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[Jazzem]

Well, both are Don Bluth films, both star mice and both are utterly amazing Especially Nimh.

For starters, I absolutely love the animation in these two films. The style is incredibly well detailed, to the point that some folk complain it's a bit over-animated. I can see where they're coming from but for me that's part of the charm. The movements and gestures of the characters are so energetic and fluid, and the backgrounds are phenomenal in their detail. it's quintessential 2D animation at its finest.

Of course this wouldn't mean too much without a good story and cast of characters, but both films are excellent in that regard. Both stories are incredibly heartfelt and touching, handled with just the right amount of sentimentality. The leads are very likable, Mrs Brisby for her modest yet determined personality and Fievel for being just so damn cute. Only thing I would say is I'm not entirely convinced about the comic relief characters, but they're not too distracting and they have their charm.

More than anything though, these movies have some very dark themes considering their U ratings. The animal lab scenes in Nimh or the subtle way American Tail challenges the reality of the American dream in particular stick out, it's pretty bold film making on the studio's part, and it's hard not to admire them for that reason.

I think I'll track down The Land Before Time next. It's a shame I didn't grow up with these movies (Though I can't help but feel I have seen LBT, I vaguely remember having fond feelings for it), I imagine they're wonderful films to see growing up. Great stuff nonetheless

 

[Charmicarmicat]

I don't want to sound like "that guy" but i much prefer the book of Nimh. I do enjoy the film though, and American Tail is great, haven't seent it for years and now i want to watch it

 

[Cianalas]

I find myself appreciating both of them a lot more as an adult than I did when I saw them as a kid, and I can't say that about a lot of animation. Classics, both of them.

 

[Robot Without A Cause]

I grew up with Bluth's movies and I love them to this day. The art and animation in NIMH, American Tail, and Land Before Time is just fantastic.

 

[Space Runaway]

Haven't seen An American Tail since it was new so I barely remember any of it.

I've seen The Secret of Nimh quite recently. Still gorgeous to look at and they went out of their way to make parts darker than in the book. Always had a bit of an unsettling vibe which I love.

I dunno what happened to Don Bluth. He had a good half decade or so of quality, then after All Dogs Go to Heaven (Which was only ok) he made nothing but complete shit (Save your breathe Titan A.E. fans, you can't possibly convince me that was good).

 

[ckohler]

Even though Don Bluth didn't have a hand in it, the sequel to American Tail (Fivel Goes West) is worth checking out. The animation in it is very impressive, maybe even more impressive than the original and I consider myself a big fan of Bluth.

 

[Dali]

I don't want to sound like "that guy" but i much prefer the book of Nimh. I do enjoy the film though, and American Tail is great, haven't seent it for years and now i want to watch it

I read the sequel to the first book and thought it was alright. The movie was just so fucking awesome though it's hard for me to say the book was better. Though I guess since it was the sequel it's not an even comparison.

Haven't seen An American Tail since it was new so I barely remember any of it.

Same here. I remember the "Somewhere out there" because my mom used to sing it all the time, but that's about it. I remember it being really sad for some reason too.

I've seen The Secret of Nimh quite recently. Still gorgeous to look at and they went out of their way to make parts darker than in the book. Always had a bit of an unsettling vibe which I love.

Yes! The focking owl's din! The first appearance of focking Brutus! The flashback to when they became sentient! So awesome.

I dunno what happened to Don Bluth. He had a good half decade or so of quality, then after All Dogs Go to Heaven (Which was only ok) he made nothing but complete shit (Save your breathe Titan A.E. fans, you can't possibly convince me that was good).

As much as I love Bluth I've got to agree with you. Although A.E. wasn't horrible, it certainly wasn't vintage Bluth.

 

[Jazzem]

Even though Don Bluth didn't have a hand in it, the sequel to American Tail (Fivel Goes West) is worth checking out. The animation in it is very impressive, maybe even more impressive than the original and I consider myself a big fan of Bluth.

