Support NeoGAF

[LCGeek]

Viva's graphics were AAA for what it was, and that voxel effect on everything looks spectacular (Rare used the same effect going back to SFA, but I haven't seen any other developer do it since Novalogic)

Rare is easily top ten in the overall gaming industry for 3d graphics n64 to date the easily always are on the top of their game. I find it fucking sad SFA has better graphics technically and even artistically then 95% of the shit on wii and it was launch title that got ported from the N64, show you just how much devs suck with nintendo systems and learning them.

I miss rare to be honest I don't think nintendo should've sold them. I will agree they weren't pulling in money then again nintendo at the n64 hand a up their ass so much we ended up with shit like SFA. I really liked their stuff like blast corp, ge/pd, conker, and jfg but the rest of the line up gc/n64 area was shit and way too much like the better shit they produced at the time. Nintendo lost money on this company because they stopped letting rare be themselves to me.

 

[master15]

SFA came out at the beginning of its gen and remained arguably the best looking, or more precisely the most effects-laden game until the next-gen systems. Kameo similarly has yet to be surpassed in the totality of its gee-whiz! technical achievement. My memories of the N64 gen are hazier, but I don't remember anything topping Conker/PD.

It was one game particulary in the cinematics which used depth of field really nicely and as you said was chock full of other effects and pulled them off without much of a hitch so early in the Gamecube's lifespan that really wasn't matched outside perhaps (Resident Evil 4 or Rogue Leader).

Perfect Dark at it's release was visually pretty impressive also. I mean using real light-sourcing and being able to individually shoot out every single light in the game making the surroundings darker, is something most current games don't even have! However I think their best achivement was Jet Force Gemini on the N64 which had so many different, vibrant environments, and all this pulled off without the use of the expansion pack.

 

[Meesh]

Imo, outside of DKC, Goldeneye, Jet Force Gemini, and Battle Toads, there isn't much to really brag about.

But you know, I'd kill for a new Battle Toads...

 

[Nuclear Muffin]

Simple, most of Rare's talent had left the company after finishing PD, BT and CBFD so Nintendo sold their corpse and Microsoft snapped it up without even thinking about it!

 

[stilgar]

No, not because they 'started to suck'.

They did, though.

 

[Xapati]

The "Rare suxxors" argument doesn't cut it anymore now that they've released Viva Piniata. But you Ninthings can still cling to it if you like.

Nintendo sold Rare because the deal was great and they had already decided they were going after the casual market.

 

[Lobster]

The "Rare suxxors" argument doesn't cut it anymore now that they've released Viva Piniata. But you Ninthings can still cling to it if you like.

Nintendo sold Rare because the deal was great and they had already decided they were going after the casual market.

Does not compute..

Nintendo fans loved RARE so I don't know where your coming from :lol

 

[Jamesfrom818]

I think the real question is why did MS buy Nintendo's 49% if they already had a majority of the shares.

 

[Lobster]

I think the real question is why did MS buy Nintendo's 49% if they already had a majority of the shares.

The real question is why does RARE continue to develop for the DS?

Nintendo hit the jackpot..got a alot of cash and they'll still develop for your handheld.

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

The real question is why does RARE continue to develop for the DS?

Nintendo hit the jackpot..got a alot of cash and they'll still develop for your handheld.

Because it isn't the PSP and the games that Rare makes are well suited for the DS

 

[M3wThr33]

The "Rare suxxors" argument doesn't cut it anymore now that they've released Viva Piniata. But you Ninthings can still cling to it if you like.

Nintendo sold Rare because the deal was great and they had already decided they were going after the casual market.

That was the last Stamper bros. game. Now they're gone and there's Box-nose 3 which should come out sometime in 2019.

 

[TAJ]

I think the real question is why did MS buy Nintendo's 49% if they already had a majority of the shares.

"We sold our position back to Rare and then they sold the entire company to Microsoft.".
"We sold our position back to Rare and then they sold the entire company to Microsoft.".
"We sold our position back to Rare and then they sold the entire company to Microsoft.".
"We sold our position back to Rare and then they sold the entire company to Microsoft.".
"We sold our position back to Rare and then they sold the entire company to Microsoft.".
"We sold our position back to Rare and then they sold the entire company to Microsoft.".

Jesus Christ... You 'tards have had five years to let this sink in. Even the Wikipedia article got it wrong. Gaaaaaaaahh!@!#!!

 

[Mohonky]

I have really liked the work Rare has done with Microsoft with the exclusion of PD0

 

[Terrell]

The "Rare suxxors" argument doesn't cut it anymore now that they've released Viva Piniata. But you Ninthings can still cling to it if you like.

Nintendo sold Rare because the deal was great and they had already decided they were going after the casual market.

Ummm... one semi-great game in 7-8 years isn't really what I'd call top-shelf game development.

