mean maybe they could. I would certainly love that but I don't think it's quite that simple and I think it would cause a lot more confusion to what was already a fairly Confusing process for a lot of people to grasp.
 
Birgitte2004 said:
See, but this is you buying in to Microsoft's rhetoric.

There is absolutely no reason Microsoft couldn't still do this after the 180. Just don't make it mandatory.

IE: You check in daily, you don't need the disc. You don't, you do need the disc.

The fact that they eliminated this is, from my perspective, another aspect of Microsoft's toddler attitude around the time of the 180 "Fine! We'll take our toys and go home. You suck because you just don't get it".
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In theory, I agree with you that it would have been nice to have both options. However, I can see your idea being easily abused unless there was a way to "mark" the discs so that they would remotely deactivate a digital license in case it was sold/traded/lent away.
 
Would have been amazing. Physical pricing, digital convenience. I have Internet and it works 99% of the time. For the times when Live goes down, I have other stuff I can do and other consoles I can play.

I'm still pissed people on the internet complained about their console needing Internet.
 
shanafan said:
Well, I appreciate your direct opinion and honesty. I wouldn't go as far as say I am blindly supporting Microsoft in the original idea of the Xbox One though, as the features that were announced I saw great person benefit with. Such as the ability to buy a physical game, but keep it digitally on the console without the disc. That is convenience in a nutshell.

I like what they have done with the HDMI passthrough. I have my TV hooked up through the Xbox, and it's fun to see what is trending on TV, as well as a Twitter feed associated with that show. I do not have my Xbox One on 24/7 because of this feature, as I turn off the Xbox One and my TV when not in use.

Kinect.. well, yeah I am fan of it. I use the voice commands to turn it on all the time, and the ability to change the channel and adjust volume options does have great benefits. I could be sitting at my computer, and say "Xbox mute" if I want to hear a YouTube video or something. I know the PS4 camera also has voice commands, so I am willing to buy another similar device to doubly enjoy the benefits ;) And, you can't go wrong with "Xbox record that" after something pretty cool
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No problem, and I apologize if I come across as hostile, my passion on the subject is due to the fact that I very strongly disagree with all of their original points and if they had launched the system the way they wanted to it would have set a precedent for companies to treat their customers like garbage by dictating what they can and cannot do with the product as if the creators of the product have the final say, but they do not as anyone selling a product knows that the creators are in debt to their consumers as they would not exist without the sales the consumers give to them. I see alot of corporate apologists around that kiss the asses of these companies when they get the left over scraps of an idea originally concieved to screw the consumer out of as much money as possible. That was the direction that MS initially wanted to go with the Xbox One, a locked down eco-system with absolutely all the power in MS hands with the consumer having to accept what they got and then shut up. I live in an area that the 24 hour check-in DRM would have prevented me from playing at all as I do not have a stable enough connection and moving to a new location solely to play video games is out of the question. Another issue with their initial all digital plan is that I already have to wait hours and hours to download mandatory updates on my XB1, I could never imagine having to download entire games at this speed, and also have no issues swapping games as I have done so my entire live with various game consoles. I also don't literally leave my TV/system on all day, but often have either the system or TV going and will pay full attention when one is running so i don't have a use for using both at the same time. I also don't believe that MS original plan to buy a disc game and tie the license would even be possible from a manufacturing standpoint as they would either need to burn a different disc for every single person or include a code thats tied to your purchase which also seems incredibly difficult to verify that you did buy the game, and the entire idea seems so far fetched compared to the rest of their original plan that I don't believe what we would have received would have been what we think it would have nor would it have remotely balanced out all the other anti-consumer measure they took. Again, I apologize if i come across as hostile and none of my points are personal attacks against you, I just want to make a stand against what I see as anti-consumer practices.
 
Collingwood said:
Would have been amazing. Physical pricing, digital convenience. I have Internet and it works 99% of the time. For the times when Live goes down, I have other stuff I can do and other consoles I can play.