I have to admit, I am somewhat put off by the style of it. It seems to be a drastic departure from the first film in terms of tone and story, and I get the impression that's not for the better. Might check it out if I get the chance though

 

[GhaleonEB]

The Secret of NIHM is still my favorite animated movie. The requisite comic relief character aside (the crow), it's almost entirely deadly serious, and weaves in a lot of interesting themes. And the theme music gets me every time.

Yes! The focking owl's din! The first appearance of focking Brutus! The flashback to when they became sentient! So awesome.

Yeah. And the use of color - how everything goes blood red when Brutus slams his spear down the first time. Scared the hell out of me as a kid, but as an adult I'm still mesmerized by how skillfully the mood shifts. The flight heading to the owl's tree through the dusk sky is so gorgeous - great use of saturated colors.

I'm also fond of the boat trip under the mill. The entire movie has vibe of death and decay - the son on the verge of death with pneumonia, the crumbling mill, the fucking owl. And of course, Nicodemus.

 

[Tashi]

Mrs Frisby and the Rats of NIMH was one of my favorite books growing up. I remember watching the movie in school and being disappointed. I loved the book though.

 

[goldlion054]

pshh, Fievel Goes West is better

EDIT: I know Bluth didn't have a hand in it, but it is better

 

[ScientificNinja]

Don Bluth's animations have aged incredibly well - I recently watched NIMH for the first time in 20 years and I was absolutely floored by the quality of the storytelling and the animation. Titan AE is also pretty good, but a tad hammy for my liking; Matt Damon is a schmuck.

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

I loved the Secret of NIMH as a child. I saw it again a few years ago and still loved it. None of the other Don Bluth films ever did anything for me, but NIMH is probably my favorite animated feature ever.

Edit: Bring on the blu-ray!

 

[Tyrone Slothrop]

none hold a candle to this masterpiece

 

[Hellsing321]

The Land Before Time and The Secret of Himh are still my favorite animated movies ever. I still tear up at the credits for Land Before Time.

 

[devilhawk]

No love for Land Before Time 43?

 

[madara]

Three great animations indeed. Shucks your making me all teary eyed for a 2D animation comeback, darn it.

 

[HowardRoark]

Loved both movies, especially NIMH.

 

[Beezy]

I loved the book Mrs. Frisby and the Rats of NIMH when I was younger. Now I wanna read it again thanks to this thread. It should still be somewhere in my house.

 

[Takeda Kenshi]

American Tail rocks, I had a Fievel backpack. Hell yeah.

 

[jenov4]

Was the first movie I've ever watched in the theatre. I remember feeling real sad for that Fievel. :lol

 

[SapientWolf]

pshh, Fievel Goes West is better

EDIT: I know Bluth didn't have a hand in it, but it is better

I didn't know that movie was a sequel.

 

[Madrin]

I was late to the party too when I saw The Secret of NIMH a couple of years ago, so I'm not just speaking from nostalgia when I say it's one of my favorite animated movies ever. We need more serious 2D movies that aren't overly safe, dumbed-down kiddie feed.

 

[Nabs]

i loved reading Nimh in 4th grade... never seen the movie though. I gotta find that.

Fievel Goes West is amazing

 

[RSLAEV]

Do yourself a favor and just stop watching Bluth films made after The Land before Time. I wrote a paper for a class where I analyzed every Don Bluth Cartoon before Titan A.E. and it almost broke me. I don't know how one man can make 3 masterpieces and then just royally suck after that :/ It's like the stories he started writing were aimed at some wierd foreign audience.

 

[jman2050]

Do yourself a favor and just stop watching Bluth films made after The Land before Time. I wrote a paper for a class where I analyzed every Don Bluth Cartoon before Titan A.E. and it almost broke me. I don't know how one man can make 3 masterpieces and then just royally suck after that :/ It's like the stories he started writing were aimed at some wierd foreign audience.