Nintendo should never have sold them. Rare's games, with Nintendo marketing muscle were constantly selling over a million units per title plus with the exception of Conker (which was a BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD business decision to develop in the first place. There is no audience for a game like that on a Nintendo console to justify its dev and marketing costs)

Had they not sold them they would have had Kameo, Ghoulies, Donkey Kong racing, and possibly one or two others out on Gamecube during its lifespan. Say what you will about those games now, a Gamecube owner would have loved to have had those games on their console during that period so hindsight doesn't cut it.

I think a lot of it had to do with Nintendo's growing dissatisfaction with working with foriegn companies. They dropped deals with most of their foreign partners during the Gamecube era and retreated into themselves when the game industry went completly the other direction. It wasn't just Rare, it was Retro delivering one game out of the initial 4 promised, it was ties being cut with H2O killing them, it was Left Field getting dropped from Excitebike, Silcon Knights probably fucking themselves over on the time taking them to do Eternal Darkness and then botching up MGS, etc. The only foriegn partner that was really dependable on their ticket was Rare and they jettisoned them.

Ummm... if they were pulling out of foreign development, why did they buy a Western studio right after selling Rare? Or publish Geist? Or Battalion Wars? Or Eternal Darkness? Or why did they let Next Level develop a soccer game with their brand-identifying mascots?!

Ummm... no, sorry, let's just identify it for what it is.

 

[Suburban Cowboy]

they were able to sell a declining asset for a huge amount of money, probably more than it was actually worth. Simple business.

 

[Night_Trekker]

I always figured it had something to do with the blandness that was DK64. The quality of their games seems to start slipping from that point on.

 

[master15]

I always figured it had something to do with the blandness that was DK64.

God did I try to like that game...I trudged through a good portion of it but after collecting my 15th million different colour bannana I just had to call it quits. The thing was I barely played any of Rare's other platformers so it wasn't like I was burnt out on the concept, but boy did they absolutely ram the collection aspect down your throat. That and the 'floaty' controls really put me off.

The mine-cart sections were a lot of fun, albiet short.

 

[Xapati]

Does not compute..

Nintendo fans loved RARE so I don't know where your coming from :lol

Yeah, but the love turned to hate once MS got a hold of Rare.

Ummm... one semi-great game in 7-8 years isn't really what I'd call top-shelf game development.

That can be countered with the fact that they've had to jump consoles three times, MS forced them to rush two titles out the door and they had a lot of people who left.
Although I will agree, they have a lot to prove this gen. However they aren't hopeless as some people would have you believe.

 

[Terrell]

Yeah, but the love turned to hate once MS got a hold of Rare.



That can be countered with the fact that they've had to jump consoles three times, MS forced them to rush two titles out the door and they had a lot of people who left.
Although I will agree, they have a lot to prove this gen. However they aren't hopeless as some people would have you believe.

I agree... but with the great possibility that Banjo-Kazooie 3 will be the ultimate in coma-inducing collect-a-thons.... even the future isn't looking so good.

 

[dirtmonkey37]

In the past five or so years, since Microsoft purchased Rare, we received:

1. Viva Pinata
2. PDZ
3. Kameo
4. BK Flying Game (DS)
5. Conker (Xbox)
6. Grabbed by the Ghoulies (Xbox)

I'm sure I'm missing one or two, but for a studio that big and a price that high, Rare has yet to prove its worth to Microsoft. Hopefully with the two titles released this year they will.

Personally, I've been satisfied with their 360 offerings. Viva Pinata is one of my favorite games this generation and PDZ's multiplayer was possibly the best multiplayer I had ever played at the point in time it released, but its single player left much to be desired. Kameo was...pretty. Conker had...a fun single player. Grabbed by the Ghoulies... I hated. I didn't play the Banjo Pilot DS game, so I cannot comment on that.

I own all of their Xbox and Xbox 360 titles but as I said, only one satisfied me completely: Viva Pinata.

 

[Night_Trekker]

God did I try to like that game...I trudged through a good portion of it but after collecting my 15th million different colour bannana I just had to call it quits. The thing was I barely played any of Rare's other platformers so it wasn't like I was burnt out on the concept, but boy did they absolutely ram the collection aspect down your throat. That and the 'floaty' controls really put me off.

The mine-cart sections were a lot of fun, albiet short.

I didn't even get that far. I love DKC. I played and adore Banjo Kazooie (never got around to the sequel for some reason) and I had no reason to think Rare incapable of creating another great 3D platformer. After the negative reviews came in I approached DK64 cautiously, heard the dreadful "rap" at the beginning, played the game for about 20 minutes, got bored and then turned my back on it. Melon guns made of wood and vines? Really, Rare?

DK64 seems to have no heart. It was Rare going through the motions in a boring platformer with a license slapped on. Nothing about the game grabbed me in the short time I gave it. I'm sure it's decent enough, but considering the quality of Rare's output back then, "decent" just wasn't acceptable. They were capable of much better. I don't know what the hell happened.