I'm still pissed people on the internet complained about their console needing Internet.
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Yeah, fuck those people without internet.
 
xxracerxx said:
Yeah, fuck those people without internet.
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Why fuck them? They can just not buy one right? Is there some law that requires them to buy an Xbox One?

I mean, is it a big fuck them that they can't buy the other thousands of devices that require an Internet connection?
 
Collingwood said:
Why fuck them? They can just not buy one right? Is there some law that requires them to buy an Xbox One?

I mean, is it a big fuck them that they can't buy the other thousands of devices that require an Internet connection?
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Sony and Nintendo managed to launch systems without the original anti-consumer DRM that MS wanted so I see no reason that MS would have been FORCED to include their stupid always on-drm when everyone knows that people that want to circumvent DRM do so, leaving the legitimate paying customers to deal with that shit. So no, there was absolutely no logical reason for them to include it.
 
The one thing I wish they hadn't changed was digital sharing. There's no reason it couldn't have stayed. It feels like a casualty of a temper tantrum being thrown by an executive.
 
Pathfinder said:
Steam seems to be doing pretty damn well without it.
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wait for it...

"steam is nothing like the xbox one! they can't be compared! Even though they share certain obvious qualities like lack of game resale, and DRM that works on physical discs and needs an online connection to authorize, they should never be compared at all because they differ in other ways! How dare you!"

KatamariOnTheRocks said:
Sony and Nintendo managed to launch systems without the original anti-consumer DRM that MS wanted so I see no reason that MS would have been FORCED to include their stupid always on-drm when everyone knows that people that want to circumvent DRM do so, leaving the legitimate paying customers to deal with that shit. So no, there was absolutely no logical reason for them to include it.
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As of May 2013, Sony and Nintendo wanted you to insert a disc to prove you own a game. MS wanted you to connect online to prove you own a game, without needing a disc, while also still allowing that disc to be resold in a limited fashion (unlike other computer or digital software that only has a one-time authorization and is incapable of being resold). At the time, the "easiest" way to do that was probably the 24hr requirement, though there's potentially other ways that it maybe could've been done (longer checkins, for example). They likely made a gamble that since so many of the interesting features involved in the new systems require internet access anyway, the 24hr check wouldn't be seen as big of a deal, and people would care more about not having to put discs in all the time. Obviously, they gambled wrong. Risky, sure, but I don't necessarily see "illogical".
 
KatamariOnTheRocks said:
Sony and Nintendo managed to launch systems without the original anti-consumer DRM that MS wanted so I see no reason that MS would have been FORCED to include their stupid always on-drm when everyone knows that people that want to circumvent DRM do so, leaving the legitimate paying customers to deal with that shit. So no, there was absolutely no logical reason for them to include it.
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But Nintendo and Sony weren't offering me the chance to pay cheap physical pricing but still have the convenience of a digital copy that follows me wherever I go. Sooooo....
 
leeh said:
I don't get this. They always said trade in was completely possible.
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To companies they approved - so mom and pop stores would likely be cut out and you would have fewer options. Thus, BOY HOWDY GAMESTOP GUARANTEEING $30 FOR A $60 GAME SEEMS GREAT!
 
Collingwood said:
But Nintendo and Sony weren't offering me the chance to pay cheap physical pricing but still have the convenience of a digital copy that follows me wherever I go. Sooooo....
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Neither was Microsoft, nothing that they claimed was ever explained in depth nor was it confirmed. Everything we heard about it came out after they were babies throwing a tantrum because we didn't fall for their bullshit. "Oh so you don't like that we took away all choice and power from the consumer? Well it looks like you guys don't get our awesome game pricing plan, sucks for you guys :P" It sounds like a baby trying to guilt you after they lost an argument by embellishing a possible half-truth that we can never confirm so they can claim it would have been the greatest thing ever, doesn't mean it actually would have. And EVEN if they did it how they claimed it would work, which it never would have it still wouldn't have been a worthwhile trade off.
 