He went from doing his own (very awesome) thing to trying to rip off Disney endlessly. Whether this was his doing or executive meddling I'm not sure of.

LBT is my favorite of his films, simply because it managed to take cute talking dinosaurs and turn it into something truly terrifying. And I mean that in the best possible way. Littlefoot's mom's death still gets me to this day

 

[AniHawk]

Land Before Time is my favorite Bluth film. It's his shortest film (65 minutes), but they replace singing kids (American Tail) with a beautiful score from James Horner.

And I mean that in the best possible way. Littlefoot's mom's death still gets me to this day

And it's pretty violent, even though you only see the silhouette.

Wish Spielberg hadn't pussied out and made Bluth cut the minute-long Sharp Tooth chase.

 

[jman2050]

Land Before Time is my favorite Bluth film. It's his shortest film (65 minutes), but they replace singing kids (American Tail) with a beautiful score from James Horner.

It took a trip to TVTropes to finally realize why I loved "If we hold on together" so much. It wasn't just some sappy song added to the movie just for the hell of it, its main melody was the leitmotif for the entire film and the song was its logical and triumphant conclusion. The impact was that much greater as a result. Well, that and Diana Ross really nailed the song, but that should be a foregone conclusion

Damn now I want to watch it again. Too bad I only had the VHS tape and that's long gone by now

 

[mr jones]

i loved reading Nimh in 4th grade... never seen the movie though. I gotta find that.

Fievel Goes West is amazing

It is absolutely worth seeing. The animation stands up to even today's scrutiny.

 

[akachan ningen]

I used to have a fievel plush toy that I got when I was like 6-8. I wonder if it would have been worth anything today.

 

[Link]

I remember seeing The Secret of NIMH for the first time as a kid and being absolutely shocked when Justin utters "dammit" during the kitchen scene. As a young boy watching a G-rated film, I was totally blindsided by that.

 

[wi@tt]

Never knew these where the same artist, in retrospect I can see that now.

American Tail is one of my personal favorites from growing up, but as I get older I can really see and feel the tones in Nimh and have grown to love it more.

 

[Mr Nash]

Secret of Nimh was good, but I never got into all of the other films with that art style. =\

 

[Captain Blood]

American Tail was my SHOW when I was a little kid. Every kid has that movie they watch over and over and over without ever getting tired of it and American Tail was mine. I actually bought it on DVD recently lol.

 

[mr jones]

So help me out here:

I understand why the rats are self-aware and intelligent. However, what's up with Nicodemus and the magic powers? And what about the Great Owl? Was he part of NIMH? Is this explained in the book at all?

 

[RevenantKioku]

American Tail was my SHOW when I was a little kid. Every kid has that movie they watch over and over and over without ever getting tired of it and American Tail was mine. I actually bought it on DVD recently lol.

Heh, yeah. I can't remember what mine was but doing that made it impossible for me to watch a movie more than once anymore. Find it extremely depressing to do so for some reason.

 

[Nabs]

It is absolutely worth seeing. The animation stands up to even today's scrutiny.

I found it on Hulu but it was recently taken down

 

[mr jones]

I found it on Hulu but it was recently taken down! Bah!

Eh, I'm sure you'll find bits and pieces of the movie if you do a little tubin' on the net.

After reading the Wiki entry, The movie goes down a couple notches for me. Not because of the quality of the flick (its superb), but because of unnecessary elements that they added, like the magic, which is never explained.

 

[AniHawk]

So help me out here:

I understand why the rats are self-aware and intelligent. However, what's up with Nicodemus and the magic powers? And what about the Great Owl? Was he part of NIMH? Is this explained in the book at all?

I forgot what the connection was with the owl, but he knew of Jonathan Brisby, and that's why he agrees to help her. IIRC, there was no magic in the book. I last read the book in the sixth grade, and that was about 11 years ago. It's better than the movie too.