 

[Lobster]

God did I try to like that game...I trudged through a good portion of it but after collecting my 15th million different colour bannana I just had to call it quits. The thing was I barely played any of Rare's other platformers so it wasn't like I was burnt out on the concept, but boy did they absolutely ram the collection aspect down your throat. That and the 'floaty' controls really put me off.

The mine-cart sections were a lot of fun, albiet short.

I thought the game was great and finished all of it..

I didn't complete it 100% but I beat it.

 

[stilgar]

God did I try to like that game...I trudged through a good portion of it but after collecting my 15th million different colour bannana I just had to call it quits. The thing was I barely played any of Rare's other platformers so it wasn't like I was burnt out on the concept, but boy did they absolutely ram the collection aspect down your throat. That and the 'floaty' controls really put me off.

The mine-cart sections were a lot of fun, albiet short.

God, I felt so cheated by this game. And the multiplayer...blah.

On the contrary, PD64 is whithout any doubt the game on which I kept playing the most . Still remains one of the greatest fps ever made, if not the best.

 

[MCD]

In the past five or so years, since Microsoft purchased Rare, we received:

1. Viva Pinata
2. PDZ
3. Kameo
4. BK Flying Game (DS)
5. Conker (Xbox)
6. Grabbed by the Ghoulies (Xbox)

I'm sure I'm missing one or two, but for a studio that big and a price that high, Rare has yet to prove its worth to Microsoft. Hopefully with the two titles released this year they will.

Personally, I've been satisfied with their 360 offerings. Viva Pinata is one of my favorite games this generation and PDZ's multiplayer was possibly the best multiplayer I had ever played at the point in time it released, but its single player left much to be desired. Kameo was...pretty. Conker had...a fun single player. Grabbed by the Ghoulies... I hated. I didn't play the Banjo Pilot DS game, so I cannot comment on that.

I own all of their Xbox and Xbox 360 titles but as I said, only one satisfied me completely: Viva Pinata.

Banjo Pilot is a GBA game.

while i was searching for some videos for it on youtube, i found some Diddy Kong Racing videos:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=AnjkVH98h5o&feature=related
http://youtube.com/watch?v=81iSOaOB-PY&feature=related

sweet memories.

 

[master15]

On the contrary, PD64 is whithout any doubt the game on which I kept playing the most . Still remains one of the greatest fps ever made, if not the best.

I concur, even though I was slightly disappointed with some of the latter stages in the solo campaign, I would hate to think the amount of hours I've sunk into both Goldeneye and Perfect Dark.

I was replaying both recently and despite sluggish frame-rate issues I still think the mechanics and game holds up really well. Shooting a gun out of your opponents hand and watching them run to pick it up before returning fire or disarming an opponent and getting them surrender still is as fun as ever

Plus Perfect Dark even more so than Goldeneye really shines on the higher difficulty setting (Very much like Halo in legendary). Villa or the early mission in the Datadyne building are just pitch perfect. Not even getting into multiplayer and the ridiculous amount of options and customisation you were allowed.

 

[Brianemone]

PD0 was average
Kameo was fun
Viva was rad

My money is on Banjo being a great great game.

 

[solid2snake]

i was never a Rare fan. fuck them, Nintendo did the right thing.

 

[AdventureRacing]

On the other hand, it was becoming harder to hide the truth after shit like Donkey Kong 64, Conker, and Star Fox Adventures started getting pinched out.

um what? I would argue that conker is quite possibly the best game on the 64. Whilst most would disagree calling it garbage is just stupid.

Later, Grabbed by the Ghoulies, Conker Redux, Kameo, and PDZ (the latter two games I actually bought my 360 for [I WANTED TO BELIEVE]) simply cemented how malodorous Rare's turds had become.

If you were buying a 360 to play rare games it might of paid off to try viva pinata?

 

[Night_Trekker]

um what? I would argue that conker is quite possibly the best game on the 64. Whilst most would disagree calling it garbage is just stupid.

Conker is a great platformer. I don't know about the best game on the N64, but it's definitely up there.

 

[Cheerilee]

When Nintendo first invested in Rare they only purchased about 15% of the company, and probably only paid about $20,000 to do it. After that, whenever the Stampers wanted more money, they would sell another little chunk of the company to Nintendo at their (ever increasing) regular market value. Nintendo eventually ended up owning 49% of the company.

When Rare's stock value hit about $500 million ($250 of which belonging to the Stampers), the Stampers thought Rare's stock had gone about as high as it could go, so they decided to take their winnings and cash out before the price went down. They didn't want to sell 2% of the company to Nintendo for some more chump change, lose control if the company (not even to Nintendo), and then watch their $250 million slip away for some reason they had no control over. So they offered to sell the company outright to Nintendo. Nintendo was not interested in paying approximately $250 million to keep Rare, and asked Rare to find other buyers.