Lord Kefka said:
In the end nothing has changed both my PS4 and Xbone are useless to me if my internet goes down or if PSN or Xbox Live go down. All microsoft did was turn your discs into "access keys" again so in fact all we did was take a step back to please the gaming community....Bravo
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Shouldn't these corporations be doing everything they can to please the gaming community? You know, the people that buy their stuff?

Lord Kefka said:
No I expected that the games that are not being used by me in my library would be readily available by that group of 10 friends. So if 5 out of 10 of my friends owned Halo MCC that would be 5 copies available. The original owner of the license would then have seniority and could boot a player playing his copy.
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How does that even remotely sound like a good idea? So, I'm playing Halo MCC that my friend owns, I've been playing for 10, 20, 30 minutes *BAM* I'm kicked off because he got on.
 
HUELEN10 said:
I am glad with the One how it ended up being instead. I don't mind putting a disc in, what I care about is noise.

The fact that all the disc is used for is a verification check is fine by me. Wish you could do full disc installs on Wii U and PS4 the way you can on the One and 360.
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Every game on ps4, disk or digital gets installed completely to the hard drive.
 
shanafan said:
I would like to see if Microsoft or Sony has any numbers on how many of their consoles have never connected to the Internet. Not sure how that is possible, but in my opinion, it would be less than 10%.
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10% out of 15 million (we don't have exact X1 numbers) is still a lot and it would have been 1.5 million likely going to the PS4. Also, people weren't really pissed because they don't have the Internet. But because it sometimes goes down and, much more important, because their servers sometimes go down. Christmas 2014 was a shitshow as it was, but at least you could play most of your games with some functionality. The initial vision would have meant that you couldn't play. Period.

I think we're likely heading towards that vision anyway. Media will go digital, online checks will be the go-to DRM (Netflix, PSNow are already "always online"). But the infrastructure must support the vision, not the other way around.
 
auunp3.jpg
 
Lord Kefka said:
I absolutely love video games and i just cant even think of how i would enjoy PS4/Xbone without an internet connection.

I could have swore i also read there was a plan for a lockdown mode for the original xbox one. It would shut down all game sharing and Xbox Live features on your account and system, but it would allow you to play the games you currently had installed on the system and only those games until you could have your console hooked up to the internet again.
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Those two things are contradictory. Games do not need an internet connection to be enjoyed, only online components or online only games. Both systems offer many, many games - the vast majority in fact - that can be enjoyed very much with no connection, as little is lost, if anything, from the core experience of the game. Yes the consoles are better online, but if you didn't have internet you would presumably still be enjoying games.

Except with this situation you wouldn't be, because some dude decided you needed to clock in every day. You would be either playing on another console, or you would be playing nothing. That is not good. At all. I'm going to go with a maybe safe call and say you were not born with internet, and thus obtained it at some point. Some people that like games have yet to do so. This is the problem, and it is not a fake one.

I'm not sure about that other part, it may have been in the scramble to appease people after the fact, it certainly wasn't part of the pitch.
 
KatamariOnTheRocks said:
Neither was Microsoft, nothing that they claimed was ever explained in depth nor was it confirmed.
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Of course that's how it would've worked, physical discs were still going to be sold in retail shops. Do you think Best Buy would suddenly no longer have sales or something? MS was going to singlehandedly prevent every games retailer in existence from clearing out stock or having a sale? It seems like that's a claim that requires evidence to support, not Collingwood's.

In addition, MS wasn't proposing some brand new thing, because that's the way retail disc games using Steam DRM have been sold for the past 10 years. As expected, sometimes retailers clear out stock and run sales, and I could still buy those games cheap on disc (regardless of what Steam was selling it for in their store), while still being able to associate it with my Steam account.
 
Even today I still don't understand why people drop $60 on digital games. With no resale value whatsoever, they're already worth less than their physical counterpart. Not to mention having to download vs install from a disc.

Micromanaging a limited hard drive is much easier knowing that when I delete something, the disc install when I want it back is a fraction of the time a download would be.

If MS wanted to show their system as something akin to Steam, they needed to aggressively push a new pricing strategy that matched.
 
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