 

[AndersTheSwede]

Two of my most favorite stories/films in my youth.

Still impressive to this day.

 

[GhaleonEB]

I forgot what the connection was with the owl, but he knew of Jonathan Brisby, and that's why he agrees to help her. IIRC, there was no magic in the book. I last read the book in the sixth grade, and that was about 11 years ago. It's better than the movie too.

One of the things I love about the movie is they don't explain the magic - it's just magic. I find it more awe-inspiring when it's not explained in some way.

Never read the book, though I've heard nothing but good stuff about it. Might go back and read it.

 

[AniHawk]

One of the things I love about the movie is they don't explain the magic - it's just magic. I find it more awe-inspiring when it's not explained in some way.

Never read the book, though I've heard nothing but good stuff about it. Might go back and read it.

Two things about Secret of NIMH bother me now:

1. It's not as good as the book. And that's okay, because it doesn't have to be, but I saw the movie first and then read the book, and going back to the movie, there are a lot of things that make you cringe (like the Dom DeLuise character). Quite a bit of the story was changed. The book goes into good detail about NIMH and the workings of the escape and why Jonathan Brisby is so respected. You get very little of that in the movie.

2. The magic isn't necessary because the rats had learned a great deal about science. It's just eye candy.

I think it's Bluth's second-best film. I saw his first three independent films within the last five years or so, and a lot of it stands up (the owl is wonderfully creepy, and it's so dark and violent for a movie made with kids in mind). It's also different from almost everything else he'd wind up doing, and chose a story that focused on a parent as a main character. I think only Finding Nemo and, to an extent, Monster's Inc. have done that as well. It just helps connect to a wider audience, and that's great.

An American Tail is my least favorite of the first three, because it really feels disjointed. There's a lot of fade-out edits and songs thrown in there (and actually sung by kids who shouldn't sing) that kinda break up the pacing. And again you have a Dom DeLuise comic relief character, who's a little more tolerable since this is an original story and not taking liberties with someone else's. It's a beautiful film though, and the characters are all pretty likable. Also, that ending where Fievel and his father finally meet again is perfect.

I'm repeating myself here, but I think what makes Land Before Time so strong, despite its short runtime, is that it cuts out all the annoying parts from his first two films. The comic relief comes from all characters to a varying degree, the actors weren't forced to sing (thank god), and the cuts come at appropriate times and help keep the pacing going. Whispering Winds is one of my favorite piece of music from any of Bluth's films, and it makes the entire film, and the ending so strong. I also love the antagonist. Sharp Tooth is the stuff of nightmares.

 

[Count Dookkake]

If you want to be depressed, look up the story of the little girl from All Dogs Go to Heaven.

 

[way more]

pshh, Fievel Goes West is better

EDIT: I know Bluth didn't have a hand in it, but it is better

Indubitably. It's funny, interesting and has actual good songs. Here is a beautiful retooling of "Hoe Down."

The Girl You Left Behind "I'm in pain!!!" :lol :lol

All the songs in American Tail reminded me of the song by Charlie's mother in the original Charlie and the Chocolate Factory. Shudder. What were they thinking with those old family movies? Who wants to see that?

none hold a candle to this masterpiece

I actually liked the book version of the sequel of NIMH much more than the original. The way they had to battle the construction and the inclusion of the bastard, degenerate, and city wise son Rasco made the book as tense and dramatic as the original animated movie.

I'm referring to this book.

I don't know who the fuck Timmy is but if his story is half as cool as Rasco's then that should be a good movie.

 

[GhaleonEB]

2. The magic isn't necessary because the rats had learned a great deal about science. It's just eye candy.

Hmm. Gotta disagree there. It's an essential part of the story.