For reference, at about the same time, Yamauchi set up a fund called Fund Q using $200 million of his own money and loaned it to small developers to get them to publish Cube games. Even the loan of this kind of money was enough to even secure Square support on the GameCube. Also, control of Retro was bought out for a mere 1 million dollars, but it's unknown how much money Nintendo spent setting up the studio (Nintendo was footing the bills before and after the buyout).

The Stampers received offers from at least Microsoft and Activision (yeah, the pussies who recently canned Goldeneye XBLA because Iwata didn't like it), and went with Microsoft's offer to buy 100% of the company, including the IP's, for $375 million. The Stampers bought Nintendo's 49% and sorted out/bought all their IP's back from Nintendo for $100 million (on credit), and then sold the whole bundle to Microsoft, making $275 million for themselves.

In a completely unrelated story, one month after selling their stake in the UK developer, Nintendo was fined approximately $100 million by the European Union for NES-era price fixing.

The Stampers took paying jobs for Microsoft and ran Rare for four years before leaving to "pursue other opportunities", but AFAIK no new startup company has been announced.

 

[Shiggy]

There were several reasons, I think.

One was that Joel Hochberg wanted to leave the business and sell is stock. As we haven't heard anything of him since 2002, it seems as if this has happened. It might have been the case that also the Stampers wanted to get rid of their stock and Nintendo didn't want to buy it, as Microsoft AND Activision people (you remember that Xmas card ) were taking a buy-out into consideration. You must remember, Microsoft trademarked the name "It's Mr. Pants" in late 2001!

The next reason was the disorganization of the management. It is apparent that they had problems in this sector. Just take a look at the development time of Kameo, PDZ or StarFox Adventures, all of them saw delays of at least one year. In addition, a large scale of projects were cancelled at that time, including the MMORPG Quest, Sabreman Stampede (aka Donkey Kong Racing) or the futuristic racer Arc Angel. In 2007, finally, the Stampers left.


I still wonder whether the staff was unhappy with Nintendo after StarFox Adventures or what has been the reason for the trimmed game. Whole locations like the Discovery Falls, Diamond Bay or Willow Grove were cut from Dinosaur Planet. Also the "new" ending was cut or never finished. Originally it was planned to release Krystal a little bit earlier and one might even find an audio file from the game in which Falco wants to help Fox in the battle against Scales, which never occured in the final version.


In the end, it seems as if it was a decision which was justified by money, failure of management and the loss of key staff.

 

[master15]

The next reason was the disorganization of the management. It is apparent that they had problems in this sector. Just take a look at the development time of Kameo, PDZ or StarFox Adventures, all of them saw delays of at least one year. In addition, a large scale of projects were cancelled at that time, including the MMORPG Quest, Sabreman Stampede (aka Donkey Kong Racing) or the futuristic racer Arc Angel. In 2007, finally, the Stampers left.


I still wonder whether the staff was unhappy with Nintendo after StarFox Adventures or what has been the reason for the trimmed game. Whole locations like the Discovery Falls, Diamond Bay or Willow Grove were cut from Dinosaur Planet. Also the "new" ending was cut or never finished. Originally it was planned to release Krystal a little bit earlier and one might even find an audio file from the game in which Falco wants to help Fox in the battle against Scales, which never occured in the final version.

Apart from Sabreman Stampede I hadn't heard about any of those other titles in development in particular Arc Angel or the MMORPG, do you have any more information on these titles?

Also I remember your post in the recent SFA thread, are there any media or unreleased footage of those trimmed levels you metioned?

 

[Shiggy]

Apart from Sabreman Stampede I hadn't heard about any of those other titles in development in particular Arc Angel or the MMORPG, do you have any more information on these titles?

Raretopia once had information about it, when the site was still alive.
http://web.archive.org/web/20040620110351/www.raretopia.com/news/2003/10/13.html
http://web.archive.org/web/20030417171331/raretopia.com/news/2002/10/25.html

Also I remember your post in the recent SFA thread, are there any media or unreleased footage of those trimmed levels you metioned?

Sadly no. You only see the Discovery Falls in the old N64 trailer.

 

[master15]

Raretopia once had information about it, when the site was still alive.
http://web.archive.org/web/20040620110351/www.raretopia.com/news/2003/10/13.html
http://web.archive.org/web/20030417171331/raretopia.com/news/2002/10/25.html



Sadly no. You only see the Discovery Falls in the old N64 trailer.

Wow thanks a lot man, I have a huge amount of respect for Duncan Botwood and would have loved to see that project come to fruition.

I think that article really highlighted, structurally what a mess Rare have been in the last 6-7 years. Having 2+ year projects cancelled along with games jumping from platform to platform can't help at all.

 

[Azelover]

The Stampers bought Nintendo's 49% and sorted out/bought all their IP's back from Nintendo for $100 million (on credit), and then sold the whole bundle to Microsoft, making $275 million for themselves.

Ouch! That's a bit of a stab in the back isn't it? How else would they cut Nintendo's returns from the deal so much? Either Nintendo was nice or they didn't know quite what the Stampers were up to, maybe they used the "independence" talk but didn't mention they were gonna sell their company to a competitor.

 

[Jenks]

Nintendo is all about profit selling Rare = profit.
Im glad MS got Rare as i love Kameo and Viva Pintata and lets face it both titles are very unique in the 360s game libary, i think most people dont like them as they must be kiddy as they have colour and dont envolve shooting someone or driving a car.

 

[Shiggy]

Ouch! That's a bit of a stab in the back isn't it? How else would they cut Nintendo's returns from the deal so much? Either Nintendo was nice or they didn't know quite what the Stampers were up to, maybe they used the "independence" talk but didn't mention they were gonna sell their company to a competitor.

It must have been impossible for to not see this

 

[Cheerilee]

Ouch! That's a bit of a stab in the back isn't it? How else would they cut Nintendo's returns from the deal so much?

Well, 49% is worth significantly less than 51%, in that one side has all the control and the other has none. The Stampers could've theoretically just sold their share to MS for $275 million and we'd have the same result, just with MS getting a lower price and Nintendo getting a cold metal shaft up the pooper. Plus the Stampers might have played the "Hey guys, you only paid us $10 million for this stock in the first place. Are you really gonna make us pay $250 million to get it back from you? Come oooonnnn. Be a pal. Cut us a break. $100 million is still ten times what you paid for it" card.

Either Nintendo was nice or they didn't know quite what the Stampers were up to, maybe they used the "independence" talk but didn't mention they were gonna sell their company to a competitor.

That's my guess. I'm sure Nintendo knew all the details of what was going on.

 

[nincompoop]

Did you even read that thread? :lol

People early on pretty much nailed the game. Stunning visuals and great soundtrack but the gameplay in a lot of areas was redundant as hell. People in the first page of the thread already called it.

Did you even read the whole thread? :lol Most of the people on the first page were saying that they weren't really interested in playing the game, the majority of the gameplay impressions came on page 3.
Here are some quotes, since apparently reading comprehension isn't one of your strengths

Well I picked it up and am very impressed with it thus far. It does play a lot like a Zelda game which in my book is not bad. It does have some minor differences, for example the little dinosaur that follows you around which you get to command (dig, stay, heel) brings some new puzzle features to the board. And let's not forget to mention the incredible graphics, I believe I was getting an upgrade for Fox's staff. Standing on top of a light source revealed some incredible effects on the character model... wow.

I beat the first boss yesterday and if it's any indication of the rest of the game, it's going to be great.

As for SFA, I find the game has it's own personality to seperate it from Zelda. Just because it has the same mechanics does not make it Zelda. If you like adventure games like Zelda you'll enjoy this game.

Well I finished it this weekend and I must admit the last boss fight is really well done. Personally I found the game on the easy side, and just to get a certain stigma out of the way I didn't have to collect tons of stuff a la DK64 or Banjo. There are items to collect but usually around 4 of them.

+1

So far it seems pretty boring although its probably the most amazing looking game I've ever seen. Nice bump-mapping on all the vehicles(@ 60fps) , fur-shading, grass effects, heat wave effects, bluring, the most amazing lightsourcing effects I've ever seen, and the water, its reflective, translucent, it distorts everything seen through it and the surface looks bump-mapped. The textures stay very detailed as well, with beautiful colors. I just hope the game gets less boring though, I need more than just pretty graphics to play through a game.

-1

played almost 2 hours last night. the graphics and audio are great. i'm very impressed with the music. the gameplay is what i expected. i like it so far, and i think it has the potential to get better.

think its safe to say this: if you're looking for a good console adventure game, pick this game up. Its not totally brilliant, but it does most things right

+2

after playing this ice moutain speeder thing about 20 times now cause they dont tell me what the fuck to do i just start going down some moutain on a speeder i can say with much assurance this game fucking sucks ass

so glad i signed it out and didnt waste 50 bucks on it

nothing but eyecandy here for me

One person who didn't like the game because he sucked at it (must be a neogaffer)

I got it from Target for $47 (there was a sign that said "Lower than advertised!") and got the Fox bobblehead. Pretty good deal. So far the game seems OK, and will be good for breaks in between Animal Crossing sessions

neutral?

After much waffling, I finally decided to pick it up.

I like it. I'm not all that far (just beat the speeder sequence to rescue Prince Tricky), but the visuals are amazing and the audio is perfect.

"Dino Talk" is a bit annoying, but you don't have to endure it for long, and I give credit to Rare for developing a new language for this game (even if it's just an English variant).