Here's an interview with Don Bluth, specifically the parts about why the story is different from the book (which again, I haven't read - but the thread has inspired me to).

http://www.adammcdaniel.com/DonBluth/Don_Bluth_Interview3.htm

On the magic:

AM: I wondered about the element of magic that you introduced in the storyline; it's obvious Nicodemus possessed some magical, "wizardry" qualities (his being able to levitate his cane and diary, the illuminated writing, and the hologram), but the addition of the amulet, and how it's used it the end by Mrs. Brisby, were significant departures from the rather ambiguous, downbeat finale of the book. I was curious to learn how the concept of the amulet was introduced... It's a mysterious thing that is never really explained, and hoped you could shed some light on it. My friend and I really talked a lot about the subject!!! We know the amulet once belonged to Jonathan, and that he had entrusted it to Nicodemus' safekeeping until it could be passed on to his widow...but where did it come from? How did Jonathan acquire it? How did it get its magical abilities? (I like to think that Jonathan's spirit and the amulet were somehow connected, and it's power was Jonathan's gift to his wife from beyond the grave... Just food for thought.)

DBS: Wow! Glad that the film inspired your curiousity.

With regard to the amulet, it is a metaphor for believing in one's self. Remember the quote, "Courage of the heart is very rare, the stone has a power when it's there." It helps symbolize her courage and the power of the stone to help rescue her children...a miracle, if you will. God stuff. Granted, it isn't in the original novel, but we felt that it was much more powerful. Nicodemus says it was Jonathan's, but really just to get her to accept it. We didn't really think it was necessary to explain it further. Seems like we would eat up too much screen time to tell the history of the amulet, when the story was about an innocent widow mouse, who, thru her journey would find out that she has the courage to rescue her own family.

Regarding magic, we really believe that animation calls for some magic, to give it a special "fantastic" quality. The stone or amulet is just a method of letting the audience know that Mrs. Brisby has found 'Courage of the Heart'. Magic? Maybe. Spiritual? Yes.

Dunno. It's always been one of my favorite parts of the movie.

 

[AniHawk]

Hmm. Gotta disagree there. It's an essential part of the story.

Here's an interview with Don Bluth, specifically the parts about why the story is different from the book (which again, I haven't read - but the thread has inspired me to).

http://www.adammcdaniel.com/DonBluth/Don_Bluth_Interview3.htm

On the magic:


Dunno. It's always been one of my favorite parts of the movie.

I had completely forgot the amulet was a "God did it" moment in the film. I guess it just makes the film a little too unbelievable. Genetic experiments resulting in super intelligent creatures isn't that too "out there" for sci-fi, so the movie had already created a decent reality for itself. Then we have magic because Don Bluth wanted a cop-out ending and thinks it looks pretty.

 

[maharg]

The main, early Bluth (namely the three mentioned in here over and over again) animated films are absolutely on the top of my animated films list. The only Disney movie that even holds a candle to them to me is The Lion King.

If you want to be depressed, look up the story of the little girl from All Dogs Go to Heaven.

Oh my god, that is so sad. Poor girl. I'm not sure I'll ever look at Ducky the same way again. :/

I can't believe they were buried in an unmarked grave and only got headstones in 2004. Wow.

 

[way more]

On the magic:


Dunno. It's always been one of my favorite parts of the movie.

The magic always pissed me off. Oddly enough, so did the swords and I normally love swords. But what next? A dragon? We've already got orbs and talismans and the oracle owl.

Because of all that additional God stuff the most frightening part in the movie is when Mrs. Brisby is in the house. Suddenly it was normal and real.

 

[speedpop]

I always loved Don Bluth's animations. An American Tail will always be a classic and much loved movie in my life.

 

[MightyKAC]

Loved Secret of NIHM as a child and was reminded of how good Don Bluths animation was when I looked at these two gems that are also worth mention here.....

And....

As good as the re-mastering of the originals was (and it REALLY was done well) what made it for me was the commentary tracks by Bluth himself and company talking about the creative process that went into them. Truly awesome.

Really worth it if you own a BD player and are a Bluth fan.