About the fur...I love it. I've, twice already, run Fox back and forth for no better reason than watching his tail, simply because it had fur on it. I must admit I thought it looked sloppy at first, but I was kind of wanting an excuse to not like the game. After finding no such excuse, it became no short of fantastic! It's Fox! And he has fur!

I'm looking forward to spending more time with this when I get home tonight

I think it stands out, if not for anything but the characters. They drip with personallity. Especially Fox.

As far as the gameplay, smooth, easy to handle, and though your objectives might be a bit fuzzy at times, Slippy is always there to give you a gentle push in the right direction.

Nothing new or ground-breaking, but a solid game.

And, yes, OoT is an excellent comparison.

+3

Pretty average game. It's every adventure game cliche ever wrapped into one nice, mediocre package. You've got your "carry this item from here to here," your doors that require a specific type of key, your fire shooting up from the ground that you have to time your way past, etc. It's pretty annoying, and I wish the game had more originality and its own gameplay style. It's Zelda-lite. Plus, you've got your usual Rare collect-a-thon, if you're into that sort of thing. There are so many goddamn things to collect that you'll have to write it down and draw pictures just so you can remember what a certain item is.

Fox is a great lead character though. He's got a "badass" aura about him that every adventure hero should have, and I love it when he rolls his eyes when Slippy or the captain start talking to him about obvious things.

The short Arwing sequences are pretty sweet and only make me wish the Namco game would get finished faster. The graphics are incredible and easily blow away anything on the Xbox, if you're a Nintendo fanboy and want something to use in your stupid fighting.

neutral

OK put some playtime in, got Prince Tricky and got back to Thorntail Hollow.

Despite, the mixed reviews, I was itching to play this game. I guess you have to be a fan of Rare's N64 games. I still think Banjo Kazooie is the best designed 3D platformer out there, and I went through the entirety of DK64 without a FAQ and got all 201% and rather enjoyed it. Oddly enough, I still haven't gotten around to playing Banjo Tooie, and from what I've read, Jet Force Gemini I'll probably not play, even though I have it. Conker was fun too, I look forward to the XBox rev.

So if you didn't care much for those games, I can see why SFA won't float your boat. Personally, it's been awhile since Conker and the Zelda-style adventure genre is somewhat new gound for Rare. So far I like it, Tricky is pretty annoying and the world isn't as vast as Zelda (yet), but it's good fun. I'm trying to stay away from calling Slippy cuz he makes the game way too easy.

The only complain really is the drop in framerate in Thorntail Hollow...how cool would it have been if they were able to lock it at 60 fps?

+4

I have to say I\'m impressed with how they handled Fox not having his blaster. I was under the impression they either forgot Fox has a blaster or Slippy said \"You don\'t need it\" or something, it fits much better that General Pepper wouldn\'t let him bring it and he\'s pissed about it, so he goes and finds a weapon right away. I also like the presentation and flying levels a lot, it definately feels like a StarFox themed game much more than I was expecting, and not just Zelda with Starfox pasted in. Bittersweet, considering I don\'t think Rare\'s games will be the same level of quality anymore. Now they have deadlines and no Miyamoto to help them.

+5

Just thought I'd dig this thread up.

Who's still playing it?
Who's beaten it?
Who agrees it has some of the best graphics ever created?
Who agrees this is the Gamecube's best soundtrack?

I thought this would be my "game of the year", but it's just a bit too shallow to grab that personal honor. I'm 55% done, and enjoying every minute of it though. Easily the most beautiful game I've ever played. Blinx and Suikoden III have stolen some time from it, but thruth is, I just don't want to finish it too quickly.

I'm really going to miss Rare developed Nintendo games, but I look foward to seeing how they man-handle the monstrous Xbox hardware. Kameo looks sweet.

+6

Still playing it.
I've not beaten it.
The best graphics? I'll have to think more on this.
Best GC soundtrack? I believe so.

Still lovin' it? Oh yeah.

+7

I've beaten it. It's a good game, but it's far from GotY, and I don;t even think it's top 10 material.

+8

I totally dug Star Fox Adventures. I played through it in a week/week and a half, and really enjoyed it. There were never any really frustrating parts that tend to bog down games like this, and that raised it pretty high in my list of top games this year.

I thought the music for the game was very well done, although a bit subdued in some of the areas. Graphically, (as it's been said) it's one of the best looking games available on the GC.

My only real gripe was the very last part. It felt like it was just kinda tacked on.

+9

I finished this game 2 weeks ago, and I thought I'd dig this thread up. I enjoyed the game overall- the music and graphics were fantastic and the shooter sequences were a lot of fun. The ground stuff was pretty tedious though (although I loved the missions in Dragon Rock). I liked the end sequence too. Sure, it might have been tacked-on, but it was probably the best part of the entire game for me.

As for SFA being the best-looking and best-sounding GC game- that was probably true when you guys wrote it, but Prime beats it in both categories.

So, anyone stil playing this?

+10

So thats 10 people who liked the game versus one who didn't like it and a few who thought it was average.

 

[Matt]

Well, 49% is worth significantly less than 51%, in that one side has all the control and the other has none. The Stampers could've theoretically just sold their share to MS for $275 million and we'd have the same result, just with MS getting a lower price and Nintendo getting a cold metal shaft up the pooper. Plus the Stampers might have played the "Hey guys, you only paid us $10 million for this stock in the first place. Are you really gonna make us pay $250 million to get it back from you? Come oooonnnn. Be a pal. Cut us a break. $100 million is still ten times what you paid for it" card.

That's my guess. I'm sure Nintendo knew all the details of what was going on.

Your narrative seems pretty close to the truth Ruby, except that Nintendo never owned 49% of Rare. They just owned 37.8%, while the Stampers owned 52%, and Joel Hochberg owned 10.2%.

 

[tombur]

Oh shit, I didn't know RARE made Battletoads :lol

 

[Neomoto]

All I know is, their latest game doesn't exactly scream AAA and I have to say their new design of Banjo was just fucking horrible.

 

[master15]

Here are some quotes, since apparently reading comprehension isn't one of your strengths

Perhaps you should check your own eye-sight, pal.

Pretty average game. It's every adventure game cliche ever wrapped into one nice, mediocre package. You've got your "carry this item from here to here," your doors that require a specific type of key, your fire shooting up from the ground that you have to time your way past, etc. It's pretty annoying, and I wish the game had more originality and its own gameplay style. It's Zelda-lite. Plus, you've got your usual Rare collect-a-thon, if you're into that sort of thing. There are so many goddamn things to collect that you'll have to write it down and draw pictures just so you can remember what a certain item is.

Fox is a great lead character though. He's got a "badass" aura about him that every adventure hero should have, and I love it when he rolls his eyes when Slippy or the captain start talking to him about obvious things.

The short Arwing sequences are pretty sweet and only make me wish the Namco game would get finished faster. The graphics are incredible and easily blow away anything on the Xbox, if you're a Nintendo fanboy and want something to use in your stupid fighting.

neutral

Thanks for proving my point. Yeah really neutral impressions :lol As I said the majority of people even in that thread seemed to echo the general consensus of the game being gorgeous but structurally and in terms of gameplay an absolute mess.

And how in god's name can you say the last boss was well done? Hey let's toss aside General Scales the antagonist we've been building up and showing you for 95% of the game and toss him aside without much of a mention and introduce Andross?! Yup that didn't feel tacked on at all....

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

Kameo and especially Viva were both fantastic. Rare is incredibly fucking hit and miss, though, but in all fairness, they always have been.

FUCKERS STILL OWE ME MY 1990 XMAS PRESENT BACK, SPIDER-MAN GB WAS TOTAL BALLS-ASS-SUCK

 

[Mgoblue201]

I find them to be very ambivalent myself. I always held the opinion that they have trouble with finding focus in more open game design. Goldeneye, Perfect Dark, and JFG were some of their better games. Even Banjo Kazooie didn't get too out of control. But Banjo Tooie and DKR bored me completely. Even though I enjoyed SFA and DK64, even those games tended to resort to cliches and simple fetch quests. They tend to get lost in huge worlds and have no idea how to refine that level design into a tighter, more focused package with more interesting scenarios. I really like them when they focus on more straightforward levels.

I also find that a lot of people don't like SFA no matter what board I visit. In fact, I think opinions of the game have gotten more negative as time goes on. I find that with a lot of divisive games, the opposite is true. People let their own opinions weigh heavily on initial experiences, and it is only with time that those opinions begin to loosen. But at least in my experience, that is not true with SFA. I liked it, but then again I tend to enjoy things despite recognizable shortcomings.

 

[Shiggy]

And how in god's name can you say the last boss was well done? Hey let's toss aside General Scales the antagonist we've been building up and showing you for 95% of the game and toss him aside without much of a mention and introduce Andross?! Yup that didn't feel tacked on at all....

It either was a way of saying FU to Nintendo or they just didn't have time to finish the fight.

Read this:
http://krystalarchive.dwightdesign.com/articles/variationsinstarfoxadventures/

Krystal has several speaking parts in the Krazoa Palace that imply that she was released earlier and worked alongside Fox for some time. Also, the original reason for collecting Krazoa Spirits was apparently not to fix the planet, but simply to save Krystal. In one modified cutscene, Fox refuses to leave Sauria until he rescues Krystal, implying that only the Spellstones were originally needed to fix Sauria. Andross appears to have been an afterthought as he is hardly ever mentioned in the source code, this implies that the final enemy was General Scales or perhaps even the Krazoa.

More evidence:
http://kcat.strangesoft.net/unknown_convo.ogg



More on this subject here:
http://forums.starfox-online.net/index.php?topic=790.msg33417#msg33417

It is also interesting to see that the logos were not animated like in other Rare games, even though such an animation was finished. (it was made by Feargal Plant)

 

[George K.]

Hello GAF.

I recall one report that stated an outright sale wasn't Nintendo's preferred option. Supposedly they wanted to increase their stake in Rare (enough to push them over the 50% threshold, but not making them a fully owned subsidary)

This is true.

When Nintendo first invested in Rare they only purchased about 15% of the company, and probably only paid about $20,000 to do it. After that, whenever the Stampers wanted more money, they would sell another little chunk of the company to Nintendo at their (ever increasing) regular market value. Nintendo eventually ended up owning 49% of the company.

When Rare's stock value hit about $500 million ($250 of which belonging to the Stampers), the Stampers thought Rare's stock had gone about as high as it could go, so they decided to take their winnings and cash out before the price went down. They didn't want to sell 2% of the company to Nintendo for some more chump change, lose control if the company (not even to Nintendo), and then watch their $250 million slip away for some reason they had no control over. So they offered to sell the company outright to Nintendo. Nintendo was not interested in paying approximately $250 million to keep Rare, and asked Rare to find other buyers.

For reference, at about the same time, Yamauchi set up a fund called Fund Q using $200 million of his own money and loaned it to small developers to get them to publish Cube games. Even the loan of this kind of money was enough to even secure Square support on the GameCube. Also, control of Retro was bought out for a mere 1 million dollars, but it's unknown how much money Nintendo spent setting up the studio (Nintendo was footing the bills before and after the buyout).

The Stampers received offers from at least Microsoft and Activision (yeah, the pussies who recently canned Goldeneye XBLA because Iwata didn't like it), and went with Microsoft's offer to buy 100% of the company, including the IP's, for $375 million. The Stampers bought Nintendo's 49% and sorted out/bought all their IP's back from Nintendo for $100 million (on credit), and then sold the whole bundle to Microsoft, making $275 million for themselves.

In a completely unrelated story, one month after selling their stake in the UK developer, Nintendo was fined approximately $100 million by the European Union for NES-era price fixing.

The Stampers took paying jobs for Microsoft and ran Rare for four years before leaving to "pursue other opportunities", but AFAIK no new startup company has been announced.

This is even more true. Very impressive post - nice work!

The key leads of the old SNES and 64 days are still there.

Are you saying this because some people from their FPS team left? Because every other team is pretty much the same, and all the lead developers are still there. This misconception is really annoying.

Also true - Betteridge, Botwood, Mayles, Machacek, Seavor etc etc are all still here.

Thier stuff was derivative at best and didn't really sell well. Nintendo don't like that, especially the last part.

"Roll up, roll up! Come and witness history re-write itself..."

So Banjo-Kazooie 3 could be the best looking game of it's console generation.

Fingers crossed!

I agree... but with the great possibility that Banjo-Kazooie 3 will be the ultimate in coma-inducing collect-a-thons.... even the future isn't looking so good.

We've not even started talking or showing off Banjo 3 properly yet, before you start jumping to conclusions. Times have moved on since the N64 era and that will be reflected in Banjo 3's gameplay.

Should be fun revisiting this thread when Banjo 3 is released. The original mastermind behind 1 and 2 is behind 3. This game cannot fail
Crows to be served in due course

I share your enthusiasm and you're right - having Banjo's original creator head-up the new B-K game does make a big difference, especially in terms of our confidence in what we've set out to achieve.

 

[womp]

To put it simply...They were smart enough to see a sinking ship.

Rare is/was easily one of the most overrated companies in the industry.

That said, I love Jetpack Refuelled on XBLA and R.C. Pro Am.

 

[nincompoop]

Perhaps you should check your own eye-sight, pal.





Thanks for proving my point. Yeah really neutral impressions :lol

So saying a game is average and takes its cues from other games in the genre is the same thing as saying its a terrible and broken game? :lol

As I said the majority of people even in that thread seemed to echo the general consensus of the game being gorgeous but structurally and in terms of gameplay an absolute mess.

There wasn't a single person in the thread who said that the gameplay or the structure was a mess. Maybe you should go back to preschool so they can teach you how to read :lol

And how in god's name can you say the last boss was well done? Hey let's toss aside General Scales the antagonist we've been building up and showing you for 95% of the game and toss him aside without much of a mention and introduce Andross?! Yup that didn't feel tacked on at all....

Maybe because it was a fun throwback to the previous Starfox games? Who cares if it didn't fit in with the rest of the story? I didn't really pay that much attention to the story when I played the game anyway.

 

[Suburban Cowboy]

aw man, developers always ruin a good trolling thread =(